There is no NWO!!!

Yes, all possibilities are open to me, but I don't think it is probable that there would be a small elite. Sure, there are probably many organizations. Just like something was mentioned, in another topic, about why there were so many organizations, the UN, NATO, Bilderberg, Trilateral - why so many?

Since I first started to doubt the Illuminati's existance, I've tried to see on the issue from their view. Where would I start? What would be the ultimate goal? What means should I use? There has been so many, how can I say, fluctuations, that if the Illuminati really exist, they'd better come up with a new plan very soon.

Have you ever wondered about Adolph Hitler? The Soviet Union? The Korean and Vietnam wars? The Cuban missile crisis? The fall of the Soviet Union? None of them seems to have any traces at all to Illuminati. None of these historical things seems to have done any good for this group.

People keep saying "but that's a part of their big plan". What plan? Maybe they do exist, but their goals are not to conquer anything. Maybe they just want power and money, and go along with "the rest"? Who could tell? Maybe they are good?

Originally posted by RX84

...... they are all ruled by the same little group of circle yerking meglomaniacs.

RX84:

Then what is the point of having many corporations?

smoke and mirrors. sun reflecting off the shields of the advancing army, blinding us.

RX84:

Why should Bill Gates give away billions of dollars to a group, when he himself can't be there and rule the world among them?

see above. there is no more money when you have all of it.

there are no countries.

RX84:

Yes, indeed. Not completely, but I believe we soon will live under open corporate states.

nice. except for us. not nice for us. government for the people by the people is the only just system.

there are no organisations. there is just 'the corporation'(which, incidentally is as close to a real world satan as it gets).

RX84:

What is this 'corporation'?

the 'corporation' is the almalgam of all the key players at the top of the pyramid.

Who is making all these conspiracy theories?

we're not making them. we're discovering them. BIG difference.

RX84:

Who came up with the idea of MJ-12? The Illuminati? FEMA being a shadow government? The Masonic "signs wich you can find everywhere"? We did.

see above. we didn't 'come up' with them. we UNCOVERED them, mostly through conscientious objectors leaking info, later PROVEN, with documents, names, faces and places..

RX84:

They're making money out of your fear.

LOADS and LOADS of money, selling weapons/construction, crime/justice, truth/bullroar, etc. michael moore et al. are skimming off the very top. the bulk of money goes to the military/industrial/pharmaceutical/media complex.

RX84:

Because I believe when people find out about this stuff, they actually try to do something about it. And when their search is over, the world will hear about it. I guarantee you. It won't matter where you are, or what you are doing, because the truth, if it is what I think it may be, is enormous - gigantic. And that's how it is going to be like - a global revolution.

amen, brother. and then the world may split, (literally, maybe), in two. or, man can act as a single organism for the betterment of all. our choice.

RX84:

The problem is already there when you stand in a book store. $20 for a book who speak the truth. Yeah, wow, you may think. Now we can know what the world is all about, won't we? Wrong. The author obviously thinks that money is more important than the truth. How? Because you can't find out about anything if you don't buy the book. No money? Too bad! No truth for you!

so, conspiracy theorists who spend 100% of their time fighting for truth are supposed to eat good karma? we do still live in a society of trading services using the proxy,'money', ya know?

RX84:

What is the truth? Who OWNS it? You do. I do. Everyone in the world OWNS the truth. Our children do too. Our ancestors would too. Because that's public information.

i was with you up until the 'public information' part. information is not truth, first of all. nor is the truth public. i do own the truth, though. so do we all. THAT, i agree with. owning and possessing are two different things, yeah?

and 'freemason' says there is no NWO?

and so does the guy/gal(sorry, dont know your tackle box situation) at FEMA HQ, yeah?.

Billybob, you just rambled off a load of bullcrap and then quoted me saying "There is no NWO" (which is correct) as if you disproved me.

Your basic problem, is you see something happend and say that "the NWO did it".

Why don't you try using science. That is, observe patterns you could attribute to the "NWO" and then make predictions.

