Are we brothers with five?

Originally posted by Leveller
Having analysed it, I think we can safely assume that it was written by your good self. Not only is the tone of the content yours, but the punctuation is the same. We see plenty of use of ".......", just as you have used in this thread.

For example:

"Fake" Decretal: - "But would you know what I mean by 'Non nobis, domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!'... You may, but I doubt it."

Decretal in this thread:- "First of all, it is Sephiroth, and second... Shows what you know"

We can also see the same use and style in the original post in this thread which was also written by you as "hobctc".

hobtc:- "Should decretal have his membership restated here on the board ... You will find a great and enormous depth of knowledge can be applied and shared by him."

[edit on 19-6-2004 by Leveller]

Greetings Leveller,
The first thing I would say about your analysation is this>insert ellipse< George Bush came to the conclusion that Saddam Hussein was in possession if weapons capable of mass destruction.

As well as that, take a look at my 'supposed' post and then look at what Darktalon has said, I sepertate all my information according to it's relevance - The post in question is just one big block of nonsense.

The post that I have claimed is not me, to put frankly, is plain stupid - I don't even understand what it means - Though I do get the fundamental gist that it is arrogant.

As for David (hobctc - Hand Over Back, Cheek To Cheek). He does indeed put capital letters after his '...' just as I do, but I constantly use capitals - I would spell 'Decretal' with a capital which he has not done.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Decretal]

Greetings Alex,

Not a problem. Look, I don't think you're a Freemason... or if you are a Freemason, that you're not behaving in an appropriate way, but that doesn't mean I think you're an irretrievable jerk. It would just be nice if you could stop acting like an arrogant 16 year old who's just discovered philosophy, and wants to let everyone else know just how ignorant they are. Just because people don't constantly spout about something, doesn't mean they don't know anything about it.

It certainly wasn't my intention to act in this way, please accept my apology - even if it is long overdue.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that. It's awfully rough. It seems that these days, people like me who have no real major problems (I have a slight blood sugar thing, but nothing serious) are really in the minority. If you could try to use the simplest vocabulary that fully explains what you want to say, I think you'd find that you would be a lot more successful in, as they say, "winning friends and influencing people." After all, parsimony is the soul of elegance

I actually take full advantage of my 'condition', if I didn't have it then I wouldn't be me! Its not as if it is a disadvantage... Mozart, Einstein, Bill Gates, Beethoven - These are just a few of the people that have endured Asperger's in their day to day lives.

That's not strictly speaking true. The convention that says that, for example, Qabalah is a Christian study while Kabbalah is a Judaic one is fairly recent. Certainly, if you go back to Moses de Leon, you will see that the different spellings were just that, different transliterations. There's no need to have all this messy convergent-spelling stuff in my opinion... let's just state clearly what we mean, and there won't be the need for esoteric spellings.

I will agree with you on that, if we state what we mean then hopefully there will not be any confusion - unfortunately the established authorities can't see the logic in that.

I can't conceive of how one can belong to the Temple of Set (a selfish institution if I have ever heard of one) and simultaneously claim to be a truly dedicated Freemason. That is just my opinion, but I believe that it would be shared by the vast majority of Freemasons. You've actually got to choose -- you can't just dip your toe in every pool and never dive in to one. If you're going to be an unselfish person, then you have to make the Kirkegaardian "Leap of Faith."

I will admit - He is quite selfish and arrogant - You would call me modest if you were top meet him. He does indeed 'stick his toes in both pools', he also claims to have taken the KT Degrees.

I am glad to see that Brotherly Love is being restored here, I was personally getting sick of our arguments.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown

Originally posted by Decretal

The first thing I would say about your analysation is this>insert ellipse< George Bush came to the conclusion that Saddam Hussein was in possession if weapons capable of mass destruction.

On it's own this is good enough evidence. Taken with the other 20 or so reasons to doubt you I believe that you have been proven a liar.

Some of my methods, I will not reveal to you. As Darktalon stated: once revealed, you adapt around them. "Insight" was an example (I'm afraid you overkilled that one though) and I'm not here to give you spelling lessons - only to unmask you as a fraud and a liar.

Your protests are rather lame now. What displays your arrogance and your ignorance to the utmost is that you have been found wanting so many times and yet still falsely protest your innocence. The ridiculous claims that you have made, along with the evidence presented and the evidence that I have U2Ued some of the masons here, means that you will never gain credibility as a freemason here on ATS.

