Stock broker friend of mine, says all traders are buying land, gold, silver....

Originally posted by mordant1

The real issue is why would you allow anyone to take what is justifyably yours?
If by tradition or otherwise, gold maintains its value why do you give anyone the right and allow them to take what they want from you?
Discussing what the gummint lets you earn and keep is just madness and the very basis of why they are doing what they are currently

[edit on 19-7-2010 by mordant1]

The "gummint" made gold ownership illegal in the past (and had everyone turn in their gold), what makes you think it won't happen again if it becomes convenient for the government? If you have a piece of paper saying you are entitled to gold it may not be worth much if SHTF. I think that is the point dominicus was trying to make. You are right though, don't allow anyone, especially the government to steal from you. Unfortunately too many people put too much trust in their government. The safest option would be to own physical gold in an overseas vault, preferably Switzerland.

I am reminded of the rich Cubans who obeyed their government which disallowed them to spend their funds outside of Cuba. They were good little patriots until the government decided to confiscate all their funds. I don't place the US government on much of a moral high ground over the Cuban government.

reply to post by mordant1


You are mistaken. I dont care to "benefit" from the long con. And I am pretty sure my comment on the "wary of the buy messages" makes it clear I know we arent intended to win in the markets. In another thread I flat out said,

"the free market was intended to produce excellence and value. The market we have is designed to allow the skimming of value by those who contribute nothing of value."

Its also why I am not on the gold bandwagon. Our currency may well be going down the toilet. I just dont personally think doing what we are being propagandized to do is in our best interests.

And in regard to GreenBicMan, I think you have him pegged wrong. I would not do his job even if I took the time to learn it. Because of my ethical feelings about skimming value and adding none. But, I do not think he is evil. I do value his knowledge of the "game as it is being played." He is good at what he does. But I do not really think he is heartless and soulless. Chomsky said in one of his works, I forget which, something to the effect of,

"The most highly indoctrinated are often the ones used as spokespeople."

They dont use people who know its a con to con us, generally, they use people who believe in the con to con people. No one makes a better sales person than the person who loves and believes in the product being sold.

A lot of good people are caught up in the dream, at all levels. There are people at the bottom levels who would love to be in the shoes of the people at the top who are sucking this country dry. You are right about that, that our own greed and avarice are the lever being used to pry this country apart, and bleed it dry.

The people at the very top will move on to the next country. America will be stripped down like a junked car parked in a ghetto. Our military might will smuggled out and sold off for profit like the USSRs was. Our arable land is already being sold, to China. We will be left with next to nothing. No military, huge debt, and our Constitution will be in a tatters if it survives at all. No one in the world will feel sorry for us, because we the country are being scapegoated for what the parasites are doing here. The parasites themselves will be welcomed in with open arms because they will be bringing them the jobs and prosperity we used to have.

The reason they are spending like crazy, (imho) is because they have no intention of rebuilding America. They are just figuring out ways to drain every penny they can setting themselves up for future success elsewhere in the world. We will be left with the bill. And nothing to show for it.

Just my opinion.

[edit on 19-7-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by slightlyskeptical



"Best way to lose your ass in investing is buying the things that have done well in the recent past. Just look at real estate, dot-coms, tulips, etc. It happens EVERY time. I promise you in 5 years those 10 year returns will all be negative. History does repeat itself but not in the way you are thinking. "

It's ok, I understand what you are saying, but the reality is gold is no where near bubble levels yet, and has yet to even begin to get anywhere close to mania levels.

I've been in gold for 8 years, so $100 or 200 swings literally mean nothing to me as it is the long term which gold is good for.

People will be calling bubble at 1300, at 1650, at 2500...and should we go on to much higher numbers which is very likely, same thing. Bubble at 5000, bubble at 6000, bubble at 10,000. People have been saying the same thing since gold was literally at 400-500.

