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There is no NWO!!!

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posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 01:11 AM
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keep your eye on the world. all appendages of the same entity...




posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 10:16 AM
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But anyway, I doubt martial law would happen, and if it did, then I think we all know what will happen. Viva la people.


Yes, exactly. Iraq was "a country at the far end of the world", a country and a people no one knew about, only that they were terrorists and that they were bad. But to shoot at your own people?



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 01:08 PM
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I believe in the case of the rising EU we will see a form of the NWO take place. Already the member states of the EU such as the UK have given up sovereignty to the in so far as all European law must be made into British law without ammendments, European law will always prevail over UK law such as in the Factor Tame case and the fact that treaties in the EU are binding upon the constitution. I think that countries such as the UK will use the EU as an excuse to implement laws such as Identity cards and such, although there is an argument that further integration with Europe will spawn a culture of rights which therefore means that the NWO arent out to 'take over the world'. But if they exist which i believe they do they are certainly in a commanding position over potential super-states such as the EU.

...and who said AS Politics wouldnt come in handy?



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by RX84
Well, the NWO is surely a debated topic. I think there are a NWO. But I don't think there are one. Confused, well...

I usually rule out the concept that people are controlled by only one group.

No NWO then? Globalisation, killing of animal species. Fear and all kinds of trash they show us on TV. Same old movies, music and harch laws. Racism and white power. Disinformation. Pollution. "Black Budgets/Black Money". That is what I call the NWO.


I would be inclined to agree with this assessment. It is possible to believe in 'New World Order' as a new political and economic system which is rapidly achieving global domination without believing in the NWO as a small and secretive cabal which controls the world.
I believe that this political system, which incorporates Corporate bodies, political elites, and NGOs such as those listed by BillyBob, is best described by Hardt and Negri in their 2000 book, Empire. This system draws in local political elites by tying their interests with those of the more significant economic players.
I have posted on this previously What would the New World Order Rule
This does not require that we should have peace. Indeed, it should be clear that this goes against the interests of those high up in such a power structure. Will investors in BAE want a peaceful world, which would then reduce the markets for their military hardware.
Or, to look at a specific war, let us take the example of the Democratic REpublic of the Congo. This is one of the few (if not only) sources for a mineral which is necessary for the production of mobile phones. The prolonged civil war in thecountry has ensured that different fractions have control of sections of the land which yields this mineral (I'm sorry, its name escapes me). This creates a variety of suppliers, so that the western corporations which produce phones have a competitive market, with different military factions offering them the stuff at a variety of prices, in order to fund their war efforts. Should this state of affairs end (god forbid), there would then be a single producer, in the Congolese government, which could then set the price, with distinctly adverse effects for the phone market. It is thus in the interests of the phone producers, and the Western economies which they contribute to, to ensure that this war continues, and they do this by shopping around and providing funds to all of the warring factions. Scuh a situation does not need to be determined by a shadowy cabal, but simply market forces.
I realise that the closing section of this post is perhaps a tad tenuous, but I would ask that you seperate any difficulties you have with my argument from the critical work offered in Empire. It is an excellent study of the ways in which we are dominated, and is as such well worth a read. nor does it require any belief in an NWO. The connection between the two ideas is one which I have drawn,not one intrinsic to the text.



posted on Jun, 19 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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Yes, exactly. Iraq was "a country at the far end of the world", a country and a people no one knew about, only that they were terrorists and that they were bad. But to shoot at your own people?


It's happened before. Dare I mention the CIVIL WAR, KENT STATE, WWII US CONCENTRATION CAMPS FOR JAPANESE....

I think it's highly possible, the soldiers will try to be as non-lethal as possible, but that doesn't mean people won't be killed.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 02:50 PM
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Yes, that is true. People will be killed... people are being killed and have been killed for opposing the NWO we know, or at least, the one I know...

Ironically, there was a TV documentary, where they interviewed both the CIA and the FBI, and how these two organizations bashed at each other for this and that, especially things about terrorism and security measures...

It also states why the CIA is forbidden to spy in Saudi-Arabia. Oil has to do with it, and you probably know the rest...

What I saw in the program, however, that was a taste of the current state of the NWO. That people aren't getting killed for knowing about MJ-12, Roswell or anything like that, but that they know how the US government handels the whole oil business...



