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God, Christianity, Control, and Fear

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posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by Naughty B0B
 


You are aware that this type of thread is pretty much copy pasted form the thousands that have come before it right? Come on what do you want to hear? Im really getting sick of these type of threads. "If god is real why this and why that". Now im not christian so could care less what you think of god and jesus but this kind of crap is getting really old.
So let me ask you if you and all of these anti-christian people are oh so smart as they are not fooled but things like christianity then why is it that nobody can come up with anything original. If anyone sounds brainwashed or indoctrinated it is you and people like you. See the thing is christains may not be perfect but they are not running around acting like they wrote the bible and is somehow a reflection of their hard work and deep thoughts. You and people like you on the otherhand come here and every other forum on the internet to post the same old crap.
so in a nutshell:
Maybe if you formed your own opinions once in a while, instead of parroting everything Dawkins spits out of his sinful mouth, you could truly see the glory of God

edit to add:
Count down till moved to BTS


[edit on 23-6-2010 by zaiger]




posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:08 AM
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reply to post by zaiger
 


Nice Ad Hom attack dude.

Maybe the reason we doubters sometimes use the same arguments is because we came to the same conclusions.

I started doubting the Bible before I even had an internet connection and what did I find the moment I plugged into the online community, low and behold other people had come to similar conclusions and brought up similar flaws in the Bible and the belief system surrounding it...

Also most, if not all, of these commonly used arguments never receive a good answer from believers - and that's the point they are the arguments most likely to actually make a believer stop and go "I never thought of it that way".

Why should the OP have to rely on obscure arguments against Christianity to suit your personal desire for originality?



[edit on 23-6-2010 by Titen-Sxull]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by Naughty B0B
 


You are aware that this type of thread is pretty much copy pasted form the thousands that have come before it right? Come on what do you want to hear? Im really getting sick of these type of threads. "If god is real why this and why that". Now im not christian so could care less what you think of god and jesus but this kind of crap is getting really old.
So let me ask you if you and all of these anti-christian people are oh so smart as they are not fooled but things like christianity then why is it that nobody can come up with anything original. If anyone sounds brainwashed or indoctrinated it is you and people like you. See the thing is christains may not be perfect but they are not running around acting like they wrote the bible and is somehow a reflection of their hard work and deep thoughts. You and people like you on the otherhand come here and every other forum on the internet to post the same old crap.
so in a nutshell:
Maybe if you formed your own opinions once in a while, instead of parroting everything Dawkins spits out of his sinful mouth, you could truly see the glory of God


Oh lord I've struck a nerve. I have a right to speak my mind just like you and anyone else on here. Why don't you stop reading threads like these if it gets you so worked up? I'm not claiming any of this is original. It was just on my mind at the time. I'm sorry that people like me like to question things. I know it's hard for you. I'm sure it sucks having to go back to reality for a moment. Just continue to be controlled and I'll continue to use my brain okay?

I love how you say you're not a Christian and then later on say "Maybe if you formed your own opinions once in a while, instead of parroting everything Dawkins spits out of his sinful mouth, you could truly see the glory of God"[b/]

Yeah, you're obviously not a Christian. Are you ashamed?

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by slank
Just a couple of off the cuff tangent points.

Religion does not operate in an evolutionary vacuum.

Religions couldn't even begin to pull people in unless it mostly co-opted their evolutionarily inclined ideas/behaviors.

It isn't all religion's synthesis,
Much more of it is our genetically driven inclinations.


So if humans are genetically disposed to religion, that would mean it serves a useful survival purpose. So why argue against it? Would you argue against opposable thumbs? Why cripple humanity by removing something useful for survival?

Seems like all the more reason for the truly hard-core evolutionists to support it !



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 




Nice Ad Hom attack dude.


You are dam right it was anice ad hom. I wrote the book on ad hominem insults. Who you calling dude? Am i 14? Is this 1995?



Maybe the reason we doubters sometimes use the same arguments is because we came to the same conclusions.


"we doubters" is there a club now?



