Ooh I never thought of that, interesting article. We don't have any windmills around here, but our weather should be affected as well, correct?

Lol....So say the Indians. What a load of rubbish ;P

I doubt that a windmill removes significantly more energy from the environment than is lost from friction against stuff the air moves around anyway- Energy is lost if the object is a windmill, or a tree or a hill. The wind does not know the difference. A little critical thinking goes a long way.....

Actually, windfarms are an environmental damage to birds, particularily raptors. Large birds are vulnerable to being hit by the blades, it seems....

Like they say on the site 'bunkum'.

Industry insiders in the UK say the theory is "bunkum" and some observers believe the inquiry has more to do with local politics than science.

The British Wind Energy Association (BWEA) says previous research shows rainfall marginally increased downwind of tall buildings. In addition, taking energy out of the wind increases precipitation says Alison Hill of the BWEA.

Well look at it this way...the air, despite all the things hindering its movment before windmills, has a certain amount of energy. Now we take that energy out to create electricity. That energy was air movment.

Pure and simple, we pulled air motion out of the sky and turned it into electricity.

Build all your wind farm in the windiest areas, and you are slowing down the main currents of our weather patterns.

What? You thought that energy cam from no where? THink there is unlimited forces causing wind? people also thought/think oil would never run out.

[edit on 16-6-2004 by Quest]

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Like they say on the site 'bunkum'.

Industry insiders in the UK say the theory is "bunkum" and some observers believe the inquiry has more to do with local politics than science.

The British Wind Energy Association (BWEA) says previous research shows rainfall marginally increased downwind of tall buildings. In addition, taking energy out of the wind increases precipitation says Alison Hill of the BWEA.

If something manmade causes rain to fall somewhere....thats less water in the air to fall other places. Um...isn't that proof they can cause droughts? Maybe just not right near them.

The trouble is people act like the supply of wind motion or water in the air is unlimited. When you force that air to slow, or rain to fall, that means other areas have less wind or rain.

This is weather change. Climate change. Hell at least in the global warming scenario of Day After Tomorrow its is less direct, heat = ice melt = cold ocean = air flow change. This is just going right to the source and sucking energy from the atmosphere.

I have nothing against the wind industry. This is just to point out that humans think there are easy way to get energy without disturbing the systems they get it from...well there isn't. Every time we use power we are taking it away from something else.

Oil based atmosphere change was at least a biproduct controlable by changing emmisions, this is just harvesting our climate directly.

You're quoting the second law of thermodynamics (entropy in a closed system), but you're missing the important clause. "In a closed system"

The earth isn't a closed system. The energy to form the wind comes from the sun, as does all other energy on earth, including oil. So no, I don't believe that wind farms cause any other damage to the environment other than a little noise, a few birdstrikes, and perhaps the fact that some think that they're eyesores.

Industry insiders in the UK say the theory is "bunkum" and some observers believe the inquiry has more to do with local politics than science.

This article from the BBC is nothing more that sensationlist right-wing propaganda. Quest, is this just a news story on the BBC or did it originate from a Peer-Reviewed study? If it is please post the link and not the Oil-Industry propaganda...

Good point Ouizel, the sun does provide much of the energy for wind, and i had over looked that.

Still, we will need to remove energy from the wind only as fast as it is replenished. And the wind farms will still change weather patterns.

I feel a little silly now that i realize I left out the main source of wind energy.

Originally posted by Ouizel
a few birdstrikes, and perhaps the fact that some think that they're eyesores.

Btw the bigger they are the more energy they get out of the surrounding area = fan blades dont need to turn as fast = even less birdstrikes which is the only thing bad with wind technology IMHO

This article from the BBC is nothing more that sensationlist right-wing propaganda. Quest, is this just a news story on the BBC or did it originate from a Peer-Reviewed study? If it is please post the link and not the Oil-Industry propaganda...

Oh, and I think oil sucks. This wasn't mean as pro-oil. It was meants as a warning that nothing new comes without change.

Oil absolutely sucks. I have to agree. In my not-so humble opinion, we are far, far too dependant on oil. I think wind power has the potential of being a future energy source, but I'm not naive enough to think it's the single, end-all be-all solution to our future energy needs.

SAVE THE WIND!!! When will the world realize that the wind is not going to last forever? We just move from region to region raping the sky of it's natural resource and dont even think of the consequences. Think of all the little children who will never get to fly a kite, or sail in a boat, or feel a cool breeze on thier face on a hot summer day. God bless the BBC for bringing this atrocity to the forefront of the worlds problems!

