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Eternal sin: an unforgivable offense?

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posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by adigregorio


So "he" ain't a spook, or dead guy, or part of the trinity. But "he" is still some magical being inside of people, that we are not allowed to prove.

(For if we look for proof of this magic man, we doubt the magic man. If we doubt the magic man, we go to hell.)

I love catch 22s!



Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension.
Spirit is essence. It is a part of a person's inner consciousness.

As far as the mention of gender, this was addressed in my post above. Take into consideration the translation in 1611 and how terms were expressed.

Your post is totally illogical and juvenile.




posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by speaknoevil07

Originally posted by Dread Pirate Roberts
Hi, thanks for asking.

The unpardonable sin which lasts for all eternity is denying Christ's identity, rejecting Him. His identity is the Savior, the only worthy One to be able to die on the cross for atonement of our sins, who rose again and is Living. He is the Living God.

If you are a Christian, you cannot commit this sin, because that means you have asked the LORD to forgive your sins and He did, then sending the Spirit to dwell inside you as a deposit of the guarantee of your inheritance (eternal life with Him in heaven).

If you are not a Christian you may or may not have already committed this sin. If you have heard the Gospel and rejected it, you committed it and you are destined for hell. If you have heard the Gospel and are still keeping the door open (which it look like you are, you have not committed it ...yet.

The sin is eternal because His holiness is eternal. The twain shall never meet. If you are curious about wanting to please the Spirit, then understand that you are a sinner (anything you think, say, or do that displeases God). Understand that your sins mean you cannot go to heaven and be with a Holy God. And understand that all you need to do is ask Jesus to forgive them and submit to His authority for your life, in other words, accepting His identity as Lord and Savior. And you will then be forgiven.

I'll be around of you have any questions. Again, thanks for asking

Dread,
I have a question.......what if you were a christian and told God and Jesus to get the """""blank"""" out of your life. Say you were very mad at them...and felt forsaken......and burned your baptismal stuff, etc.......rejected God knowingly........if that an unforgiveable sin....I mean you know what you are saying......."God get the hell out of my life" , rejecting him...........this seems to fit the unpardonable part because you rejected God and Jesus......and although in a state of madness......u still did it. What about that........knowingly asking get out.......what are your thoughts?


Hmmm, I think the best way to answer that is to divide up the person's rejection of God into two parts: and it's called apostasy. There are two kinds of apostasy (1) A falling away from key and true doctrines of the Bible into heretical teachings that proclaim to be ‘the real’ Christian doctrine; (which can happen if a person is angry with God as when people go thru tragedies etc) (2) A complete renunciation of the Christian faith, which results in a full abandonment of Christ.

The first kind happens when a truly saved Christian simply, for a time, does not spend time walking with Jesus (prayer, church worship, bible reading, acts, all outward expressions of close walk and inner faith). Sometimes Christians who for example lose a child, become angry and take that anger out on God. He understands and eventually the true Christian misses their "Father" and returns to Him.

The second kind, the kind I think you are speaking of, occurs when someone is never saved to begin with. The Lord said not one person would be lost or snatched from His hand. He sends the Holy Spirit and seals Him in us. If a person has truly submitted and accepted Jesus as Redeemer for their sins, they will never ever never in no way will go to hell. They don't WANT to reject Him for good. And if they do, they never were saved to begin with.



posted on Jul, 14 2010 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by Alethea

Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension.
Spirit is essence. It is a part of a person's inner consciousness.

I didn't see that in your Bible verse. Why...Oh I see...


As far as the mention of gender, this was addressed in my post above. Take into consideration the translation in 1611 and how terms were expressed.


So I have to "take into consideration" this error in the Bible, but ignore other ones? Check!


Your post is totally illogical and juvenile.

Really? Did I say things like:


Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension.

And

Your post is totally illogical and juvenile.


Did I say those things? Or did you?

The Lord's work again? Judging...



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by Dread Pirate Roberts
 


Hey thanks for the reply, sometimes when you challenge someones beliefs they get angry, but you stayed above that.

I agree that we know what is right and wrong, what we should do no matter how difficult it is in certain situations, etc. but I'm not sure if that is just a part of us, or "gods voice" or whatever you want to call it. I'm curious, do you think that 'hell' is eternal, or temporary, and do you think it is really continuous torture or just seperation from god (although some would say the two are one and the same, you know what I mean.). There are many different views, and what I find strange about the bible is all of the different terminology for time. Like when jesus says "I'll be with you always, even until the end of the age" (or something very close to that), what age is he referring to? Pisces? Another astrological age? Or just all time?