I started doubting the Bible before I even had an internet connection and what did I find the moment I plugged into the online community, low and behold other people had come to similar conclusions and brought up similar flaws in the Bible and the belief system surrounding it...


Yeah i really do not care why you do not think the bible is real, i really do not want to hear the back story, go to a dawkins convention and cry about it.



Also most, if not all, of these commonly used arguments never receive a good answer from believers - and that's the point they are the arguments most likely to actually make a believer stop and go "I never thought of it that way".


okay first off im not a "believer"... And the rest is BS you know dam well that you get the typical "it is all part of gods plan....that is why we have free will" answers. You ask a christian anything and they have an answer for it. Why do people continue to ask christians dumb question thinking that is will produce some miracle result. You act as if the will look up to you or start worshiping you or something.

reply to post by Naughty B0B
 




Oh lord I've struck a nerve. I have a right to speak my mind just like you and anyone else on here. Why don't you stop reading threads like these if it gets you so worked up? I'm not claiming any of this is original.

Struke a nerve? Hardly. Yes you have the right to speak just as i do. I just tend to think that threads like this are created soley for the purpose to get people rilled up against you for your beliefs. That is why it was created in conspiracies in religion, this has no conspiracy in it what so ever and there are many many many duplicate threads.



It was just on my mind at the time. I'm sorry that people like me like to question things.

You are sorry for questioning things?



I know it's hard for you. I'm sure it sucks having to go back to reality for a moment. Just continue to be controlled and I'll continue to use my brain okay?


Go back to reality? Im not christian... You are just another person who craps themselves over people with any sort of belief system are as obnoxious as the very people you whine about.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by zaiger]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by Naughty B0B
 




Oh lord I've struck a nerve. I have a right to speak my mind just like you and anyone else on here. Why don't you stop reading threads like these if it gets you so worked up? I'm not claiming any of this is original.

Struke a nerve? Hardly. Yes you have the right to speak just as i do. I just tend to think that threads like this are created soley for the purpose to get people rilled up against you for your beliefs. That is why it was created in conspiracies in religion, this has no conspiracy in it what so ever and there are many many many duplicate threads.



It was just on my mind at the time. I'm sorry that people like me like to question things.

You are sorry for questioning things?



I know it's hard for you. I'm sure it sucks having to go back to reality for a moment. Just continue to be controlled and I'll continue to use my brain okay?


Go back to reality? Im not christian... You are just another person who craps themselves over people with any sort of belief system are as obnoxious as the very people you whine about.


okay I believe you



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:34 AM
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Lets call team Jesus the Denver Broncos and team Satan the Miami dolphins whilst competive on the field against each other they are both part of a larger national football picture and off the field probably would share some beers and swap stories,its all a demented game and sick practical joke with humanity the butt of the joke our only hope is reason,rational thought and science its about time mankind tossed religion.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:36 AM
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I actually agree with everything that Titan Sxull said as well as the OP, however I only one question:

How much longer will this thread continue until a mod flags the excessive quotations posts and one line responses?

Just a thought,

King



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by Kingalbrect79
I actually agree with everything that Titan Sxull said as well as the OP, however I only one question:

How much longer will this thread continue until a mod flags the excessive quotations posts and one line responses?

Just a thought,

King


Hey thanks for the response. I'm glad you agree. This is my first thread...I made another that was a mistake though. I'm fairly new to this site so I'm sorry to any mods about all the mistakes. I forgot about the one line replies.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by zaiger
 




"we doubters" is there a club now?


Yep, we've got our own special hats and everything.



Yeah i really do not care why you do not think the bible is real, i really do not want to hear the back story, go to a dawkins convention and cry about it.


Seems like you have some strange obsession with Dawkins.

You are aware that people are capable of reaching similar conclusions without being spoon-fed right?



You ask a christian anything and they have an answer for it. Why do people continue to ask christians dumb question thinking that is will produce some miracle result.


Oh yeah they've got answers, very poor ones that usually fail on multiple levels.