Sure, your alias might be Freemason, and you may even start new accounts as you have done so many times before, but by now I can sniff you out at your 1st or 2nd post - you aren't half as clever as you think you are. As long as you post fraudulently I will keep unmasking you as a liar.

I guess that you are just a sad little ignoramus. Claiming to be something that you are not is the sign of a delusional fool. Claiming to be proficient in that something, makes you a delusional arrogant fool. To think that you can fool other Freemasons into accepting you, makes you a delusional, arrogant, ignorant fool. Heh, I've run out of adjectives to describe you.

Quoted by Leveller

Sure, your alias might be Freemason, and you may even start new accounts as you have done so many times before, but by now I can sniff you out at your 1st or 2nd post - you aren't half as clever as you think you are. As long as you post fraudulently I will keep unmasking you as a liar.

I guess that you are just a sad little ignoramus. Claiming to be something that you are not is the sign of a delusional fool. Claiming to be proficient in that something, makes you a delusional arrogant fool. To think that you can fool other Freemasons into accepting you, makes you a delusional, arrogant, ignorant fool. Heh, I've run out of adjectives to describe you.

Gerard's reply
I have read Decretal's posts and have come to the conclusion that he is a Cowan. If Decretal wants to become a mason then he will have to stop his delusional behaviour and say that he is sorry for his actions. In time I am sure that he could become a Freemason but at the moment no ballot box would be big enough to hold all the black balls. He is in need of help.

Gerard O'Donnell P/M 1316 Dunedin Caritas

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Gerard]

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Gerard]

On it's own this is good enough evidence. Taken with the other 20 or so reasons to doubt you I believe that you have been proven a liar.

Some of my methods, I will not reveal to you. As Darktalon stated: once revealed, you adapt around them. "Insight" was an example (I'm afraid you overkilled that one though) and I'm not here to give you spelling lessons - only to unmask you as a fraud and a liar.

Um, ok... You go do that then.

Your protests are rather lame now. What displays your arrogance and your ignorance to the utmost is that you have been found wanting so many times and yet still falsely protest your innocence. The ridiculous claims that you have made, along with the evidence presented and the evidence that I have U2Ued some of the masons here, means that you will never gain credibility as a freemason here on ATS.

Gee Leveller, that hurt me deep down inside - For me to never gain credibility as a Freemason on a Conspiracy Theory Forum - Why don't you just go ahead and shoot me instead?

Sure, your alias might be Freemason, and you may even start new accounts as you have done so many times before, but by now I can sniff you out at your 1st or 2nd post - you aren't half as clever as you think you are. As long as you post fraudulently I will keep unmasking you as a liar.

You know the funniest thing happened... I think you have a 'MrNECROS Fetish/Perversion' - I was reading the 'ToBeInHisLight' Thread quite some time ago and I had no doubt that it was indeed MrNECROS, until now. For me to be accused of being whoever by you is utterly ridiculous.

I guess that you are just a sad little ignoramus. Claiming to be something that you are not is the sign of a delusional fool. Claiming to be proficient in that something, makes you a delusional arrogant fool. To think that you can fool other Freemasons into accepting you, makes you a delusional, arrogant, ignorant fool. Heh, I've run out of adjectives to describe you.

Yes, well your guess is wrong... And you obviously have a small vocabulary - You used the word 'Claiming' twice, 'delusional' thrice, 'arrogant' twice, and 'ignoramus' which is a variation of 'ignorant', which you also used.

So to sum it all up I will quote none other that you...

Originally posted by Leveller
Bugger off back to the gutter which you oozed out of.

Originally posted by Gerard
I have read Decretal's posts and have come to the conclusion that he is a Cowan.

Gerard, while I respect your tendency to not yell at me... 1. I am offended that you should call me a Cowan.

Originally posted by Gerard
If Decretal wants to become a mason then he will have to stop his delusional behaviour and say that he is sorry for his actions.

and 2. Please note the inexplicably large amount of times I have apologised.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Decretal]

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Decretal]

Originally posted by Decretal
Gee Leveller, that hurt me deep down inside - For me to never gain credibility as a Freemason on a Conspiracy Theory Forum - Why don't you just go ahead and shoot me instead?

You write that as with sarcasm, but it obviously does hurt you. Why else post 50 or so times to keep up this pathetic charade?
You yearn for credibility in the way that no true freemason would. I believe that it pains you more than you let on - the sarcasm is just a cover. Otherwise why post the constant denials? Why post the constant, pathetic rebuttals every time you are caught in a lie? Time after time, you have been caught lying, yet you still feel the need to return and beg for credibility. A bit of a waste of time though, as each time you beg, you get caught in more lies. You're like the kid who gets caught with stolen chocolate smeared around his face and then denies that he has eaten any.