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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In order to make the transition to Martial Law, we need to be sufficiently convinced to prevent revolt. Perhaps Terrorism is the means to that end. Through a process, we slowly morph into a Communist Society, rather than a radical departure into it. There is much information that appears to fit logically regarding this. Specifically, the mandate of the NWO: the richest trying to make money and obtain control, as we are used as cattle to feed them. Perhaps the rumors of powerful brainwashing are true, which would seem to be a necessary condition for the soldiers of this organization to react in the NWO's favor (i.e. Presidents of the USA, Military leaders, etc.).

From my readings, they already own everything from major TV networks to large chains of businesses. Through the media, we are influenced everyday, and Americans buy into it and spend their money on stuff we just don't need: manufactured markets. Does anyone care about your family photo's stored on a 200 GB HD projected onto a wall with a $5000 HP projector through a Sony Viao laptop that will be obsolete in 4 years? NO, only you and a few of your family members. They appeal to peoples narcissitic condition.

The NWO and their grand plan is hard to put into a few small sentences. After reading the details of this organization, I have shifted my world view. Everything appears different now. I am not saying that I am certain that the NWO is doing what they are said to be doing, but I take it seriously. Specifically, when I look around at the streets, intuitively, I see hords of ignorant slaves: skipping down the street with new computers; pushing their baby carriages on their way to the bank to pay their loans, locked into student loans, mortgages, etc.; buying that volvo; furnishing the house with $10,000 worth of stuff from IKEA, and the like. They keep pulling the smoke screen over us: we are kept busy buying stuff and celebrating constructed holidays to keep our minds off of the truth of our existence. LOL, ever see a Monk partying with a bunch of Truck Drivers at a Bar downtown?

Just as we are kept busy with all this crap, so too were the people of Russia and Poland kept busy with things like not having any toilet paper to keep their interests out of Politics. While we are looking at the weeks flyers and having Christmas dinner, we are not thinking about sweat shops, disease and famine.

Of course, Capatalism works this way, but perhaps it is not the best system. We make people rich and they have power over us.

Let us take a look at terrorism. I seriously quesiton who was behind 9/11, as most of you probably do. Has there been another attack on US soil since? Bush all but frightens me. "They are trying to break the American Spirit..." He keeps saying that like it is ingrained in his mind. One theory is that terrorism is used to take your rights away. The NWO is trying to saturate the world and thus they are in the midst of breaking down America. If you watch CNN they are talking about how they are letting illegal Aliens into the country and the guards can't do anything about it. On top of that, your jobs are being outsourced and Walmart is King Konging your communities.

What about the drama with the American who was recently beheaded? Is all this not a little odd? We see these images on TV and we say, "Arrgh, those damn Muslims, they are evil!" Is it really the Muslims that are doing it?

Another NWO mandate is population reduction. It is rumored that they want to kill us off to reduce the population. How have they gone about doing that? AIDS, MS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrom, etc. The rumor is that the US military bioengineered a form of Brucella and released it into the population in the late 60's and onwards. These strains of Brucella have been shown to cause these incurable illnesses. More interestingly, Gulf War Illness, of which apparently 100,000 Americans have fallen ill to, is caused by a strain of Brucella. Just type "Brucella" or "Mycoplasma" into Google and their is lots of info on it.

While there might not be direct evidence of their existence, their appears to be instances of their mandate in action.

The best way to describe what the NWO is doing in one full swoop is what Plato referred to as the "Noble Falsehood" in his dialouge titled the "Republic". The Noble Falsehood is something that Plato thought the leaders of a state were allowed to do: lying to your people because in the leaders eyes, it is for the best for them. I guess you can call it white lies. Only with the NWO, I suspect that their intentions are a little more evil than Plato's.
Best wishes.

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Plasmamembrane]

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Plasmamembrane]

[edit on 20-6-2004 by Plasmamembrane]



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 04:33 PM
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Free Mason, Pull your head out of your ass sometime and take a swift look around you. The NWO isnt here yet. Its FORMING. Do you really think that overnight they are gonna slam it down? No. The NWO exists because we can watch it be born. The slow, yet deliberate molding of the public's minds, the slow formation towards globalization and centralization is obvious. Even many people in the world are convinced a one world govornment would be great. traditionally independant states in Europe surrender thier currencies, and soon, thier soverignty to a higher Union. The NWO isnt fully formed yet, but its happening.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 07:30 PM
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Kigga I'm not still "here" I've returned from my exile and am back with a vengeance


Skadi, I'll use you as the base for my reply. I have looked around, much more than you, I have studied now for years the amazing, no the FACINATING, inter-relationships.

