Revelation; The Beast- 666

Originally posted by Aesir26
No. Learn Hebrew and gematria.

No. Gematria is a waste of time, because it leads to so many different possible answers that they all cancel each other out- there is no way of judging between them.
As I mentioned in the OP, one person on this very site (I withheld his name to save embarassment) has identified at least four different people as the Antichrist, by the use of gematria. They include George Bush, Obama, Arnold Schwarzeneggar, and Georges Papandreou.
If gematria can produce so many different results, that makes it quite useless as a means of identifying one particular person.

In any case, as I also observed in the OP, it is unlikely that God would use gematria in order to communicate with a people (the modern world) who don't understand gematria.
God is a communicator. It seems better to interpret Revelation on the basis that God is giving a message meant to be understood, and not just addressing esoteric code-breakers.

Originally posted by dave13
- You have listened to an Italian mass, well I listen to a Croatian mass for the last 40 years.

I have never in my life listened to an Italian mass, nor even a Latin one.
I am not a Catholic. I am a Protestant.

- 13 is JESUS, Chapter 13 in the Revelation was written against Jesus.

In the first place, the chapter numbers are not in the original text. They were added in later centuries. So they cannot be relevant to interpretation.

I repeat to you what I said to Mr Cobb.
Revelation focusses on Jesus as the figure of salvation.
As the saviour of the church, he dominates the first and last chapters and keeps cropping up at points in-between.
In the first chapter, the fifth chapter, and the twelfth chapter, it is the power of the Atonement, the death and resurrection of Jesus, that drives the salvation of the church and the downfall of their persecutors.

This book is about Jesus and meant to encourage the followers of Jesus, so it is not going to identify Jesus as an enemy.
That's just non-rational and perverse.

reply to post by DISRAELI


DSIRAELI

Sorry, mistake with the CATHOLIC MASS.

Winners of the war wrote the history books. 70 AD Jerusalem was o more with the followers of YESHUA. ony one left was the fake spy PAUL who's teaching is the modern day fake Christianity ,
WHICH IS AGAINST Yeshua as the MESSIAH.

REVELATION WAS WRITTEN AGAINST THE LEADERS WHO WERE AGAINST YESHUA 100 PERCENT TRUE.

Why do you think the VATICAN IS SO EVIL, SO RICH WITH GOLD ETC ETC.

CHAPTER 12 or the revelations is just inportant as chapter 13.
The women represents the chosen people, not mary as everyone made to
believe in the Catholic Church, the statue of MARY in the CATHOLIC church is the same
women in Chapter 12 that represents the chosen people.

The moon represents the defest of JESUS and the crown represents the the 12 tribes.
The statue of liberty in NEW YORK was formed from the above paragraph of the Revelation, that is
why the feet of the statue represent a broken shackle, symbolising the overthrow of
tyranny, who is Jesus. Jesus is also described as the crescent, therefore, the reason
why it is depicted on all Islamic symbols and of his defeat.
Across the road from the Zagreb Cathedral in Croatia is a gold statue of a woman portrayed with
12 stars above her head, and the moon and snake beneath her feet, and below that
are 4 beasts with water pouring out of their mouths. (Revelation 12.15) "...and then,
from his mouth, the dragon poured out of a flood of water after the woman."
People seem to think the statue represents Mary, however, even the churches preach
that this woman symbolises God's chosen people (Revelation 12).

Isaiah 66.7 " My Holy city is like a women who suddenly gives birth to a child"
Isaiah 66.13 "I will comfort you in Jerusalem as a mother comforts her child"

Women = A nation
12 stars above her head, 12 tribes

Dragon= snake , devil

666= xxx= +++= father, son, holy spirit= Holy Trinity= JESUS.

6= the 6th day of the week, Friday, the day Jesus was crucified.

SATAN= in Hebrew means opponent, JESUS WAS THE OPPONENT
to the leaders who crucified him and they wrote the Revelation against him.

reply to post by dave13


Yeshua is JESUS true Name in Aramaic


BUDHA IS BUDHA, MUHAMED IS MUHAMED.

The TRUE reason that they changed JESUS name is because they hate him.
JESUS is Satan to the EYES OF THE VATICAN
Satan in Hebrew means OPPONENT, Yeshua was the opponent to the leaders
that Crucified him.

