The Heiwa Challenge

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From this point forward, personal attacks or insults within this thread will be met with an immediate account termination.

Fair warning.

I was just trying to ascertain whether this guy wants to kill me or not.

Surely that's fair enough, given that the ending of my life would be a kind of big event for me?

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by OverrunThePerimeter

 

Nice to see you admit that you don't what caused the loud sudden noises either.

Its an empty box. You need to explain what you put in there, not me.

Why don't you ever have to know anything? Why does everything have to be proven to you? I'm asking for an actual reason by the way.......

It looks to me like you're the one coming here acting like everything's already been proven and case closed, right? So shouldn't you know important things like what caused the explosions?

reply to post by VirginiaRisesYetAgain

It looks to me like you're the one coming here acting like everything's already been proven and case closed, right? So shouldn't you know important things like what caused the explosions?

Nope.

I think the fact that some people reported loud sudden noises while on the world's largest buildings was consumed with fire, almost a quarter of a mile above the ground, and slowly succumbing to damage caused by heat and the impact of large jetliner isn't exactly revelatory of anything more significant than the known facts would indicate.

Somebody heard a loud "bang"? So what?

Careful. If you don't prove to his satisfaction what caused that bang he might start a revolution.

Originally posted by hooper
I think the fact that some people reported loud sudden noises while on the world's largest buildings was consumed with fire, almost a quarter of a mile above the ground, and slowly succumbing to damage caused by heat and the impact of large jetliner isn't exactly revelatory of anything more significant than the known facts would indicate.

What "known facts" are relevant to the explosions? You just admitted you don't know what the hell was making them and now you say because of "known facts" you're not even worried what was causing them.

If you want to talk about known facts, it is a known fact that many of the explosions witnesses talked about, were experienced in the basements and other parts of the buildings that were far removed from the impacts and fires. Firefighters were saying there were secondary devices. FBI officials were on CNN that morning saying they believed there was another truck bomb in the basement. There is recorded police radio transmissions where a policeman is reporting witnessing a vehicle exploding after seeing two men get out and run from it. None of those things have ever been explained, and there is MORE THAN ENOUGH information from all of that to suspect YES, it COULD have been a freaking series of bombs. This has never been debunked, and saying you don't give a damn what was causing them is not a debunking unless you are a very confused individual.

Somebody heard a loud "bang"? So what?

You notice I asked you for a reason everything has to be proven to you, and you didn't give me an answer?

You avoided my question.

What says I have to prove everything to YOU when we don't know something about 9/11? (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.)

When did anyone come here saying they had all the answers and you don't even need to worry your little head? (NEVER.)

Why aren't I and millions of other Americans entitled to real answers when people like you are too lazy and ignorant to care? (NO GOOD REASON.)

[edit on 13-8-2010 by VirginiaRisesYetAgain]

reply to post by VirginiaRisesYetAgain

What "known facts" are relevant to the explosions?

Uh, the fact that a jetplane full of jet fuel travelling 500mph just crashed into one of the world's largest buildings almost a quarter of a mile above street level. I think there may be a reason or two in that scenario to account for some random loud sudden noises.

To jump to the idea that there were explosives being initiated to facilitiate a collapse kind of requires a interim level of evidence. This something that the campaign will need to address positively, not just submitted for consideration.

reply to post by VirginiaRisesYetAgain

Why aren't I and millions of other Americans entitled to real answers when people like you are too lazy and ignorant to care? (NO GOOD REASON.)

Well the whole purposes of this thread is to consider the idea of a marketing campaign to facilitate a conspiracy related interest centered about the collapse of World Trade Center building #7. The fact that such a campaign is being considered is pretty much evidence that there are not millions of Americans asking questions, wouldn't you say? Also, please note that I do not consider every sentence that ends with ? a question. Baseless accusations and groundless interogatories can not always be addressed positively.

reply to post by hooper


Whoops, I am sorry, I am in the wrong thread. This is the one about the challenge, I thought it was the one about the campaign. My mistake.

In 2008 the Delft School of Architecture collapsed after a fire. There was a loud explosion reported and some while later it fell down.

One may either conclude that burning tower blocks that are about to collapse occasionally emit loud bangs. Or that Dick Cheney really hated architecture students from the south Netherlands.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


I'm going with the Dick Cheney thing. You know how he feels about architecture majors. Errrrrr.

Originally posted by hooper
Well the whole purposes of this thread is to consider the idea of a marketing campaign to facilitate a conspiracy related interest centered about the collapse of World Trade Center building #7. The fact that such a campaign is being considered is pretty much evidence that there are not millions of Americans asking questions, wouldn't you say?

Even though you already realized you posted this in the wrong thread, no, that's not what that means. Millions of Americans are already "asking questions" as you put it, according to numerous polls and surveys. These surveys are done by companies like Zogby that do them for money, or in other words professionally. Just because a bigger ad campaign is coming out to raise awareness to all the millions who have still not seen WTC7 "collapse," doesn't mean the other millions don't exist...

reply to post by AquariusDescending


I'm sorry, but there are not polls showing millions of Americans are asking questions about the basic events on 9/11, that is to say, 19 men hijack 4 planes and flew them into buildings and one hijacked plane crashed in PA due to passenger action.

They may want to know more about the security, intelligence and law enforcement efforts pre-9/11, but no one doubts who is responsible.

