James Carrion - "Announcing The Center for UFO Truth"

Originally posted by easynow
some people might disagree there hasn't been any results

I wonder what those people think we have to show for it.

Originally posted by easynow if there was some secret worldwide concerted effort to promote the subject of ufo's as a cover for military operations and secret projects, how could they keep something like that a secret ?

That question is asked a lot about theories that claim the government is covering up aliens.

Originally posted by easynow
doesn't the mere fact there isn't much 'document' evidence to support the "government is behind it all" theory " prove Carrion is approaching this whole thing from the wrong perspective ?

I am sure proponents have (what they feel) is plenty of documentation supporting their case.

Originally posted by easynow
...Carol Rosin testified at the Disclosure project conference that Werner Van Braun warned her about this concerning the use of space based weapons.

I think Carol Rosin is a lying using the fame of a dead-man to push a political agenda. Of course, I have about as much proof Dr. Rosin is lying as she does that she is telling the truth.

Originally posted by easynow
James Carrion is approaching this the wrong way due to ignorance and his lack of experience.

Mr. Carrion does seem to be delving into an extremist fringe of ufo research, promoted by some of the most angry, delusional and paranoid researchers (and believers) out there. I hope we do not find him screaming about Bluebeam and the NWO.

Originally posted by easynow
how can James Carrion ignore the fact the military industrial complex has been studying ufo's since the 50's and 60's ? would the M.I.C. study their own hoax

I do not think he is ignoring this at all. He may be looking at it as a case of right-hand and left-hand.

Originally posted by easynow
that is a possibility i have considered and i did notice Carrion was doing everything he could to debunk the Roswell case.

And that makes him a disinfo agent why? Oh yes, I forgot that anyone who doesn't support your beliefs is an automatic disinfo-agent.

reply to post by easynow


Nice find, easynow!

Personally I think this new "organization" is a bit lopsided. I'm surprised that something coming from a former MUFON director isn't more scientific in nature. It's clear as day that Carrion already has a conviction about what UFO's are, and is going to set out to try to "prove" that conviction. He is not treating this like a hypothesis... at no point could this organization ever claim to have "disproven" the theory that the government is behind UFO's, you can count on that. It's going to be either "proven" or "still investigating." Even if all the evidence they find points to the contrary, Carrion will keep digging because he's already convinced that he knows the truth, and that's all there is to it.

However, I am still somewhat glad to see what might be a concerted effort to dig through all that international UFO documentation. As long as there is still a truly scientific ufological organization like MUFON out there, it might be good to have someone putting a little extra pressure on the black projects theory, in case it really is true after all.

Originally posted by cripmeister

CUT will work outside of the three ring circus that is Ufology and will not accept the contributions of anonymous individuals or alleged whistleblowers nor will it examine alleged leaked documents.

OT, I like Carrion, he accused Open Minds of being a intelligence disinformation site

I don't think it's OT to say you like Carrion in a thread about Carrion!

He elaborates more about the three ring circus of UFOlogy mentioned in the CUT blog entry, in a previous blog entry April 5, 2010:

Goodbye Ufology, Hello Truth

People are easily manipulated because we are all subject to the psychological pressures of ego, biased beliefs and tunnel vision. For example, those that KNOW that earth is being visited by aliens have blinders on and no amount of alternative explanation will convince them otherwise. They are the die hard in the wool believers for whom Ufology serves as a religion to confirm their beliefs that they take on faith. On the other end of the spectrum are the debunkers who must counter every claim with a reason why it can’t be so, without bothering to examine the data or lift a finger in conducting original research of their own.

Whoa! Wait a minute, what about those who don’t take things on faith and actually collect data and conduct investigation? Good question. I decided to examine the data collection and investigative practices in Ufology, and after poring over thousands of historical case files from MUFON, NICAP and APRO investigators in the MUFON archives, what I found, was inconsistent investigation with a total lack of evidentiary standards. I also found a paper trail of disinformation and misinformation that has kept Ufology in check through infighting and red herrings, rabbit holes and elaborate deception operations.