If you can predict what is going to happen in the world tomorrow, let alone 5 years from now, you have just become better than every advisor that has ever served the governments of the world.

Foolish kid.

Originally posted by FreeMason
Billybob, you just rambled off a load of bullcrap and then quoted me saying "There is no NWO" (which is correct) as if you disproved me.
Foolish kid.

i have yet to ramble off any bullcrap, my brother. i am not a kid. i'm at least half dead. i never said i disproved you. i disagree with you. i also am pointing out that vampires often say, i PROMISE i won't suck your blood.

I'm also pointing out that you and everyone like you (conspiratists) fail to realize the first rule of science.

PREDICTION.

If you can't make a prediction it doesn't exist, for instance, I say that there is no gravity therefore I should not fall off the roof of a building.

My prediction's wrong, back to the drawing board.

If you can say "ok these things are happening and are highly probable that they are "controled" events and since they are world events it must be a world organization of elites, so their next move will be to do this."

You can't just say "the NWO did that" when obviously many things you are pointing to are being done by many different groups, however intertwined through politics or economics, have their own self-interests.

Originally posted by FreeMason
I'm also pointing out that you and everyone like you (conspiratists) fail to realize the first rule of science.

PREDICTION.

the first rule of science is truth. empirical data. it's not bloody astrology, dude.
even science knows that getting the same result a bazillion times doesn't guarantee that the bazillion and one-th trial won't give a different result.

and besides that, this isn't science. it is the mystical field of the mass mind and the manipulation of it. your definition of the NWO isn't necessarily the same as mine. your definition of truth, god, consipiratists, blue, up and down are not necessarily the same as mine. to just blatantly say 'there is no conspiracy' without 'debunking' ALL the historical ties of the ALL the players at the top of the control structure, is akin to saying there is no spoon. you have NO idea what is in my head. you have no idea whether i'm just bating you , or whether i believe it. prove that i'm human, for that matter.
you'll state that you know the big picture with utter conviction. the fact is, NONE of us know the big picture. the more you see, the bigger the picture gets. put that in your apron and hoodwink it.

Ugh, no Science is about Prediction, if you can predict something then whatever else doesn't matter. Whether or not the "truth" has been discovered.

For instance, do planes fly because of lift or down-ward thrust?

It doesn't really matter because the physics used still gives us the desired result.

The fact is YOU can't predict tomorrow let alone 5 years from now, not even on a local scale.

Thus our world is not made-up of an "NWO" preparing for its culmination, but of many individual players each doing their own relative thing which beomes very "unpredictable".

well, I gues it really depends on how you look at it.

Religious people think the NWO has to do with the AntiChrist and his one world government.

An average conspiracy theroist would probably pass it off as a meer "tall tale".

I dunno what I believe really, If it does exist, it'll probably come soon, if it doesn't, we'll just keep getting more and more paraniod, getting up every day worrying if its the day the world goes to hell. I say, f*** the NWO, we really need to stop worrying and wasting our time on it, its just increasing paranoia and fear.

Actually its not a NEW WORLD ORDER that is being pushed but a OLD WORLD ORDER. These leaders are the same ones that lead the crusades, the ones that reportedly killed 6 million jews are the very ones that rule in Israel today. Its a Sumerian World Order of paganism,greed,lust,power, and indulgence where the #1 LAW is do as thou will.

Nothing New about this Order, its very old.

Actually, I think we can make predictions, predictions on a national scale most likely... But we have to see if they can come true.

So, the first step: If the NWO is dictating events, establish their common goal(s).

Step two: Break down their goals into the different aspects of society, to realize how they would function together to support the common goal(s).

3: Establish how close they are to their goals in present society.

4: Determine how history has afforded these goals.

5: Analysis, The NWO will employ similar methods in the future that allowed them to arrive where they are now. Allow history to dictate what their next moves will be within the context of the present.

That is how we can arrive at predictions. This would actually make for a good research project.

I agree it will be an OWO as the NWO, so that is how we can use the history to determine what they will do. They will most surely employ similar methods within the context of our societal structure

[edit on 3-7-2004 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by FreeMason
Ugh, no Science is about Prediction, if you can predict something then whatever else doesn't matter. Whether or not the "truth" has been discovered.

