Sleep Deprivation — Somnambulists of the World, Unite!

There was a lab study done where the filmed insomniacs during the night. Turns out most insomniacs actually do sleep for most of the night, even though they would argue vehemently that they hadn't gotten a wink of sleep all night. It was only upon being shown the video footage that they were forced to accept that.

The conclusion I draw from that is that they were dreaming they were tossing and turning all night. Dreams are a direct reflection of what you have your attention focused on. This is what causes the OBE scenario, when a person falls directly asleep, skipping the hypnogogic stage, the last thing they were aware of is being in bed in their room. The resulting dream forms around that image.

I've found that I only feel tired if I'm focused on how little sleep I've gotten, and dwell on it. When I have something to do early in the morning and hop out of bed with little sleep focused on that task instead, I don't feel tired at all, even though I've gotten very little sleep.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


hell yeah man. I haven't even had my coffee that I planned, but now I don't need it.

I am a throat chakra master.. lol. It just flows man, i don't stop typing, and often I learn from what I write but I refuse to say I'm a channeler because despite my position I am cautious of those people. ... but it sure seems that way some days. I take little credit for anything and just blame it on some beam from space entering my head...with a combination of life experiences to filter it into different perspectives. I got the astrology for it and the palmistry, I am writer and bitch for delivering messages I guess. Take your complaints up with the aliens. Nah, i'm half joking. I just go on experience man and try my best and try not to say anything misleading or something I don't fully back, even though i try to keep my mind open so its difficult to speak with such conviction but if anything I try to translate that into just expressing possibilities available that I know that I am sharing.. alternative methods and reasons towards putting together a bigger picture. But the writing thing, well thats my own special phenomenon. When i'm on, i'm on baby!!... ok I need a bit of food, i'll pass on the coffee though, i can feel my brain swelling. Deffinately not a good time to sleep.

reply to post by CavemanDD


Well, melatonin is produced in the pineal gland, so there might be some "third eye" contributions going on.

I have always said, if there is one characteristic about myself, I would grant everyone, it's my sleeping patterns. When I go to bed, it takes about ten minutes. Exactly eight hours later, I open my eyes. No alarm needed, plus I have two four-legged "alarms", that provide assist if needed. There is only a ripple down the bed, where my body was. Makes for easy bed making.

The year I had insomnia, my bed the next day looked like 27 football players had slept in. lol. Not a pretty sight. I just stopped making it.

But I do go to bed with TV. I'm picky though. No CNN. Nothing which requires thinking or laughing. I will watch "how to make popsicles", or watch somebody decorate a house. Very unemotional.

Okay here:
When I can't sleep, it's usually because I'm worried about something. Mostly work related. If I can't stop the thoughts, I make a decision. "Are you going to deal with this problem NOW?"

And sometimes I do. I will get up, get dressed at 1:00 a.m. and drive to my office, or whereever I need to go, to do what I need to do. If I make the decision "No, this can wait until morning", then, I put it behind me, knowing tomorrow the issue will be addressed.

(I've told super-insomniacs this before, and their response:
"well, isn't that sweet"). I know it's hard.

Someone has ticked me off.
This will keep me awake. So, I try to deal with it before I go to sleep. If I don't, I will go over it again and again after I get in bed. This doesn't happen oftern, but it's harder to get rid of because it's emotional.

reply to post by The Cusp


Hell yeah! I like that.

Dreaming of the stress of not being able to sleep. I've done that before.

Sleep is treated like a switch which seems to be the problem trying to understand it. Like if I fall asleep for only 45 minutes, i'll wake up feeling like I didnt sleep at all.. like I was just dozing.. meanwhile I could have been sleeping. It seems to me like a transitional sort of thing, in which is dependent on our mental state / awareness. Thanks for that, that's very interesting.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


*sorry to break the flow a little; phone call intervened*


"Could I be so bold as to ask how lack of sleep has affected you as a person?"

It affects your mood, your relationships - it affects everything...

I'm glad you didn't (really) taken offence.

The issue is even deeper than at first may appear: in asking 'Does lack of sleep affect you as a person?' I was thinking about the division between the real 'you' —the person you really are at heart— and the person who may function/act at less than their best. If so, the one of the symptoms could arguably be regarded as metaphysical, in that the person's very mind, even their personality, is being affected.

But then Catch_a_Fire gave the contrary answer:

To be honest im very easy going, it takes a lot to get me annoyed and have a very bright outlook on life (even when i shouldnt) and i get on great with people usually.

So it seems even chronic sleeplessness affects people very differently.

reply to post by pause4thought


I know a few people who get really ratty when they havent had enough sleep, the missus being one of them. She doesnt understand how i can be so normal going for such a long time without sleep.

When i decide to stay up all night to get my body back in check, ill also stay up all the next day and then even have trouble sleeping until early hours the next night, i dont know what it is. Im not hyperactive, and have never had any attention disorders. I was once asked to take part in an overnight sleep clinic, but i point blank refused knowing that i'd be awake and rigged up to a machine all night, thats just not me.

