Contrails. What Else?

Originally posted by B3lz3buth
The chemtrails claims are true, i read a thread on that recently, government admit that they spray aliminium-oxide (among other stuff) to fight the global warming ( aluminium reflect solar rays )

(im sorry i can't find the thread there so many about chemtrails.)

MY PERSONNAL proof that chemtrails are real : im 36 yo, i recall the 80' and 90' and i never see the sky like today NEVER, i remember only normal contrails. They change the gas they put in planes you said ? maybe.

You can see the difference by yourself just by observing the planes.

the normal contrail last about 5-12 minutes and vanish

the chemtrails last for hours and spread in width, if there sun you can see a rainbow reflecting in the chemical cloud.

some days i can't see a single chemtrail but i still see contrails, sky is clear blue and im near 3 major airports so there alot of traffic everyday.

the configuration of the trails, look the tic-tac-toe pattern in one of your pics ther is no way it is a normal fly path , the plane CIRCLE around airport waiting to land and because of winds, runaways are oriented in the same direction

[edit on 11/7/2010 by B3lz3buth]

So much to debunk, where to begin?
* I looked at the contrails when I was young, because my Dad flew every week. They look the same now as they did then. I'm 49, so saw them before you didn't see them. You just didn't notice them until you found the "chemtrail myth" on the internet. Timing is right, too. Many times people will say similar, but it's always a different number of years, usually in line with how long they've been on the internet.
* Contrails can persist for hours because they are water and soot, just like a cloud. Clouds last for hours, don't they? So can contrails.
* Colors in the clouds are called irridescence. Here's a published work about why there is colors in the clouds:
chestofbooks.com...
It was published in 1887, when the Wrights were still kids. Color in clouds happens ALL THE TIME. You just don't look at clouds enough to notice. Well, until you read that colors in clouds are sure signs of a "chemtrails". Then you see it.
* Contrails spread out very, very far. Here's a published paper on the observations of a small number of contrails alone in the sky so they could be easily studied and measured. They studied the sky on September 12, 2001, when only a known number of planes were in the air. It's quite a good read.
www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...
For those who will not read it, six contrails from military jets spread out to 7898.11 square miles of contrail-induced cirrus cloud cover, and persisted between two to TEN HOURS before dissipating. Real numbers used as real facts.
* "X" and "tic-tac-toe" patterns happen because planes fly in different directions. Some fly N-S, some fly E-W. When they leave contrails, the trails will cross. Why do people have to be told that?
* There are no credible tests done on a contrail that has ever found anything other than the expected by-products of combustion of jet fuel through a jet engine. Do you have a report that shows what you claim? Please, give a citation. Lots of people are looking for it, and it has not been found yet.

edited to make a comma a decimal point. oops, big difference.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by stars15k]

Ok you guys,
I'm going to say a little "silly" here.
I couldn't edit to add to my last post, but here ya go.

You are in a room.... only one person is with you. All of a sudden it starts to stink when before, it had a good smell in the room. You suspect something is amiss however you can NOT prove it. From past experiences with and knowing some of this person's character, I suspect it is them that did this stink!

I can accuse someone of this, however I will never be able to get proof of ...unless I get my hands dirty . lol..

I can not prove someone farted! Same with cons/chems...it's kind of hard to get evidence of proof !...

The only way that we would ever know for sure (of ANYthing, really) is to have actual proof in hand or an admittance.

A Better example that some things are hard to prove...now? lol I could accuse you all day long... and get nowhere. How do you prove these things ... Easier said than done.

reply to post by SeekerLou


No, it's actually very easy. The first published scientific paper that I was able to find on contrails was from 1927. There has been much studied, published, peer-reviewed research done since, by many different entities, nationalities, and disciplines. Some of these tests include in situ sampling, which is done often. There are companies whose sole purpose is outfitting planes to sample and test the atmosphere including contrails. Their findings are easy to find, with research straying from the "chemtrail" proponents. These findings have been discussed here, on ATS before. The only thing found has been what is expected. That is emperical fact, supported report to report, year to year.
To claim "chemtrails" are real, the onus is upon the claimant to prove the difference. It's not a matter of believing, it's a matter of FACTS.

reply to post by stars15k


Quesstion, are there any active member pilots here at ATS whose character has been proven honest, etc...that has done this testing personally and found nothing?