People such as your self look at only a small part of these relationships and say, "They are in charge". And you call that the "forming NWO" or some crap.

What you don't realize is that group will never gain power over the others because of an integrated relationship.

Take for example, the workers. The only way they can replace businesses is to "nationalize" everything, well that has proven a failure in countries like Soviet Union, China, N. Korea, Cuba and so forth.

Take the corporations, the only way they can abuse their workers is if they don't rely upon their workers for revenue. In the 1st world every business relys upon their employees for revenue, because the employees are the consumers.

The 3rd world is slowly being brought up to the level of the 1st world so one day sweat-shops will die out because businesses will be making so much money off those "sweat-shop employees" from buying goods and services, that to pay them their former wages would entail a loss in revenue either directly or indirectly.

This growing dependence and common interest is what most people mistake as an NWO.

They say "oh it's the Bilderbergers doing it".

Yes...it's them.

They say "oh it's the World Bank doing it".

Yes...it is them too.

It is the people doing it, it is the nations doing it, it is the companies doing it, the bankers the owners the investors. It is everyone that is not a nationalist terrorist.

Why?

Because WWI sickened the world of nationalism. WWII sealed the coffin.

People want to just live now, they are sick of nations constructing self-dependent economies then marching to war for power. They would rather see their nation produce only a piece of the pie, and be unable to go to world war because of it, than to be totally independent and constantly be warring amongst themselves.

Wars for total independence may have been a romantic concept 500 years ago, but today with chemical-biological-nuclear weapons it is simply unimaginable.

There is no "NWO".

Only common-sense.

The only way we'll stop fighting is if we have investments all around the world and the world invests in us...that level of co-dependence would mean war would destroy both parties. Thus the only problems are those who attempt to become entirely self-dependent.

It does not mean that laws will be made by a higher order.

It does not mean wars will disappear entirely.

It means the chances of the "Great Powers" from ever going to war with eachother again is much less.

The "Great Powers" had been to war every decade for the past 4,000 years of recorded military history, from Egypt against the Hittites to the 2nd Reich against the 3rd French Republic.

These past 60 years have seen no direct confrontation between any of the world's "Great Powers".

We set a record at 10 years.

I think you should realize that.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 08:15 PM
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Thanks for your comments. I find them, however, rather idealistic and wraught with misconceptions.



posted on Jun, 20 2004 @ 09:20 PM
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In order to make the transition to Martial Law, we need to be sufficiently convinced to prevent revolt.


There will always be those who oppose one or another faction. And this faction will grow strong, especially when there's troops on the streets.


Through a process, we slowly morph into a Communist Society, rather than a radical departure into it.


Why communist society?


From my readings, they already own everything from major TV networks to large chains of businesses.


Who are they? How long have they existed? Where are their headquaters? Pictures? Documents? Anything?


Through the media, we are influenced everyday, and Americans buy into it and spend their money on stuff we just don't need: manufactured markets.


Oh? How can they establish a WORLD order only in America? So when America becomes a fascist dictatorship, does this mean the whole world will become one? What about Europe? Russia? Asia? Australia? Why don't we hear any NWO theories from those places?


Specifically, when I look around at the streets, intuitively, I see hords of ignorant slaves: skipping down the street with new computers; pushing their baby carriages on their way to the bank to pay their loans, locked into student loans, mortgages, etc.; buying that volvo; furnishing the house with $10,000 worth of stuff from IKEA, and the like.


Ignorant to what? A few unprooven theories? The NWO is coming! Who's going to listen? If we can't figure the whole NWO theory out, let alone provide a single proof of their existance, why should they bother? Who knows, maybe WE are ignorant slaves to a major alien conspiracy? Of course we would dismiss it, saying it is plain BS. There is no proof, there is no reason to believe it is true. Right?


Just as we are kept busy with all this crap, so too were the people of Russia and Poland kept busy with things like not having any toilet paper to keep their interests out of Politics.


Oh, so they were? The NWO left Russia and Poland and moved to America? Why didn't they keep Russia and Poland? They had it all under one ruler. And no one questioned them. Then all of a sudden, the NWO decided that people in the Soviet Union should have a democracy and release tons of classified Soviet documents. Mmm, sounds real smart.