The rest of that blog entry is very insightful. After reading it I was pretty impressed with him. But I have a wait and see attitude on this CUT effort since the mission statement almost seems to portray a preconceived bias which he just lambasted in the April blog entry, part of which is quoted above.

reply to post by easynow

Sckeptical investigation should be welcomed

Propaganda should be ignored

There is nothing wrong with skeptical investigation the problem comes from the pre-established view point , which you allude to

reply to post by Magnus47

Nice find, easynow!

Personally I think this new "organization" is a bit lopsided.

thanks Magnus47, i appreciate your input on this and it does seem like this new venture is a bit lopsided but all we can do is wait and see if he is able to produce some verifiable results and go from there



reply to post by mnemeth1


where did i say Skeptical investigation shouldn't be welcomed ?

pre-established view point , which you allude to

what pre established viewpoint ?

do you mean the one Carrion is broadcasting on his blog ?


[edit on 27-6-2010 by easynow]

reply to post by easynow


Easynow.....

Thanks....I shall have a good look at that.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


yea check those links i posted on page one in that reply to you. the Pdf document from Carrion is pretty interesting and he alludes to Kenneth Arnold being part of the CIA covert operation.


i am finding Project Seal to be a quite interesting subject.

Top secret wartime experiments were conducted off the New Zealand coast to perfect a tidal wave bomb believed to be potentially as effective as the atom bomb, a report said yesterday citing declassified files.

Auckland University professor Thomas Leech set off a series of underwater explosions triggering mini-tidal waves at Whangaparaoa, just north of Auckland, in 1944 and 1945, the New Zealand Herald reported.

His work was considered so significant that US defense chiefs said if the project had been completed before the end of the war it could have played a role as effective as that of the atom bomb.

Details of the tsunami bomb, known as Project Seal, are contained in 53-year-old documents released by the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Papers stamped "top secret" show the US and British military were eager for Seal to be developed in the post-war years too. They even considered sending Leech to Bikini Atoll to view the US nuclear tests and see if they had any application to his work

www.rense.com...

Thanks for posting this. I have heard much of this subject attributed to being propaganda. I will have to look in to Project Seal , i did not have a name to go on before. Perhaps Project Seal is another fabrication in disinformation like project blue book? Perhaps it is a bit of both? That much propaganda being just that for the cold war. And at the same time there was a real phenomena going on?

Now ask yourself this. If the entirety of UFO cases are explained and propaganda then why the secrecy today? The cold war has been over for 20 years plus. Yet we are still getting the run around? Why not declassify all of it and im sure people would accept it or most would. So do you think James Carrion is being fed disinfo?

That is what I am thinking ?

OR maybe they are killing two birds with one stone. has an excuse for what they HAVE been hiding, also using it to distract and confuse the soviets? Maybe they are still using it as a ploy to hide black projects today and instead the soviets it is us who are being fooled? I hate to draw a conclusion i will have to investigate further. There is just too much "rendlesham forest" stuff like that to say it was all for propaganda right now at least for me. With that said a declassified paper and a MUFON director does not change history of UFOligy and the countless cases. No more than Steve Greer and NRO docs.

If all the projects and reports were declassified and the powers that be declared complete transparency would you still trust them? How would we know those papers are real? The same goes for the majestic papers what do we know? How do we know those are all the papers. Like all these countries disclosing piles of documents and reports in the last year. How do we know if that is all or we are getting peanuts? We don't, and why would they disclose it for so long in the first place. The actions do not justify the means. Like with Roswell they gave it credence by changing the official story several times even in 1996 once again with the crash test dummies excuse only for it to backfire once again. Says to me it really happened. It does not take 5 lies and 50 years to come clean. And they still haven't.


If someone is suspicious acts guilty and lies to me for years would it be logical to say hey i trust you now lets clean the slate. There is an old saying...

If it looks like a snake , and it slithers like a snake , and it hisses like a snake... it is probably a snake

Who is James Carrion again?


end of rant

[edit on 27-6-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

reply to post by Unknown Soldier

Perhaps Project Seal is another fabrication in disinformation like project blue book?

i don't think Project Seal was a fabrication and it makes perfect sense the M.I.C. would be experimenting with weapons like that during that era.

