Hatred for a "left wing Congress" ends in shootout in Oakland

This just another example of how confused people become and some of them just sort of "snap".

Confusion reigns supreme in the U.S. of A.

Meanwhile, the mid-term election period is heating up and so people begin to get on the bandwagon of whatever party "speaks" to them the most.

When all else fails, bring emotion into the mix. Sensationalize things that best push the agenda of the party that wants to maintain or gain control.

OP, I stumbled across another thread you recently posted. I don't doubt the sincerity of your beliefs. I just, IMHO, think you are fooled and an unwitting tool.

No offense, friend.........

reply to post by drwizardphd


No, what I said is absolutely valid.

The man went on a shooting spree because he was under the threat of arrest.

The cop pulling him over is doing so for a suspending license, but Williams DOES NOT KNOW THAT going into the situation.

Therefore he escalates to all out warfare.

Think about what you just wrote.

If he was already convicted of the three strikes rule, HE WOULD ALREADY BE IN PRISON

Williams had probably done something he thought would get him into trouble (or he had drugs on him at the time) so he figured it was game over. He didn't know it was for his plates.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

No, what I said is absolutely valid.

The man went on a shooting spree because he was under the threat of arrest.

The cop pulling him over is doing so for a suspending license, but Williams DOES NOT KNOW THAT going into the situation.

Therefore he escalates to all out warfare.

Think about what you just wrote.

If he was already convicted of the three strikes rule, HE WOULD ALREADY BE IN PRISON

Williams had probably done something he thought would get him into trouble (or he had drugs on him at the time) so he figured it was game over. He didn't know it was for his plates.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

Not for nothing, you right on the money with this one.

So imagine if there wasnt no 3rd Strike rule for non-violent crimes or anything that isn't a off-the-wall crime

Would have this still happened? I think not

reply to post by kyred

OP, I stumbled across another thread you recently posted. I don't doubt the sincerity of your beliefs. I just, IMHO, think you are fooled and an unwitting tool.

Which thread? You left me hanging.

I really don't think I am fooled or tooled, I just do this with these guys to keep their crap in check. I know all about the "left right paradigm", and the corporate masters, NWO, bankers, etc, I try to balance all the " government/Obama/democrats=bad.

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip


obama democrats and government in general are bad.

if you can't see that yet, you got some pretty big blinders on.

reply to post by mnemeth1

The cop pulling him over is doing so for a suspending license, but Williams DOES NOT KNOW THAT going into the situation. Therefore he escalates to all out warfare.

Going into a situation with a pistol, shotgun, and rifle, wearing body armor. This was premeditated violence. Luckily the cops pulled him over before he was to unleash on innocent bystanders.

Dad "Son, if you bring home another bad grade you'll be on restriction."

Son "Then I'll just shoot all my teachers."

Originally posted by 12GaugePermissionSlip
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

The cop pulling him over is doing so for a suspending license, but Williams DOES NOT KNOW THAT going into the situation. Therefore he escalates to all out warfare.

Going into a situation with a pistol, shotgun, and rifle, wearing body armor. This was premeditated violence. Luckily the cops pulled him over before he was to unleash on innocent bystanders.

Dad "Son, if you bring home another bad grade you'll be on restriction."

Son "Then I'll just shoot all my teachers."

You're right that cops are premeditatedly violent because they load up with shotguns, rifles, and body armor every day.

Someone should pull cops over and arrest them before they hurt someone.

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Think about what you just wrote.

If he was already convicted of the three strikes rule, HE WOULD ALREADY BE IN PRISON

Of course he would. I quoted in my earlier post that he had 2 strikes and firing on the officers constituted his third. I think you may be struggling to understand what I wrote.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Williams had probably done something he thought would get him into trouble (or he had drugs on him at the time) so he figured it was game over. He didn't know it was for his plates.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

Right.

And somehow this absolves him of his crime? He got into the car wearing a bullet proof vest and carrying three firearms. He then recklessly drove his vehicle through traffic. This man knew what he was trying to do. He went out that day to kill someone. Maybe it wasn't originally going to be a police officer, but its quite obvious his intentions were murderous.

You can dodge and weave all you want, but the simple fact is that there are unbalanced individuals who are motivated to kill people by political means. They exist on both sides of the spectrum, so let's not pretend this is a right-wing phenomenon.

However, outright denying any shred of pre-meditation and claiming that the entire ordeal is the fault of "Laws created by democrats" is disingenuous at best and downright retarded at worst. You are revealing your partisanship, whether you realize it or not.

reply to post by drwizardphd


I'm not dodging anything, in fact YOU are the one doing the dodging by not acknowledging the fact he was under the threat of arrest at the time. He could not have known what the cop was pulling him over for, so he assumed the worst.

I'm not saying he's innocent.

I'm not saying he did a good thing.

I'm not defending his attack against police.

I'm simply pointing out that he waged war because he thought he had nothing left to lose.

That's why he did it.

Not because he was some kind of Paul Revere revolutionary.



[edit on 20-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

Nasty business all around.

Some of you may remember this little tidbit from the other day:

Oakland's police chief is making some dire claims about what his force will and will not respond to if layoffs go as planned.

Chief Anthony Batts listed exactly 44 situations that his officers will no longer respond to and they include grand theft, burglary, car wrecks, identity theft and vandalism. He says if you live and Oakland and one of the above happens to you, you need to let police know on-line.