Keeping busy with having no toiletpaper? Since when did politics became more important than survival? Anyway, that's not the situation there. People didn't speak because they couldn't. Most of the stuff was free, including health care. People didn't starve, but they did live poor. No matter how hard you worked, you'd still get the same payment. So, naturally, people worked as much as was required to keep the KGB away, the police etc. Why should they work harder, if there is no reward for this? That's why maintenance was so blurred.


He keeps saying that like it is ingrained in his mind. One theory is that terrorism is used to take your rights away.


World War 2 era had this kind of thing too. The 1960 with the hunt for communists within Hollywood...


What about the drama with the American who was recently beheaded? Is all this not a little odd? We see these images on TV and we say, "Arrgh, those damn Muslims, they are evil!" Is it really the Muslims that are doing it?


Was it really Germans who killed the Jews? Really, Muslims did kill that guy. Extreme muslims. Just because there "may" be a NWO (Illuminati-kind), it doesn't mean they control every little organization on earth. Look at what caused them to do so, background info. What are their goals? Etc. Muslims did kill him, but who made the muslims do it?


Another NWO mandate is population reduction. It is rumored that they want to kill us off to reduce the population.


Why do they want to kill us? Isn't more slaves better than less?


How have they gone about doing that? AIDS, MS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrom, etc. The rumor is that the US military bioengineered a form of Brucella and released it into the population in the late 60's and onwards.


I doubt it very much that any government on earth could ever been making any form of micro organisms pre-1960, if not pre-1970. If they could do this, imagine what they could do with the recent stem-cell research. And yet, Bush (who is an alleged member or agent of the NWO) specifically says that no such research is to be done.


The Noble Falsehood is something that Plato thought the leaders of a state were allowed to do: lying to your people because in the leaders eyes, it is for the best for them. I guess you can call it white lies. Only with the NWO, I suspect that their intentions are a little more evil than Plato's.


If there is a NWO, it opposes this statement. They're not doing it for the best of the people, but for the best of the really high-ups.

Anyways, if they were protecting something like UFOs or aliens, then I can understand them. The kind of stuff that society just can't take, sure, there are those things. But for an open society to work, cases like JFK and the Saudi-Oil connection should be made public ASAP. No honest society can live with this kind of BS.



posted on Jun, 21 2004 @ 03:53 AM
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There will always be those who oppose one or another faction. And this faction will grow strong, especially when there's troops on the streets.


Through a process, we slowly morph into a Communist Society, rather than a radical departure into it.


Why communist society?

WHAT OTHER TERM IS THERE TO USE FOR A GOVERNING BODY WITH COMPLETE CONTROL OVER A SOCIETY?


From my readings, they already own everything from major TV networks to large chains of businesses.


Who are they? How long have they existed? Where are their headquaters? Pictures? Documents? Anything?

THESE QUESTIONS CAN EASILY BE ANSWERED BY RUNNING A SEARCH ON THIS WEBSITE AND OTHERS. HAVE YOU EVEN READ ANYTHING ABOUT THEM? A COUPLE OF NAMES TO GET YOU STARTED: THE ROCKEFELLERS AND NATHAN ROTHCHILD, THE GOVENOR OF THE BANK OF ENGLAND. THEY APPARENTLY BEGAN FROM THE KNIGHTS OF TEMPLAR BACK IN THE EARLY TO MID 1700'S.


Through the media, we are influenced everyday, and Americans buy into it and spend their money on stuff we just don't need: manufactured markets.


Oh? How can they establish a WORLD order only in America?

NOT SURE IF YOU HAVE DONE ANY TRAVELLING, BUT IN MANY OTHER PARTS OF OUR WORLD, PEOPLE ARE SO OPRESSED DUE TO VARIOUS FACTORS LIKE RELIGION, FAMINE, ETC. THAT DICTATORSHIP DOES NOT BEGIN TO CAPTURE THE ESSENCE OF WHAT THEY LIVE UNDER.

So when America becomes a fascist dictatorship, does this mean the whole world will become one?

I DON'T KNOW, ASK THE MEMBERS OF THE ILLUMINATI.

What about Europe? Russia? Asia? Australia? Why don't we hear any NWO theories from those places?

