Does a fetus feel pain before 24 weeks of gestation?

reply to post by JRho900


Thanks for supplying that information.

I do think that a fetus starts to feel pain very early on, and Dr.'s who perform abortions, would be out of business if that information came to light. It's a big business!

Today, I have found discrepencies alone as to what weeks experts are saying pain is felt, between 20 and 24 weeks, but, if nerves and such are developed long before that, I think these studies are full of crap claiming later weeks!



[edit on 26-6-2010 by Blanca Rose]

Originally posted by slugger9787
The real question here is PAIN.
Physical pain.
My worms recoil when I impale them on the hook.
The point is they feel the hook as a painful threat to their existence.
I conclude that a baby human in the womb can feel and sense and react to the same threat.

Agreed,
Simple, elegant and obvious criteria in that: If it reacts to the stimulus it ipso facto: it feels said stimulus.

The article reminds me of the wave of bad science that seems to be targeted at justifying actions. Where there is no real experiments, and what experiments there are are poor and ill interpreted. (and PLEASE don't attribute that statement to any theories that are contested, lets not derail things when there are already 10,000 threads for that stuff).

Anyway, need to sleep. Will talk later.

It would NOT matter about the age of the baby... If you CAN see the baby does have a smile... then you KNOW that the baby DOES have feelings. And besides that, it IS a "mother-child" situation where a mother would_know if her child is in pain... something about being 'a mother's bond WITH her baby.'

You guys are missing the point entirely. You're so caught up in your emotions that you fail to realize the KEY WORDS that go against everything you're trying to argue.

It said that before 24 weeks, the fetus is in an UNCONSCIOUS state, so it cannot feel pain...IN THE WOMB.

This is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT that being 23 weeks old and OUT OF THE WOMB, BORN. I would imagine that once it was born, it becomes conscious and therefore able to feel.

Think of it this way....if you have surgery and you are under anaesthesia, do you feel pain? Do you feel them cutting you open? NO, you don't. Sometimes you do if they don't administer enough anaesthesia...this happens very very rarely, it's called anaesthesia awareness. But for the MAJORITY of people, you will never feel a thing. You'll be UNCONSCIOUS.

This is the SAME exact thing that they are relaying in the article. Comparing an UNBORN, UNCONSCIOUS fetus to a BORN, CONSCIOUS infant so like "comparing an apple to an orange".

Do NOT try to argue that because they are two completely different things.

reply to post by tsi1991awd


Really, then why does the abortionist give the baby anesthesia after sixteen weeks gestation before he kills the baby?

Whether or not a 24 week old fetus feels pain or not, why would anyone wanting an abortion wait that long? That is 6 months pregnant. In Canada, when someone finds out they are pregnant, and want an abortion, it is done before 10 weeks. At least it used to be. Over the 16 week point is getting a little late. Or they carry full term and adopt it out.

The only reason I could even think of why someone would have a really late term abortion is if the fetus is already dead/dying, in that case, moot point. Or if it is likely to kill the mother. If it's rape result, get it done early, like at 7 or 8 weeks. Apparently, according to what my doctor told me, 10 percent of pregnancies miscarry within the first trimester.

Absolutely, from experience. My girl was born at 23 wks, forever ago. She's now 23. I was realllly young and had a hard time carrying her. Back in '87 good care for preemies was just getting started.
Anyway, right after she was born She had a pneumothorax, a collapsed lung, and had to have a tube inserted to release the air pocket. They couldnt use an anesthetic because of the complications of being premature and any negative reaction from being so tiny. BTW, she was 2 lbs 4 oz and the biggest baby there. One was as little as 14 oz!!
They did the surgery right in her incubator. When they made the incision it was very obvious she was in pain. She reacted just as We would if we were cut into with a scalpel. Her arms and legs flailed and then she became rigid. God, how horrible. The hardest 3 months for her...now shes so rebelious I could choke her out...LOL.
Right before I got pregnant there was a girl in my school who had an abortion when she was 24 wks pregnant. They actually induced labor so she would give birth to her bcuz She was too far along for a D&C. An abortion is an abortion, right? The baby's not born yet so it's not a big deal. Like I said I was very young. I didnt know better. No one had 'the talk' with me. I never thought twice about it until my girl was born just shy of 24 wks. That little girl had a very good chance of surviving. Somebody wouldve loved to have adopted her. Made my heart hurt, still does when I think about it.
I'm pro-choice but there has to be a much earlier cut-off date. IDK what it should be. I do know that 24 wks is wayyyy too late.

Kim...forgive my spelling...at work..

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by tsi1991awd

 

Really, then why does the abortionist give the baby anesthesia after sixteen weeks gestation before he kills the baby?

It is called being humane. Why the hell do they give murderers, rapists, etc. a relaxing agent before killing them (lethal injection)?? Because it's the HUMANE thing to do.

Same *SNIP* thing man.

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[edit on 26/6/2010 by Mirthful Me]

reply to post by tsi1991awd


Thank you very much for making a valid point. I am one of those people who woke up, during an operation! While I was feeling no pain, I sat right up, and said hello to the Dr., and the last thing I remember was the Dr. yelling at the anethesiologist!

They called me the next day from the Dr.'s office to apologize, saying it had never happened before.