The fact is YOU can't predict tomorrow let alone 5 years from now, not even on a local scale.

anyway, let's stop discussing science. this isn't science.
and, i can and did predict what is happening right now. the rights of individuals are bieng taken away in favor of the rights of the whole. the problem is, who decides the rights of the whole? a few individuals. bankers and industrialists.
let's have a referendum to decide if people want to give the federal reserve back to the people it rightfully belongs to. let's have one to decide whether people want to continue paying compound interest on their mortgages(death guage, the lower it is, the closer to death you are). let's have one to decide if people WANT a frickin' camera and sensor array following their every move and thought.
george orwell predicted what it happening, so it's not really my prediction. i just recognise the patterns.

predictions: there will always be a public enemy number one. they will all have a history with the cia. this is orwell's invisible shifting enemy. this has been noriega/the ayatoyla/saddam/osama/saddam in the past, to name a few. how do you war on 'drugs'? shoot them? how do you war on 'terror'? shoot it? the war on terror has actually in reality been a media blitz iof SPREADING fear, complete with color-coded alerts.

the 'terror' will increase to the level required to get people to willingly give up even more rights and freedoms than have already been taken. 'they' will disarm the public, citing terror as the reason. 'they' will chip everyone and institute other biometric i.d. systems.

the gap between rich and poor will continue to widen.

there will be less food and more disease. these are more reasons to buckle down on the masses and dehumanise them. it is easier to mistreat humans when they are 'scum'.

the media will continue to remain silent on issues not in line with the plan. (ie. clinton got lambasted for smoking a joint in college, but drinkin' and drivin', skull and bonesin', awolin', coke snortin' bush had NONE of his shady past reported.)

EVERYTHING will be privatised. if your not buying it from 'them', then you ain't buyin' it. (they tried this with water in peru, already. it was ILLEGAL to COLLECT RAINWATER!! jesus. and which company owned the water supply? enron, basically. so you have american industrialists attempting to turn an entire country into slaves. there is no difference between 0% competition and slavery)

they will make religion illegal, except of course the one religion. a one world theocratic government will be instituted.

YOU will continue to attempt your hoodwinking of US.

smoke and mirrors. sun reflecting off the shields of the advancing army, blinding us.

Okay, let's say that's true. Then what was the reason for the great wars? The fall of the Soviet Union? People say that the government are making a virus for population control, then what was the point of Hitler's defeat in WW2? How much is this NWO controlling? Every step of every little organization, or do they influence, boxes stacked into one another? Exactly how do they work?

see above. there is no more money when you have all of it.

What? I was asking you if a person would give away all of his might and money for something he will never be a part of.

nice. except for us. not nice for us. government for the people by the people is the only just system.

How can we ever trust any government if the Illuminati (or whoever) exist?

the 'corporation' is the almalgam of all the key players at the top of the pyramid.

Yes, but what corporation? How do you know they are a corporation?

we're not making them. we're discovering them. BIG difference.

Really. How much have we discovered? When and who discovered what? What sources did he or she use? How are these discoveries presented?

we didn't 'come up' with them. we UNCOVERED them, mostly through conscientious objectors leaking info, later PROVEN, with documents, names, faces and places..

Where are this proof then? Exactly who uncovered them?

amen, brother. and then the world may split, (literally, maybe), in two. or, man can act as a single organism for the betterment of all. our choice.

Yes, indeed.

so, conspiracy theorists who spend 100% of their time fighting for truth are supposed to eat good karma? we do still live in a society of trading services using the proxy,'money', ya know?

Imagine if you found "proof" in form of a tape, a document or something you couldn't just show to anyone. Let's say that this was the truth, God told you, or something like that. Only you know this, and those involved in the conspiracy.

Okay, you read/listen to what you have found. And then you hear/read something in form of "in 2007, 5,900,000,000 people will die because of bladder bladder". Now, you are probably terrified. But you come up with an idea. "Let's publish this in a book!"