[edit on 15-7-2010 by time91]



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by time91
reply to post by Dread Pirate Roberts
 


Hey thanks for the reply, sometimes when you challenge someones beliefs they get angry, but you stayed above that.

I agree that we know what is right and wrong, what we should do no matter how difficult it is in certain situations, etc. but I'm not sure if that is just a part of us, or "gods voice" or whatever you want to call it. I'm curious, do you think that 'hell' is eternal, or temporary, and do you think it is really continuous torture or just seperation from god (although some would say the two are one and the same, you know what I mean.). There are many different views, and what I find strange about the bible is all of the different terminology for time. Like when jesus says "I'll be with you always, even until the end of the age" (or something very close to that), what age is he referring to? Pisces? Another astrological age? Or just all time?


[edit on 15-7-2010 by time91]


Sure, no problem.

Hell is forever, I'm sure about that. [For the record I get my beliefs from the bible]. Hell is eternal because sin is eternal. If you stole something, or lied, or was an adulterer, those are sins. They are things you did to rebel against God, and reverberations of those actions will last forever. It's like, if you slept with your best friend's wife, that is an action that cannot be taken back, you did it and it's done. God is Holy (perfect, sinless) and since His holiness is eternal, your sin forever marks you as an enemy of God and you must be separate from Him.

Hell was not originally created for man, it was prepared for the devil and his angels. When Adam and Eve sinned, and subsequent generations born have a 'sin nature' meaning we start out as sinners. If you don't think babies are sinners then you've never seen a kid learn to say "NO!" as his first word, lol. After the fall, all people who are not forgiven of sin will go there. If people ask Jesus to forgive their sins, He will and best of all, He 'blots them out', forgets them. Your best friend, if he can forgive you, will certainly never forget it. God will.

In Luke 16:28 hell is called "place of torment" but I don't know much beyond that about what goes on there. I know the rich man speaking to Lazarus on the other side of the gulf said "So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'" (Luke 16:34) so we know it is hot. I know that hell will be lonely and dark, being away from the presence of God and really, no matter what else hell contains, *that* is torment. People now who are atheists and deny God still benefit from His creation. They are in His light. Once apart from it, they will know the dramatic and tragic difference.

There are many colloquialisms in the bible for hell, there's Tartarus (gloomy dungeons), Hades (Greek for Hell) Gehenna (a name for the landfill outside Jerusalem always on fire) Sheol (the grave). But it is eternal. When Jesus said I shall be with you even unto the end of the age, He meant this age, the age of the Christian Dispensation. After the rapture and 1000 year kingdom (Millennial Kingdom) He will renew the earth and the bible is silent on what He has in mind for us the next age. But whatever it is, we will be with Him. Those in hell will remain in hell.

Ask anything anytime, I'm always glad to answer, and I'll never get mad



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 08:28 AM
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Thanks for the replies. As I am not sure where I stand on the metaphysical, obviously I'm not sure where I stand on this question. The discussion has been interesting so far.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 10:16 AM
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Funny, I was just mentioning the relevant passage in another context this morning in a different thread.

It is clear that the phrase arises in the context of a specific incident, presumably first written in Mark 3: 22 ff., and then ported from there into the other synoptics.

The passage is "difficult" because forgiveness of sin following repentance is what Jesus preached, based on the franchise of John the Baptist before him. So, if Jesus were teaching here that there was anything that was in principle unforgiveable, then he'd be off-message, plain and simple. Jesus was a pro, so the odds of that are slim.

The straightforward explanation is to embrace the obvious. Jesus is saying that his accusers on this particular occasion have committed a sin (blasphemy, which is to attribute the work of God to another agent), and Jesus predicts that they, those specific individuals, will never repent of their sin. If so, then of course, their sin would not be forgiven, ever. The opportunity to repent would be available to them for this, as it is (supposedly) to everybody for everything, but these specific individuals will decline the offer.

Not my religion, but I don't see anything in the story that is really so obscure or startling. Basically, Jesus found a longwinded way to answer his accusers by telling them, face-to-face, to go to Hell.

