Eternal sin: an unforgivable offense?

This is a question for anyone who is familiar with Christian theology (and has something constructive to say).

The Bible speaks of "eternal sin", which is defined as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This sin is unforgivable; once a person commits it there is nothing that person can ever do thereafter to escape damnation.

The relevant passages (in the KJV) are:

Mark 3:28-29 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Matthew 12:30-32 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Luke 12:8-10 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

My question (maybe questions because multifaceted) is, what is this sin? What one must do to commit it (by this I mean, what, in concrete terms, does it mean to blaspheme the Holy Spirit)? What are the conditions under which one is faced with the temptation to commit an eternal sin?

Seems like this should be discussed more, because if there's anything in the realm of all conceivable possibility that one should make sure they not do, it's this. How do I avoid offending this Spirit?



[edit on 14-7-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

Eternal sin could be anything brother. I believe heven or hell is what you make it. If you BELIEVE you have committed "Eternal Sin" you are damned. If you have a clear concience, you are ok. But im not a very religuous person. I dont like the way churches are operated. I believe only a few of them are there for the right reasons. Like 4 or 5 percent.

This reminds me of a movie i saw once, i dont really remember what it was, but a the beginning someone was going to hell and there was population sign on the way and it said:

Hell POP. 458,745,621,028,910,123
Heaven POP.=27

I thought it was pretty funny.

MITF!

in order to commit this sin, a person must have a first-hand knowledge of "God the Father", and knowingly deny his glory.

knowledge of this kind is not merely a confirmation by the spirit, or an act of faith. but rather, a literal and direct knowledge. to my understanding, very few (if any) of god's mortal children are given this type of direct knowledge. thus, it is nearly impossible in this lifetime to commit this type of sin.

those persons that do commit this type of sin are known as the "sons of perdition", who must spend the remainder of eternity cast into "outer darkness".


disclaimer: i dont actually believe any of this crap. i am just reporting it back as it was told to me from back in my indoctrination.

Hi, thanks for asking.

The unpardonable sin which lasts for all eternity is denying Christ's identity, rejecting Him. His identity is the Savior, the only worthy One to be able to die on the cross for atonement of our sins, who rose again and is Living. He is the Living God.

If you are a Christian, you cannot commit this sin, because that means you have asked the LORD to forgive your sins and He did, then sending the Spirit to dwell inside you as a deposit of the guarantee of your inheritance (eternal life with Him in heaven).

If you are not a Christian you may or may not have already committed this sin. If you have heard the Gospel and rejected it, you committed it and you are destined for hell. If you have heard the Gospel and are still keeping the door open (which it look like you are, you have not committed it ...yet.

The sin is eternal because His holiness is eternal. The twain shall never meet. If you are curious about wanting to please the Spirit, then understand that you are a sinner (anything you think, say, or do that displeases God). Understand that your sins mean you cannot go to heaven and be with a Holy God. And understand that all you need to do is ask Jesus to forgive them and submit to His authority for your life, in other words, accepting His identity as Lord and Savior. And you will then be forgiven.

I'll be around of you have any questions. Again, thanks for asking

I believe the Bible is a book written by man as that particular man interperted what he read or heard. The same goes for organized religion. Each one has a different interpertation. Its a mess of puzzles and contradictory writings, nothing more, nothing less. When will people learn to not listen to others but to follow and listen to their hearts - that is where the truth lies. We are born with the knowledge of right and wrong - we don't need another person to tell us what it is. It is our choice to follow it or not. IMO

Woo my favorite sin in the Bible!!!

I try to break this one on a daily basis, for sure.

Oh, and I HAVE had "first hand experience" with this 'god'. So even that NEW rule applies!

Yeah, if you break this sin you are "out of luck". Since the Bible is "God's" word, and that god supposedly can't lie...

J.C. says it too! TWICE! You know it must be important!

Let me translate it:

"If you question the one thing that is provable, you will go to hell."

Can't prove, J.C. or not, at least not without time-travel.

Can't prove god or not.

We could prove if there was a magic being inside of us, but if we even doubt that the being is there we go to hell.

(Sounds like a way to keep people from asking questions to me...)

PS I do not want to debate this, I have done massive amounts of research. If you think you can denounce my stance you have to PROVE Jesus was real first. I have a thread, check my profile and post in said thread.