Yeah you're right, we should just let Christians wallow in the ignorance they were indoctrinated into. There's no use actually attempting to DENY IGNORANCE or stimulate thought.


[edit on 23-6-2010 by Titen-Sxull]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 




Yeah you're right, we should just let Christians wallow in the ignorance they were indoctrinated into. There's no use actually attempting to DENY IGNORANCE or stimulate thought.


How in the world is trolling christians with retarded questions denying ignorance? Are you that full of yourself that you feel like you are doing someone some kind of service by bringing up the same regurgitated arguments against the bible over and over again? And then you go on to call christians ignorant for being christian? Sounds a little harsh... And how in the world do these same old arguments stimulate thought i have seen dog turds that were more interesting



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by zaiger
 


Did I say the Christians themselves were ignorant?

Nope.

I said their beliefs were and as a former Christian myself, as someone raised in a fundamentalist household, I 100% stand by that. Faith is, by definition, ignorant, its a belief that is not based on evidence - seems like basing what you believe on faith and not on evidence is, well, ignorant. You don't have to be ignorant to believe Christianity, you just have to be indoctrinated with it as a child to the point where it is second nature to you.

Once again you attack the arguments as being "turds" but offer no reason why other than that they've been used before. How do those arguments stimulate thought - because while you might have heard them before not every believer has and even many of those that have heard the arguments before haven't taken the time to contemplate them for one reason or another.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:14 AM
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Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 




Yeah you're right, we should just let Christians wallow in the ignorance they were indoctrinated into. There's no use actually attempting to DENY IGNORANCE or stimulate thought.


How in the world is trolling christians with retarded questions denying ignorance? Are you that full of yourself that you feel like you are doing someone some kind of service by bringing up the same regurgitated arguments against the bible over and over again? And then you go on to call christians ignorant for being christian? Sounds a little harsh... And how in the world do these same old arguments stimulate thought i have seen dog turds that were more interesting


No one is trolling here. I know that no one is going to suddenly become an atheist after reading anything I have to say. The point of this thread is to get people to think. If just one person questions their religion because of this thread then I've accomplished what I set out to do. It's healthy to question things. I hope you have finally learned your lesson on clicking threads like these.



[edit on 23-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 




Did I say the Christians themselves were ignorant?


Oh my appologies... So christians are not ignorant their belief (the very thing that makes them christian) is. it is so different.



You don't have to be ignorant to believe Christianity, you just have to be indoctrinated with it as a child to the point where it is second nature to you.


Really? So all christians are raised to be christians? For someone that jumped up so quickly to pint out my use of ad hominem attacks you seem pretty quick to leap to some BS conclusions that back up your belief.



Once again you attack the arguments as being "turds" but offer no reason why other than that they've been used before. How do those arguments stimulate thought - because while you might have heard them before not every believer has and even many of those that have heard the arguments before haven't taken the time to contemplate them for one reason or another.


You are going to tell me that these cliche arguments are going to be seen by someone that has not seen them before?

reply to post by Naughty B0B
 




If just one person questions their religion because of this thread then I've accomplished what I set out to do. It's healthy to question things. I hope you have finally learned your lesson on clicking threads like these.


LOL that looks like something a priest would say after trying to convert a group of people.


[edit on 23-6-2010 by zaiger]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 




Did I say the Christians themselves were ignorant?


Oh my appologies... So christians are not ignorant their belief (the very thing that makes them christian) is. it is so different.



You don't have to be ignorant to believe Christianity, you just have to be indoctrinated with it as a child to the point where it is second nature to you.


Really? So all christians are raised to be christians? For someone that jumped up so quickly to pint out my use of ad hominem attacks you seem pretty quick to leap to some BS conclusions that back up your belief.



Once again you attack the arguments as being "turds" but offer no reason why other than that they've been used before. How do those arguments stimulate thought - because while you might have heard them before not every believer has and even many of those that have heard the arguments before haven't taken the time to contemplate them for one reason or another.


You are going to tell me that these cliche arguments are going to be seen by someone that has not seen them before?