When it starts going parabolic, and there are more than ten threads on ATS going on about how great gold is, that's when I will sell.


edit: sorry, stuffed up the reply/quote thing

[edit on 19-7-2010 by cloudbreak]

[edit on 19-7-2010 by cloudbreak]

Originally posted by netwarrior
The most valuable metals in the beginning of the collapse will not be gold or silver. It will be brass, lead, and copper. Properly assembled, of course.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

As it has been in other countries that saw it all fall apart.

I recommend body armor as well, with ballistic plates.

I am hoping I will need none of it, but with events like the LA riots
I am pretty sure somebody will need it.

If you can get out of the cities before it goes down I recommend it.

Out of sight is out of mind.

Good Luck to you all !

Originally posted by FrostForests
I've thought a bit about the land issue, and ask myself this...

If, in the SHTF, situation X scenario, sure, lots of land is great. But wouldn't you expect if the gov were to have a list of individuals owning relatively large parcels of land, they would be the first target?

Some truth in this, and it is part of Agenda 21 to take back most of
the land and cram the ppl into smart growth zones.

During the great depression ppl just lived where they could.

The smart homeless these days know the rest of us do not want to
see them so they make sure they are out of sight.

That will be the way to make it thru what is coming.

Stay hidden and when the paddy wagons come to round ppl
up stay out of sight and be ready to leave on short notice.

Originally posted by mordant1
reply to post by anubis9311

 

For real, any 911 call will just tell them to come-n-get it!
I will predict that most reading this thread will have as their final vision on this earth, a uniform that they paid for

This is exactly right, what will come will be guns and uniforms that
the tax payers paid for to haul them away.

They will be hauled to Hr 645.

HR 645 - new giant FEMA camps

It is stuck in committee for now, but it is all ready to go.

They just need to get us to do something collectively stupid to
trigger them defending themselves from the mob.

Why do you think they do things "in our face" that look like
they are trying to upset certain elements ?

They will keep cranking it up too.

All I can say is be prepared, just like Katrina they will be coming
for the guns, they trampled all over the 2nd amendment then
and totally got away with it.

Good Luck to you all !

reply to post by cloudbreak


I didn't expect you to agree that gold is already in a bubble. But in my view it is. I remember a few years back how my $250,000 house was going to be worth a million in 5 years. Wishful thinking does not equal reality. There is no fundamental basis for gold to go higher from here and based on fundamentals alone, gold should be back at $400. Speculation comes and goes and when it goes, industrial demand will be the only support for gold.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

very well said

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


"There is no fundamental basis for gold to go higher from here and based on fundamentals alone, gold should be back at $400. Speculation comes and goes and when it goes, industrial demand will be the only support for gold."

---------------------------------------

Forgive anything that might sound harsh, but the profound ignorance of your statement that I quote above, it's almost too much to address, since you're obviously miles behind the curve. (You could try a few pages in this thread, lots of replies do in fact share good info.)

But, I wanted to comment, mainly because after 11 pages in this thread, I'm certainly not astounded by ignorance anymore when it comes to a total lack of knowledge concerning precious metals. Reply, after reply, people who do not "get it". No, they don't own any (naturally). Sure, they can talk to someone who does own it, and who understands it, but instead of humbly begging-off, since they have no experience of it, they have their opinions to share. Recommendation: Try listening, to learn something, when you don't know anything about a topic.

I'm sure I'm not alone, but what we're seeing is a lot of knee-jerk reaction, people spouting off their programming, and trying to find objections whenever they encounter that rare bird who understands gold.

Thankfully, there are quite a few who are open enough, and I applaud those who will consider ideas that are new, without resorting to non-productive nonsense.

Speaking of utter nonsense..."industrial demand will be the only support for gold." My goodness, even the shills for gold suppression would never say anything that ridiculous. Or perhaps you were just thinking far into the future, Federation of Planets and all?

"Industrial demand" for gold has always played a bit part, it's not a relevant issue, in comparison to 6,000 years of history, where gold has played the role of thee most significant commodity, ever (until the rise of oil in the last century). This is because gold is "real" money, in a world where ALL governments have gone to fiat.