Ever heard of people being paid off at the labs? Or of folks getting several different experts whose opinions differed. then getting to choose which result they will use which best best suits their needs ? I have.

As stated in earlier posts, I'm only stating opinion and nothing as a fact. Anything is possible For it sure wouldn't be the first time folk have been experimented upon admittedly...so if it had happened before, and it has, it's most likely to happen again...be it chemtrails or not.

reply to post by SeekerLou


It must be awfully difficult to live in a state of fear and suspicion.
It's why I chose the science view. Our understanding of science grows, but the laws remain the same.
When tests are done, supporting the findings of other tests, and they are done by many people who are experts in their fields, I trust that they know more than I do. I know enough to see their method is good, too.

When facts mean nothing, you enter the world of mythology. When people who are not experts do tests, and use bad method, they have no credibility. When they use their results to formulate theories, they are only continuing to spread fear, suspicion, and ignorance.
Facts still matter in the real world. Myths.......not so much.

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by SeekerLou

 

It must be awfully difficult to live in a state of fear and suspicion.
It's why I chose the science view. Our understanding of science grows, but the laws remain the same.
When tests are done, supporting the findings of other tests, and they are done by many people who are experts in their fields, I trust that they know more than I do. I know enough to see their method is good, too.

When facts mean nothing, you enter the world of mythology. When people who are not experts do tests, and use bad method, they have no credibility. When they use their results to formulate theories, they are only continuing to spread fear, suspicion, and ignorance.
Facts still matter in the real world. Myths.......not so much.

ummm..lol who said I was in a state of fear? Mind proving that one? I do stay alert and am privy to how sneaky people CAN be though...You have to look out for yourself for no one else will , sheez, lol. Surely you've heard the saying. Bet you've never been 'had' , eh?

umm..All I said was that chems could be possible, imo, and asked if a pilot is on ATS that did a test here.
The fear of chemtrails has already been around...so I'm not spreading ANYthing... but most likely THEY probably ARE.

As far as the choosing the science view: I do not always agree with what some science tries to tell me either. for one, i.e. My ancesters were nOT monkeys... .just saying...

[edit on 12-7-2010 by SeekerLou]

Originally posted by SeekerLou

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by SeekerLou

 

It must be awfully difficult to live in a state of fear and suspicion.
It's why I chose the science view. Our understanding of science grows, but the laws remain the same.
When tests are done, supporting the findings of other tests, and they are done by many people who are experts in their fields, I trust that they know more than I do. I know enough to see their method is good, too.

When facts mean nothing, you enter the world of mythology. When people who are not experts do tests, and use bad method, they have no credibility. When they use their results to formulate theories, they are only continuing to spread fear, suspicion, and ignorance.
Facts still matter in the real world. Myths.......not so much.

ummm..lol who said I was in a state of fear? Mind proving that one? I do stay alert and am privy to how sneaky people CAN be though...You have to look out for yourself for no one else will , sheez, lol. Surely you've heard the saying. Bet you've never been 'had' , eh?

umm..All I said was that chems could be possible, imo, and asked if a pilot is on ATS that did a test here.
The fear of chemtrails has already been around...so I'm not spreading ANYthing... but most likely THEY probably ARE.

As far as the choosing the science view: I do not always agree with what some science tries to tell me either. for one, i.e. My ancesters were nOT monkeys... .just saying...

[edit on 12-7-2010 by SeekerLou]

Well with that logic, contrails could be made of Pixie Dust and Unicorn Farts too. No one has proven to me otherwise.

Chemtrails is like a religion to its believers. They have faith that aircraft contrails are really made up of something else, even with no actual evidence of it. And attacking this "faith" automatically makes one into the enemy, often getting labeled as a government agent.

Its a simplistic mindset that requires a fair degree of ignorance about aviation and meteorology. Their idea of research is just talking to other chemtrail believers, and after a while they use their own speculation as evidence in itself of chemtrails.

In their view, aircraft trails should never intersect at certain angles, nor should they ever be parallel, and there is no such thing as cirrus, nor should water or cirrus last longer than a few seconds, well because they read it on a chemtrail website.

Some even think aerial refuelling is just a chemtrail ruse, and that cirrus did not even exist until chemtrails created it.