Yes. Believe it or not some people are afraid to question their beliefs. A lot of the time they're taught not to. I'm sure there's some people who have never even thought to ask something as simple as what if there's not a God? What if my religion is just as wrong as any other religion? I know that when I used to be a Christian I didn't like to think about it not being real because that thought scared me to death. This thread isn't for you. It's for that one person who might get some use out of it. That one person who might just break away from what they've been taught to believe and feel happy about it.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by Naughty B0B]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by zaiger
 


I am saying that when I criticize the ignorance of Christian beliefs I am criticizing the beliefs directly not those that hold them because most who hold them do so thanks to indoctrination.

I never said every Christian was raised to believe - but those who are raised to believe have an excuse and are not willfully ignorant.

Like I said though I want to argue against the beliefs NOT attack the people. Whatever the reason they believe its never too late to question those beliefs.

Yes I do think that even the most cliched arguments are NEW to someone out there. Like Naughty BOB said the purpose is to stimulate thought and if even one person out there hasn't questioned their beliefs along the line of reasoning his OP presents than the thread is a success.

If you'd like to continue this conversation send me a U2U, I'm done rebutting your ad hom and I'd rather not derail the thread any further.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by Naughty B0B
 


Bingo. You win.
The real un-religonized version of history is really easy to find, in these the last days, truth will emerge in the fires of testing. LoL have to use religious coined terms to communicate the truth.

The truth...the historic children of Abraham have gone many directions. The god that chose him remains the same.
....Bear in mind that these histories are from the Hebrew and christian bible.

Little known by mass media is the fact that the Hebrews were in bondage for many years and decades before the bondage in Egypt.

Mesopotamia...look it up. There the preHebrew were introduced to religions and beliefs / teachings that when many of them moved on decided to take from their former owners a part of the owner's history...

hence semitics/hebrews and judiasim is born. The god Enki/Ywhwh / Jehova.. becomes their tribal god.

How this "god" has come to be known as righteous, truth, compasionate is beyond me. Their god was/is bloodthirsty, arrogant, condescending and utterly what would be called evil.
He according to scripture commanded the genocide of several races. He commanded the decimation of children.

Did a god do this ..or did human high priests command these actions...How can an all powerful being not also be altruistic..if indeed the creation is to continue in existance?

Either the god is crazy and self gratifying or the priests steer the tribe according to their desires...in which case the god is AWOL.

Take your pick. I know this. The god of the Israelites has the personality of a badger and the fear of a goldfish.
This leads to an annihilate all possible competition mentality.

I fear no being. I fear no god/demon/devil.
I love Jesus and perfect love casts out all fear.

Coming from an EX born again christian, I suggest that you that believe in the religion without Your OWN research to just do it. What makes you special that you just have to sit back and listen to a preacher say walk forward, confess your sins and you will be saved.

Sounds like obama promises to me. And it is. Research what the churches don't want you to know...why don't they ...tithes...they want your money dummy. Just like any internet get rich guru.

Do something with your money and buy books and become responsible for your own education. Don't rely on the church or the government. This is the information age. YOU can learn anything that you choose. I chose to learn the truth of Christianity and have since disowned the religion. Why? Because it is no different than Catholicism. All based on the Hebrew "borrowed" history from Macedonia..
Realize this. The church, catholic and christian, have been leading financial supporters of archeology to prove the bible as true...anything brought to light that is contrary is deemed to be nothing more than mysticism or fantasy or worse..
The bottom line is the guys paying the bills call the shots.

I suggest the books of Laurence Gardner. He has verifiable appendices and footnotes.
You don't even need an open mind to see the truth of these works.

Break the spell use your mind like I had to do in order to be true to myself! That is the judgment of all. Have you been true to yourself.



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 03:56 AM
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Okay...let me hazard a guess at how this is going to go...

Having been on ATS for around 10 years - and a Mod here for 8...I'll gaze into my Crystal Ball of Past Experience and make this prediction:

This thread will be inundated with numerous Pro-God/Religion/Faith and Anti-God/Religion/Faith replies.

