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Are we brothers with five?

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posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 06:38 PM
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Mmmmm... soup. Listen, let me tell you something, a nice Sacristy may convince a person who's comfortable and already in Church that, you know, God and niceness are the way to go, but if you want to convince someone who's hungry, a nice bowl of really good soup is definitely the way.

[edit on 17-6-2004 by AlexKennedy]




posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 07:31 PM
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Nice thing to do DTOM....


I personally like to give to the Make Wish Foundation myself.....
Serves people who need it.

Yes .... I do know what the bible says about tithing and what SHOULD NOT be done with it... But, not a good discussion to have now... ha ha ha



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 07:27 AM
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My apologies for going so far off topic. *sigh* So easy to get side-tracked!

Please resume the topic.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Decretal
You do not know me, you have never met me, you have no idea of what my values are


I do. Your values are lower than a snake's belly.
You are a liar and a fraud. Why don't you give it up? You haven't added anything of interest to this forum: in fact the only time you've posted recently is to keep up the charade of being a mason. The desperation that you show to be accepted is laughable.

Bugger off back to the gutter which you oozed out of.


Greetings disgraced Brethren and Fellows,
Leveller, I have refuted and rebuttled everyone of your arguments - so you reduce yourself to simply insulting me... pathetic.

Lately I made an attempt to add something of interest and contribute to this forum, and look where it got me simply because I stated Truth.

I am a Free and Accepted Mason - I have no need to be 'accepted' by a bunch of ignorant fools in a conspiracy chatroom. Which is exactly why I shall now leave. I will stay and keep watch if anything interesting pops up - but Leveller, Gerard, Alex, DontTreadOnMe, and Mirthful Me - don't bother trying to make conversation with me.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by Decretal
Blah, blah, blah. Yet more lies.


For any brother who has doubts about Decretal's claim may I just point you to his post in this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Decretal. I have no wish to converse with you either. But if you post as a freemason on this forum, you will find me not far behind you.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Decretal
Blah, blah, blah. Yet more lies.


For any brother who has doubts about Decretal's claim may I just point you to his post in this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Decretal. I have no wish to converse with you either. But if you post as a freemason on this forum, you will find me not far behind you.


Greetings Brethren and Fellows,
As for the first quote, I don't know where Levller pulled that one from - I never wrote that.

And the second one - This is going to sound like a really poor, unbelievable excuse - But I didn't write that. I don't know who did, but it certainly wasn't me.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown

[edit on 19-6-2004 by Decretal]



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 05:50 AM
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My quote of you was just a summing up of everything that you have said so far.


Um. It's under your name, in your profile. Just click "Find Posts". There aren't two Decretal's registered at ATS. Even if there were, that post was made with your account.

So you're claiming that somebody else secretly hacked your account and posted under your psuedonym?
You're right. It is a really poor, unbelievable excuse.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller
My quote of you was just a summing up of everything that you have said so far.


Um. It's under your name, in your profile. Just click "Find Posts". There aren't two Decretal's registered at ATS. Even if there were, that post was made with your account.

So you're claiming that somebody else secretly hacked your account and posted under your psuedonym?
You're right. It is a really poor, unbelievable excuse.


Greetings Leveller,
Please do not quote under my name in your own words - It can cause much confusion.

I completely agree, it is a really poor, unbelieveable excuse. But in the past when my net has been down I have asked friends to log in and print off my U2U's - Something may have happened then. You seem to be the expert on analysing qriting styles - So you can go figure it out.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by Decretal
I am a Free and Accepted Mason - I have no need to be 'accepted' by a bunch of ignorant fools in a conspiracy chatroom. Which is exactly why I shall now leave. I will stay and keep watch if anything interesting pops up - but Leveller, Gerard, Alex, DontTreadOnMe, and Mirthful Me - don't bother trying to make conversation with me.


Yes, this is certainly showing the old Masonic spirit, eh, Decretal? You've without a doubt proved you're a better person than the rest of us.

What I'm curious about is that you claim you're going to take off, and generally leave us alone (possibly a sympathy ploy?) and that we shouldn't bother trying to make conversation with you, and then you come right back and start making excuses for yourself.