Originally posted by Quest

If something manmade causes rain to fall somewhere....thats less water in the air to fall other places. Um...isn't that proof they can cause droughts? Maybe just not right near them.

The trouble is people act like the supply of wind motion or water in the air is unlimited. When you force that air to slow, or rain to fall, that means other areas have less wind or rain.

This is weather change. Climate change. Hell at least in the global warming scenario of Day After Tomorrow its is less direct, heat = ice melt = cold ocean = air flow change. This is just going right to the source and sucking energy from the atmosphere.

I have nothing against the wind industry. This is just to point out that humans think there are easy way to get energy without disturbing the systems they get it from...well there isn't. Every time we use power we are taking it away from something else.

Oil based atmosphere change was at least a biproduct controlable by changing emmisions, this is just harvesting our climate directly.

I just thought I would highlight that any building force air to slow. Even the buildings used to house oil based power plants.

Seems to me that generating power from the decrease in air flow is better than wasting this energy while generating pollution by burning oil based fuels.

Air flows from high pressure to low pressure. The pressure differences are caused by unequal heating of the earth's surface. Weather patters occur when mountains, forests and oceans impact the direction, temperature, and humidity of air. A few windmills several meters high will not change weather patterns.

This can be compared to tossing rocks into a river. Does the flow of the river have any noticable change? Does the course of the river change?

As previously stated, the biggest impact windfarms have is on the local bird and bat populations.

There is no way windfarms "suck" energy from the wind. That is absolutely crazy talk. The energy doesnt come from wind it actually comes from electromagnetic fields in the turbine attached to the blade. The wind is just a means of propulsion as is water in a hydroelectric dam. I wager that hydrocarbons burning do much more to alter the environment than any amount of wind farms will ever do. The BIG problem is that current wind farm technology is inefficient compared to the alternatives and they are big wastes of space, resources, and they are big honkin eyesores.

Mon Dieu, what would they rather go back to coal power and end up looking like the former CCCP?

Please, global warming from all of the CO2 that we are pumping into the sky rather than windfarms probably caused the lack of rain.

If the whole cutting the clouds to ribbons thing were true then you'd never see clouds over the world's busiest airports, because the constant flow of planes would cut them apart. I've flown into O'Hare, Kansai, Heathrow and LAX enough to know that it not only gets cloudy over the airports but, gasp, rains!

Besides, the ammount of energy removed by a wind farm is tiny compaired to the energy released in just one thunderstorm, let alone is constantly being flowed through the jet stream.

This all sounds like right-wing propaganda that will be pushed by the same people who don't believe that global warming exists.

Lets all use common sense here, people.

Blessed Be
~Astral

Originally posted by TJ11240
A few windmills several meters high will not change weather patterns.

I think this statement should end in the word "much".

Localized wind patterns would indeed change. The sailing technique of "stealing the wind" demostrates changes in local wind patterns.

Much like a rock tossed in the river, the pattern of the river has been changed to cause the river to travel around the rock. If I were to toss enough rocks into the river, the course of the river would eventually change. This is basically how dams and floodwalls/dikes work.

It is really just a matter of scale.

In the grand scheme of things, I doubt a wind farm would effect weather patterns more than the buildings of a oil based power plant.

Originally posted by zsandmann
There is no way windfarms "suck" energy from the wind. That is absolutely crazy talk. The energy doesnt come from wind it actually comes from electromagnetic fields in the turbine attached to the blade. The wind is just a means of propulsion as is water in a hydroelectric dam.

Um....yes it does.

Magnetic field + conductor + motion = electricity

Windfarms convert energy. The wind pushes the blade. The blade turns the conductors in the turbine. The conductor inducts an electric field as it travels through magnetic fields.

Energy in divided by energy out is always less than one. The energy in is provided by the wind expending its energy as it hits the fan blade.

It is not possible for wind farms to effect weather paterns IMO. I'm not a weatherman so keep that in mind.

If you had 2,500 windmills on a hill how would that cause weather to be different at a certain spot? The wind blowing through the windmills is only surface wind. There is plenty more wind available above the windmills all the way up several miles to make up for the disturbances caused by the windmills at the earths surface. The jet streams, the wind in all the high and low pressure areas all over the world, surface temp, humitidy, and pressure all over the planet mostly the water, the spin of the earth, these thing effect the weather 100 billion times more than a few thousand windmills on a hill. This makes no since to me.