May I remind you of a quote made yesterday by yourself in this very thread:
"I am a Free and Accepted Mason - I have no need to be 'accepted' by a bunch of ignorant fools in a conspiracy chatroom. Which is exactly why I shall now leave."

As we can see by your ensuing posts, the whole thing is just yet another lie. I don't really care how many aliases you have Freemason - they all eventually display your ignorance. I guess it's time you gave up on this one though - it's run it's course and been damaged beyond repair.

Pardon the interruption in the text war here.
I recently left the BV which was heavy in Freemasons, and its odd that a similar situation arose there.
Basically an individual who claimed to be a "Brother" kinda got outa of hand and the other Freemasons responded much like here ..toleratant and avoiding a negative image to the general public.

My question is this: Is there a reason or is coincedental that there was a large community of Freemasons on the previous board and now here.

May we (the general public be allowed to know what a Cowan is?).

JM

As this is a Secret Society forum, I believe that it's only natural that some freemasons should gravitate here. Especially when you read some of the anti-masonic posts. Most of us came here as individuals and ended up staying to defend our Craft in the face of the unreasoned hatred that has been thrown at us. Some stay to give answers to questions given by the genuinely curious. Masonry is not as secretive as many are led to believe and I guess we hope to shed a little bit of light on the subject and show that we aren't what the anti-mason brigade would have everyone believe.

As for the term "cowan" it means "pretender". I have to admit that it is not a word that I would use outside of Lodge, but it does describe Decretal perfectly.

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Leveller]

Originally posted by Leveller
As for the term "cowan" it means "pretender". I have to admit that it is not a word that I would use outside of Lodge, but it does describe Decretal perfectly.

Greetings Leveller, there is no word with which I could possibly describe my disgust with your attitude towrd your fellow Brother.

You have not yet displayed who you really are, your Lodge name and number, jursidiction, affiliations etc.

You reduce yourself to insults - instead of intelligently rebuttling an argument. All you have made is mere speculation.

As for the term 'Cowan', it's actual literal meaning is someone who knows nothings of the Lodge; not a pretender - contrary to what you may believe.

I cannot believe this - you accuse me of displaying copious amounts of arrogances - perhaps you sshould invest in a mirror - you a displaying far more than I.

Perhaps you should take a page out of Alex's book.

Bro. Daniel Brown

Originally posted by jbmitch
I recently left the BV which was heavy in Freemasons, and its odd that a similar situation arose there.

Greetings jbmitch,
May I ask what the 'BV' is?

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown

Originally posted by Leveller
You write that as with sarcasm, but it obviously does hurt you. Why else post 50 or so times to keep up this pathetic charade?
You yearn for credibility in the way that no true freemason would.

Or perhaps I am dedicated to my way of Life... Masonry - I do not appreciate being chastised by the likes of you. You say 'true freemason', no, I am not a 'true freemason' - I am a True Freemason.

I don't really care how many aliases you have Freemason - they all eventually display your ignorance. I guess it's time you gave up on this one though - it's run it's course and been damaged beyond repair.

What the...? You just called me a Freemason - I think you are confused as to whose side you are on. Damaged beyond repair!? I won't even comment on that.

True Brother Daniel Brown

Originally posted by Decretal
Greetings Leveller, there is no word with which I could possibly describe my disgust with your attitude towrd your fellow Brother.

You have not yet displayed who you really are, your Lodge name and number, jursidiction, affiliations etc.

You reduce yourself to insults - instead of intelligently rebuttling an argument. All you have made is mere speculation.

First, let's get this out of the way. You are not my fellow Brother. There are, however, words I can use to describe you.

Secondly, I don't feel the need to explain myself to you. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to prove myself to be accepted. If any Brother doubts me, I don't have a problem with that. Unlike yourself though, I am not the one who has lied and been caught, so my identity is not in question. It's a waste of time trying to fling mud at me to save yourself.

Finally, your accusation that all I have made is speculation is not entirely true. You have proven yourself (without any help from me) that you are a liar. I have intelligently rebutted your arguments. All you have come back with is lame excuse after lame excuse. You haven't even answered the most damning critisisms and have skirted round those that you can't deal with.