WE DO, BUT SINCE YOU APPEAR TO NOT HAVE READ ANYTHING ON THIS GROUP, THESE QUESTIONS CAN EASILY BE ANSWERED IF YOU DO JUST THAT. THINK: ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT MEANS INTERNATIONAL.


Specifically, when I look around at the streets, intuitively, I see hords of ignorant slaves: skipping down the street with new computers; pushing their baby carriages on their way to the bank to pay their loans, locked into student loans, mortgages, etc.; buying that volvo; furnishing the house with $10,000 worth of stuff from IKEA, and the like.


Ignorant to what? A few unprooven theories? The NWO is coming! Who's going to listen? If we can't figure the whole NWO theory out, let alone provide a single proof of their existance, why should they bother? Who knows, maybe WE are ignorant slaves to a major alien conspiracy? Of course we would dismiss it, saying it is plain BS. There is no proof, there is no reason to believe it is true. Right?

WRONG. NOT THAT I WILL SHOOT MY MOUTH OFF HERE, BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE ALL AROUND US AND I KNOW SOME IN MY CITY ON A FIRST NAME BASIS: I DON'T LIKE THEM. AS FOR UNPROVEN THEORIES, YOU SEEM TO BE MISSING IT. LOOK AT OURSELVES. MY SUGGESTION IS CAPATILISM MAY NOT BE THE BEST FOR US IN THE FUTURE, AND THE NWO THINKS ALONG THE SAME LINES. UNFORTUNATELY, CAPATALISM DOES AFFORD EACH MEMBER WITH A NICE SET OF RIGHTS, WHICH WOULD SEEM TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, LIKE IN A COMMUNIST SOCIETY, TO HAVE TO BE CURBED SOMEWHAT IF CAPATILISM WERE TO BE REPLACED WITH SOMETHING MORE TENABLE FOR OUR FUTURE.


Just as we are kept busy with all this crap, so too were the people of Russia and Poland kept busy with things like not having any toilet paper to keep their interests out of Politics.


Oh, so they were? The NWO left Russia and Poland and moved to America? Why didn't they keep Russia and Poland? They had it all under one ruler. And no one questioned them. Then all of a sudden, the NWO decided that people in the Soviet Union should have a democracy and release tons of classified Soviet documents. Mmm, sounds real smart.

YOU ASK ME LIKE I KNOW. ASK THEM, THEY HAVE THE BLUEPRINT FOR OUR FUTURE.

Keeping busy with having no toiletpaper? Since when did politics became more important than survival?

I USED TO LIVE THERE. TRY STANDING IN LINE FOR 1 DAY TO GET A LOAF OF BREAD. THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE STORES, ETC. LET ME GUESS, YOU ARE THE TYPICAL BRAINWASHED PERSON THAT WE LAUGH AT: THE ONE THE NWO LOVES.

Anyway, that's not the situation there. People didn't speak because they couldn't. Most of the stuff was free, including health care. People didn't starve, but they did live poor. No matter how hard you worked, you'd still get the same payment. So, naturally, people worked as much as was required to keep the KGB away, the police etc. Why should they work harder, if there is no reward for this? That's why maintenance was so blurred.

YOU ARE AN ARMCHAIR CRITIC, UNLESS YOU TELL ME YOU ACTUALLY LIVED THROUGH IT!


He keeps saying that like it is ingrained in his mind. One theory is that terrorism is used to take your rights away.


World War 2 era had this kind of thing too. The 1960 with the hunt for communists within Hollywood...


What about the drama with the American who was recently beheaded? Is all this not a little odd? We see these images on TV and we say, "Arrgh, those damn Muslims, they are evil!" Is it really the Muslims that are doing it?


Was it really Germans who killed the Jews? Really, Muslims did kill that guy.

PROOF? EVEN IF IT WERE MUSLIMS, HOW DO YOU KNOW THE AMERICANS WERE NOT BEHIND IT?

Extreme muslims. Just because there "may" be a NWO (Illuminati-kind), it doesn't mean they control every little organization on earth. Look at what caused them to do so, background info. What are their goals? Etc. Muslims did kill him, but who made the muslims do it?\

OK, THEY DID KILL HIM! I AGREE! THANKS ALMIGHTY GOD.


Another NWO mandate is population reduction. It is rumored that they want to kill us off to reduce the population.


Why do they want to kill us? Isn't more slaves better than less?

NOT IF THE EARTH DIES OFF BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH PEOPLE.