Project Seal ( also known as the Tsunami bomb) was a programme by the New Zealand military to develop a weapon that could create destructive tidal waves. This weapon was tested in Whangaparaoa off the coast of Auckland between 1944-1945.

en.wikipedia.org...

i'm having a bit of trouble finding the original version of the the documents released by the New Zealand government.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b88ecd10bc16.png[/atsimg]
scilib.ucsd.edu...



i did find these listings but it indicates James Carrion has modified them and i'm having trouble getting them to open up. (bad links ?? )
sharepoint.centerforufotruth.org:27894...
sharepoint.centerforufotruth.org:27894...

i wish i could find a clean copy of the Project Seal documents

Thanks

I just realized Project Seal is New Zeland not US docs? This kind of takes the propaganda thing out of the picture , i mean what does New Zeland have to do with all of this? Now this gets confusing im going to have a looksie.

Originally posted by easynow
The former Director for Mufon, James Carrion has announced he is creating a "historical research organization" and the intentions of this study group is to examine the possibility that the subject of ufo's was "purposely created by the United States and its allies as part of a cold war operation and perpetuated to this day for national security reasons"


Carrion claims this new organization (CUT) will focus their efforts on researching government archives worldwide and hopes this endeavor will somehow prove or disprove "the government is behind it all" theory.

I am proud to announce the formation of The Center for UFO Truth (CUT) .

CUT is not a UFO organization nor is it affiliated in any way with Ufology. Instead CUT is a historical research organization focused on examining the question long ignored by historians - was the UFO subject purposely created by the United States and its allies as part of a cold war operation and perpetuated to this day for national security reasons?

CUT will focus its efforts on research in official government archives, not only in the United States but all over the world, searching for authenticated official documents that can prove or disprove this theory.

followthemagicthread.blogspot.com...
files.abovetopsecret.com...

this seems like a noble effort on his part and sounds great but i am having a little trouble understanding why he is approaching it this way because in my opinion, the theory about "the government is behind it all" doesn't hold any water since there have been millions of ufo reports and many of them cannot be explained as being caused by anything made by human technology. the idea that all ufo sightings were orchestrated by some hypothetical worldwide government magic show is preposterous.


Carrion claims 60 years has gone by and yielded no results

Unfortunately,the field of Ufology has nothing to show for more than 60 years of investigation and research.

followthemagicthread.blogspot.com...

some people might disagree there hasn't been any results but doesn't the "nothing to show" opinion he is favoring sorta prove the government could not be behind the whole thing ? if there was some secret worldwide concerted effort to promote the subject of ufo's as a cover for military operations and secret projects, how could they keep something like that a secret ? doesn't the mere fact there isn't much 'document' evidence to support the "government is behind it all" theory " prove Carrion is approaching this whole thing from the wrong perspective ?

in all fairness i have to say there is some evidence the government or military industrial complex has taken advantage of and enjoyed the ufo cover story to help maintain the secrecy of projects like the F117 stealth fighter and Carol Rosin testified at the Disclosure project conference that Werner Van Braun warned her about this concerning the use of space based weapons.

the bottom line here is,

i have experienced a close encounter with something so profound it changed my life forever and it was not anything made by humans. many other people have reported similar situations so it's my opinion the entirety of ufo phenomena cannot all be attributed to the "government is doing it" theory and James Carrion is approaching this the wrong way due to ignorance and his lack of experience.

that's my opinion and i would like to hear yours

[edit on 27-6-2010 by easynow]

Easynow, well said, this guy is going in the wrong direction and is OBVIOUSLY ill informed, he should get the Disclosure Project National Press Club and witness testimony DVD', after viewing, he might have to think again.

Originally posted by easynow
i'm having a bit of trouble finding the original version of the the documents released by the New Zealand government.


i did find these listings but it indicates James Carrion has modified them and i'm having trouble getting them to open up. (bad links ?? )
sharepoint.centerforufotruth.org:27894...
sharepoint.centerforufotruth.org:27894...

i wish i could find a clean copy of the Project Seal documents

Hi easynow,

I was having problems viewing the documents to, clicking on the drop down menu and picking Download a Copy or any of the options asks for a login name/pass. So I tried clicking on the main link and finally got it to display after it timed out a bunch of times, and saved a copy. If you want me to email it to you or upload it somewhere I can do that. I took a quick look at it and it doesn't appear to be edited, it's 30 high-res photos of the document.