With this, you proove that you care about money more than 5,900,000,000 human beings. Why? Because if they don't have money to buy your book, they won't find out about the truth. And if they can't find out about the truth, they will die. In essence, you are carrying the fate of 5,900,000,000 people.

Another point, posting it in a book won't help. You have to get it out so that everyone will hear about it. CNN, Fox, any possible way. Even the radio.

You think people in China or North Korea are able to read your book?

Of course, if the scenario is inevitable, like an alien invasion or a comet strike, it may be difficult to actually do something about it. But if you could, would you sit in your armchair, waiting for the book to be sold, or would you actually DO something to get the message out?

i was with you up until the 'public information' part. information is not truth, first of all. nor is the truth public. i do own the truth, though. so do we all. THAT, i agree with. owning and possessing are two different things, yeah?

Information should be free. Why? Because if we don't get enough information, we won't be able to do anything, people with good ideas won't be heard, and we will forever be slaves to those with power. You own the right to know where your money goes. You have the right to know what your government is doing now and in the future. A country who doesn't provide this is ultimately a dictatorship.

and so does the guy/gal(sorry, dont know your tackle box situation) at FEMA HQ, yeah?.

Yes, FEMA HQ, Washington DC, third floor, hallway D, room number 236. You can't imagine how good coffee they serve me here...

Originally posted by project_pisces

Nothing New about this Order, its very old.

yes. i agree. only the names has been changed. the name itself is a trigger.

"Corporations have neither bodies to kick nor souls to damn."
- Andrew Jackson

"When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I
am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and purity of its
heart."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute talk with the
average voter."
- Winston Churchill

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or
that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American
public."
- Theodore Roosevelt

Here are some quotes for you to consider.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
—Arthur Schopenhauer (German philosopher, 1788-1860)

37 B.C. Eclogue IV by Virgil

"Magnus ab integro seclorum nascitur ordo."

Various translations:

The great series of ages begins anew.
The ages' mighty march begins anew.
A mighty order of ages is born anew.
The majestic roll of circling centuries begins anew.
______________________________________________
"and a golden race arise in all the world;
now your Apollo reigns."

1919, The New World Order, by Samuel Z. Batten
American Baptist Society
www.infowars.com...

He declares the “old order passes from view” and the “new world rises upon our vision” (George Bush Senior would make a likewise statement more than 70 years later). Batten advocates social control and the socialization of society at large. He declares a “world patriotism” must be created and it must be a religious faith. International peace, according to Batten, must also be a religious faith. “The only alternative is World Federation….with a world parliament, and international court, and an international police force,”

1920 Royal Institute of International Affairs is founded in England, similar institutes for international affairs would sprout up around the world including the u.s., canada, australia, ireland, etc.

The accord takes place at a meeting arranged by Col. House and attended by various Fabians, including the noted economist, John Maynard Keynes.

March 19 1920 : Congress for the second time votes against U.S. membership in the League of Nations.

June 19th, l920 Christian Science Monitor editorial
pqasb.pqarchiver.com...:311471302&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&date=Jun+19%2C+1920&author=&pub=Chri stian+Science+Monitor++(1908-Current+file)&edition=&startpage=16&desc=The+Jewish+Peril%22

"What is important is to dwell upon the increasing evidence of the existence of a secret conspiracy, throughout the world, for the destruction of organized government and the letting loose of evil."

1921 The institute of international affairs in the U.S. becomes the Council on Foreign Relations
en.wikipedia.org...

1928 Sequel to Mein Kampf New World Order by Adolf Hitler

"National Socialism will use its own revolution for the establishing of a New World Order."

1932 New World Order by F.S. Marvin
books.google.com...

Marvin describes the League of Nations as the first attempt at a New World Order and says "nationality must rank below the claims of mankind as a whole. "

I also noticed that in 1934 "In The Externalization of the Hierarchy" by Alice Bailey, an occultist, founder of the New Age religion, (uses the phrase "points of light" in connection with a "New Group of World Servers,")
The work is published by the Lucis Trust, formerly Lucifer Publishing Company.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

www.lucistrust.org...

www.lucistrust.org...