Originally posted by hooper
I'm sorry, but there are not polls showing millions of Americans are asking questions about the basic events on 9/11

Sorry but you are wrong. You should know better by now that all of the polls and surveys done do not only indicate questions of intelligence failures. I believe you are intentionally being deceitful and immature about this because you are just trying to win an argument.

Third of Americans suspect 9-11 government conspiracy

By THOMAS HARGROVE
Scripps Howard News Service

More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.

The national survey of 1,010 adults also found that anger against the federal government is at record levels, with 54 percent saying they "personally are more angry" at the government than they used to be.

www.scrippsnews.com...


54% of American adults are more angry at the government than they used to be. That's over half of the country in case you don't know statistics.

That's what makes it that much more scary when you have people posting here with Confederate flags as avatars and insinuating violence. Signs of the times my friends, and unless you enjoy warfare they are not good signs.

A poll taken by World Public Opinion, a collaborative project of research centers in various countries managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, College Park, polled 16,063 people in 17 nations outside of the United States during the summer of 2008. They found that majorities in only 9 of the 17 countries believe Al Qaeda carried out the attacks.

46 percent of those surveyed said al Qaeda was responsible, 15 percent said the U.S. government, 7 percent said Israel and 7 percent said some other perpetrator. One in four people said they did not know who was behind the attacks.[1]

The summary of the poll noted that "Though people with greater education generally have greater exposure to news, those with greater education are only slightly more likely to attribute 9/11 to al Qaeda." Steven Kull, director of WorldOpinionPoll.org, commented "It does not appear that these beliefs can simply be attributed to a lack of exposure to information."[2] Of those who said the United States was the perpetrator, Kull says many believe it was an attempt to justify an impending U.S. invasion of Iraq.

Many more polls and surveys here if you are interested in educating yourself: en.wikipedia.org...


It amazes me how uninformed you remain after posting so much here every day. You deny way too much, things that everyone else already agrees on, like these polls and what they are asking, which is very easy to read. Do you think everything you post is automatically true just because you say it, so you never have to double check and you're never wrong? I don't understand how you can say so much that is so blatantly wrong and yet never think you've made a mistake somewhere.

That's why I found the quote I bolded ironic. That lack of exposure to information is apparently all on the other side of this discussion.

Personally I find it absolutely amazing that 46 per cent of Americans are not angrier with the government. Given the circumstances the country is in.

Personally I find it absolutely amazing that 46 per cent of Americans are not angrier with the government. Given the circumstances the country is in.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Right, that would be the apathetic crowd that exists everywhere, for every time.

During the 1st revolution, throughout the entire conflict, at least 1/3 of the people living here apparently couldn't care less.

On one hand you can admire some of them for steadfastly refusing to fight I suppose, as the whole affair is of course bloody and painful. But at the same time, not fighting often results in much worse. What happens when a Hitler, Mussolini or Stalin comes to power? Because of these same apathetic people, not much, unfortunately... They're warmed up to it like the metaphorical frog in slowly boiling water, and their only hope is someone else coming along to bail them out of their problem before it goes worldwide (and for the US I think our problems are already worldwide...). That's where the total lack of responsibility really comes back to bite us all, caring and apathetic alike, and it bites back hard.

Like Stalin said, and I paraphrase, a single death is a tragedy. A million deaths, is a statistic. And I'm left wondering, were those millions of people Stalin himself had killed, too ignorant to foresee what was going to become of them? Or did they just not care anymore?

One thing is for sure: this modern age we all are living in is an age of extremes. We have opportunities for benefit from technology like never before, but also obstacles and tragedies like we have never before experienced. More than any other time this is when every person should learn the importance of personal responsibility. Depending on others has become increasingly dangerous when there are billions of people on Earth and no assurance of who we are even depending on.

Originally posted by hooper
Uh, the fact that a jetplane full of jet fuel travelling 500mph just crashed into one of the world's largest buildings almost a quarter of a mile above street level. I think there may be a reason or two in that scenario to account for some random loud sudden noises.

I realize we could go in circles for as long as you want to give these non-answers, but I'm not going to.

This was in my last post:

If you want to talk about known facts, it is a known fact that many of the explosions witnesses talked about, were experienced in the basements and other parts of the buildings that were far removed from the impacts and fires. Firefighters were saying there were secondary devices. FBI officials were on CNN that morning saying they believed there was another truck bomb in the basement. There is recorded police radio transmissions where a policeman is reporting witnessing a vehicle exploding after seeing two men get out and run from it. None of those things have ever been explained, and there is MORE THAN ENOUGH information from all of that to suspect YES, it COULD have been a freaking series of bombs. This has never been debunked, and saying you don't give a damn what was causing them is not a debunking unless you are a very confused individual.

And you ignored it utterly. And then you say I'm JUMPING to a conclusion?

That's not much of a damned jump if you ask me, when they were talking about bombs in the buildings on TV that morning, only to have the issue never mentioned again.

Deafening silence. That's all we got from the media, from the government, and that's all I'm getting now from you. Deafening silence when I ask what was causing them. Apparently it's someone else's responsibility to prove what caused them to you, and until someone puts the bombs back together from dust you're just going to assume they were caused by "insert unknown explanation here that relates vaguely to the planes and fires" despite what everyone was saying about them being bombs.

You know what the name of this game you're playing is? It's called denial. And you can do it until the day you die, just like the people who died thinking Copernicus was a fool. It's a disorder, from being unable to cope with uncomfortable information. Have fun with it. I've demonstrated thoroughly enough that you can't explain the explosions and there's more than enough circumstantial evidence to reasonably suspect them to have been explosives/bombs.