By the way, I'm still not clear... what is your name, Daniel Brown or Bob Hill?


Originally posted by Decretal
I completely agree, it is a really poor, unbelieveable excuse. But in the past when my net has been down I have asked friends to log in and print off my U2U's - Something may have happened then. You seem to be the expert on analysing qriting styles - So you can go figure it out.


This is also odd... I refered to this earlier in possibly this thread or another, and your excuse at that time was that you were foolish a long time ago, but that you've outgrown it now. Ah, well, maybe that was the other person using your account who made that excuse.

Oh, wait... I actually found the post. It is post number 598247, Post I.D. 618941. I had said


Just wanted to be sure. I've said it once, and I'll say it again: I don't know if Decretal is a Mason or not. It's possible he is. But with all his talk of "rank," and his nonsense about "belonging to groups both dark and light," and his generally arrogant attitude toward ofther posters (which is present in your post as well... hmmmm), he's not (to my mind) a very good Mason.


earlier in the thread. Your response was



And as for my obsession with rank; check the date of my rank posts and you will see that it was a long time ago - I have since begun studying regularly at the Nan Tien Buddhist Temple and I am now a peaceful person unless provoked - as I was in that thread. You may notice that after Leveller said 'Bring It On', I calmed down as I knew I was beginning to get out of hand and I didn't want to start another 'ToBeInHisLight' episode.


So which is it? Are your flaws due to some mysterious "not me" who posts in your name, or are you now an enlightened Buddhist? (By the way, I know Buddhists, I lived at a Buddhist temple, and you sir, are no Buddhist (This is strictly speaking not true... of course, even Buddhists can act foolishly)).

The irony of this to me is that with your "apology" post there, if you had stopped all the lying (for example, told us what your actual name is rather than posting as "Dan Brown") then I might have even believed you were a Freemason, depite your deep misunderstanding of the nature of "paths" up the Tree of the Sefirot (they're not good and evil or "light" and "dark," "Dan.")

Instead, you kept up this nonsense. Ah, well.

P.S., here is the post in question that Leveller linked to, now made erase-proof!

Originally posted by Decretal


Originally posted by 2012
Conspiracy theoriest are completely wrong about Masonry. Any Mason interested in taking over the world would be expelled from Masonry.

I'm a Master Mason. If anyone wishes to ask anything about Masonry other than those items about which we are pledged to remain secret (and the secrets do not include "ruling the world"),he or she may e-mail me at roneal3@cfl.rr.com (or bob@onealclan.com)



(Cough, cough)... Ok, so your a Master Mason are you? Well lowly apprentice, you would know what I mean when I say 'Deus meumque jus', everyone on ATS would. But you would be one of the few to know what I mean by 'Tubal Cain', if my memory serves me correctly. But would you know what I mean by 'Non nobis, domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!'... You may, but I doubt it. Would you know the affairs of our higher degrees and ranks... NO. So before you go parading around forums advertising your affiliation and stating your opinions on things you would know nothing about, stop and think.


[edit on 19-6-2004 by AlexKennedy]



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy

Originally posted by Decretal
I am a Free and Accepted Mason - I have no need to be 'accepted' by a bunch of ignorant fools in a conspiracy chatroom. Which is exactly why I shall now leave. I will stay and keep watch if anything interesting pops up - but Leveller, Gerard, Alex, DontTreadOnMe, and Mirthful Me - don't bother trying to make conversation with me.


Yes, this is certainly showing the old Masonic spirit, eh, Decretal? You've without a doubt proved you're a better person than the rest of us.

What I'm curious about is that you claim you're going to take off, and generally leave us alone (possibly a sympathy ploy?) and that we shouldn't bother trying to make conversation with you, and then you come right back and start making excuses for yourself.

By the way, I'm still not clear... what is your name, Daniel Brown or Bob Hill?


Originally posted by Decretal
I completely agree, it is a really poor, unbelieveable excuse. But in the past when my net has been down I have asked friends to log in and print off my U2U's - Something may have happened then. You seem to be the expert on analysing qriting styles - So you can go figure it out.