The book claims that 1934 was the beginning of "the organizing of the men and women to do the work of a new order with language like progress defined by service... the work of the Brotherhood ... the Forces of Light" and most notably "out of the spoliation of all existing culture and civilization, the new world order must be built."

Also in 1934 in "Experiment in Autobiography" H.G. Welles wrote that

"The organization of this that I call the Open Conspiracy... which will ultimately supply teaching, coercive and directive public services to the whole world, is the immediate task before all rational people... a planned world-state is appearing at a thousand points."


In 1991 George HW Bush will give a state of the union address reminiscient of this.

For two centuries we've done the hard work of freedom. And tonight we lead the world in facing down a threat to decency and humanity. What is at stake is more than one small country, it is a big idea - a new world order, where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind: peace and security, freedom, and the rule of law. Such is a world worthy of our struggle, and worthy of our children's future."

"We will succeed in the Gulf. And when we do, the world community will have sent an enduring warning to any dictator or despot, present or future, who contemplates outlaw aggression. The world can therefore seize this opportunity to fufill the long-held promise of a new world order - where brutality will go unrewarded, and aggression will meet collective resistance."

"The illumination of a thousand points of light...."

"The winds of change are with us now"

May 19, 1939 "Plans for an Unarmed World Federation, Democratic, Non-Military and AII-Inclusive" by the American Campaign for World Government
Peace News (London publication)
www.scribd.com...
www.peacenews.info...

1939 World Order (Civitas Dei) by Lionel Curtis
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220694572&sr=1-1

The 985-page work has been called the foundation of all thought on the design of a new order. The work examines human society and concludes that a working system must mean the organization of all human society into one commonwealth.

1939 The Atlantic Union Committe formed by Clarence K. Streit

"The goal of the Atlantic Union Committee was to persuade the United States Congress to pass a resolution calling amongst the Atlantic Democracies of North America and Europe."

Atlantic Union Committee a register of its records in the library of congress.
www.loc.gov...

Note Box 111 Acquaintances in Congress
Box 119 Psycological Strategy Board
Box 121 United World Federalists
Box 122 World government materials
Box 122 World Population Control Council

1940 The New World Order by H.G. Wells

This book proposes a "collectivist one-world state" or "new world order" comprised of "socialist democracies." He advocates "universal conscription for service" and declares that "nationalist individualism is the world's disease." He continues: "The manifest necessity for some collective world control to eliminate warfare and the less generally admitted necessity for a collective control of the economic and biological life of mankind, are aspects of one and the same process." He proposes that this be accomplished through "universal law" and propaganda (or education).

Here are some quotes from the book:

"The New Deal is plainly an attempt to achieve a working socialism and avert a social collapse in America; it is extraordinarily parallel to the successive 'policies' and 'Plans' of the Russian experiment. Americans shirk the word 'socialism', but what else can one call it?"

"This new and complete Revolution we contemplate can be defined in a very few words. It is (a) outright world-socialism, scientifically planned and directed, plus (b) a sustained insistence upon law, law based on a fuller, more jealously conceived restatement of the personal Rights of Man, plus (c) the completest freedom of speech, criticism, and publication, and a sedulous expansion of the educational organization to the ever growing demands of the new order....
Putting it at its compactest, it is the triangle of Socialism, Law, and Knowledge which frames the Revolution that may yet save the world."

"Armament should be an illegality everywhere, and some sort of international force should patrol a treaty-bound world. Partial armament is one of those absurdities dear to moderate-minded 'reasonable' men. Armament itself is making war. Making a gun, pointing a gun, and firing it are all acts of the same order. It should be illegal to construct anywhere upon earth any mechanism for the specific purpose of killing men. When you see a gun it is reasonable to ask: 'Whom is that intended to kill?'"