I ask you again: how was the post that you deny writing made in your name? The U2U answer is not good enough. As we can see from your post history, you had only just joined. Do you really expect us to believe that 5 posts warranted giving your password to somebody else? I ask you again, why does your posting time exactly correspond to those of the other aliases I have accused you of? Do you honestly suppose we are to believe that all psuedo-masons are Australian?

Originally posted by Decretal

As for the term 'Cowan', it's actual literal meaning is someone who knows nothings of the Lodge; not a pretender - contrary to what you may believe.

This is not actually correct, although I can see where the misunderstanding arose. Typically, within Lodge use, a "Cowan" is considered to be a person with some knowledge of stonemasonry, but who tries to arrogate to himself wages to which he is not entitled. Thus it is symbolically extended to those who protest that they are Freemasons, but in fact are not.

The word typically used in Lodge to refer to those who do not pretend to be Freemasons, but who nonetheless try to claim secrets to which they have no right, is "eavesdropper."

Perhaps you should take a page out of Alex's book.

Please don't say this, as I'm not sure you understand my "book" entirely. I believe Leveller is correct in much of what he says, and if he has an excess, perhaps, of exuberance, it is because he has been sorely tried.

Here is my position: I refuse to take a stance one way or another on your being a Freemason. I consider it quite possible that you are a Freemason in terms of membership, but I feel this is not the relevant issue. The relevant issue is that you have in several ways behaved as a Freemason should not.

1. You have lied about your name (apparently), calling yourself "Daniel Brown" when in fact other posts of yours lead me to believe your name is "Bob Hill."

2. You (or someone to whom you have foolishly lent the use of your account) have posted many ignorant things about Freemasonry (such as the ideas about rank) which will serve only to mislead those who wish to obtain information about our order.

3. You have been fractious with people who you claim as your brethren, and you have (a very bad thing, in my mind) agressively referred to people in a way which they do not wish to be referred (sorry, that's not very clear). If someone doesn't want to be called "brother" by you, don't do it.
I understand that you feel you have been wronged, but we must always remember that if we have not fallen, it is because we have not been sufficiently tempted... i.e. we shouldn't hate people because they have sinned (to our mind), since all of us are succeptible to sin.

Here is what I have to say: I will accept you as a brother when you provide sufficient proof to me that you are a Freemason; however, I will only accept you as a, if you will, "practicing" Freemason when I see that you are living by our obligations.


[edit on 20-6-2004 by AlexKennedy]

Originally posted by Leveller
Finally, your accusation that all I have made is speculation is not entirely true. You have proven yourself (without any help from me) that you are a liar. I have intelligently rebutted your arguments. All you have come back with is lame excuse after lame excuse. You haven't even answered the most damning critisisms and have skirted round those that you can't deal with.

You have intelligently rebuttled my arguments!? How about I leave you with yet another of your posts to answer your own argument...

Why post the constant, pathetic rebuttals every time you are caught in a lie?

Bugger off back to the gutter which you oozed out of.

Judging from this we can easily make the assumption that not only do you not rebuttle (and can't spell it) - but your interpretation of 'intelligent rebuttal' is mere insults. Hardly the conduct of a Mason.

I ask you again, why does your posting time exactly correspond to those of the other aliases I have accused you of?

They don't... obviously there is a pronlem with your clock.

Bro. Daniel Brown

Originally posted by Decretal
Judging from this we can easily make the assumption that not only do you not rebuttle (and can't spell it) - but your interpretation of 'intelligent rebuttal' is mere insults. Hardly the conduct of a Mason.

re�but�tal P Pronunciation Key (r-btl)
n.
The act of rebutting.
A statement made in rebutting.

rebuttal

n 1: the act of refuting by offering a contrary contention or argument 2: a pleading by the defendant in reply to a plaintiff's surrejoinder [syn: rebutter]



As for my conduct as a mason? Critisism coming from you falls on deaf ears.

Originally posted by Leveller
re�but�tal P Pronunciation Key (r-btl)
n.
The act of rebutting.
A statement made in rebutting.

rebuttal

n 1: the act of refuting by offering a contrary contention or argument 2: a pleading by the defendant in reply to a plaintiff's surrejoinder [syn: rebutter]



As for my conduct as a mason? Critisism coming from you falls on deaf ears.

You just proved my point of you not adding value to conversation.

And as for hardly the conduct of a Mason?; you accuse me of hardly displaying the proper conduct.

1. All you have done in this thread is insult me, accused me of lying, and not rebuttled and arguments.

2. I have proven myself more so than you. I took the initiative to put my Lodge name and number, and jurisdiction under public scrutiny - You have done no such thing.