This is also odd... I refered to this earlier in possibly this thread or another, and your excuse at that time was that you were foolish a long time ago, but that you've outgrown it now. Ah, well, maybe that was the other person using your account who made that excuse.

Oh, wait... I actually found the post. It is post number 598247, Post I.D. 618941. I had said


Just wanted to be sure. I've said it once, and I'll say it again: I don't know if Decretal is a Mason or not. It's possible he is. But with all his talk of "rank," and his nonsense about "belonging to groups both dark and light," and his generally arrogant attitude toward ofther posters (which is present in your post as well... hmmmm), he's not (to my mind) a very good Mason.


earlier in the thread. Your response was



And as for my obsession with rank; check the date of my rank posts and you will see that it was a long time ago - I have since begun studying regularly at the Nan Tien Buddhist Temple and I am now a peaceful person unless provoked - as I was in that thread. You may notice that after Leveller said 'Bring It On', I calmed down as I knew I was beginning to get out of hand and I didn't want to start another 'ToBeInHisLight' episode.


So which is it? Are your flaws due to some mysterious "not me" who posts in your name, or are you now an enlightened Buddhist? (By the way, I know Buddhists, I lived at a Buddhist temple, and you sir, are no Buddhist (This is strictly speaking not true... of course, even Buddhists can act foolishly)).

The irony of this to me is that with your "apology" post there, if you had stopped all the lying (for example, told us what your actual name is rather than posting as "Dan Brown") then I might have even believed you were a Freemason, depite your deep misunderstanding of the nature of "paths" up the Tree of the Sefirot (they're not good and evil or "light" and "dark," "Dan.")

Instead, you kept up this nonsense. Ah, well.

P.S., here is the post in question that Leveller linked to, now made erase-proof!

Originally posted by Decretal


Originally posted by 2012
Conspiracy theoriest are completely wrong about Masonry. Any Mason interested in taking over the world would be expelled from Masonry.

I'm a Master Mason. If anyone wishes to ask anything about Masonry other than those items about which we are pledged to remain secret (and the secrets do not include "ruling the world"),he or she may e-mail me at roneal3@cfl.rr.com (or bob@onealclan.com)



(Cough, cough)... Ok, so your a Master Mason are you? Well lowly apprentice, you would know what I mean when I say 'Deus meumque jus', everyone on ATS would. But you would be one of the few to know what I mean by 'Tubal Cain', if my memory serves me correctly. But would you know what I mean by 'Non nobis, domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!'... You may, but I doubt it. Would you know the affairs of our higher degrees and ranks... NO. So before you go parading around forums advertising your affiliation and stating your opinions on things you would know nothing about, stop and think.


[edit on 19-6-2004 by AlexKennedy]


Having read the many posts that this person has made. I stand by what I have written. He is NOT A Brother. Until this Decretal proves himself to be a Freemason he will be regarded as a Cowan.

Brother Gerard P/M 1316 Dunedin Caritas



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by Gerard
Having read the many posts that this person has made. I stand by what I have written. He is NOT A Brother. Until this Decretal proves himself to be a Freemason he will be regarded as a Cowan.

Brother Gerard P/M 1316 Dunedin Caritas


Perhaps in your eyes Bro. Gerard, but not in the eyes of True Brothers.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy

So which is it? Are your flaws due to some mysterious "not me" who posts in your name, or are you now an enlightened Buddhist? (By the way, I know Buddhists, I lived at a Buddhist temple, and you sir, are no Buddhist (This is strictly speaking not true... of course, even Buddhists can act foolishly)).

The irony of this to me is that with your "apology" post there, if you had stopped all the lying (for example, told us what your actual name is rather than posting as "Dan Brown") then I might have even believed you were a Freemason, depite your deep misunderstanding of the nature of "paths" up the Tree of the Sefirot (they're not good and evil or "light" and "dark," "Dan.")

Instead, you kept up this nonsense. Ah, well.