Also there's a copy availabe here
preview.tinyurl.com...
but it says Status: LIB USE ONLY
they might not have a PDF version.







[edit on 27-6-2010 by freelance_zenarchist]

reply to post by easynow
Hi easy; interesting find, my friend; I do wonder how Mr. Carrion will tie in documented reports and sightings from the last few centuries as being part of the PTB dis-info campaign

Thanks for the links; more interesting food for thought.

A tsunami bomb??? Methinks the rabbit hole doth get deeper...



seeker

Originally posted by easynow
The former Director for Mufon, James Carrion has announced he is creating a "historical research organization" and the intentions of this study group is to examine the possibility that the subject of ufo's was "purposely created by the United States and its allies as part of a cold war operation and perpetuated to this day for national security reasons"

There are Brazilian accounts of UFO encounters and Satellite launchings that predate Neil Armstrong...

I support this endeavour one hundred percent as the rabbit hole leads to satellite communications and effects that effect us all.

Star and flag...and two huge thumbs up to James Carrion...

reply to post by Unknown Soldier

I just realized Project Seal is New Zeland not US docs? This kind of takes the propaganda thing out of the picture , i mean what does New Zeland have to do with all of this?

Project Seal was a multi partnered weapons research project conducted by the New Zealand military. please check the wiki listing because it clearly explains the events. en.wikipedia.org...

what does New Zealand have to do with this ?

not much really, the connection involves supposed counter intelligence operations that were using the ufo cover story and the mystery of the New Zealand Weapons experiments to confuse the Soviet Union. if you really want to know what Carrion is proposing then you need to read this article scilib.ucsd.edu...

reply to post by freelance_zenarchist


thank you my friend i really appreciate your help

it's people like you that make ATS a great place

reply to post by the seeker_713g

Hi easy; interesting find, my friend; I do wonder how Mr. Carrion will tie in documented reports and sightings from the last few centuries as being part of the PTB dis-info campaign
Thanks for the links; more interesting food for thought.
A tsunami bomb??? Methinks the rabbit hole doth get deeper...
seeker

hey seeker good to hear from you again,

i don't think he can tie ALL ufo reports to the military magic show LOL

it is possible some ufo cases have been fabricated for counter intelligence operations and we would be fools not to consider that but in my opinion, the reason Carrion is choosing this new direction is he got burnt out from all the hoaxes and lost in all the dis-info and because of that he's now throwing the baby out with the bath water.

thanks for the reply and it should be quite entertaining to see what happens with this. cheers

[edit on 28-6-2010 by easynow]

Originally posted by easynow

I am proud to announce the formation of The Center for UFO Truth (CUT) .

CUT is not a UFO organization nor is it affiliated in any way with Ufology. Instead CUT is a historical research organization focused on examining the question long ignored by historians - was the UFO subject purposely created by the United States and its allies as part of a cold war operation and perpetuated to this day for national security reasons?

Hi easynow, that is very interesting [as always] and remarkable indeed, thanks for bringing this under our attention.

I would expect that especially he as a former Director for Mufon must know by now due all the available information there is about it what despite all the hoaxes and disinformation is going on regarding that phenomenon.

Therefore I really don’t understand that he even consider that question/investigation as being serious.

On one hand he said that CUT is not a UFO organization nor is it affiliated in any way with Ufology but at the other hand he is proud to announce the organization name as (CUT) which contains the words “UFO Truth”.

I did notice this; your link here below is dated Friday, June 25, 2010

followthemagicthread.blogspot.com...

In this link I found is the date Monday, April 5, 2010

followthemagicthread.blogspot.com...

But it has some more information given by James Carrion, so I thought it could be interesting.

Perhaps it is posted already, if so, sorry, but I did post it to be sure.

Here is one remarkable excerpt from it.

2009 – Unsettling information I discovered with Dr. Frank Salisbury about the Skinwalker Ranch that calls into question the validity of experiences described in the book “Hunt for the Skinwalker”.

I have bought that book and are reading it now, I knew already of the very strange happenings on that ranch and it looks to me as if it has indeed a connection with the UFO/ET phenomenon.

I go read all the thread postings now.

Thanks again buddy.