Judge Blocks Parts Of Arizona Immigration Law

reply to post by dragonridr


***Light bulb comes on over head****
Bingo!

That's why the feds don't patrol the border itself, only a few miles in. That way the illegals are not charged with that federal statute, because they are not in the process of entering.

They're already here!

But another thought:

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Shouldn't that clause take care of the problem? Maybe too tough to prove that they "eluded" ICE officers? (Even though they're found in 110 degree heat in the middle of the desert)

[edit on 29-7-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

I have a problem with the government saying, that they are trying to enforce the law. Also, with the number of border patrol agents we have. I find it strange, we can come up with billions of dollars to fund an overseas war effort, but we can`t find the money to hire enough border agents to really do a good job of sealing up the border, and to do a nation wide crack down on the illegals that are here.

With the number of people out of work at this time, why not hire them to do these jobs? I`m all for taking some of this war fund money, and putting it towards the effort of sealing our border, and doing a nation wide crack down on the illegals.

How about that, oh great government of ours? You bitch and moan that the states can`t do this, well ok then, take some of that war money and get your dead back sides busy then.

Sorry, I am getting a little pissed at this foot dragging and excuse making our government does in these cases. So there is one idea to help the government do the job that they were put in office to do, anyone one else have some ideas?

[edit on 29-7-2010 by FiatLux]

I think its hilarious to see the folks try to justify why you should not be able to even ask these folks for ID or ANY other info.

I mean if Im walking my dog at the park and a creep tried to grab a kid in the bathroom at this same park and happened to be 6ft tall, white with brown hair...I would fully expect them to ask me just enough to figure out if Im the guy or not. I did nothing wrong and I would be upset at first, but once I knew what the story was behind this, I would have no problem with it and heck I would help look for the guy.

Last I checked, Im sure they get the report DAILY, group of suspected mexican fence jumpers have been seen in the area, that for me is enough for them to question anyone they need. The locals would know this and be prepared, and not long the sheriff would know alot of the locals and not even need to ask next time they get stopped.

Yes its the Fed that needs to fix this asap, but the illegals have to share this blame, just because you walk by a BMW with the door wide open and a wallet sitting there, doesnt mean its not illegal to take it just because nobody did anything about this. Its illegal plain and simple, follow the law or pay the price.

The local Hispanics need to chip in as well if they are fed up with being harassed, step up and tell these illegals to go home and stop making things hard for them, dont help them as your aiding a abetting a criminal and should be sent away as well. We all can do our part.

The only way this can be stopped for good is to take ALL and I do mean ALL freebies away, an undocumented visitor should not be able to Go to school, get a job, buy a car, house, rent, no foodstamps, no assistance of any kind whatsoever and they will leave on their own. If you get caught here illegally 1 time you lose any right to come here legally for the rest of your life.

We all understand they want to come here to have a better life, so do it the right way and I will not foot the bill anymore for these that dont and go about it the wrong way.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Wiz4769]

Federal and State government ALREADY have all the fire, man, and legal power they could ever need to secure our borders and greatly lessen illegal aliens currently in the country.

Why should we let the CREATED PROBLEM of illegal immigration scare us into accepting further encroachments upon our LIBERTY?

papers, papers please... Papiere, Bitte!

F-that, I carry no papers and I was born in the US. My family is not cattle, I am not a SHEEP, we've long since outlawed slavery, and Hitler is dead.

I SHOULD be able to walk from Maine to California and back again by way of Arizona without proving anything to anyone, so long as I commit no crime; I don't care what I look like, what I talk like, whose car I am in the passenger seat of, or where you "think" I'm from.

I don't need to carry SLAVE TAGS, you're not getting anything more than my "commonly called" name from my lips, and you CANNOT search me, my home, or my vehicle without a warrant.

We needn't forget there was a time of FREEDOM in the US when most Americans were BORN AT HOME. There was a time when most Americans didn't have ID.

FREE,

Sri Oracle

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings


I`ll tell you of one way they elude the law. They take ID from one of their own relatives who is legal, and use it to cover their own butt.

How do I know? My daughter works with one in the construction business. He told her that he is here to work and support his kids. You see, he had rented a room at my daughters house, and he also dated her for a while. Well, for one, he works on a cash only basis. Second, the company they work for got a job to do down south at a government facility. When doing a job such as this, there is a lot of paper work involved, that means everyone gets paid by check, and not cash. This is where it fell apart for him. He told my daughter the whole story about his ID belonging to one of his relatives, and he was scared about being caught and maybe being deported. Well, my daughter did some checking of her own, and found that yes, it was not his ID, but not only that, he was not paying a dime of support to his kids. He also was drinking much of his pay away, which really put me over the top with this issue.