[edit on 19-6-2004 by AlexKennedy]


Greetings Alex,
There are other posts in which I displayed an obsession with rank, that one does not display my writing style - who on earth puts verbs in brackets? And no, I am not a Buddhist - But I have lived and studied at the Nan Tien Buddhist Temple at Wollongong, Australia; and for the time that I was there I felt a 'new me' emerge - A feeling to superfluos for words.

Your second comment about your so-called 'sefirot', this was even funnier due to you attempt to mock me. First of all, it is Sephiroth, and second... Shows what you know - I never said they were divided into good and evil - I said Darkness and Light; which is completely true - Ask any practising Qabalist that studies the Oz Chaiim.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Decretal

Originally posted by Gerard
Having read the many posts that this person has made. I stand by what I have written. He is NOT A Brother. Until this Decretal proves himself to be a Freemason he will be regarded as a Cowan.

Brother Gerard P/M 1316 Dunedin Caritas


Perhaps in your eyes Bro. Gerard, but not in the eyes of True Brothers.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown


It would be so easy to prove that you are a Freemason of a lodge that is Regular. I have stated on my posts the Lodge that I am a Past Master of. You Sir, have done nothing to prove that you are a genuine Brother. There are many Freemasons who post on this board and they have doubts about your Masonic credentials. It would be so easy for you to prove that you are genuine Freemason and not a Cowan. I presume that you know what a Cowan is.

Brother Gerard P/M 1316 Dunedin Caritas



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by Decretal
A feeling to superfluos for words.


Too "superfluous" for words, eh? Something about people who live in glass houses comes to mind.



Your second comment about your so-called 'sefirot', this was even funnier due to you attempt to mock me. First of all, it is Sephiroth,


Hmmmm... since the word is Aramaic, I'm surprised that you apprently have the lock on the "correct" transliteration. Given that, you can find credible web sites with the spelling "Sephirot" here, here, here, here, here, and here. There are many more, but there's no need to clog up the board with links. By the way, when I looked up "Sephiroth" the first three pages were refernces to a character from Final Fantasy VII... sure you're not confused?



and second... Shows what you know - I never said they were divided into good and evil - I said Darkness and Light; which is completely true - Ask any practising Qabalist that studies the Oz Chaiim.


Are you by any chance referring to the "Otz Chaiim?" I only ask because I know what a stickler for spelling you are. Let me ask, why do you say "Otz Chaiim" rather than "Tree of Life?" Do you have some weird neural disorder where you find it necessary to use more complicated or non-English words where English ones will do? Perhaps you are just trying to show up your "lessers." Well, that's certainly Masonic behaviour at its best (that's sarcasm, by the way).

What do you mean by a "practicing Qabalist," by the way? Do you mean the "practical Kabbalah?" (I don't like the Q-spelling myself, although it is of course equally valid) Do you mean those who study the Qabala in order to perform "magic?" In that case, no, I couldn't be called one. If you mean those who study the Kabbalah, then yes, I'd count myself as one, and no, I don't see how you could possibly refer to "dark" and "light" paths up the Tree of Life. (By the way, you say ask any "practicing Qabalist" who studies the Otz Chaiim... are you implying that there are practicing Qabalists who don't? I'm very interested in what "Qabala" looks like stripped of its structure and the Sephirot.)



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by Gerard
It would be so easy to prove that you are a Freemason of a lodge that is Regular. I have stated on my posts the Lodge that I am a Past Master of. You Sir, have done nothing to prove that you are a genuine Brother. There are many Freemasons who post on this board and they have doubts about your Masonic credentials. It would be so easy for you to prove that you are genuine Freemason and not a Cowan. I presume that you know what a Cowan is.

Brother Gerard P/M 1316 Dunedin Caritas


Brother Gerard,
I realise there are many Masons on this board that have their doubts about my Masonic credentials - Hence the reason we are now arguing.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy
Hmmmm... since the word is Aramaic, I'm surprised that you apprently have the lock on the "correct" transliteration. Given that, you can find credible web sites with the spelling "Sephirot" here, here, here, here, here, and here. There are many more, but there's no need to clog up the board with links. By the way, when I looked up "Sephiroth" the first three pages were refernces to a character from Final Fantasy VII... sure you're not confused?


