Atheists angry that Masons are invited to their summit with the EU

As masonry isn't a religion there is no logic in hosting them with the religious factions. They do have influence however and had to be accommodated by the EU. If I were a mason I would prefer this arrangement to going with the Bishops et cetera. It may give the wrong impression.

reply to post by Jon Quinn


That's not entirely true . From what I have seen , to be a mason they must believe in some higher power .

Can a Mason please clear this up ?

[edit on 23-7-2010 by Max_TO]

Atheists are terrified of what they dont know or understand or what doesnt fit into their Academic training. Its almost heartbreaking to see how ignorant they are.

reply to post by Max_TO


One did already.

All masonic groups that accept atheists are irregular. (rogue) I could never be a Mason unless I lied. If I lied, I wouldn't be a very good Freemason.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Atheists are terrified of what they dont know or understand or what doesnt fit into their Academic training.

We just chose not to fill in what with we "don't know or understand" with made-up mountain gods and other such nonsense.

Do you believe in Zeus? Horus? Of course not, THAT is nonsense, isn't it?

Its almost heartbreaking to see how ignorant they are.

That hurts Sky. Really hurts.

So deny ignorance, deny atheism?

This doesn't surprise me at all. The EU exists purely to think of ever more bizarre ways of wasting money.

Why can't the Humanists and Masons go along to the same waste of time and money big banquet and drinks bash as the Catholics and Hindus?

Or, if the Masons have a big freebie in Brussels, why can't the Boy Scouts go along as well?

Seeing as this daft idea comes from Belgium I guess it's another reason to hope the country breaks apart sooner rather than later!

It's worth pointing out that 99% of atheists are in no way connected with nor wish to be connected with the European Humanist Federation - which is basically just a pseudo-political lobby group which has no remit to represent anyone except its members and thus represents me, as an atheist, in the same way the head of Shintoism represents me.

The fact the EHF has got it's knickers in a twist over this malarkey is quite amusing though

[edit on 23-7-2010 by Essan]

reply to post by FortAnthem


I don't understand. If Article 17 calls for "an open, transparent and regular dialogue with… churches and non-confessional and philosophical organisations", then why weren't the Masons and Atheists invited to the original summit in the first place?

Why a second summit?

Freemason is a philosophical organisation, and there are plenty of atheist organizations. Why the separation?

It seems to me atheists are not represented at the summit and are therefore in danger of being discriminated against. (I'd rather have individuals such as Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins or other well-spoken individual represent atheists at the summit, rather than some organization I've never heard of.)

The majority of masons are probably already covered by one of the other religious representative. Although I doubt Deists and others who believe in a non-intervening god are represented at all.


[edit on 23/7/10 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Freemason is a philosophical organisation, and there are plenty of atheist organizations.

Here is where I get confused. There are plenty of atheist organizations? I was not aware. I kind of thought the whole reason to be atheist was to get rid of the fluffy fellowship, and therefore not be a part of any group.

Cnut, can you shed some light on that for me?

You know,
Even the weirdest stuff that goes on usually has some solid information or opinions from ATS members to start a dialogue with.
This one took a dozen posts from bewildered members just to get rolling.

It was a good laugh. I needed that. Thanks.

As far as the atheists being put out about it, why? Is atheism now an exclusive organized club that wants to keep out non-non-believers?

reply to post by network dude

Personally, I'm not part of any organization and would not care to. I just know they're out there. (like this 'European Humanist Federation')

From reading Essan's post above, I think I'm definitely part of the 99%. Although not being European, I have no horse in this race.

You're right, most atheist I know would not belong to any organized group. As in freemasonry, no atheist speaks for the whole group. Nevertheless, we should be represented at a meeting if the decisions taking at this meeting can or could possibly affect us.


[edit on 23/7/10 by ConspiracyNut23]

i agree the masons do hold religious gobleygook. but atheist do too. they make good bedfellows.

reply to post by Ausar

Do you mind pointing out an example of atheist 'religious gobleygook'?

That is nonsensical.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Do you mind pointing out an example of atheist 'religious gobleygook'?

Awww, you know...that stuff about you guys worshiping Darwin, and using incomprehensible religious terminology, with words like "quark" and "singularity".

reply to post by Masonic Light

lol. I realize you're joking, and I'm sure you know that that stuff is extraneous to atheism itself. Atheism simply rejects theology, or the existence of gods.

But thanks, I think I see Ausar's point now. (star!)


[edit on 23/7/10 by ConspiracyNut23]

My friends, there are two types of Masonry: Grand Lodge and Grand Orient.

By Grand Lodge, we refer to those lodges which are in amity, by and large, with the United Grand Lodge of England. By Grand Orient, we refer to those *minority* of Masons who followed the Grand Orient of France and who permit atheists to join their Lodges.

While the most notable difference between Grand Lodge and Grand Orient Masonry is the admission of atheists, it is also the case that the Grand Orients have a history of political meddling that would give Grand Lodge Masons fits. An earlier news story concerning Masonic objections to religious influence over the EU came from the Grand Orient of France.

Grand Orient Masonry is considered both irregular and clandestine by all "mainstream" and PHA Grand Lodges in the United States, by the UGLE, and by the vast majority of Masons in the world.

(cue music)... The more you know....

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Atheists are terrified of what they dont know or understand or what doesnt fit into their Academic training. Its almost heartbreaking to see how ignorant they are.

edit on by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

Ah, fantastic generalizations there champ.
Why is it every thread that has atheist in the title is an atheist bashing ground?
I love when ignorant people equate atheist with materialist.

[edit on 24-7-2010 by hippomchippo]

It should be a very short meeting no matter what. Tha atheists don't believe in anything and the Masons aren't going to waste very much time dealing with empty vessels.

Originally posted by driley
My friends, there are two types of Masonry: Grand Lodge and Grand Orient.

By Grand Lodge, we refer to those lodges which are in amity, by and large, with the United Grand Lodge of England. By Grand Orient, we refer to those *minority* of Masons who followed the Grand Orient of France and who permit atheists to join their Lodges.

This isn't exactly correct, as it's not a universal rule. The terms "Grand Lodge" and "Grand Orient" are interchangeable. Some Grand Orients are regular, and some Grand Lodges are not.

While the Grand Orient of France admits atheists, most Masonic bodies calling themselves "Grand Orient" do not. So one cannot automatically know whether or not a Masonic body is legitimate just by its name.