(I will still continue to post of course, but since I am a Pope it will be at my secretion!)

ok im not really that religious but i do watch one show called "The Shepard's Chapel" . He is the best source i have found on matters of Christianity as he teaches the bible verse by verse with a Strongs concordance . According to Pastor Murray the unpardonable sin is to deny god to speak thru you when brought before the antichrist. Anyone with questions on this matter should look here

i really recommend them as they dont ask for money and are not on any "trinity broadcast network" channels . they buy commercial air time to get the word out. I may not always agree with the Cristian Church but i trust Pastor Murray on biblical matters.



edit deleted to this

[edit on 14-7-2010 by Another_Nut]

The scriptures define the Holy Spirit as the "spirit of truth".
It is not some spook, deceased person, or a piece of a trinity godhead.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him, for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

This scripture implies to me that the Spirit of truth is something in our own inner consciousness. The reason others do not "know him" is that they have been turned over to reprobate minds through justifying their evil, greed, and other dark deeds.

The Spirit is not really a "him" as implied by gender usage in the translations. The Spirit is something within the human essence---synonomous with the breath, the soul, of a person.

There are scriptures which refer to grieving the Holy Spirit. I think that refers to the remorse we feel when we do the wrong things or make the wrong choices. But there are some people who have no remorse for the evil they do. In a case like that it would be blasphemy when evil is done with purpose and total disregard for humanity in order to gain from it by pleasure, power, greed, etc.

reply to post by Dread Pirate Roberts

submit to His authority

..So the point of free will is?

...

I don't believe god wants us to become slaves. I'd rather not, but I guess that means I'm burning in hell in your theology right?

Originally posted by Alethea
The scriptures define the Holy Spirit as the "spirit of truth".
It is not some spook, deceased person, or a piece of a trinity godhead.

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him, for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

What?!

Here, let me bold something for you:

John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him, for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So "he" ain't a spook, or dead guy, or part of the trinity. But "he" is still some magical being inside of people, that we are not allowed to prove.

(For if we look for proof of this magic man, we doubt the magic man. If we doubt the magic man, we go to hell.)

I love catch 22s!

reply to post by NewlyAwakened


I have no idea of what this great sin is. But I hope to post something that is constructive. The Great Sin! Deny the Holy Spirit? Didn't Lucifer do this?
Rebelled against his creator and said, something like "I am just as powerful. I can think for myself. I denouce your rules, nay, even your very existance as the most powerful Oz!" Something like that.

What did that get this guy? Oh, he gets to freely walk upon the earth and create havoc and discontent. He gets to rule the skies. He also seems to get a bit of respite in the very hell where he will torture others. For about 1000 years. And then he is set free again. WTF?

And me? A lowly human who doesn't even know what all the sin rules are gets to spend eternity in some awful place?

Hmmph!

I'd really like to talk to St. Peter. He was given the keys to heaven and the secrets of it all. Too bad, huh? He kept it to himself, or so it goes.

Deny the Holy Spirit. To me that means to deny that one is a part of this great universe. To say, one does not want any part of it after death of the human body. Fine. No longer exist, then. Your choice. Buh byeeeee!
Could it be that simple? I dunno. Sounds good to me, though.

Wait! I was just checking other posts. The great sin might be to deny Jesus was the "One." Meh. I believe this Jesus guy did live. And I also believe this Jesus guy lived many times in many places. To me he was a voice from the universe, showing ways to advance spiritually, while in human form. And I believe he was not way too radical in his/her teachings. He taught on the level of the culture he was in at that time. Not dumbing down, and not going so far above what some people who had influence could understand and comprehend, according to their culture.
But that's just me. My words are just as meaningless, or important, as a book of books written centuries ago.

By the way. Trust me.

There is no "heaven" or "hell". Because I have seen the glory of the universe! I have seen that all of us continue on forever. and I have seen the face of God!

And he's kind of cute.

He's not at all as terrible as some people try to make him/her to be.

Don't fear the reaper. You'll be able to fly. Something like that.

i have a better idea to consider.



i'm not a christian but i do believe in GOD and i have a somewhat different view than, ahem, most people, but it isn't something i've made up and it makes more sense to me than any of the popular theologies and dogmas and whatever whatever...

with that said, i will tell you what i've come up with, at this point in time.

the Holy Spirit is something that unites everyone who is bound by love - the true followers of Christ are hippie love children - there is a unity there and it is forged by the holy spirit.

it is what brings a person to understand not only the good and righteous parts of loving one's neighbor but that it is an absolute necessity and the way the world was designed to be, eventually.

so, to deny that another soul is your brother is to blaspheme that loving spirit of unification ( or "that unifying spirit of love").
this includes everyone.
EVERYONE

look at the verses that come before that part, in the Gospel of Mark:

Mark 3:
(22) And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, He has Beelzebub, and He casts out demons by the ruler of the demons.
(23) And He called them and said to them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
(24) And if a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
(25) And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
(26) And if Satan rises up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end.
(27) No one can enter into a strong one's house and plunder his goods, except he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.
(28) Truly I say to you, All sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and blasphemies with which they shall blaspheme.
(29) But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never shall have forgiveness, but is liable to eternal condemnation.
(30) Because they said, He has an unclean spirit.

he's talking about Satan can't be divided in his house or it won't stand.

here is the same part from a version called "The Bible in Basic English"

Mark 3:
(21) And when his friends had news of it, they went out to get him, saying, He is off his head.
(22) And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem, said, He has Beelzebub, and, By the ruler of evil spirits he sends evil spirits out of men.
(23) And turning to them, he said to them in the form of a story, How is it possible for Satan to put out Satan?
(24) If there is division in a kingdom, that kingdom will come to destruction;
(25) And if there is division in a house, that house will come to destruction;
(26) And if Satan is at war with himself, and there is division in him, he will not keep his place but will come to an end.
(27) But no one is able to go into the house of the strong man and take his goods, without first putting cords round the strong man, and then he will take his goods.
(28) Truly, I say to you, The sons of men will have forgiveness for all their sins and for all the evil words they say:
(29) But whoever says evil things against the Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but the evil he has done will be with him for ever:
(30) Because they said, He has an unclean spirit.

see, they (his critics) are accusing Jesus of being a devil, or possessed, or maybe even ha'Satan himself - he was doing things that were way out there - far out of the normal range of behavior that they expected from a man his age in that station in life.

so, they couldn't believe the things he was doing. if it had been in Europe, 400 years ago, they would have burned him at the stake instead of crucified him.

the passage in Matthew is basically the same scene, but a little more beefed up.

and then in Luke, he brings this up when talking about how everything hidden will one day be revealed, and not to worry because GOD's watching over them, and also that if they confess, or deny, Jesus, in front of GOD, Jesus will do the same in return.

SO, think about this way:

many people are very condemning toward anyone they consider to be more on the *dark* side than the *light* side....but what if it turned out that everyone was on the same side and when they got to their big white-throne-in-the-sky-courtroom, they were presented with Jesus but who looked like one of the kind of people they had always condemned as either being deceived by the devil or possessed or a devotee, something.
and so when they look at Jesus, in the flesh that they've been conditioned to judge against, then they deny him instead of confess him.

is that perhaps when he is revealed to them as Jesus, and they say "Lord, Lord" - which he answers with "get away from me, workers of iniquity. i never knew you!" ???



i don't think it is so much an unpardonable mistake as it is one that isn't reversed until it doesn't exist any more - if a soul scorns the unity of the spirit, they cannot reconcile with that unity until they admit that it exists and that it is god-given to all of us.

and then they are no longer "outside" but "inside" and that's the end of the eternal condemnation - eternal does not mean from now on - it means of "this age" or "that age", etc.

if they separate from the core in this age, world, aeon, whatever, then they will remain separate in the next, simply because that's where they put themselves from their own prejudices.

If I believe in Jesus Christ (which I do) is that good enough?

By that I mean, there is enough evidence (two thousand after the fact) that
I'm certain Jesus existed. I'm also sure Genghis Khan and Buddha existed as
well...I just don't believe that any of them were God. They were all just
extraordinary men.

Am I doomed for to burn in hell for all eternity now? Or do I get a pass to
heaven?

reply to post by NewlyAwakened


According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Sins against the Holy Ghost

The sin or blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is mentioned in Matthew 12:22-32; Mark 3:22-30; Luke 12:10 (cf. 11:14-23); and Christ everywhere declares that it shall not be pardoned. In what does it consist? If we examine all the passages alluded to, there can be little doubt as to the reply.

Let us take, for instance, the account given by St. Matthew which is more complete than that of the other Synoptics. There had been brought to Christ "one possessed with a devil, blind and dumb: and he healed him, so that he spoke and saw". While the crowd is wondering, and asking: "Is not this the Son of David?", the Pharisees, yielding to their wonted jealousy, and shutting their eyes to the light of evidence, say: "This man casteth not out devils but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils." Jesus then proves to them this absurdity, and, consequently, the malice of their explanation; He shows them that it is by "the Spirit of God" that He casts out devils, and then He concludes: "therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not he forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come."