Firepilot,

"contrails could be made of Pixie Dust and Unicorn Farts too"

lol .. Well IF there were such things, that would serve one's purpose and put it in there -I agree!... Anything could be put AnyWHERE. All things are possible is my point. Again..never stating chemtrails as FACT.
--------------------------------------------------------

"Chemtrails is like a religion to its believers. They have faith that aircraft contrails are really made up of something else, even with no actual evidence of it. And attacking this "faith" automatically makes one into the enemy, often getting labeled as a government agent. "
-----------
I hear ya... but I certainly am not that type..nor did I make anyone out to be a govt agent ...I HOPE you weren't implying me. Maybe you should reread to see who did that.
---------------------
Its a simplistic mindset that requires a fair degree of ignorance about aviation and meteorology. Their idea of research is just talking to other chemtrail believers, and after a while they use their own speculation as evidence in itself of chemtrails.
----------------------------------------------
I understand the aviation and meteorology side...it FITs ..
But have you seen/read THIS, "History Secret Experiments Conducted on US Citizens" thread?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe this will help you to see where I'm coming from. Experiments have been known to happen, and it COULD be happening now ...
----------------------------------------------------------------.
In their view, aircraft trails should never intersect at certain angles, nor should they ever be parallel, and there is no such thing as cirrus, nor should water or cirrus last longer than a few seconds, well because they read it on a chemtrail website.
------------------------------------------
I don't have THAT view.
---------------------------------
Some even think aerial refuelling is just a chemtrail ruse, and that cirrus did not even exist until chemtrails created it.
------------------
I hear ya.. but .. again, I don't have that view.


[edit on 13-7-2010 by SeekerLou]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by SeekerLou]

they are laid out in a grid pattern from east to west , as to follow the sun.
2x per week in phx. az. i went to nano 911- tanker enemy- etc.
angels dont play this haarp- darpa projects.
odd thing- john mccain steers a deal for the mrtt 336 tanker deal
for 57bill in new jet tankers. ?
you tell me .

Originally posted by SeekerLou

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by SeekerLou

 

umm..All I said was that chems could be possible, imo, and asked if a pilot is on ATS that did a test here.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by SeekerLou]

Pilots fly planes. Scientists perform tests.

So find an scientist who does this kind of test......oh, wait. You don't believe everything science.
Maintaining theory by avoidance is not credible.

Originally posted by stars15k

Originally posted by SeekerLou

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by SeekerLou

 

umm..All I said was that chems could be possible, imo, and asked if a pilot is on ATS that did a test here.

[edit on 12-7-2010 by SeekerLou]

Pilots fly planes. Scientists perform tests.

So find an scientist who does this kind of test......oh, wait. You don't believe everything science.
Maintaining theory by avoidance is not credible.

...Do YOU believe that your ancestors came from monkies? I'd like an answer to this please.

Come on now... SURELY, YOU choose what you believe!

Did you READ that History Experiments conducted on US Citizens" thread?

--------------
Again, if they've done it BEFORE..How in the WORLD can one say that it is NOT possible for it to happen again?

OK,..Let's try this. Let's say you, or someone , were horribly treated or abused by someone once. Would YOU EVER trust them 100% to not do it again?
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[edit on 13-7-2010 by SeekerLou]

[edit on 13-7-2010 by SeekerLou]

Or...they have been testing Edward Teller's "climate modulation" scheme:

www.osti.gov...


To wit:

"Abstract

It has been suggested that large-scale climate changes, mostly due to atmospheric injection of greenhouse gases connected with fossil-fired energy production, should be forestalled by internationally-agreed reductions in, e.g., electricity generation. The potential economic impacts of such limitations are obviously large: greater than or equal to $10[sup 11]/year. We propose that for far smaller - less than 1% - the mean thermal effects of greenhouse gases may be obviated in any of several distinct ways, some of them novel. These suggestions are all based on scatterers that prevent a small fraction of solar radiation from reaching all or part of the Earth. We propose research directed to quite near-term realization of one or more of these inexpensive approaches to cancel the effects of the greenhouse gas injection. While the magnitude of the climatic impact of greenhouse gases is currently uncertain, the prospect of severe failure of the climate, for instance at the onset of the next Ice Age, is undeniable. The proposals in this paper may lead to quite practical methods to reduce or eliminate all climate failures."

Originally posted by p51mustang
they are laid out in a grid pattern from east to west , as to follow the sun.
2x per week in phx. az. i went to nano 911- tanker enemy- etc.
angels dont play this haarp- darpa projects.
odd thing- john mccain steers a deal for the mrtt 336 tanker deal
for 57bill in new jet tankers. ?
you tell me .