John 14.14, " if you do anything in my name I will do it" = YESHUA
john 16.26, " When the day comes you will ask him in my name" = YESHUA
ACTS 4.16 -" it was the power of his name that gave strength to this man" =YESHUA

ACTS 4.16 "Everyone in Jerusalem knows that this extraodinary miracle has been
performedby them (Peter,John), and we cannot denny it. But to keep this matter
from spreading any further among the people, LET US WARN THESE MEN
NEVER AGAIN TO SPEAK TO ANYONE IN THE NAME OF YESHUA"

AND NOW THEY USE JESUS CHRIST WHICH HAS NOTHING
TO DO WITH YESHUA THE MESSIAH.

Every Christian should be baptised again in the name of YESHUA, not the Father, Son,
Holy Spirit or the name of JESUS.

Originally posted by dave13
JESUS WAS THE OPPONENT
to the leaders who crucified him and they wrote the Revelation against him.

Please read Revelation from beginning to end.
Starting from the very first verse, you will see that Jesus is the absolute centre of the faith of the writer and the people he's addressing.
He is the first person who speaks, and almost the last as well.
It is a book for people who believe in Jesus.
Therefore it does not make sense to suggest that the book was written against him.

Like you, I don't believe that the woman in ch12 is Mary.
My discussion of the woman can be found at the attached thread;
Revelation; The woman in heaven

Originally posted by dave13
Yeshua is JESUS true Name in Aramaic

The exact spelling and pronunciation of the name does not matter.
You must not think that this kind of triviality is an essential point of salvation.

REVELATION IS 100 PERCENT AGAINST JESUS,

666 IS JESUS,

I HAVE NOT ENOUGH TIME TO GO THROUGH EVERY CHAPTER IN THE REVELATION.

They use JESUS AS A SIN OFFERING AS AN ANIMAL, NOTHING ELSE, YOU TRULY BELIEVE THAT HTE VATICAN DID NOT GO AGAINST YESHUA AS THE MESSIJA?'? THEY ARE EVIL ORGANISATION.

GOD= DOG

DEVIL= LIVED

DONKEY= DON= PRIEST
KEY= CHI = X =+= JESUS

I have so much evidence against the REVELATION, PAUL, ETC ETC

chi rho is skull and bones 100 percent means death.

We have eyes but we do not see, we have a mouth but we do not speak, we ears but we do not hear

Originally posted by dave13
REVELATION IS 100 PERCENT AGAINST JESUS...
I HAVE NOT ENOUGH TIME TO GO THROUGH EVERY CHAPTER IN THE REVELATION.

If you don't even read the whole of Revelation, you have no logical right to make any claims about the whole of Revelation.
You have just destroyed your whole case, by admitting that you haven't read the book you're talking about.
I have read every chapter of Revelation, and I can assure you, on that basis, that it is 100% FOR Jesus

Forget all this playing about with letters and numbers, and just take an honest look at what the words actually say.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Hey Disraeli,

Nice thread as usual; here is the understanding of the Beast and of 666.

666

Both are essentially the same thing with 666 as a mark that identifies those who think in unity with the Beast. It is about the individual mind (spirit) and how they think (forehead = thoughts) and as a result of how they think they choose actions (rigth hand = works).

God's number for creation is 7, in 7 days He created mankind to be transformed into His image (6 days of work + 1 day of rest).

"6 days shall mankind work and labor in his efforts, but the 7th day is the Sabbath of (belonging to) God."

Here we find 6 days are given to mankind to go about his own business, in this verse the number 6 is identified as the number mankind has for himself. With the 7th day (number 7) given to represent God's purpose for creation.

666 is simply the numerical expression of man/man/man or more fully understood as man then/man now/and man in the future. Essentially those marked with the numerical sign 666 belong to a way of thinking that is apart from God's way of thinking. They are part of this age, the age of mankinds self rule; they do not want God's laws which lead to everlasting peace to rule over them, but rather create their own personal false God (in mankind's image) and choose to obey their hearts and the traditions of mankind rather then the truth of God's word.

"A day is as to a thousand years"

6 days you are to go about your own works (6000 years), but the 7th day (6000-7000 years) belongs to God. This is the millenial reign of Jesus Christ and the 144,000 members of the Kingdom of God redeemed from the age of mankinds self rule. This period of time will begin on May 19, 2013 on the day of Pentecost.

You are either marked by your thoughts and actions as part of this age (mankind's self rule = 666) or you are marked with God's mark.