I apologise for the misunderstanding there, I have not yet come across those websites - I have seen it spelt many ways, I personally spell it the way it is spelt in the Gnosis of Kali Yuga


Originally posted by AlexKennedy
Are you by any chance referring to the "Otz Chaiim?" I only ask because I know what a stickler for spelling you are. Let me ask, why do you say "Otz Chaiim" rather than "Tree of Life?" Do you have some weird neural disorder where you find it necessary to use more complicated or non-English words where English ones will do? Perhaps you are just trying to show up your "lessers." Well, that's certainly Masonic behaviour at its best (that's sarcasm, by the way).


Sorry about that... typo, yes I endure Asperger's Syndrome, I enjoy the regular use of complex vocabulary.


Originally posted by AlexKennedy
What do you mean by a "practicing Qabalist," by the way? Do you mean the "practical Kabbalah?" (I don't like the Q-spelling myself, although it is of course equally valid) Do you mean those who study the Qabala in order to perform "magic?" In that case, no, I couldn't be called one. If you mean those who study the Kabbalah, then yes, I'd count myself as one, and no, I don't see how you could possibly refer to "dark" and "light" paths up the Tree of Life. (By the way, you say ask any "practicing Qabalist" who studies the Otz Chaiim... are you implying that there are practicing Qabalists who don't? I'm very interested in what "Qabala" looks like stripped of its structure and the Sephirot.)


Qabalah, Kabbalah, Cabala, Kabala, Qabala - They are all different things. I cannot believe you have not yet come across the Paths of Darkness and Light of the Qabalah. However, I am not an expert on this subject; so I shall invite my Friend and Brother - Rev. Setnakt Korozan from the Temple of Set. He is quite the authority on Qabalah. There are those who claim to be >insert spelling for 'Qabalah' here< yet do not study the Otz Chaiim.

Regards,
Bro. Daniel Brown



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by Decretal
I apologise for the misunderstanding there, I have not yet come across those websites - I have seen it spelt many ways, I personally spell it the way it is spelt in the Gnosis of Kali Yuga


Not a problem. Look, I don't think you're a Freemason... or if you are a Freemason, that you're not behaving in an appropriate way, but that doesn't mean I think you're an irretrievable jerk. It would just be nice if you could stop acting like an arrogant 16 year old who's just discovered philosophy, and wants to let everyone else know just how ignorant they are. Just because people don't constantly spout about something, doesn't mean they don't know anything about it.



Sorry about that... typo, yes I endure Asperger's Syndrome, I enjoy the regular use of complex vocabulary.


Well, I'm sorry to hear that. It's awfully rough. It seems that these days, people like me who have no real major problems (I have a slight blood sugar thing, but nothing serious) are really in the minority. If you could try to use the simplest vocabulary that fully explains what you want to say, I think you'd find that you would be a lot more successful in, as they say, "winning friends and influencing people." After all, parsimony is the soul of elegance




Qabalah, Kabbalah, Cabala, Kabala, Qabala - They are all different things.


That's not strictly speaking true. The convention that says that, for example, Qabalah is a Christian study while Kabbalah is a Judaic one is fairly recent. Certainly, if you go back to Moses de Leon, you will see that the different spellings were just that, different transliterations. There's no need to have all this messy convergent-spelling stuff in my opinion... let's just state clearly what we mean, and there won't be the need for esoteric spellings.



I cannot believe you have not yet come across the Paths of Darkness and Light of the Qabalah.


There are authorities who believe that one can approach the Godhead by different paths "up" the Tree of Life, but they do not refer to these paths as "dark" and "light." Sometimes, they are referred to as "rational" and "intuitive," but that is not the same thing. (Plus, of course, the same authorities will tell you that there is another path, right up the central pillar, so what would that be... "kind of darkish, but not so bad?") If you use "dark" and "light," you're inevitably going to run into the difficulty that you may mean "selfish" and "decent" or some such thing. Why not use "Apollonic" and "Dionysian?"