You see, he had dated my daughter for some time now. This i don`t have a problem with, but, now that the cat is out of the bag, I am very pissed. For one, by doing this with the ID, he puts my daughter in the middle of things, also my grandson. He also had been living off of her money for a long time during this, until this came up. He was sneaking money from her purse, and buying beer with it. He would go through a case of beer in two days. Where was his money going? Well, it wasn`t going to his own kids we do know. He was driving her car, living under her roof, eating her food, and was not putting a dime into any of it.

There is more to this, but to save bandwidth, i`ll leave it at that. She has already thrown his keister out, and she told him to stay the hell away from her and her family. My daughter just found out, that the IRS, and ICE are now looking for him, as she had a couple of agents stopped by to talk to her. He did come back a couple of times to try and salve his way back in, but my daughter told him she didn`t want any part of it, and did not want to be put in this position.

This is why, when I read of people who stick up for the illegal immigrants , it sets me off. My daughter has been through enough crap with other guys, let alone a guy who now has the IRS and ICE looking for him.

When someone will knowingly lie and weasel their way into someones life, just for the free ride, I have one big problem with it, but to also be here illegally, that really makes my day.

So for those who want to stick up for them, have at it. Make it even more fun, move one or two of them in with you and see how it works out. Support them, give them money and roof and food. Don`t just talk the talk, really do it and see how it works out in the end. If these people are in the right, as so many say they are, then there should be no problem with you doing this.................right? Have fun.

I am finding this whole process very interesting. It is like a big chess game. This was just the first of a few very public moves. I am not sure which side the judge lies on quite yet.

This is they way I see it playing out... The feds are supposed to be the ones protecting the borders right? If they were to just insist that the feds do their job, then it would all be handled quietly with a big no like has been done for years. This was written up in a way that brought serious attention. The judge didnt say no never. The judge blocked it for now until more on this matter is decided. The feds are wanting to sue AZ for this right? To sum it up quickly they are going to MAKE the feds SAY that this is their responsibility and how they are going to deal with it or not. AND they are going to make them do it in the spotlight with the nation watching carefully. At that point if they-the feds- decided to continue to not handle the situation, the state of AZ can sue the feds and win. Either way, AZ got a check mate with this.

reply to post by daskakik


I have a house just north of Mexico's southern border.

I did not state they shoot ALL the illegals crossing, just that they are not averse to doing so.

If you can pay the mordida, you obviously won't do hard labor either.

Originally posted by FiatLux
So for those who want to stick up for them, have at it. Make it even more fun, move one or two of them in with you and see how it works out.

Why can't we spend half the money we spend securing Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, and South Korea on our own border?

Why can't we offer a simple $5000 reward for information leading to the deportation of an illegal alien?

Problem would be solved in 6 months flat without any DHS Security CHECKPOINTS ON US LAND:

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Can you stop recording? NO
Will you roll down the window? NO
Can you turn off the vehicle? NO
Can you get out of the vehicle? NO

If you're going to impede me from doing this I'm going to take you out of the vehicle by force.
Your only other choice is to turn off the vehicle and get out of the vehicle.
You don't have to do anything, I'm going to make you.

WATCH both videos.
Watch the similar video suggestions.

IS THIS THE AMERICA YOU WANT?

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by mrsdudara


I have to agree. It now puts the light on them to either put up, or shut up. As I said before, if we can fund a war effort, than why not take some of those funds and get this job done? This foot dragging is for the birds, and I have a feeling it is done on purpose. For one, why allow this if it is illegal to cross the border in places other than a check point? What do we need to do, put a check point every five hundred feet along the border to make sure this doesn`t happen? No, you can either hire and train citizens as border guards, or use a states own National Guard to do the job. As for the National guard? Why not, they are already trained for the job, are they not? As for hiring citizens? It would help those who are out of work, would it not? Sure, it would take time to train them, but in the end if it helps to stop people from crossing the border illegally, then more power to it.

If the government refuses to make a bigger effort in this, and the state can show that this is draining their resources to the point of overburdening the states finances and tax payers, then the Feds have no leg to stand on. Doesn`t the Constitution have something to say in this case?

As much as I hate to say it this isn't exactly obama's fault ( I really hated saying that ) but it is happening under his watch. (that felt a little better) this whole border issue should've been taken care of a very, very long time ago, beyond even the carter years. But obama has a chance to fix it and he won't this ruling by the judge proves it and his push for immagration reform. Personally, I get this feeling we're heading into something and I think very soon that somethings going to break wether it's a staged event or not who knows.