This is the huge backdrop in this play, the context if you will, of the current situation with gold. The whole world has gone mad with funny money, and no one has ever been fool enough, to assert that it would go on forever, not even the vile John Maynard Keynes, who is given credit for really getting the modern ball rolling with universal fiat.

Another critical thing to always consider, is not what our humble neighbors (again, irrelevant). It's always been the opinions of people who MATTER that count, and by this I mean the wealthy, the banksters, those who have spoken loudest by virtue of the fact that they control almost all of this despised commodity. Why would this be?

This could lead into a whole other subset of objections, namely, that category that proclaims severe confiscation risk by the government, as if it was an argument "not" to own gold. Use a bit of logic people! It's precisely the OPPOSITE that would be true. The mere fact that governments have confiscated in the past, that they control gold tightly in the present, should lead you to suspect, at the very least, that this thing called gold is extremely important to "them". Even if you refuse to look into "why" this is, at least concede that it could itself be a better indication of true value, than opinions from those who have no clue, and are too lazy to do the research.

Do I dare ask for any kind of data backing up this choice statement?

"...based on fundamentals alone, gold should be back at $400."

Really? "Fundamentals"? Precisely what would those be? "$400"?? You do mean US Dollars, don't you? You do realize that US Dollars do NOT indicate the "value" of gold, again, it's exactly BACKWARDS. It is gold that indicates the relative LACK of value in those dollars, that can't seem to purchase the same amount of gold that they used to.

I could use the word "elementary", but it might come of as condescending, and that would not be my intent. And when I say "you", believe me, I do not mean "you" alone, but the legion of those out there who are so far behind the curve, it's almost not even worth an attempt to educate them. But notice, there are many here in the ATS community that DO seem to care, and will share their experience, even if it should be despised.

SO, how do I know anything at all? Is it just because I read more history? Listen, I work this, day in, and day out. For the past dozen years, as the metals market went bullish, I have been in the trenches. There is a world out there that would shock you, at your level, if you were to encounter it first-hand. It's a world of absolute rubbish and lies from the media and the government. A constant "soothing" message, in spite of it all, and all along, MASSIVE, chronic SCARCITY when it comes to precious metals, that boggles the mind at times.

Here's a reality check for you. How many know that it would take just ONE billionaire (and there are thousands in the world), to "corner" the teenie, tiny, silver market? Just ONE. It's already happened of course, when Warren Buffet made his play some years ago. Much more to this story, but if you should ever get a chance to "do the math", you might be very surprised.

And then you have the naysayers, who can boldly step forward, after confronting this info, and say, "But the silver price is low. This alone proves it's low value." Really? Have you ever actually tried to put your hands on any significant amount of it? Even a "small" investor, trying to buy a few million dollars worth of physical, will be greeted by frustration. Why? Because there isn't any real, "physical" out there, to speak of. All the coin dealers know this, and it's a time bomb, when it explodes, the silver price will go to the moon (along with gold).

Google up "Jason Hommel" for starters, if anyone is interested in reality. Yes, he now owns a coin shop in California, but long before he did, he was sounding the alarm, even announcing a "preposterous" silver price of $8,000/oz. in the future. It is just crazy...until you decide to learn some "fundamentals" about it.

The misinformation out there, that people swallow, it's amazing. I hope some will ignore the nonsense, and find the FACTS. They're "out there"...

JR

reply to post by JR MacBeth


JR, very well said. The profound ignorance when it comes to gold - particularly on a message board like this where supposedly people are a bit more open to countering smoke and mirrors and what's going on in the world - is kind of reassuring in some ways.

It simply confirms gold is nowhere near a bubble.

These same people will be parrotting the banker shills and ponzi masters view that gold is a barbaric relic and overpriced throughout the 4 to 10 years left in this secular bull. Sadly, it will be to their own financial cost - and by the time they actually do get it, they will wish they did try to learn.

