Rejected from boyscouts for not believing in God

I received a call about one hour ago from my cousin who is 10 and was wanting to join the boy scouts. Me and him are very close and he is an Atheist too. I guess he was applying for whenever they start and in the paper work apparently it says you must believe in a god in order to join the scouts.

I told him there must be a mistake because no significant organization such as the Boy Scouts can reject you for your religious/spiritual beliefs. So Then I went online and found this on a Wikipedia Page about Boy Scout controversies.

The Boy Scouts of America's position is that atheists and agnostics cannot participate as Scouts (youth members) or Scouters (adult leaders) in its traditional Scouting programs. According to the Bylaws of the BSA, Declaration of Religious Principle:


"The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members."

During the membership application process and as a requirement to obtain membership, youths and adults are required to subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to agree to abide by the Scout Oath and Law, which include the words, "do my duty to God" and "reverent". Youths are also required to repeat the Scout Oath and Law periodically after being accepted as Scouts. The BSA believes that atheists and agnostics are not appropriate role models of the Scout Oath and Law for boys, and thus will not accept such adults as leaders.

en.wikipedia.org...




They can't be freaking serious! He is just a kid! This is very insulting to any person who respects separation of religion from institution and this is appalling. It is also highly offensive! So I must believe in god to be a good citizen!? You must be kidding me!

[edit on 7/25/2010 by Misoir]

You cannot separate religion from all institutions, because religious people must be allowed to have institutions too. You can believe in separating it from the state, but the Scouts are not a state institution.
They were founded by Baden-Powell on a remit which included belief in God. I understand that non-believers have founded their own versions of the body, for exactly that reason.

[edit on 25-7-2010 by DISRAELI]

believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-James2.19

Troop 567

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-James2.19

Troop 567

What a load of crap!

And 'no king but jesus', I thought we gave up monarchy for democracy? Down with all kings! God, Jesus and whoever else wants to rule over people without their consent.

Ha! I was in Sea Cadets when I was a kid. The meetings were held in a Presbyterian church hall. Each of us was expected to take a turn at cutting the lawns around the church as a way of pay-back I guess.

It used to burn my socks. I didn't even attend church but I had to cut their lawns?!?!

Anyway, Scouts is probably best to be avoided anyway. Too much brainwashing along with the fun stuff like going on camping trips. Its basically a repugnant organization -- especially if your an atheist and gay to boot.

Today is the 100th birthday of the Boy Scouts.

Happy Birthday! May God bless them with 100 more great years!

reply to post by Carseller4


That's a huge lie on your part! The date is July, 25, 2010. Boys Scots was founded on February 8, 1910

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel




www.newsday.com...

Local Boy Scouts mark Scouting's 100th anniversary

Seems like it was a local thing! Still a great accomplishment!

Nice catch though.

reply to post by Misoir


Well I knew that the boy scouts were a religious institution to begin with really, however I have a different question.

Why is the 10 year old an Atheist? Is he old enough to even comprehend what religion is? He's obviously not mature at 10 to make up his mind about sprirituality and God.

His belly button isn't even healed yet!

I hate hearing crap like this, when kids have a religion, or don't have one for that matter.

People need to stop putting religion into kid's head. Either belief in religion or belief against it, they should wait until they can comprehend.

Boy Scouts suck anyway.

~Keeper

reply to post by Carseller4


Gurr, we're both right. It's weird. Sorry for snapping at you. I need to get to sleep. The sun is starting to rise in the West.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Misoir

 

Well I knew that the boy scouts were a religious institution to begin with really, however I have a different question.

Why is the 10 year old an Atheist? Is he old enough to even comprehend what religion is? He's obviously not mature at 10 to make up his mind about sprirituality and God.

His belly button isn't even healed yet!

I hate hearing crap like this, when kids have a religion, or don't have one for that matter.

People need to stop putting religion into kid's head. Either belief in religion or belief against it, they should wait until they can comprehend.

Boy Scouts suck anyway.

~Keeper

I agree, also on the whole boy scouts suck thing.

My cousin made it through to get his eagle scout badge only with the help of his parents.

This is the same kid that vandalized my car and house every night for like two weeks until he got caught, he was almost 18 at the time. Just got a slap on the wrist. No one ever knew what a rotten kid he was and he went on to receive his eagle scout.

Pisses me off only because these people are supposed to be "model citizens".

reply to post by Misoir


Consider him lucky! Be glad he does not feel the need to go eagle scout.
I suppose if the kid needs some crafty social skills, such as the knot tying you could jump in and show him how.

I found the BS group my son was in to be soft handshakers, and generally somewhat fem, girly boys and dads. It kind of creeped me out. We had the less physically fit, wierd and nerdy boys making up the group.

I will say that they found a little magic with the pinewood derby.

Lucky for me my boy could see the difference in the group (compared to the football team) and quit on his own.

Banning a 10 year old because he says he doesn't believe in god? He's freaking 10! Would they also ban him because he still believes in the easter bunny?