So would you be pleased if jet aircraft were not permitted to fly in East/West directions, since apparently that means chemtrails? That would certainly put a damper on all the airliners that fly between SoCal airports by overflying the PHX area. There is probably a lot more aircraft overflying AZ by flying in East/West directions, than North/South, and thats not hard to figure out why.

So again, we get back to Aerial Refueling being behind chemtrails. What is it about aerial refueling of military aircraft that is so sinister to chemtrail believers? do you not think that the KC-135 aircraft from the 1950s and early 60s may need to be replaced?

But doesnt this claim that aerial refuelers, especially KC-135 aircraft are behind chemtrails, and that aerial refueling is suspect, considering that chemmies claim that chemtrails started in late 90s, but aerial refueling and KC-135s came about from the 1950s.

Originally posted by cyberjedi
Hi ATS,

Just took these 2 pics today. Was wondering what all the white stuff is

They are clouds made from tiny crystals of deadly dihydrogen monoxide.

They occur naturally as cirrus and other high level clouds and may also form in the wake of aircraft - most commonly from commerical air traffic, hence the criss cross patterns.

The military have been studying them for decades with the aim of finding a way to prevent them from forming. Over the past 30 odd years climate scientistst have been studying them to determine their possible impact on weather and climate.

reply to post by SeekerLou


Do I believe mankind evolved from a lower species? No. I believe we are created in the image of our Maker.
Do I consider religion and "chemtrails" to be anywhere near the same basic concept? NO.
Chemtrails are able to be prove or disproven with tests. Tests are done, showing their content is exhaust.
And about the testing done in the past? I live in a town that was sprayed. Surprise! I researched it all when it was disclosed. It was nothing to be scared of.
Does that mean they are doing it now. No. Would I trust them even though they did in the past? Yes.
Why? Because tests have been done and shown nothing is being sprayed. Show something is in fact being dispensed on us. Until then, you are living a paranoid fearful existence that "they" are out to get you. And have not provided any evidence that "they" are doing anything.
Religion is a matter of faith in things that cannot be seen, only felt.,
"Chemtrails" are a matter of not knowing the science involved.

Originally posted by stars15k
reply to post by SeekerLou

 

Do I believe mankind evolved from a lower species? No. I believe we are created in the image of our Maker. [/unquote]
Glad to hear

. Eeek eeek..

- Glad that you CHOOSE which scientists to believe too: This is what I do. So we both pick and choose who and what to believe.

Do I consider religion and "chemtrails" to be anywhere near the same basic concept? NO.[/unquote]
Neither do I.

Chemtrails are able to be prove or disproven with tests. Tests are done, showing their content is exhaust. [/unquote]
According to you and others, but then again others have a difference of opinion.

And about the testing done in the past? I live in a town that was sprayed. Surprise! [/unquote]
Oh my... hate to hear this: You were used as a guinea pig. I would not like being used as a guinea pig in an experiment.

I researched it all when it was disclosed. It was nothing to be scared of.

Ummm....ok.. Lucky you, that it wasn't worse.

Does that mean they are doing it now. No. Would I trust them even though they did in the past? Yes. [quote/]
Are you are sure there was nothing in that spray?

You seem tooo trusting for your own good imo.

Why? Because tests have been done and shown nothing is being sprayed. Show something is in fact being dispensed on us.

You , of course, are entitled to believe whichever test results you desire. I'm saying , that I don't know for sure WHO to believe.

Until then, you are living a paranoid fearful existence that "they" are out to get you.

lol..I don't live a paranoid fearful existence. Chemtrails are very possible. And if people have been used as guinea pigs beFORE, like YOU I remind you, then it ISS possible they may want to use people on testing again. Again, you are lucky, actually BLESSED to have not had it worse. Take for instance Agent Orange..

And have not provided any evidence that "they" are doing anything.

lol I can't prove chemtrails one way or another., I never stated it as fact or that I could do so. Just stating it's POSSIBLE. What part of possible do you not understand?

Religion is a matter of faith in things that cannot be seen, only felt.,
"Chemtrails" are a matter of not knowing the science involved.

Agreed..on religion.
Contrails can also have additives, if one so desires to add them. ..or
Maybe chemtrails are contrails with chemicals .

[edit on 14-7-2010 by SeekerLou]

[edit on 14-7-2010 by SeekerLou]