A lack of sleep makes it easier for these sides of us to come out. The lack of sleep is the lack of energy. We go in conservation mode when we're tired.. even listening to people can be irritating, just anything that goes against what we want and it can really irritate us. Make us lazy, miserable... ahh.. all sorts of nice side effects.. that seem to vanish once the body is wide awake and fully charged, and then it some cases it's inverted...whereas the things that caused your irritation cause you delight. Theres a time and place for everything, even a good thing can be a bad thing under the wrong circumstances. When i'm really tired I have a one track mind and just want to be left alone because its simple and doesn't require much attention or analyzing...giving feedback..lending a hand.. lol

Just wondering whether consideration of sleep walking might prove enlightening. Looks interesting:

Sleepwalking, also known as somnambulism, is a sleep disorder belonging to the parasomnia family. Sleepwalkers arise from the slow wave sleep stage in a state of low consciousness and perform activities that are usually performed during the day. These activities can be as benign as sitting up in bed, walking to the bathroom, and cleaning, or as hazardous as cooking, driving, extremely violent gestures, grabbing at hallucinated objects, or even homicide.
Although generally sleepwalking cases consist of simple, repeated behaviours, there are occasionally reports of people performing complex behaviours while asleep, although their legitimacy is often disputed...

...Sleep is categorized into stages of a cycle between REM sleep and NREM sleep. NREM sleep is further divided into four stages: stage 1 (a light sleep period), stage 2 (a consolidated sleep period), and stage 3 and 4 (slow wave sleep periods). This is followed by stage 3, stage 2, stage 1, and a REM period. In normal adults, a cycle will last about 1.5 hours. According to Lavie, Malhotra, and Pillar, "The length and content of sleep cycles change throughout the night as well as with age." Sleepwalking generally occurs during the first third of the night (between 11 p.m. and 1 a.m.) during the slow wave NREM sleep stage. High delta activity within the brain usually accompanies slow wave NREM sleep, and when 20–50% of all activity is delta activity, stage 3 is scored. When delta activity reaches 50% or higher, stage 4 is scored.

I suppose it's unlikely we'll get a poster who's actually engaged in sleep-walking. It brings us back to the importance of different types of sleep, though.

I then came across this gem in the Wiki insomnia article:

Poor sleep quality can occur as a result of sleep apnea or major depression. Poor sleep quality is caused by the individual not reaching stage 3 or delta sleep which has restorative properties. There are, however, people who are unable to achieve stage 3 sleep due to brain damage who lead perfectly normal lives...

One simple tool that I use to sleep with is the paper tool.


So what is the paper tool, as simple as it is, it also requires a lot of discipline to make it work once you have trained your self to see this every night you place your self in a position to sleep when ever you see this in your mind.


This is simple as you lay in bed pick a color that you like but white is the best color that I have used, so as you lay down close your eyes and only see and think of a white clean sheet of paper. Do not think about anything more but only the white paper, read the white paper, that's wright there in nothing on it so think about nothing and let the body just relax. This is difficult at first for your fighting with your mind to shut up.

One you have established a link that white paper equals sleep it is a trigger for your mind to relax and sleep, it also a good way to remove tension or a way to stop transmitting tension through the body.


Good luck with this.

reply to post by CavemanDD

But to me the mind actually affects the body, and anything against your genetics you can try and "evolve" out of.

if I personally discover that I have the ability to evolve out of anything, I'm going to direct my energies towards evolving out of my inability to fly

then I'll try sleep

:-)

That being said, I really do feel my mind affects my body...

I agree - it does - in more ways than one. We may disagree about the particulars - but we agree on that

the mind has the ability to choose - though I have heard that choice is probably the stuff of make believe

but we can choose to do what's best for us one way or another. As far as sleep goes - other than choosing not to have a latte with 2 extra shots of espresso an hour before bedtime - sometimes my body chooses for me

reply to post by CavemanDD

hell yeah man. I haven't even had my coffee that I planned, but now I don't need it.
When i'm on, i'm on baby!!... ok I need a bit of food, i'll pass on the coffee though, i can feel my brain swelling. Deffinately not a good time to sleep.

you're a creative person Caveman - I recognize that flow :-)

I actually have tried much of what you've suggested in previous posts - and a lot of that does help

like I said - it's good advice - I just disagree that it's all about choice and discipline

because if it is - then I am a very bad puppy

:-)

[edit on 7/17/2010 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by pause4thought

I'm glad you didn't (really) taken offence.

:-)

I'm with Catch_a_Fire - I'm pretty easy going - even when I don't sleep

though I do have my moments :-)

The issue is even deeper than at first may appear: in asking 'Does lack of sleep affect you as a person?' I was thinking about the division between the real 'you' —the person you really are at heart— and the person who may function/act at less than their best. If so, the one of the symptoms could arguably be regarded as metaphysical, in that the person's very mind, even their personality, is being affected.