He wasn't speaking to you.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 10:51 AM
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either its an allegory for semen / sperm
or
its an allegory for males looking down on females


man can not be created without the holy spirit

jesus said you may talk # about his father but the "holy spirit" should be left alone


either way, faliur to recognize that you need semen and females in order to create takes away your "god" title

in other word its eternal sin for your "garden of eden"



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 11:46 AM
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I think it has something to do with idolatry. That's what the epistles of John seem to imply.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by zerbot565
 


excellent observation.

everyone has both a father AND a mother.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by NewlyAwakened
This is a question for anyone who is familiar with Christian theology (and has something constructive to say).

The Bible speaks of "eternal sin", which is defined as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This sin is unforgivable; once a person commits it there is nothing that person can ever do thereafter to escape damnation.


Three possibilities to consider. Generally, scholars view the first, which puts it into the context of the rest of the passage, to be most likely. Christ is saying that declaring the Holy Spirit's actions to be evil or actually done by Satan is the blasphemy.

The other two require that you believe that the nature of the Holy Spirit is that he's the bit of God that is within us. Christ can be saying that the only unforgivable sin is suicide -- killing the "temple" that the spirit resides in. Logically, this makes sense, as it's obviously a sin, and one that you can't ask forgiveness of, since you're dead. Many survivors of suicide who report NDEs have a different experience than others who "died" from other means.

However, my personal favourite is that Christ is saying that using another's faith (the Holy Spirit in them) to take advantage of them for your own gain is the unpardonable sin. Think priest that abuses children, televangelist that gets old ladies to send him money to buy a new Cadillac, or an Imam who convinces a Muslim to carry out a suicide bombing.



posted on Jul, 15 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
However, my personal favourite is that Christ is saying that using another's faith (the Holy Spirit in them) to take advantage of them for your own gain is the unpardonable sin. Think priest that abuses children, televangelist that gets old ladies to send him money to buy a new Cadillac, or an Imam who convinces a Muslim to carry out a suicide bombing.


you know, i've never heard that one before!
i like it, too.
it makes sense, especially since there are very real (unfortunately) examples, such as you've given.

thanks for the fresh insight.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by adjensen
However, my personal favourite is that Christ is saying that using another's faith (the Holy Spirit in them) to take advantage of them for your own gain is the unpardonable sin. Think priest that abuses children, televangelist that gets old ladies to send him money to buy a new Cadillac, or an Imam who convinces a Muslim to carry out a suicide bombing.


you know, i've never heard that one before!
i like it, too.
it makes sense, especially since there are very real (unfortunately) examples, such as you've given.

thanks for the fresh insight.


Consider, perhaps, what such a situation posits. A person who abuses another's belief not only pollutes their own relationship with God, they pollute that other person's. If I had been abused by a person that I believed in some measure represented the Church, what would I need to overcome in order to get back to square one with God, never mind making progress of my spiritual journey?

I can, in fact, envision a relationship in which God gives an awful lot of slack to one who finds themselves in this position. A loving God, I believe, recognizes our starting points, and can adjust his expectations accordingly.

But I think that, ultimately, it comes back to the one who caused the breach in faith.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by NewlyAwakened
 


An atheist asked a Hindu monk about the afterlife.

"Where does an atheist go after death?"


Picture a hindu spiritual master's east indian accent
"Well if you believe in nothing then you go to nothing and then when you get sick of that you will continue your growth."



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 01:55 AM
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This is probably one of the most misunderstood scriptures of all.

These are they that choose the dark or left hand path of selfishness over many lifetimes and refuse to progress and only focus on self. Eventually they will be thrown back into the cosmic mix so to speak and wait a billions years for a new solar system to be created before they come out and try again.

Very few will follow this path and stay on it. All try selfishness for a time but eventually change course when enough pain is felt. Eternal punishment doesn't mean forever and ever it just means the type of punishment one receives in eternity.

Most of us will tread the path and find liberation and progression. Some if us will take longer then others. Very few will refuse to move head and they are what is called sons of perdition. If you have any compassion at all you have not committed this sin so do not worry. And the fact that you have to ask is proof you have not commited it.

It has to be one who has followed the inner voice or light for several lifetimes and reached a certain level in thier evolution, understanding or progress and then suddenly detours and decides to follow the selfish path and eventually joins the dark brotherhood.



posted on Jul, 16 2010 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
This is probably one of the most misunderstood scriptures of all.

These are they that choose the dark or left hand path of selfishness over many lifetimes and refuse to progress and only focus on self.


Even granting you the liberty of your eisegesis perspective, I seriously can't see any way that you extract a concept of reincarnation out of that passage. Most misunderstood, indeed, as it appears that Christ himself misunderstood what he was saying and accidentally used all the wrong words!



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