There is no separation of church from institution and there is no reason for it. Just because a religious organization becomes popular, doesn't mandate it to conform to the standard of every individual who desires to participate. Seems people enjoy making a big fuss about something they can't do, and forget about the millions of other things they can devote time and energy to. Besides, the scouts don't define what god is do they? If not, money can be your god, or whatever, and you can confidently say yes if they ask if you believe in god or a god.

reply to post by Misoir


it is not crap, it was a paste of scripture that says demons even believe in God, even all American monies say Trust in God, pledge under God, etc etc. and I was in scouts before I knew Jesus, just a comment to a post, but I find it very hard for children not to believe in God unless fiercly indoctrinated, you'll find almost every creation know there is a God and more of a learned rejection some I think more specific and forensic in their attempts but none the less they have a right, should we start telling churchs to do what athiest want? or God that he does'nt have a Son?

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by Misoir

 

it is not crap, it was a paste of scripture that says demons even believe in God, even all American monies say Trust in God, pledge under God, etc etc. and I was in scouts before I knew Jesus, just a comment to a post, but I find it very hard for children not to believe in God unless fiercly indoctrinated, you'll find almost every creation know there is a God and more of a learned rejection some I think more specific and forensic in their attempts but none the less they have a right, should we start telling churchs to do what athiest want? or God that he does'nt have a Son?

Our money should not say anything about god on any publicly funded things. In God we trust should be removed from our currency since it violates the separation of church and state and so should Under God.

So now children are indoctrinated because the don't believe in fairytales? And isn't it kind of funny you say it's a learned rejection? I completely agree, you must actually learn things hence be educated to actually free yourself from the shackles of dogma, supernatural and theism.

Well first there would have to be a god to tell him/her they don't have a son.

And no, churches should not be required to abide by Atheism at all, I did not know until now that the Boy Scouts was so entrenched in religious institutions anyway or I would have told my cousin not to join. That would have saved him this heartache.

reply to post by Misoir


look I used to make fun of Christ/God/Bible anything and remember soon before this happened telling everyone it was all just something for the weakminded to believe in for life to make since, I could have a thick book written of all the crap I've been through and pulled, but this happened

I heard an audible voice one night as if sitting to my left as soon as I began to open the cover of a small green Gideon NT that a woman had left on the bar a few days earlier, say-"my name, I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish"-I stood to my feet turned towards the voice and said yes Lord, did'nt know the scriptures and was'nt raised churched either, and here are just a few interesting ones-

I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.-John5.25

For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.-2Cor5.14

reply to post by Misoir

I was in the cub scouts as a kid and I know it was tied into the church somehow. I remember the meetings being held in one of the church buildings so your title didn't seem as much of a surprise to me. I really didn't know how tied in it was so I too did a little research.

Religious organizations host/sponsor over 60% of the approximately 123,000 Scouting units in the United States...including the Latter-day Saints (Mormon), Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, and Presbyterian churches

It's an organization that's funded by the church so how difficult is to understand that they would want you to believe in God? Chances are you wouldn't go to church if you didn't believe in God.

the Supreme Court of the United States has affirmed that as a private organization, the BSA can set its own membership standards...as a private organization in the United States they have the right to freedom of association

You question why you have to believe in God in order to become a boy scout. I question why would someone want to become part of an organization that doesn't share the same beliefs as they do? It's a private organization that's entitled to have whatever prerequisites or beliefs it chooses to have in order for membership. Freedom of religion is each persons right in this country and I fully support an individuals choice. I speculate there's a group better suited to you and your cousins beliefs instead of the boy scouts.

Originally posted by Misoir
Our money should not say anything about god on any publicly funded things. In God we trust should be removed from our currency since it violates the separation of church and state and so should Under God.

I agree with you on this and it's always confused me since I learned about the separation of church and state. But it's different than the boy scout example since one is related to church and state and the other is related to a private, church related organization and an individuals choice of joining said private organization. I think you've answered your own question.

I guess the boys scouts weren't what you, or your cousin, thought it was and if anything I would think you would be pleased that he didn't enter an organization that has different beliefs than the two of you. As an analogy, a while ago I was talking to a friend whos girlfriend broke up with him. They didn't see things eye to eye and had different opinions on things although he was still upset. In trying to help ease his pain I asked him a simple question. Why would you want to be with a person that doesn't have the same beliefs, thoughts and goals as you?


Boy Scouts of America membership controversies

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Misoir

 

Well I knew that the boy scouts were a religious institution to begin with really, however I have a different question.

Why is the 10 year old an Atheist? Is he old enough to even comprehend what religion is? He's obviously not mature at 10 to make up his mind about sprirituality and God.

Because we are all born atheist and if no one brainwashes you into believing otherwise by the time you are ten, you are still an atheist. Pretty simple.

Side note: I was raised Catholic, believing in God and all that. I first declared that bible did not make sense and gods seemed like made up fairy tales to me - according to my mom - when I was 8 so yeah, even kids who have their atheism taken from them right away can tell the difference between a fairy tale and reality.

[edit on 25-7-2010 by Adevoc Satanae]

reply to post by Misoir


Maybe this will serve as a lesson for your own intolerance.

You say people who believe in God are anti-intellectual, when it is, in fact, my knowledge of the sciences that has brought me to my faith.

You say that God is a figment of our imaginations and there's something wrong with us....Did you know atheists only make up around 12 or 13% of the world population? Maybe there's something wrong with you that you are incapable of having a spiritual experience.

You believe you are the sum of your parts. I believe we're are far greater than that, and without God we wouldn't be.

I'm sorry your cousin was rejected from Boy scouts. I believe this is a travesty. You don't go to boy scouts to learn about God, that's what church is for. But when you go around shoving atheism is everyone's face you should expect a little backlash.