How have they gone about doing that? AIDS, MS, Chronic Fatigue Syndrom, etc. The rumor is that the US military bioengineered a form of Brucella and released it into the population in the late 60's and onwards.


I doubt it very much that any government on earth could ever been making any form of micro organisms pre-1960, if not pre-1970. If they could do this, imagine what they could do with the recent stem-cell research. And yet, Bush (who is an alleged member or agent of the NWO) specifically says that no such research is to be done.

THEN IF BUSH SAID SO, HE MUST BE RIGHT! YOUR MICRO ORGANISM IDEAS ARE LAUGHABLE. WE HAD THE DOUBLE HELIX STRAND OF THE DNA MAPPED IN THE MID 40'S. WE COULD CLEARLY SEE MICRO ORGANISMS THROUGH ELECTRON MICROSCOPES IN THE 1930'S.

inventors.about.com...


The Noble Falsehood is something that Plato thought the leaders of a state were allowed to do: lying to your people because in the leaders eyes, it is for the best for them. I guess you can call it white lies. Only with the NWO, I suspect that their intentions are a little more evil than Plato's.


If there is a NWO, it opposes this statement. They're not doing it for the best of the people, but for the best of the really high-ups.

YES, THAT IS WHAT IT MEANT. SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION, THEY ARE LYING FOR THEIR BEST INTEREST.

Anyways, if they were protecting something like UFOs or aliens, then I can understand them. The kind of stuff that society just can't take, sure, there are those things. But for an open society to work, cases like JFK and the Saudi-Oil connection should be made public ASAP. No honest society can live with this kind of BS.

RIGHT.





posted on Jun, 21 2004 @ 04:16 AM
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Ok, so we know that economic cooperation is a good thing here, that is not the fear that arises from the NWO.
The fear is loss of individual liberty. OK, so we see the IMF, on the outside they seem like a good thing. But what can happen when you start mixing the economy with other types of legislation as is being done with the EU? Corruption. What can happen when you have less people dictating the many as is the case with the EU? less bureocrat BS, but more Corruption

That is what the people lack, they lack trust that the people who run around in tight clics with each other all throughout history won't sell them out on important issues. With every administration there is an official who was on another president's administration, going back infinitum.

Will our countries know when to stop...do they have that much self-control...do they believe interests of the nation first, then the people? Or do they realize that is all the people of the country who make the nation strong? We don't know, all of our politicians are largely impersonal and foreign to us...



posted on Jun, 21 2004 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
OK, so we see the IMF, on the outside they seem like a good thing.

The IMF only seem like a good thing to the West. To see how they effect the rest of the World, I would suggest you have a look at the New Internationalist issue on this topic. Or read Joseph Steiglitz book on the issue, Globalisation and Its Discontents. He was Chief Economist for the World Bank, and has won a Nobel Prize for Economics, and as such he seems to be a critic who is worth listening to.
The McCarthyite anti-Communist wtich hunts were in the '50s, not the '60s.
A government which controls everything is called a totalitarian state. Communism is simply one manifestation of totalitarianism.
Regarding why we do not here theories of a NWO from Europe, Asia, Australia. Europe- we do. In this case it is generally wrapped around fears about the E.U. I don't know if I buy into it, but it happens.
Australia- has all the same issues as the US. It has the same style of media, showing the same programmes/films, and it has a very similar consumerist attitude. Anything that is said of the US can be felt to aply there. This is also true of Europe, we too have a consumerist society in which the media produce desires in order that they might be satisfied through the purchase of unnecessary products.
Russia- has become a society which seems to combine elements of oiglarchy with democracy. Yes, voting exists, ,but the media are still under attack from the state (at least that is the impression I getwithout having beenthere), but the collapse of the USSR has empowered gangsters more than it has people. They were the ones with significant wealth, and as such they were perfectly positioned to buy up the industries which had previously been nationalised. They now own a large chunk of Russia, so much so that Putin is having to take them to court to try and expropriate their funds.
Asia- what you said of the USSR in the past seems to hold true there where communism still dominates. But we don't mind any more. While we wouljdn't have considered trading with the Soviets, we're busy getting into bed with the Chinese. All that cheap labour from that repressed population. why should we care about the human rights violations. And guess who is the liason between US corporations and the Chinese state, working to get the best for US business- Neil Bush.
However, none of this necessarily comes from a malign cabal which dominates the world(though the IMF does seem to do its best). As I said earlier, it is dependent on a political and economic attitude/ culture. There does not need to be a NWO for the world to have a new order.



posted on Jun, 21 2004 @ 07:40 PM
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WHAT OTHER TERM IS THERE TO USE FOR A GOVERNING BODY WITH COMPLETE CONTROL OVER A SOCIETY?