Some 80 officers were to be let go at midnight last night if a last-minute deal was not reached. That's about ten percent of the work force...

The Oakland City Council voted June 25 to eliminate the positions to help close the city's $32.5 million funding gap...

Expect to see more madness across the nation as unsustainable municipal budgets are slashed. They are no longer cutting fat, they are cutting *bone* and it will be open season for all sorts of insanity once depserate people realize how thin police forces are stretched.

But of course, despite the basic service cuts, taxes will be raised...the big banks must be bailed out at all costs, pensions must be paid, interest on lavish debts must be paid, the Pentagon needs to buy sprocket wrenches for $900 a pop and millionaires need their social security...meanwhile, who cares about policemen and teachers...

Welcome to the freakin' thunderdome.





[edit on 7/20/10 by silent thunder]

This is hilarious. By the third post, it has already degenerated into "Dems vs. Repubs!"

They have got you all right where they want you, it couldnt be any easier.

reply to post by mnemeth1

I'm simply pointing out that he waged war because he thought he had nothing left to lose. That's why he did it.

Maybe that's why you would do it, but I don't believe you can read his mind. For all we know he was going to have the guns cleaned.....at midnight......hundreds of miles away from home. We will have to wait to find out what was in the white binder marked "California".

Originally posted by mnemeth1


I'm not defending his attack against police.

I'm simply pointing out that he waged war because he thought he had nothing left to lose.

That's why he did it.

Not because he was some kind of Paul Revere revolutionary.

Well, in this interesting little scenario, neither one of us can be 100% sure that we are correct.

We don't know the true reason he decided to open fire on the officers, we only know that he did.

What we also know is that:

1. He was wearing a bullet proof vest - This is a pretty clear indication that he was under the assumption that he would be shot at on this particular day.

2. He was carrying a pistol, a shotgun and a rifle on him at the time. I know plenty of people who carry weapons with them regularly, but I don't know any who carry three fully loaded firearms in their car. If he was only carrying one weapon it could be argued that he had self defense in mind, but with three weapons it's pretty clear he was looking for a fight.

3. He chose to drive recklessly with a suspended license. This is something stupid people do all the time. However, given the circumstances, the argument could also be made that he was looking for police attention.


Taking these facts into account, you have some pretty solid evidence that the shooting was premeditated, and not simply a gut reaction to the officers pulling him over. Whether he chose to don the armor and weapons because he was pissed off about leftist government is entirely up to interpretation. However given his mother's statement about his state of mind, that would seem to be the most plausible explanation.

The man was looking for trouble, I don't think there is a rational argument that can be made against that. Normal people do not carry three loaded weapons and wear body armor when they go out for a Sunday drive.

There is nothing truly left wing happening in this country. There's very conservative with big government (democrats) and super crazy nuts conservative with big government (republicans)

People are so delusional from listening to these radio and tv people it's ridiculous.

And of course hate speech incites the masses. That's why fascists have used it forever. (so have communists and monarchists, etc... but what we are dealing with in this country is out of control destructive capitalism and the rise of fascism, exhibited by both parties to a certain degree but republicans more blatantly)

I'm so glad it is coming to this, it is the only way. Gonna get some liberals.

reply to post by drwizardphd


So your argument is, he intentionally drove around with the intent of trying to find a cop to pull him over so he could have a shootout with police.

Wouldn't it be easier for him to simply walk into a police department and open fire?

Why not save himself the trouble of getting in a car and simply call the police asking them to come to his house?

Your argument is illogical.

reply to post by mnemeth1

So your argument is, he intentionally drove around with the intent of trying to find a cop to pull him over so he could have a shootout with police.

No, he clearly stated:

Maybe it wasn't originally going to be a police officer, but its quite obvious his intentions were murderous.

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip


Well he may have had murderous intentions, but clearly this has nothing to do with his political ideology as was put forth originally.

The notion that he intentionally armed himself in order to wage a personal revolutionary war is ridiculous.

If he wanted to have a shootout with cops, doing it in his car is the worst place one could chose.

Of course, this occurred in Oakland, where there is no law. So if I lived in Oakland, I'd be armed in the same manner.

Since the cops will not come unless the crime is violent, it makes perfect sense to load up on weaponry.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

I'm not dodging anything, in fact YOU are the one doing the dodging by not acknowledging the fact he was under the threat of arrest at the time. He could not have known what the cop was pulling him over for, so he assumed the worst.

I'm not saying he's innocent.

I'm not saying he did a good thing.

I'm not defending his attack against police.

I'm simply pointing out that he waged war because he thought he had nothing left to lose.

That's why he did it.

Not because he was some kind of Paul Revere revolutionary.



[edit on 20-7-2010 by mnemeth1]

He may have waged war because he had nothing left to lose, but as has been pointed out already he was wearing a bullet proof vest and carrying 3 loaded firearms. Maybe you're unfamiliar with the laws but once you are convicted of a felony you lose your 2nd amendment rights so driving around with firearms in his possession was the felony that would have given him his 3rd strike and you can bet he damned well knew he was going away if the officer got up to his window. Now I don't like to generalize or stereotype but I think most rational people can concede that a man with 2 felonies under his belt who decides to don body armor and carry loaded firearms is not out for a Sunday drive with the missus to take in the beautiful scenery and i ts not a stretch of logic to assume he was up to no good.

reply to post by peter vlar


maybe you are unfamiliar with the situation in Oakland regarding law enforcement.