Originally posted by Digital_Reality
Its official!
It no longer matters if you come to America legally. Our police are not even allowed to ask foreigners if they are in our country legally.

If you are here illegally, you are now free to misuse our system and smuggle drugs without fear of arrest. YAY!

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Digital_Reality]

They never were able and shouldn't be ever able to do so, thats what we have INS, and BP for. Federal.

How do you guys define border security?

Seems to me some of you are talking about zero tolerance.

Is this really feasible and how much money are you willing to throw at the problem?

reply to post by gotrox


The people that I know that got caught in Mexico say that they did not pay any mordida and were not forced into any type of labor. Maybe they just lucked out.

Of course they are not shooting everyone but the point is that they are really not shooting anyone because as you said they would rather catch you alive and get the bribe.

I do know that real theft and violence happens on that border but it isn't the countries policy. If it is perpetrated by those who should be enforcing the law that just makes them criminals with a badge. Again, their accions do not represent the laws of that country.

Originally posted by jam321
How do you guys define border security?

Seems to me some of you are talking about zero tolerance.

Is this really feasible and how much money are you willing to throw at the problem?

I've got know problem with them coming in legally. As for the cost? If they'd of done it back at the beginning it wouldn't've cost that much. Now with a sysytem that would actually work? I'm afraid to even touch on a number cause it probaly won't even be close.

Originally posted by jam321
How do you guys define border security?

Seems to me some of you are talking about zero tolerance.

Is this really feasible and how much money are you willing to throw at the problem?

It means securing, with men, every visible inch of the BORDER. 2000 miles, 20,000 national guardsman equally spaced every 1/10 mile. It means helicopters and FLIR.

It means offering incentives for Americans to turn in illegals rather than incentives to employ them.

I'd be willing to throw every penny of the $3 billion we give to Israel each year in armament money. Not to mention the vast sums spent in Iraq and Afghanistan.... but I doubt it would take a 1/100 of that.

It means a budget focused on NATIONAL SECURITY rather than NATION BUILDING.

How many troops are we financially supporting overseas these days? 1/4 million?

Who's going to benefit in the end?
The average American?
...or the average Haliburton?

Sri Oracle

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Sri Oracle]

reply to post by Sri Oracle


First you said this and I have to agree

Why should we let the CREATED PROBLEM of illegal immigration scare us into accepting further encroachments upon our LIBERTY?

But then you said this and IMO is in conflict with the above.

Why can't we offer a simple $5000 reward for information leading to the deportation of an illegal alien?

You do realize that such a program would encroach on the liberty of many Americans who just happen to be Hispanics.

It means securing, with men, every visible inch of the BORDER.

For How Long?

reply to post by jam321


Well let`s look at the word security. Something that secures. Also, measures taken to guard against espionage or sabotage, crime, attack, or escape.

As for a border, it is the outer part or edge, a boundry.

Now put those two together. What do you have? Measures taken to guard against espionage or sabotage, crime, attack, or escape at the outer part or edge of a boundry. Is that enough to describe it?

reply to post by Sri Oracle



Always a sensationalist around when you need them

Nobody said to just randomly stop and ask for papers, NEVER has that been part of the deal, if they are stopped for something else and said person cant even speak enough english to answer the first question, yes the officer should be able to ask for any and all ID and info regaurding his status. Yes some could take advantage of this, No not all would so its not enough to poopoo the entire thing for those that would.

It would take other steps to make this work, no doubt about it, but you have to start someplace and AZ was getting the ball rolling, Im greatful and they have my support as I hope my lovely state of Texas follows suit

Originally posted by Wiz4769
Always a sensationalist around when you need them

Nobody said to just randomly stop and ask for papers, NEVER has that been part of the deal,

Call me a sensationalist.

Then google search:

DHS CHECKPOINT US LAND

It is part of the "deal".

Sri Oracle

reply to post by FiatLux


I guess it is enough to describe it.

But define your version of border security. Right now we have about 16-17,000 border patrol on the southern border on top of many alphabet agencies on top of many law enforcement backing them up.

How much more is needed to secure the border ?


My point in this is that many of you rather see a fortified border and spend unlimited money to keep illegals out when in reality it would be easier just to ensure that these illegals can't get a job.

If Illegals can't get jobs, they go home or no longer come. No cost for detention, no cost for deportation, no big cost on heavily securing the border.

This in return frees up Border patrol and law enforcement to deal with the criminal elements that are bringing in the drugs.