You can only go so far in trying to talk sense, but people will always have opposing views. I guess that's good as it does take opposing views to make a market. The very fact gold is in a secular bull market and has every fundamental reason behind it to say we are nowhere near a bubble or a top, will only become clearer as time goes on.

I am not saying gold cannot enter a bubble, but when or if it does, it will be the last, final bubble after everything else that could possibly ever be in a bubble goes pop. The only thing is, it is not going to drop down to $400. It may pop from say 10,000 to 3000 or something, who knows as precise price levels are too hard to really predict...but the only certainty in today's world is that gold is being hoarded and sought after, largely behind the scenes, as many know (as is evident by the image below) the global paper games are out of control, and gold is the only ultimate currency when the paper bubble bursts.

edit: to fix image

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f731ac7f2039.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 20-7-2010 by cloudbreak]

[edit on 20-7-2010 by cloudbreak]

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
reply to post by cloudbreak

 

I didn't expect you to agree that gold is already in a bubble. But in my view it is. I remember a few years back how my $250,000 house was going to be worth a million in 5 years. Wishful thinking does not equal reality. There is no fundamental basis for gold to go higher from here and based on fundamentals alone, gold should be back at $400. Speculation comes and goes and when it goes, industrial demand will be the only support for gold.

It is ok we will have to agree to disagree on some points, though you are quite correct on the speculation aspects of what you are saying (except of the industrial demand bit).

The only thing is really, gold is actually money, a currency of first and last resort. It is being manipulated down for several reasons, but this manipulation is slowly, gradually, surely, coming unhinged.

Now I'm not so tunnel-visioned as to declare gold is the only thing you should own, nor that it will never enter bubble-territory...but between paper and gold, well I will choose gold at this point in history. When I start seeing a parabolic blow-off in gold, or mania (as in the tulip mania you mentioned earlier), yes then I would start thinking about getting out of some on my positions. But I will always have some physical, as at the very least it is insurance or something you can pass on to others with zero counter-party risk or vultures wanting a slice of the pie.

Anyway, besides zerohedge and gata.org which are bother good places for those unsure about gold to start reading, renowned perma bull Jim Sinclair is worth reading daily at jsmineset.com just for another take on things. Not saying he is always right or should be blindly followed, but he does have clue and is pretty smart.

I found a recent statement of his worth noting:

"If gold market participants were all tank drivers their machine would have but one gear – reverse. The smallest book in the world is the book of confirmed gold price visionaries.

Someone says deflation and the long gold positions hit the fan. Gold banks make their short covers even though the fuel in Bernanke’s Helicopter Money Drop is founded in the dreaded use of the “D” word.

People are so fixed in present time that they cannot picture a euro back towards its high and the dollar back towards its low because the financial condition of the USA dwarfs the problems of Europe.

Hyperinflation is always the product of a loss of confidence in currency resulting in a “Currency Produced Cost-Push Hyperinflation.”

No one with a synapse talking to another synapse expects a “Demand-Pull Inflation.”

All hyperinflation in modern history has occurred for one reason, and one reason only. That is loss of confidence in currency.

Loss of confidence in a currency can be brought about by many reasons, but there is one constant factor. When hyperinflation has occurred in modern history EVERY economy involved was decimated as and when it occurred.

It has never been caused by “Demand-Pull,” but always and without exception caused by “Currency Induced Cost Push Hyperinflation.”

The nonsense being spread by the F-TV taking heads is that the Fed is out of ammunition to fight deflation. That is raving BS. The Fed can and will do QE to infinity which is restricted as a tool by nothing whatsoever. The ECB will not be far behind the Fed.

Argue all you want, but this is exactly what is going to happen starting now. Stop being glib. Study hyperinflation in modern times listed below before you ask me to explain it one more time.

What is out there today QE wise is enough to result in hyperinflation as confidence falls in currencies due to two characteristics, QE and volatility.