I will say again, I was feeling no pain, but I sat up, in the middle of an operation, and talked!

Therefore I was, even though I was not feeling pain!

reply to post by snowspirit


In the states you can get an abortion, if the mother chooses to terminate after 10 weeks, unlike you can in Canada.

The point is, from the articles, can the fetus feel pain?

I linked another article that shows nerve connections are already there, in a fetus of 8 weeks! And others have shown by posts, brain development.

Like I say, I am pro choice, but, I think these studies saying they can't feel pain until 24 weeks, are off.

reply to post by Demetre



My heart goes out to you, for what you now know. I greatly appreciate your experience being shared with us all.

Hopefully, the daughter is doing quite well, after being through such an ordeal!

reply to post by slugger9787


Are you sure it's the abortionist giving the baby the anesthesia?

On a side note, while I was growing up in a suburb of Illinois, a friend of mine had a father who did abortions. He was a legit Doctor.

He was murdered, along with a patient and a nurse, and found in the trunk of a car. It was awful.

I guess he was supplying a service that people were willing to pay for, but to be killed for it?

reply to post by Blanca Rose


I guess the same thing happened to Tiller.
Karma is a bitch.

Heya all, I would like to add my opinion as a fellow female.

I've heard many people saying its their choice, their baby, that they have a right to what they do with their own body but surely the foetus has a right to their own body?

Just cause someone doesn't feel pain doesn't stop it being murder. So as many parents have 25 years in prison due to murdering their children, why not the same with foetus'?

Of course it depends with the circumstances. I think to myself if this was an result from rape, what would I do? I say now that I wouldn't destroy it but who knows? Family plays a major role.

I wouldn't want the burden of blood on my hand. Everything has a right to life and shouldn't br be destroyed for selfish reasons. I hear people wanting more disposable income to go on holidays, live in mansions so therefore don't have children.

Children bring happiness, joy and magnificence into our lives.
I think we should respect that.


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reply to post by BlackPoison94


Thanks for adding your opinion. Sometimes children don't come at the time appointed for, but, they are a gift, and they move around in your belly, long before these studies show they feel no pain. They move to music, hiccup, kick, and just make themselves, known.

I'm a man - so some would say I should have no opinion. I disagree. In fact, I say BS!

It was all men that made it legal. The 1973 Supreme Court...

1973 Supreme Court

As for the pain, I think SILENT SCREAM says it all.

I wouldn't dare tell a woman what to do with her body in regards to her baby.

But I basically helped my sister with her kids full time while she was working and I don't know what I'd do if they weren't around. Love those little guys so much.

If I had a lady with a child on the way and she wanted to get an abortion I would be very much upset, I don't know what I'd do.

reply to post by Judohawk

"I wouldn't dare tell a woman what to do with her body in regards to her baby."

What if it was your wife and you wanted your child to be born so you could give him/her a great life?

I don't want to hijack the thread so I'll step out. But this is something I feel strongly about. Sorry.

Peace and love.

Bye

Abortion on demand in the USA is done all the way through a pregnancy. There is a thing called Partial-Birth abortion that is used in the later stages of a pregnancy. What the abortionist does is deliver the baby until only her head is still inside the mother's body. He then stabs a pair of scissors into the base of her skull, the he sucks her brains out through a tube, the skull collapses and he pulls the baby out.
Then they sell her parts to the highest bidder. There is a big demand for fetal tissue by researchers and it is a very lucrative procedure.

I am not making this up, do some research and you will find it.

Abortion is giving the Death Sentence to an innocent child because of her place of residence - her mothers womb.



[edit on 26-6-2010 by Starbug3MY]

In the early 80's I found myself pregnant with a child that had several serious birth defects. Yes, my doctor gave me choices, abort, deliver and allow no doctor intervention (eventual death) or deliver, allow the pediatric surgeons, neonatologists, etc. do what that could and pray that the child would live and have a normal life. I chose the latter. Immediately after my daughter was born, she was taken into surgery ~ a surgery that lasted 4 hours. She was born at 38 weeks, which is considered full term. After the surgery was complete I spend a good deal of time discussing the procedures with the Ped. Surgeon. One question I asked was regarding anesthesia and pain. I was informed that no anesthesia was used during surgery because, 1)it is too risky to use general anesthesia on a newborn and 2)although newborns and fetus in utero have some level of physical feeling, the majority of their nerve endings are not fully developed at birth. It was explained to me that although an in utero fetus and a newborn will respond to certain stilmuli (such as ice), the actual nerve endings are not developed enough to feel more subtle stimuli. It was very difficult for me to accept the fact that my child had gone through major surgery at the age of 30 minutes, with no anesthesia so I did an amazing amount of research and sure enough, what I found was exactly what I was told. When my child was 10 months old and needed additional surgery, general anesthesia was used, but with great caution. When using general anesthesia on an infant, there is a 50% mortality rate from the anesthesia alone. Although my daughter had a very difficult start to her life and spent months in the hospital, she survived and is now a doctor herself. After going through the entire experience (3 years) my only question now is just how far do we let these masked gods of modern medicine go to save a life? 30 years later I still do not have an answer. Would I make the same decision today that I made 30 years ago. Absolutely!!!