"You shall keep the Sabbaths of the Lord your God throughout your generations as a SIGN/MARK/BEACON/SYMBOL that you are my people and I am your God."

This is the only other scripture in which the word "sign' is the exact same definition as the one used in Revelation speaking about the "mark" of the Beast. God's word states the "mark" of the Beast (Governments apart from the way of God) is 666, a number the represents your agreement with the governments, cultures, traditions of mankind created apart and against the laws of God. And His word defines the "sign" of God as the keeping of His Sabbaths "forever and throughout your generations".

THE BEAST

This is a wonderful story when understood fully. The "Beast" is a symbolic representation of all the Governments of mankind apart from God's laws, but it also is a specific system of Governements, involving a clear combination throughout time.

The understanding of the "Beast" began to be revealed through Daniel. He saw a staue with four distinct sections:

head = gold = Babylon (Lion)
shoulders/torso = silver = Peria (Bear)
midsection/pelvis = bronze = Greece (Leopard)
legs/feet = iron mingled with clay = Rome (Dragon)

These are the four global ruling governments that would exist between the time of Daniel and the time of Jesus Christ.

Rome (Dragon) was ruling at the time of Jeus Christ.

Now notice Revelation
13:2
"The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority."

Here John reveals the Beasts origin; Leopard, Bear, Lion and Dragon; the governments of mankind apart from God's law. Also notice it is the Dragon (Rome) that gives the Beast the authority.

The Scarlet colored beast speaking blasphamies against God is the Holy Roman Empire. It had 7 revivals (Heads) after it appeared dead (goths sack Rome). It was created by the Emperor Constantine in 323 AD after the defeat of Lycenius thus uniting all of Rome under one Emperor who then declared the state religion to be Roman Catholism. This is the emergence of the scarlet colored Beast.

After Constantine's death the Empire suffered a mortal wound (Goths sack Rome) but miraculously Justinian a few years later re-united the Holy Roman Empire and through a coronation performed by the Catholic Pope, he created the first of 7 revivals (heads) of the holy Roman Empire. In each revival a combination pope+emperor = Holy Roman Empire.

Revivals:

1. Justinian
2. Charlemagne
3. Hapsburgs
4. Otto Von Bismark
5. Napolean Bonaparte
6. Adolph Hitler

7. Later this year/early next year when 10 nations in Europe (10 crowns) join together to create the United States of Europe, this event occurs after the soon to be fall of the US, UK, Canada, AU and NZ.

continued

reply to post by ElohimJD


going on...

In 323 Constantine untied the Holy Roman Empire.

Now notice in Revelation:
"The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months."

42 months = 1260 days.
a day for a year = 1260 years

323 AD + 1260 years = 1583

In 1583 Queen Elizabeth I of England declared Romish authority no longer applies to the British. The first nation to break the authority of the Holy Roman Empire and created the first British Empire. Thus after exactly 1260 years the authority of the Beast ended over the British (brith = covenant; ish = people in hebrew).

One final thing to add.

"and the children of Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt 430 years"

The British and Americans today are the tribe of Joseph who bares the name of Israel NOT Judah (think Zion olympics, Jerusalem on Englands green and pleasant land, stone of scone = Jacob's pillar stone etc.).

Israel (UK) broke the authority of the Holy Roman Empire over them in 1583.

1583 + 430 years dwelling in Egypt (symbolic of sin) = 2013!

May 19, 2013 the "Beast" finally dies forever.

Blessed are those who have ears to hear and eyes to see the truth of these prophecies.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD

Thank you for those comments.
I am a student of history, as well as a student of theology. In fact I was a student of history first.
So i could find one or two flaws in your survey of history.
For example, it was Charlemagne, not Justinian, who famously got himself crowned by the Pope, and you got Napoleon and Bismarck in the wrong order.

However, the point I really want to challenge is the significance of the year 1583. I would not agree that this year was the turning point separating England from Rome. The real decision had already been made in the Act of Supremacy of 1559. Even then, Elizabeth was anticipated in the previous generation by her father, Henry VIII.