So, to sin against the Holy Ghost is to confound Him with the spirit of evil, it is to deny, from pure malice, the Divine character of works manifestly Divine. This is the sense in which St. Mark also defines the sin question; for, after reciting the words of the Master: "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost shall never have forgiveness", he adds at once: "Because they said: He hath an unclean spirit." With this sin of pure downright malice, Jesus contrasts the sin "against the Son of man", that is the sin committed against Himself as man, the wrong done to His humanity in judging Him by His humble and lowly appearance. This fault, unlike the former, might he excused as the result of man's ignorance and misunderstanding.

But the Fathers of the Church, commenting on the Gospel texts we are treating of, did not confine themselves to the meaning given above. Whether it be that they wished to group together all objectively analogous cases, or whether they hesitated and wavered when confronted with this point of doctrine, which St. Augustine declares (Serm. ii de verbis Domini, c. v) one of the most difficult in Scripture, they have proposed different interpretations or explanations.

St. Thomas, whom we may safely follow, gives a very good summary of opinions in II-II.14. He says that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was and may be explained in three ways.
•Sometimes, and in its most literal signification, it has been taken to mean the uttering of an insult against the Divine Spirit, applying the appellation either to the Holy Ghost or to all three Divine persons. This was the sin of the Pharisees, who spoke at first against "the Son of Man", criticizing the works and human ways of Jesus, accusing Him of loving good cheer and wine, of associating with the publicans, and who, later on, with undoubted bad faith, traduced His Divine works, the miracles which He wrought by virtue of His own Divinity.
•On the other hand, St. Augustine frequently explains blasphemy against the Holy Ghost to be final impenitence, perseverance till death in mortal sin. This impenitence is against the Holy Ghost, in the sense that it frustrates and is absolutely opposed to the remission of sins, and this remission is appropriated to the Holy Ghost, the mutual love of the Father and the Son. In this view, Jesus, in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 did not really accuse the Pharisees of blaspheming the Holy Ghost, He only warned them against the danger they were in of doing so.
•Finally, several Fathers, and after them, many scholastic theologians, apply the expression to all sins directly opposed to that quality which is, by appropriation, the characteristic quality of the Third Divine Person. Charity and goodness are especially attributed to the Holy Ghost, as power is to the Father and wisdom to the Son. Just, then, as they termed sins against the Father those that resulted from frailty, and sins against the Son those that sprang from ignorance, so the sins against the Holy Ghost are those that are committed from downright malice, either by despising or rejecting the inspirations and impulses which, having been stirred in man's soul by the Holy Ghost, would turn him away or deliver him from evil.

It is easy to see how this wide explanation suits all the circumstances of the case where Christ addresses the words to the Pharisees. These sins are commonly reckoned six: despair, presumption, impenitence or a fixed determination not to repent, obstinacy, resisting the known truth, and envy of another's spiritual welfare.

The sins against the Holy Ghost are said to be unpardonable, but the meaning of this assertion will vary very much according to which of the three explanations given above is accepted. As to final impenitence it is absolute; and this is easily understood, for even God cannot pardon where there is no repentance, and the moment of death is the fatal instant after which no mortal sin is remitted. It was because St. Augustine considered Christ's words to imply absolute unpardonableness that he held the sin against the Holy Ghost to be solely final impenitence. In the other two explanations, according to St. Thomas, the sin against the Holy Ghost is remissable — not absolutely and always, but inasmuch as (considered in itself) it has not the claims and extenuating circumstance, inclining towards a pardon, that might be alleged in the case of sins of weakness and ignorance. He who, from pure and deliberate malice, refuses to recognize the manifest work of God, or rejects the necessary means of salvation, acts exactly like a sick man who not only refuses all medicine and all food, but who does all in his power to increase his illness, and whose malady becomes incurable, due to his own action. It is true, that in either case, God could, by a miracle, overcome the evil; He could, by His omnipotent intervention, either nullify the natural causes of bodily death, or radically change the will of the stubborn sinner; but such intervention is not in accordance with His ordinary providence; and if he allows the secondary causes to act, if He offers the free human will of ordinary but sufficient grace, who shall seek cause of complaint? In a word, the irremissableness of the sins against the Holy Ghost is exclusively on the part of the sinner, on account of the sinner's act.

Catholic Encyclopedia

Edit to add: Thanks for bringing this up, I learned something new today.

For those who don't have the time to read the whole quote above:

These sins are commonly reckoned six: despair, presumption, impenitence or a fixed determination not to repent, obstinacy, resisting the known truth, and envy of another's spiritual welfare.