Try meditating on the concept of “Currency Induced Cost Push Hyperinflation,” rather than loading your pants over gold banks manipulation full of sound and fury, but meaningless in the great scheme of things.

Examples of hyperinflation in modern times:

Angola, Argentina, Belarus, Bolivia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Congo, Free City of Danzig, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Japan, Madagascar, Mozambique, Nicaragua, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Russia, Taiwan, Turkey, Ukraine, United States, Yugoslavia and Zimbabwe"

The oligarchies, along with their paper pushing financial engineers desperately rely on the general populace to support of their individual currency regimes, especially while massive transfers of wealth are taking place right under their noses...thus, the strategic dumbing-down on all topics Golden. At risk of offending...this thread, along with most others (Gold related) is a glowing testament to their overall success.

By the way, the bottom for this latest BB inspired shakedown occurred today at 1175 +change [mho].

There remains a small window of opportunity sub-1200...again, mho.

Not investment advice.

reply to post by cloudbreak


Thank you Cloudbreak, a fantastic full-color contribution from Trace Mayer, that says far more I'm afraid than the average bear is going to ever appreciate. I think it's worth noting that the word chosen here is "evaporate". Very fitting, since there is virtually no "substance" to the smoke-and-mirrors megalith that we think of as the global economy.

And if we tune in to the info on cap-and-trade, they're not quite done yet! Probably some might notice this upside-down pyramid form, and wonder if such a thing was ever supposed to be sustainable. Here's where common sense should do just fine, NO, a world economy such as this was never intended to be sustainable at all. It is there, as such, in order to extract tremendous wealth for the very few. It is clearly destined to tumble, but then, if you were in a position to control much of the growth, and contractions, and even "when" such a thing should come down, you would perhaps end up extracting the maximum wealth possible.

What would be left all around, after the tower falls, would be chaos, misery, perhaps even full-blown war. Yes, history repeats itself, but as the greed factor exploded, making for such an enormous edifice, when this one comes down, it will be like nothing history has seen before.

But thankfully, the "base" of this upside-down pyramid (really the apex, when the pyramid is righted), is quite solid. From this "foundation", the world can always "recover", because when the dream is gone, when everyone knows that it has all been a big lie, they won't accept mere "promises" anymore. In a recovery period, we will refuse to accept paper (or smoke!), and we will logically demand something tangible, again, such has it ever been.

I don't know how much longer our masters can keep this charade going, it's gone on longer than many would have ver guessed. But it can't go on forever. And that should be the logical chink in the armor of those who perhaps unconsciously believe that the scheme can somehow go on indefinitely. Of course, in their minds, "dollars" = money. In their minds, the picture has been painted for them, "money" is green paper, and gold is a mere historical curiosity. For them, they hear such diabolical words like "inflation", and seldom realize that that word was chosen for them, in order to distract them from the reality of a currency that is actually shrinking in purchasing power. It could easily remind one of "1984", where the very opposite meanings are chosen, and "freedom is slavery".

I hope that some who are reading this thread will stop and ponder your valuable contribution. I do think there is hope, some may choose to "wake up", although this thread seems to highlight how brainwashed the average person is. Oh well.

JR

reply to post by OBE1


"...the strategic dumbing-down on all topics Golden. At risk of offending...this thread, along with most others (Gold related) is a glowing testament to their overall success."

---------------------------------------

Very well stated OBE1. However, I think too many will pass over a critical word that you chose to use, "strategic". Yes, I agree completely, this "dumbing down" when it comes to the true nature of money, is not a coincidence, not something that just happens, and yet, it's a problem that seems to go back a very long time.

I'm reminded of this famous quote of John Adams:

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in the Constitution or confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation."

Such is how he saw it so long ago, and such is how it remains today. And yet, many will likely read this quote, and wonder how "perplexities, confusion and distress" can have anything to do with "ignorance of the nature of coin..." If someone is reading this, and you are wondering what this American Founding Father was talking about, then you owe it to yourself to dig in, and do a bit of research. It could be "that" important.