I think you may be guilty of the sin of arguing backwards from the intended conclusion.
In other words, instead of basing your calculation on the important year 1583, you may have fixed on the year 1583 because it fitted your calculations.
That is my one of my objections to the whole business of trying to calculate dates for the end-times.
As with using gematria to work out the meaning of "666", it's only too easy to juggle the figures to make them arrive at the number you want.
I wrote a thread on the subject;

Revelation prophecy; The futility of date-setting

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by MrCobb

 

Consider the nature of the book Revelation.
This is a Christian book.
It is focussing on the figure of Christ,who dominates the first and last chapters and keeps popping up in between.
It focusses on the death and resurrection of Christ as the power that drives the salvation narrative and brings about the downfall of the persecutors (this comes out in ch1, ch5, ch12).
It is addressed to the Christian community, encouraging them to stand firm against those who are trying to break down their faith in God and his Christ.
Now, that kind of book is hardly going to identify Christianity as the enemy, which is the message in your linked thread.
That won't be what it means.

Nice! So your advice is "everyone totally ignore how the bible itself thoroughly explains the concepts- don't look at the name of the one and only man in scripture who number is factually counted to be 666": whatever you do- just listen to some other nonsense that isn't in the bible at all.

By the way to any reading: the book isn't identifying TRUE Christianity as the enemy but FALSE Christianity- the hulking Goliath of warped nonsense these people calling themselves "Christians" are trying to feed you (wormwood it is: bitter poison)

This guy wants you to believe anything called "Christianity" must be good: I guess he forgot to read the 7 letters to the 7 churches where Jesus matter-of-factly tells 5 of the churches "you are miserable- either repent, or be destroyed": but, "Disraeli to the rescue! PLEASE people, whatever you do, don't think "Christianity" is bad!"

Re 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

But hey, why listen to the bible when you can get your understanding from "Disraeli" (for the small sum of 30 pieces of silver)

Good luck with that Grima! hint: it turns out really bad, wailing and gnashing of teeth bad. But, yeah, good luck with that.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Consider the nature of the book Revelation.
This is a Christian book.
It is focussing on the figure of Christ,who dominates the first and last chapters and keeps popping up in between.
It focusses on the death and resurrection of Christ as the power that drives the salvation narrative and brings about the downfall of the persecutors (this comes out in ch1, ch5, ch12).
It is addressed to the Christian community, encouraging them to stand firm against those who are trying to break down their faith in God and his Christ.
Now, that kind of book is hardly going to identify Christianity as the enemy, which is the message in your linked thread.
That won't be what it means.

Originally posted by Mr Cobb
I guess he forgot to read the 7 letters to the 7 churches where Jesus matter-of-factly tells 5 of the churches "you are miserable- either repent, or be destroyed":

Not at all. I wrote two threads on them, which can be found on the "Index" thread of my Revelation series along with all the other threads.
You see, my approach was based on working through the whole of Revelation, calmly and systematically, with a view to trying to understand what the author was getting at.

Whereas you are starting from hostility to the church and trying to twist the text into whatever agrees with that emotion, which is not the best way of gaining a real understanding. Dave13 has a similar approach, but seems to have given up on this one. Are you friends?

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

Thank you for those comments.
I am a student of history, as well as a student of theology. In fact I was a student of history first.
So i could find one or two flaws in your survey of history.
For example, it was Charlemagne, not Justinian, who famously got himself crowned by the Pope, and you got Napoleon and Bismarck in the wrong order.

However, the point I really want to challenge is the significance of the year 1583. I would not agree that this year was the turning point separating England from Rome. The real decision had already been made in the Act of Supremacy of 1559. Even then, Elizabeth was anticipated in the previous generation by her father, Henry VIII.

I think you may be guilty of the sin of arguing backwards from the intended conclusion.
In other words, instead of basing your calculation on the important year 1583, you may have fixed on the year 1583 because it fitted your calculations.
That is my one of my objections to the whole business of trying to calculate dates for the end-times.
As with using gematria to work out the meaning of "666", it's only too easy to juggle the figures to make them arrive at the number you want.
I wrote a thread on the subject;

Revelation prophecy; The futility of date-setting

edit on 15-11-2012 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

Regarding the ordering of the revivals; I appologize for mis-labeling them.

Justinian, Charlamange, Otto the Great (not bismark), Hapsburgs, Napolean, Hitler.

That is the correct order.

1583 is the year the First British Empire was created according to most historical records. That is the event that broke the authority, by the creation of a new authority according to revelation from God.

God will reveal sin in me through His spirit in me, what you are not taking into concideration is that I am not working backwards from anything. The years 323AD, 1583AD and 2013AD and the counting thereof was revealed through the office of a prophet of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, just as God says He reveals all things through.