He who, from pure and deliberate malice, refuses to recognize the manifest work of God, or rejects the necessary means of salvation, acts exactly like a sick man who not only refuses all medicine and all food, but who does all in his power to increase his illness, and whose malady becomes incurable, due to his own action.

Pretty much sums up the whole article.







[edit on 7/14/10 by FortAnthem]

reply to post by kyred


i like your post!

GOD ZIRA! GOD ZIRA!

Originally posted by time91
reply to post by Dread Pirate Roberts

 

submit to His authority

..So the point of free will is?

...

I don't believe god wants us to become slaves. I'd rather not, but I guess that means I'm burning in hell in your theology right?

The point of free will is the freedom to choose your way or God's way. Even choosing God's way does not mean you automatically become a robot, lol. I still can choose things. I Just know that if I choose my way its less optimal than God's way. But I can still choose.

As for submitting, no, it's not slavery. You submit every day in life. To your teacher's authority. To police authority. To government authority. To employer authority. Submitting to Jesus as the ultimate authority is simply an acknowledgement that He knows best, since He's, well...God. That nothing I could dream up for my life would or could be any better than the plans He has for me.

But more to the point and the thread question, it's about sin. We are sinners, we do things that offend God. And He knows we sin, and He loves us anyway. He made a way for us to be with Him. The ultimate sin is rejecting His remedy for sin: Jesus. To go to hell you literally have to step over Jesus' dead body to get there.

(PS: that was a picture-metaphor. Jesus is alive)

Originally posted by rival
If I believe in Jesus Christ (which I do) is that good enough?

By that I mean, there is enough evidence (two thousand after the fact) that
I'm certain Jesus existed. I'm also sure Genghis Khan and Buddha existed as
well...I just don't believe that any of them were God. They were all just
extraordinary men.

Am I doomed for to burn in hell for all eternity now? Or do I get a pass to
heaven?

The demons believe in Jesus too, and shudder. They're going to hell.

Do you believe Jesus had the power and authority to die as the sacrifice for your sins, and have you asked Him to forgive them? That is really what believing in Jesus means.

I would never tell. Those who did, it seems an awful lot like enabling to me.
Best be careful.

[edit on 14-7-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Dread Pirate Roberts
Hi, thanks for asking.

The unpardonable sin which lasts for all eternity is denying Christ's identity, rejecting Him. His identity is the Savior, the only worthy One to be able to die on the cross for atonement of our sins, who rose again and is Living. He is the Living God.

If you are a Christian, you cannot commit this sin, because that means you have asked the LORD to forgive your sins and He did, then sending the Spirit to dwell inside you as a deposit of the guarantee of your inheritance (eternal life with Him in heaven).

If you are not a Christian you may or may not have already committed this sin. If you have heard the Gospel and rejected it, you committed it and you are destined for hell. If you have heard the Gospel and are still keeping the door open (which it look like you are, you have not committed it ...yet.

The sin is eternal because His holiness is eternal. The twain shall never meet. If you are curious about wanting to please the Spirit, then understand that you are a sinner (anything you think, say, or do that displeases God). Understand that your sins mean you cannot go to heaven and be with a Holy God. And understand that all you need to do is ask Jesus to forgive them and submit to His authority for your life, in other words, accepting His identity as Lord and Savior. And you will then be forgiven.

I'll be around of you have any questions. Again, thanks for asking

Dread,
I have a question.......what if you were a christian and told God and Jesus to get the """""blank"""" out of your life. Say you were very mad at them...and felt forsaken......and burned your baptismal stuff, etc.......rejected God knowingly........if that an unforgiveable sin....I mean you know what you are saying......."God get the hell out of my life" , rejecting him...........this seems to fit the unpardonable part because you rejected God and Jesus......and although in a state of madness......u still did it. What about that........knowingly asking get out.......what are your thoughts?

reply to post by NewlyAwakened

Great question. It is the Holy Spirit that draws a person to Christ. To continually reject that drawing of the Spirit to the point of being turned over to a reprobate mind is the unpardonable sin. God is merciful toward us in that He continues to reach out to us even when we reject Him. However, He is not obligated to call to us but once, but His love for us compels Him to continue the call.
More importantly. Do not let Satan the great liar make you believe that you have committed the unpardonable sin. He will tell you that lie in order to get you to just give up. Just remember He is a liar and the father of lies. If Satan already had you, he wouldn't be bothering you. I hope this helped.
Seeashrink