Bro. Daniel Brown

Well I can see your point as the topic of this thread is secert societies.
I think its a part of human nature to fear what you dont know.
I once was part of a running discussion over Free Masonary and all though I never aggreed with them I did make friends with one who at least respected my concerns.
The BV is another conspiracy forum which was the first, that I became a supporting member (gave donations). In respect for this board I wont give the full name without the moderator's permission, although I came across this forum through a url posted on the BV forum.

Without wanting to insult anyones faith/life style or however you feel Freemasonary should be categorized I have grave reservations.
Much like the CAtholic Church, as ever one knows there have been many indiscretions in the recent past involving Priests of that church. This however shouldnt reflect the beliefs of every faithful Catholic. Same goes for Christians, Mormons and other organizations that may resemble religion but cant keep themselves from polictical activism.

Guess this is being luke warm.. but I for feel that humanity is head for a great catlyclism that involves world control with religon as its guise.

Originally posted by Decretal
You just proved my point of you not adding value to conversation.

1. All you have done in this thread is insult me, accused me of lying, and not rebuttled and arguments.

2. I have proven myself more so than you. I took the initiative to put my Lodge name and number, and jurisdiction under public scrutiny - You have done no such thing.

I dunno if you noticed, but you accused me off a spelling mistake. I therefore corrected you.

As for rebutting you? You haven't actually answered any of the accusations put to you, in an honest forthright way. I ask you again: Why would you give somebody access to your account when you've only just joined and why would you have many U2Us when you've only made 4 posts?
Why would somebody use your account to write the obnoxious post that has been displayed?

You have not proven yourself. As already ascertained here - you have lied about who you are once already. There is no question about that. It's in black and white. As already stated by yourself, the Lodge that you claim is not operating. Your credentials are therefore meaningless. I much prefer to take the evidence that you've already given and analyse that. You, yourself have already stated that you aren't suprised that people have doubted you.

As for my credentials, I have already told you: I have no burning desire to prove myself as you have. I feel comfortable with who I am. I don't need to call everyone "Brother" or have a childish desire to be accepted. As I said before, you can try and twist the argument and build suspicion around me, but I couldn't care less.
I will never accept you.

[edit on 21-6-2004 by Leveller]

Originally posted by Decretal

Originally posted by Leveller
Finally, your accusation that all I have made is speculation is not entirely true. You have proven yourself (without any help from me) that you are a liar. I have intelligently rebutted your arguments. All you have come back with is lame excuse after lame excuse. You haven't even answered the most damning critisisms and have skirted round those that you can't deal with.

You have intelligently rebuttled my arguments!? How about I leave you with yet another of your posts to answer your own argument...

Why post the constant, pathetic rebuttals every time you are caught in a lie?

Bugger off back to the gutter which you oozed out of.

Judging from this we can easily make the assumption that not only do you not rebuttle (and can't spell it) - but your interpretation of 'intelligent rebuttal' is mere insults. Hardly the conduct of a Mason.

I ask you again, why does your posting time exactly correspond to those of the other aliases I have accused you of?

They don't... obviously there is a pronlem with your clock.

Bro. Daniel Brown

Wow, bad case of selective reading. Seems Leveller has brought up many, many points of rebuttal. It is you that hasn't countered those rebuttals. And please, I will go back through all of Levellers, ME's, Alex's, Mine, and everyone else that brought points up, that you have yet to prove or disprove.

Here's an analogy, my son sits at dinner, not eating. I tell him to eat, he replys "I aaaaaammmmm", and procedes to sit there. I say "Please eat" he says "I aaaaaammmm", and still just sits there. I say "No your not, your just sitting there" he says "Daddy, I aaaaammmm". Granted he's 3, whats your excuse?

Again I say, put-up or shut-up.

BTW- I believe he called you Freemason, cause that was one of your past avatar names, or atleast he thinks/knows it was.

Originally posted by Darktalon
Wow, bad case of selective reading. Seems Leveller has brought up many, many points of rebuttal. It is you that hasn't countered those rebuttals. And please, I will go back through all of Levellers, ME's, Alex's, Mine, and everyone else that brought points up, that you have yet to prove or disprove.

Alex and I are not arguing; Leveller is only insulting me; who is ME?; and you are only analysing my handwriting.

BTW- I believe he called you Freemason, cause that was one of your past avatar names, or atleast he thinks/knows it was.

Well as ML suggested in the 'ToBeInHisLight' thread - Why not simply check my IP address?

Bro. Daniel Brown