"Directly we grasp this not very obscure truth that there can be, and are, different sorts of money dependent on the economic usages or system in operation, which are not really interchangeable, then it becomes plain that a collectivist world order, whose fundamental law is such a Declaration of Rights as we have sketched, will have to carry on its main, its primary operations at least with a new world money, a specially contrived money, differing in its nature from any sort of money conventions that have hitherto served human needs. It will be issued against the total purchaseable output of the community in return for the workers' services to the community."

"Countless people will hate the new world order and will die protesting against it"

1940 The New World Order, published by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
www.carnegieendowment.org...

This work contains a select list of references on regional and world federation, together with some special plans for world order after the war.

August 19, 1940 Congressional Record, remarks of Hon. J. Thorkelson of Montana in the house of representatives

Steps Toward British Union, a World State, and
International Strife

"In order that the American people may have a clearer understanding of those who over a period of years have been undermining this Republic, in order to return it to the British Empire, I have inserted in the RECORD a number of articles to prove this point. These articles are entitled "Steps Toward British Union, a World State, and International Strife." This is part I, and in this I include a hope expressed by Mr. Andrew Carnegie, in his book entitled "Triumphant Democracy." In this he expresses himself in this manner:

"Let men say what they will, I say that as surely as the sun in the heavens once shone upon Britain and America united, so surely is it one morning to rise, to shine upon, to greet again the reunited states—the British-American Union."

His statement is clear, and the organizations which Mr. Carnegie endowed have spent millions in order to bring this about. This thing has been made possible by scholarships, exchange professors, subsidies of churches, subsidies of educational institutions; all of them working for the purpose of eliminating Americanism as was taught once in our schools and to gradually exchange this for an English version of our history.

These organizations were organized to bring about a British union, a union in which the United States would again become a part of the British Empire. However, this has been upset to some extent by the attempt of the internationalists to establish their own government as an International or world union. And there is, therefore, a conflict between the two, for England wants a British union, with America as a colony, and the international money changers want a Jewish controlled union, in order to establish their own world government.

It is, therefore, best for us to stay out of both of these, in order to save what is left of this Republic as it was given to us in 1787, by a people who knew more about international intrigue and the real problems that confronted the world, than we know today. These early founders not only understood the problems, but in drafting the Constitution they provided an instrument for us to follow, so that we could remain secure from foreign double-dealing and intrigue

Full document here
www.scribd.com...

December 12, 1940 The Congressional Record

"in an article entitled "A New World Order," John G. Alexander calls for "a world federation."


You'll have to go to a federal depository to read it.
www.access.gpo.gov.../.%2B1888-.%2BBiennial,%2B19%2B-.%2BUnited%2BStates.%2BY% 2B4.P%2B93/1:1/(NOS.).%2B%5B%5B0992%5D%5D.%2B%7B%7Bpurl.access.gpo.gov...

June 16, 1940 Winston Churchill's proposes an Anglo-French union
"United States of Europe"

"The two Governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations but one Franco-British Union… Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain, every British subject will become a citizen of France..."

Also see, "Churchill and the Unification of Europe"
Their Finest Hour
www.winstonchurchill.org...

1941 The City of Man: A Declaration on World Democracy
www.questia.com...

Co-authored by social philosopher Lewis Mumford, theologian Reinhold Niebuhr and others, the work declares: "Universal peace can be founded only on the unity of man under one law and one government.... All states, deflated and disciplined, must align themselves under the law of the world-state... the new order... when the heresy of nationalism is conquered and the absurd architecture of the present world is finally dismantled.... And there must be a common creed... or ethico-religious purpose".

July 1941 "The New World Order": An article, by M. J. Bonn
The Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science
ann.sagepub.com...

"national planning means deliberate international anarchy.... I doubt if the world order of tomorrow will be capitalist or socialist. It probably will be both and neither.... The genius of History does not march through the ages with the solemn goose-step.... But all the time he keeps moving, and with every move a step toward a new world order is taken."

You see the new world order split off into two factions, those who wanted a socialist world state and those who wanted a federal world state but going forward in the time line you'll see that they decided to work together and we're going to have both as hegelian dialect predicted. Thesis: capitalism, Antithesis: socialism, and then a synthesis, what we have today, which is communitarianism.