Pause - are you asking if sleep deprivation can lead you directly into an altered state?

if so, then the answer is yes - absolutely

metaphysical? I can't really answer that - but I do know that for me there's a matter of degree - and that sometimes sleeplessness can be useful

for instance - when it comes to creativity. I doubt there are many creative types that would disagree. The mind sometimes can come up with ideas or solutions it might never have stumbled upon had it been getting regular sleep

But that's where things get complicated - it's a fine line. Past a certain point - your ideas aren't really as good as you think they are in the moment - plus you've lost the ability to function and pull them off anyway

When you ask about personality - I think that's an interesting question. Is a person's true personality altered by drinking? Or does the original, true personality give itself permission to do what it really wants to do?

Does an altered state change us - or just allow us to be, see, think and react differently than we normally would?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


You're very creative yourself. Always love your avatars.

Anyways thats all I wanted to say. 4 hours of writing is enough today!...for now.

reply to post by pause4thought


Consuming copious amounts of alcohol before sleeping can also cause a poor quality of sleep.

I think your body is so busy dealing with the alcohol, it doesn't have the chance to do the other things it needs to do.

Tbh, I ended up in a psychiatric emergency services hospital as an outpatient due to insomnia (don't ask, it's sorta embarrassing, to me that is) and well, I learned polyphasic sleep. Thank goodness. I don't want to sleep for 8 hours straight anymore, because we live in EXCITING TIMES! Too bad I owe them $750 though. Gah!

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


ah hell with it, one more comment.

On that note.. I got one related comment.

I was gathering energy for a month straight, at least 30 days of really discplinary things, abstaining from booze, any sexual pleasure, harsh eating, good sleeping, lots of Qi Gong energy cultivation and meditation... situps, pushups... I was a powerhouse, and I felt natural, nothing repressed.. I felt i was on the verge or some metamorphosis if It kept up, every day stronger... I was happy as hell, hyper, full of life, felt i could do anything, you get the picture..

Then st. paddy's day came and its my favourite day of the year, hell with christmas or anything else, i'm not even that irish but paddy's day I wait anxiously for.. and since I missed it this year, I decided to make up for it a few days later... with huge quantities of irish car bombs.

Well they should call em Irish "Chi" bombs.

Because the next day I hit a wall.. all that energy, GONE. And a rough sleep at that...


But I'll say one thing.. when you go to bed, will yourself not to be hung over and it works quite well!!.. totally refuse the reality that you're going to be hung over tomorrow and you may just get off with a morning dizzyness and feeling kind of tired.

Anyways... alcohol seems like a tough thing for the body to break down. Even if I have a few beers or something on a weeknight, the next day I always feel rougher then If I hadn't.

reply to post by CavemanDD


thank you CavemanDD - very much

Anyways thats all I wanted to say. 4 hours of writing is enough today!...for now.

see - now that's discipline

:-)

also - I enjoyed reading - and riding - that train of thought

reply to post by Masinger


Let's get the low-down:

Polyphasic sleep, a term coined by early 20th century psychologist J.S. Szymanski,[1] refers to the practice of sleeping multiple times in a 24-hour period—usually more than two, in contrast to biphasic sleep—and does not imply any particular sleep schedule. The circadian rhythm disorder known as irregular sleep-wake pattern is an example. The term polyphasic sleep is also used by an online community which experiments with ultra-short napping to achieve more time awake each day...

...In crisis and other extreme conditions, people may not be able to achieve the recommended eight hours of sleep per day. Systematic napping may be considered necessary in such situations.
Dr. Claudio Stampi, as a result of his interest in long-distance solo boat racing, has studied the systematic timing of short naps as a means of ensuring optimal performance in situations where extreme sleep deprivation is inevitable, but he does not advocate ultrashort napping as a lifestyle...

...In an early mention of systematic napping as a lifestyle, in order to gain more time awake in the day, Buckminster Fuller reportedly advocated a regimen consisting of 30 minute naps every six hours. The short article about Fuller's nap schedule in Time in 1943 also refers to such a schedule as "intermittent sleeping", says that he maintained it for two years, and further notes:

Eventually he had to quit because his schedule conflicted with that of his business associates, who insisted on sleeping like other men.

Wiki article

Which rather neatly takes us back to the straight-jacket of the modern lifestyle...

Thanks for introducing this concept, Masinger.



[edit on 17/7/10 by pause4thought]

reply to post by pause4thought


Good topic.

The Chicken or the Egg problem comes to mind on this topic. With me its been that I end up on here because I can't sleep, not that I can't sleep because I'm on here.

I'm also a person who has for most of my adult life not slept more than 3 or 4 hours a night, with it doing me no apparent harm.

Now I'm getting up in age, I sleep about 5 hours a night. For me anyway, the Internet has just made it less boring when I'm up all alone. If I sleep more, I feel bad all day, so apparently I don't need it. All going to bed early does for me is mean I'm up way to early with nothing to do.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I'm a little surprised at how many people are satisfied with 4/5/6 hours' sleep. I'm beginning to wonder how many of us have actually found our optimal sleep time; maybe some have been duped into thinking 8 hours is the healthy norm, when in fact that might not be true for every individual.

I wonder how long it would take to cement a totally new, and sustainable, sleep-pattern? Maybe 6 hours is enough for most, after all.

It's funny how we don't generally give that much thought to the issue. Maybe time for some personal experimentation.