To elucidate just a bit, the "distress" Adams referred to could stand a bit of updating. Perhaps we can insert other words, such as "crime", or poverty, corrupt politicians, pork-barrel insanity, hidden agendas, etc.

As far as the "nature of coin", perhaps we could update and just use the term "money". Ah, but here is a problem, because most will hear that word, and begin thinking exactly according to programming. Some will literally think of green paper. Others might recall something they may have learned in school, and come out with something like "medium of exchange". Better, but still incomplete.

Of course, I don't want to come off as the arrogant professor. Everyone can go looking for this info, and can find volumes of it. But I would try to keep in the back of my mind a bit of what you mention OBE1. People need to see that the reason for their ignorance regarding this critical subject, could be by design. Yes, we have been targets of a strategic dumbing-down, as you put it. That being said, one must tread carefully, since much of the info that you will encounter is pure bunk.

But there is good info in this thread. Ignore the replies with mere opinions. Ignore those who admit they don't own gold (obviously!). Ignore those who haven't a clue, heck, they don't even have a rich uncle they could question for a more relevant perspective. But there are some who have shared that they do own gold. That they have followed it for years. That perhaps they even deal with it, professionally. It would be from these that more plausible info could be reasonably expected, amidst all the ignorance and downright disinfo that you can trip over.

Another thanks to the OP for getting a very important discussion going, I hope others will star and flag also. And yes, it is VERY important, as I hope others will agree after reading the John Adams quote. This issue is foundational, and while much of the economic misery that surrounds us is due to our master's abuse of their power, it can also be said that it is our own ignorance playing it's part. If people understood "coin and credit", we would never have allowed them to get this stranglehold on us to begin with.

JR

I believe this is true aswell. I have been stocking up on essentials and recently purchased a large amount of land and am in the process of setting it up to run fully independent. my advice to all those out there is to purchase non perishable foods, land(i purchased upwards of 2000 acres), invest in solar panels and learn how to operate fix and maintain them(as they are an endless generator.), stockpile guns and ammuniton and again with the knowledge on creation reloading ammo and maintaining them, i forgot to put up top which is a no brainer is water(wells and what not), and fortified housing(underground shelters, ventilation, security, etc...)

Anyways thats what i have been doing and so far I have completed the land, solar, well, started on the house, guns, and food.

Gold is nice but its not my main priority.

Thank you for reading and i hope you will follow these ideas.

reply to post by JR MacBeth

Thank you for raising the quality of this thread.
I keep reading about people recommending we all build foxholes, invest in an armory with sentry posts, and stock the bunker with non-perishables and water filtration.
Not so much about radiation detection. Yet.

Question: Can Silver Certificates be redeemed for silver, and if so, would this be a good time to do so? I would think, yes.

reply to post by JR MacBeth


Why gold? Why silver? Why diamond and pretty shiny rocks? Why do these store value across time adistance and culture?

Because pretty sparklers and shiners get the girls. That's it, that's only it, that's only ever been it. That is the basis of their traditional value, before industrial times. FORget all ratios and costs and indicies and blah blah blahs, those are mere derivatives. Whats been of value traditionally are those things that attract the girls and also support their brats. These are the things men find work reliably in their trade for 'access', and the better the effect, the more it costs. And in the future, the value of gold and silver will return to it's foundations being all about the girl and what she thinks is pretty enough in a drab world to say yes for..

reply to post by Stewie


I appreciate your kind words, thank you. Always good to hear from folks in Texas, a whole lot more common sense in that state than a dozen all put together farther east. Sorry, Western bias I guess.

Unfortunately, "Silver Certificates" are yet one more example of broken promises by our government. Yes, you can read the promises on these old bills that circulated 50 years ago, and the statements sound ironclad. It really sounds as if you should be able to trade those in for silver. But no, you can't.