However, I am not an expert on this subject; so I shall invite my Friend and Brother - Rev. Setnakt Korozan from the Temple of Set.


I can't conceive of how one can belong to the Temple of Set (a selfish institution if I have ever heard of one) and simultaneously claim to be a truly dedicated Freemason. That is just my opinion, but I believe that it would be shared by the vast majority of Freemasons. You've actually got to choose -- you can't just dip your toe in every pool and never dive in to one. If you're going to be an unselfish person, then you have to make the Kirkegaardian "Leap of Faith."



He is quite the authority on Qabalah. There are those who claim to be >insert spelling for 'Qabalah' here< yet do not study the Otz Chaiim.


What exactly do they study, then? The Zohar, for example, does not appear to stick to a rigid "Tree" as it is typically envisioned, but the structure is still there.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Decretal
But in the past when my net has been down I have asked friends to log in and print off my U2U's - Something may have happened then. You seem to be the expert on analysing qriting styles - So you can go figure it out.


Having analysed it, I think we can safely assume that it was written by your good self. Not only is the tone of the content yours, but the punctuation is the same. We see plenty of use of ".......", just as you have used in this thread.

For example:

"Fake" Decretal: - "But would you know what I mean by 'Non nobis, domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!'... You may, but I doubt it."

Decretal in this thread:- "First of all, it is Sephiroth, and second... Shows what you know"

We can also see the same use and style in the original post in this thread which was also written by you as "hobctc".

hobtc:- "Should decretal have his membership restated here on the board ... You will find a great and enormous depth of knowledge can be applied and shared by him."

Maybe not unusual in itself is the use of "......" - after all, many people in this thread have used it and I don't accuse them of being frauds. What is unusual though, is that it hasn't been correctly used in all of the above instances. The appropriate punctuation would have been a hyphen, a colon, or it should not have been used at all. You can also see that the "........" is also followed by a capital letter which is also unique in this case.

Also, all instances of the use of "..." are 3 dots. Not 4 or 5, but 3. What are the chances of 3 separate posters all adopting the exact same amount of punctuation marks and the following capital letter? For example: Alex uses 3 but he never follows up with a capital letter. JCM sometimes follows up with a capital letter but he uses different numbers of dots. Me? I'm the same - I just hit the full stop button and take my finger off when I feel like it.
The only consistent use of this type of punctuation is made by your so-called doppleganger, hobtc and yourself.


Your claims that your offending post could have been written by somebody else are even more dubious when it is also realised that the post was written at around about the time that you first joined ATS. I believe that this was your 5th post - hardly enough time to amass any amount of U2Us or to warrant somebody else gaining access to your account to supply them to you.

You're a fraud and a liar and not even a very good one at that.












[edit on 19-6-2004 by Leveller]



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
For example: Alex uses 3 but he never follows up with a capital letter.


Holy crow, Leveller, you're some kind of smart. I hadn't realised that I used ellipses this way myself, until I looked back at the way I actually use them.

Actually, Umberto Eco's "How not to Use Suspension Points" tells us not to use them at all, generally... (arggh! I just did it!) but I can't help myself


[edit on 19-6-2004 by AlexKennedy]



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 04:30 PM
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Well done Leveller, many people don't know they have tendances when they write. Dectral seems to be aware of this to some extent, and writes many of his posts in a very controlled and thoughtout way, ie many paragraphs, even single line paragraphs. He also shows restraint and restricked thought, which many people do when they have to seperate information(which often times means they are not speaking from experiance), ie posting 2 or 3 times in a row just to address 2 to 3 seperate posts.

Finally, from my experiance with Masons, though I admit it is limitied, I have come to the conclusion that if faced on these boards(or anywhere else) and at this length, that a true mason would not feel the need to justify himself to this great length.

I'm not a mason, and I really don't care if you are or are not, I think it sad to claim you are if your are not, but the world is full of pathetic people. Unless you really prove that you are who you say you are, there is nothing you can say to persuade these Masons that you are one of them.

So, simply said, put up or shut up. I suggest the latter.




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