Fascism, maybe? Many people think that communism was fascism, I did too once. But a friend of mine have educated me on this matter, so I now know that communism as an ideology is not the same thing as communism as we see it in China, North Korea, Cuba and, at that time, in the Soviet Union.


A COUPLE OF NAMES TO GET YOU STARTED: THE ROCKEFELLERS AND NATHAN ROTHCHILD, THE GOVENOR OF THE BANK OF ENGLAND. THEY APPARENTLY BEGAN FROM THE KNIGHTS OF TEMPLAR BACK IN THE EARLY TO MID 1700'S.


Yeah, I know about those things. I know about the Knights Templar, that they started the modern banking. I know there are rich people, and that they have great influence in politics, but I doubt that there is one single body that controls everything, or intend to.


NOT SURE IF YOU HAVE DONE ANY TRAVELLING, BUT IN MANY OTHER PARTS OF OUR WORLD, PEOPLE ARE SO OPRESSED DUE TO VARIOUS FACTORS LIKE RELIGION, FAMINE, ETC. THAT DICTATORSHIP DOES NOT BEGIN TO CAPTURE THE ESSENCE OF WHAT THEY LIVE UNDER.


As I said, do the world become one great dictatorship if only America does? Yes, I am aware of the bad situations around the world. What about Europe? Russia? Do they get dictators overnight once the president of the US becomes a dictator?


I DON'T KNOW, ASK THE MEMBERS OF THE ILLUMINATI.


Okay, let's expand this. Did you know that the Illuminati and the Masons were oppressed in the 18th century? Does this organization sound like an organization with big influence? What I know, the Illuminati I have read about are making things better, they support science, free thought, they opposed the dictatorship of the church at that time etc. So even if they were behind the revolutions in France and America, wouldn't that be a good thing? Would we even know what "free thinking" was, had these revolutions not occured?


WE DO, BUT SINCE YOU APPEAR TO NOT HAVE READ ANYTHING ON THIS GROUP, THESE QUESTIONS CAN EASILY BE ANSWERED IF YOU DO JUST THAT.


What group?


THINK: ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT MEANS INTERNATIONAL.


Yes, I know that. International means better relations too. Better understanding of other nations. No war. Would you prefer a world with war instead?


AS FOR UNPROVEN THEORIES, YOU SEEM TO BE MISSING IT. LOOK AT OURSELVES. MY SUGGESTION IS CAPATILISM MAY NOT BE THE BEST FOR US IN THE FUTURE, AND THE NWO THINKS ALONG THE SAME LINES.


All political factions, on paper, are perfect. In reality, they are really bad. Of course, capitalism gives smaller groups the rights to write down the way we should live. Their ways. But if the NWO (the Illuminati-type) is thinking along these lines, and if they strive for a world where everybody is happy, then I don't have a problem...


UNFORTUNATELY, CAPATALISM DOES AFFORD EACH MEMBER WITH A NICE SET OF RIGHTS, WHICH WOULD SEEM TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, LIKE IN A COMMUNIST SOCIETY, TO HAVE TO BE CURBED SOMEWHAT IF CAPATILISM WERE TO BE REPLACED WITH SOMETHING MORE TENABLE FOR OUR FUTURE.


If they are "evil", then fascism is what they prefer.


YOU ASK ME LIKE I KNOW. ASK THEM, THEY HAVE THE BLUEPRINT FOR OUR FUTURE.


Well, you speak like you know their goals... and what they are doing now...


I USED TO LIVE THERE. TRY STANDING IN LINE FOR 1 DAY TO GET A LOAF OF BREAD. THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE STORES, ETC. LET ME GUESS, YOU ARE THE TYPICAL BRAINWASHED PERSON THAT WE LAUGH AT: THE ONE THE NWO LOVES.


Yes, my family experience that most of the time. Standing in line. I never said I loved the way we lived. I'm saying that the poor in most countries live in even harder conditions than this, thanks to the Western nations.