Back in 1964-1965, the US took most of the silver out of the hands of the public. The paper dollar bills called "Silver Certificates" were redeemed, but only up to a specified deadline. Millions of them were turned in by the deadline, but millions more never made it in time.

Today, the government's postion always seems to be, "Tough luck!" Or worse, we could say something like, "Hey, you f--d up, you trusted us!"

Sad, but true. And while today's currency promises no silver, it does have a rather bothersome statement regarding "legal tender". Make no mistake, such a statement is hugely tyrannical. It amounts to saying you MUST take this paper for any debts owed you, whether you like it or not.

Well, the fact is, we DON'T have to just take their paper. What we can do, is "take their paper", and buy real money with it, gold, and silver. And I personally believe silver is actually the better of the two, but I wouldn't want to hijack this thread. I think the OP is good enough, as is, to keep a lively, and productive discussion going on this important issue.

Thanks again for you kind words. (By the way, that old paper money is still worth more than today's paper...don't let the coin dealers steal it from you!)

JR

reply to post by JR MacBeth

What a shame. They are pretty to look at....

My grandpa and grandma taught me how to live through a depression by what they hoarded. Besides money stashed everywhere, they had toilet paper and soap in mass quantities.
And of course, a good sized garden.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

reply to post by mordant1


"Why gold? Why silver? Why diamond and pretty shiny rocks? Why do these store value across time adistance and culture?

Because pretty sparklers and shiners get the girls."

---------------------------------------

I knew it wouldn't be long before someone waxed philosophical. Good points Mordant1, maybe this discussion should actually take a step back from all the usual, and go back to basics, and work up from there. You might really have something. Maybe people will be able to relate on a real level.

Yeah, we could always bring up the De Beers cartel if we wanted to talk about diamonds. But, the average bear is going to say, "Beer? Yes, beer. Yes, I am thirsty. Yes, go to frig..." Sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously, you are right on, got the bulls-eye in my opinion, if we want to get down to some basics.

Because no one really cares if some cartel somewhere keeps the price of their products artificially high. Ask the girl what SHE thinks about diamonds. And don't even think about asking for that lovely hand in marriage, if it isn't going to get a nice diamond ring. (Or is that too "old school" these days?)

And aside from the girl, those diamonds do sparkle, and would be preferred over dull rocks anytime. Intrinsic, universally recognized value. Which could apply to gold too.

Which reminds me of one of the biggest "seasonal" components of the gold price. Yeah, you actually got it right on, it is girls, the young ladies of India, who have for thousands of years been adorned with the yellow metal at their weddings. In the precious metals business it's called the "Indian Wedding Season". Of course, around this thread, someone will just dump that into "industrial demand", which is fine I suppose, but no one should ignore the thousands of year old tradition behind it. And for those who have never heard of this, take my word for it, the seasonal demand for the gold going into India is significant.

One of the greats of history once said that the "meek will inherit the earth". I think of these other despised nations sometimes, and wonder if it isn't going to prove true someday. These "third-world" peoples, many retain ancient traditions that will still be going strong long after we're all dead. I don't care if someone thinks we have a Star Trek future, but my bet is that 1,000 years from now, the people of India are going to insist on their gold. Just as the peoples of China continue to insist on their silver, which is important in their culture and tradition.

Could it be Western "arrogance" that so casually (and callously too I might add) sweeps aside all this...thousands of years of tradition, across different cultures, as you point out, in favor of this blatant fraud called paper money? In favor of enriching the most corrupt people that have ever lived, on a scale almost beyond imagination?

Thanks Mordant1 for getting me going again! Great things to ponder. Yes, "getting the girl" as you put it, it could be more relevant to this discussion than some might realize. I hope your perspective encourages readers to consider the fact that this isn't stocks and bonds, derivatives and paper we're talking about when it comes to real things like gold and diamonds. My hat is off to you for injecting some unexpected hard core common sense. Could be exactly what was needed!

JR