Non of this is me fixing in on anything, it is me sharing the truth God has revealed to His servants the prophets that I have accepted in humility and thankfullness as a member of the Temple of God (Church of God, Body of Christ).

In time, God will make to stand those who share His truth at this time. It may not be time for this to be accepted by you yet, but it is the truth and God will proove what is true in this day of the Lord we are living through. God is obviously working with your mind, to lead you into such extensive study into the end of this age and the events thereof. In His perfect timing these words will ring in your ears and an awesome understanding will make them plain to you.

I greatly enjoy your threads and look forward to the time all God's truth will be revealed to mankind.

God Bless,

DISREAL,

I GIVE MY LIFE THAT JESUS IS 666,

I HAVE READ THE REVELATION ATLEAST 20 TIMES AND DONE ALOT OF RESEARCH IN THE 90'S, I did not have a computer and all my research was in BOOKS. i have given some proof to the CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE 90'S, THEY JUST SHUT UP AND DID NOT SAY A WORD.

I HAVE READ THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT MANY TIMES AND STUDIED IT INSIDE AND OUT.

READ THE KURAN AND STUDIED NEARLY EVERY RELIGION IN THE WORLD, SO PLEASE DONT TELL ME THAT I HAVE NOT READ A FEW PAGES OF THE REVELATION.

616

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by dave13


IN HEBREW

6 = ' I'

I I I = 666

FRIDAY IN HEBREW = ום שיש Don't forget to read from right to left.

6th letter in the hebrew alphabet = " I" , same as the 6 numeral which is also " I"

To pronounce the 6th alphabet "I" is WAW or VAV

WAW is old HEBREW AND ANCIENT EGYTIAN IS WRITTEN " Y"

From Y it went to " I " and then the greeks took it and made it " F"

So Y is YESHUA, WHICH BECAME THE LETTER " F= FRIDAY

I hope you are CLUEY enough to understand all this.

reply to post by dave13



CHAPTER 12 or the revelations is just inportant as chapter 13.
The women represents the chosen people, not mary as everyone made to
believe in the Catholic Church, the statue of MARY in the CATHOLIC church is the same
women in Chapter 12 that represents the chosen people.

The moon represents the defest of JESUS and the crown represents the the 12 tribes.
The statue of liberty in NEW YORK was formed from the above paragraph of the Revelation, that is
why the feet of the statue represent a broken shackle, symbolising the overthrow of
tyranny, who is Jesus. Jesus is also described as the crescent, therefore, the reason
why it is depicted on all Islamic symbols and of his defeat.
Across the road from the Zagreb Cathedral in Croatia is a gold statue of a woman portrayed with
12 stars above her head, and the moon and snake beneath her feet, and below that
are 4 beasts with water pouring out of their mouths. (Revelation 12.15) "...and then,
from his mouth, the dragon poured out of a flood of water after the woman."
People seem to think the statue represents Mary, however, even the churches preach
that this woman symbolises God's chosen people (Revelation 12).

Isaiah 66.7 " My Holy city is like a women who suddenly gives birth to a child"
Isaiah 66.13 "I will comfort you in Jerusalem as a mother comforts her child"

Women = A nation
12 stars above her head, 12 tribes

Dragon= snake , devil

666= xxx= +++= father, son, holy spirit= Holy Trinity= JESUS.

6= the 6th day of the week, Friday, the day Jesus was crucified.

SATAN= in Hebrew means opponent, JESUS WAS THE OPPONENT
to the leaders who crucified him and they wrote the Revelation against him.

Originally posted by dave13
READ THE KURAN AND STUDIED NEARLY EVERY RELIGION IN THE WORLD, SO PLEASE DONT TELL ME THAT I HAVE NOT READ A FEW PAGES OF THE REVELATION.

I got that information from you.
I advised you to read the whole of Revelation, and you said you didn't have time.
Sorry- your answer was misleading.

If you've read Revelation, you clearly haven't absorbed what it says.
From the very first verse, it is focussed on the person of Jesus as the centre of the writer's faith, and the faith of the people he's writing to.

constantine is a criminal who killed just for fun, a very sick person.

And has nothing to do with 42 months, all CONSTANTINE DID WAS PUSH THE

fake chi rho, which is death, sKull and bones.

REVELATION WAS WRITTEN AFTER 70AD, ONCE THE FIRST DISCIPLES WERE ALL KILLED IN JERUSALEM.

42 MONTHS = 3.5 YEARS, JESUS preached for 3.5 years

666 IS JESUS