YOU ARE AN ARMCHAIR CRITIC, UNLESS YOU TELL ME YOU ACTUALLY LIVED THROUGH IT!


Can you tell that you lived through it?


PROOF? EVEN IF IT WERE MUSLIMS, HOW DO YOU KNOW THE AMERICANS WERE NOT BEHIND IT?


When American agencies don't have permission to be in Saudi-Arabia, the most logical assumtion is that muslims did this. How do we know muslims were in those planes who crashed into the WTC on 9/11-2001?

And I did mean that I think all this terrorist war is, in some way, influenced by Western nations.


NOT IF THE EARTH DIES OFF BECAUSE OF TOO MUCH PEOPLE.


There are theories that earth could sustain 10 billion people, and still be within the limits of overpopulation. However, once the NWO is in control, they could just as well shuffle people to concentration camps and kill them, without questions asked. No need for viruses...


THEN IF BUSH SAID SO, HE MUST BE RIGHT!


He has already signed a LAW that restricts stem-cell research. If it is done in secret is another thing. But wouldn't it be better if people, in public, did the research too? What if someone comes up with something that the scientists at Area 51 (or wherever) can't?


YOUR MICRO ORGANISM IDEAS ARE LAUGHABLE. WE HAD THE DOUBLE HELIX STRAND OF THE DNA MAPPED IN THE MID 40'S. WE COULD CLEARLY SEE MICRO ORGANISMS THROUGH ELECTRON MICROSCOPES IN THE 1930'S.


We could see stars through a telescope 500 years ago. Just because we can see it doesn't mean we can manipulate it.



posted on Jun, 21 2004 @ 11:11 PM
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Dear Armchair Critic:

I lived through Communism. I recently arrived in North America after living here for sometime and then moving back to Poland. We could manipulate organisms and micro organisms decades ago, that is what pharmaceuticals are for and have been around, as you know, for a long time. Your theory about 10 billion is cool, where is your reference? If you think the current system is good and the Bush Administration is not influenced by an evil source, great.

Best Wishes.



posted on Jun, 22 2004 @ 05:10 PM
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I lived through Communism. I recently arrived in North America after living here for sometime and then moving back to Poland.


I was talking about Russia, not Poland.


We could manipulate organisms and micro organisms decades ago, that is what pharmaceuticals are for and have been around, as you know, for a long time.


I still don't believe that we could have developed a virus in the magnitude of AIDS. If you know something, then please, I am open for proof. As are everybody else on ATS, I presume.


Your theory about 10 billion is cool, where is your reference?


Go to www.wikipedia.org, and search on "overpopulation".
Besides, it's not my theory. I never said it was. I said it was a theory. I don't necessary believe it, and I don't go arround cheering for our planet to be overpopulated. But it's always good to keep these thing in mind.


If you think the current system is good and the Bush Administration is not influenced by an evil source, great.


I never said I liked Bush, or that I supported him (which I'm unable to, since I'm not American and do not live in the USA).

I'm saying that people have these theories about a secret organization that want to take over the world. I have had these thoughts myself before, but the more I looked into it, the more I realized that we need something to go on, not just the everyday theories that someone from claims to be true to sell his books.

Sure, I know consumerism is bad. I know that our politics are corrupted, our systems are based on money and not common sense, among other things. But they have been like this in a long time. And by destroying a system, a new rises, only to be corrupted, and in time, collapse again.

Political systems? Communism was ruled by a small elite. Democracy and capitalism are too, I suspect. At least the latter one.

But not necessary one sole organization. More possible, many smaller ones.

I am open minded to all kind of theories. I consider your theory, others' theories on ATS, as well as anywhere else on the Internet. But you have to agree, the "bigger the theory, the bigger the need for proof" will become.

[edit on 2004/6/23 by RX84]



posted on Jun, 22 2004 @ 09:36 PM
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The real worry is those who Implement and Execute all the Executive Orders in existence but of course by that time it will be too late!



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 05:53 PM
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JFK was a damn good conspiracy. I'd take this as an example, that something happens, there are a kind of coverup, but this coverup leaves traces of things that can be discovered by the general public. It's this that I am talking about. Too bad I don't live in the USA... can't reach the National Archives from here...



posted on Jun, 23 2004 @ 06:35 PM
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Really how the hell does anyone know there will be an NWO or there wont? Can you see into the future? If you tell me you can...ill call you a liar, and crazy.





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