The condescending side-jabs and snarky comments like 'weakminded', 'illogical', 'irrational', 'delusional', 'brainwashed', 'religious automotons' will fly...as will the inevitable JUST as snarky side-jabs of 'unenlightened', 'ill-informed', 'Godless', 'disbelievers' etc etc etc.

A few complaints/alerts will be made.

A Mod will wade in, ping a few with Off-topic Warns. A Mod will likely post a request to keep it civil.

Civility will return...for oh...about the next three replies then the snarkiness will return and/or those engaging in same will merely move their tit-for-tat to one of the multitude of similar threads.



Eventually harsher penalties of Ill-Mannered Warns will be issued, one or two might get a temporary Postban. The whole thread may even get locked.

Chances are in the next few days someone is bound to post in the Board Business and Questions Forum something about how there is so much anti-religious threads on here...and they are packing up their bible and leaving.

More alerts, more complaints, more accusations that Mods are pro-religion or anti-religion depending on which *side* the person getting pinged sits. Completely ignoring the main precusor of perhaps it was due to them being a dick that they got pinged.


Someone will likely - sooner or later - get banned in a big drama-fest shower of sparks as they VOW to NEVER EVER EVER return to this crappy nazi-modded website EVER again...

...and they will subsequently sign back up under a different username the very next day.



OR...

...or...just maybe...oh please just maybe...we can possibly discuss the issue WITHOUT the above.

Just maybe THIS time we can speak as peers, as adults...NOT as adversaries.

We can speak to eachother with respect...NOT with ridicule.

We can invite DISCUSSION rather than simply 'dissing'...

We can allow a space for 'the other' to step into and speak their own truth, respect it for that, and respond with your own WITHOUT crapping all over theirs...



...just maybe....




[edit on 23-6-2010 by alien]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 05:04 AM
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reply to post by Naughty B0B
 


Let me ask you something. Have you ever tested it?

I mean Really tested it by actually doing all the Bible says to do and living that way and praying to God and doing what all the words of Jesus said to do? Tested it that way?

I grew up in a Baptist church and one day noticed I was being taught stuff that wasn't in the bible, and that there were stuff in the bible the people did not do.

Yes, the bible was written by Man, and inspired by God.. not everything in it is 100% correct. You really have to study the Hebrew people and their lives to know why they would write down some of the things they wrote. Very few people do this.

So I studied. I asked why the church did these things and didn't do these other things. I studied the peoples of the bible both from their biblical accounts and from historian accounts of the time.

I wanted to know which was true, which was right and which things were not right.

I came across a few verses that said to test the spirits by the spirits, and Jesus's words were spirit and they are life. The bible also tells us about the Holy Spirit, that if we obey the words of Jesus then The Holy Spirit can lead us into all truth. So I said, " O.k. God, I will do all Jesus says and see what is real or not, to see what truth was."

I prayed I fasted, I did all the words of Jesus and as I continued doing these things and reading the bible I would understand things more and more.. so much so that these things and meanings had never been taught to me in church. The Holy Spirit or "something" was showing me things no one talked about. As the Bible says, line upon line precept upon precept. I discovered the bible was written in code. ( Not the same as the bible codes you have heard about)

The key to understanding this code was doing what the bible said coupled with study and prayer and fasting. I was surely testing this thing. I came to understand that many things were written like they were because all the information is not meant for everyone to understand. This is done for a reason. This code has it's roots in ancient Hebrew. This was done to protect secrets from non believers and enemies of the Hebrew people. The Jews are still this secret to this day.. and they still use codes. Just walk into any Jewish school and ask to sit in on a lesson. You will be booted out before you can say Shalom.

It didn't matter what I choose to call God, or if I even believed everything in the bible it was the information that was important. (One is not required to first believe all the bible before one can test it. Truth of what is correct in it and what is hidden will be shows as time passes. This is a Big mistake most people make and it keeps them from experiencing what is true about the bible. ) This information taught me to do things that I was never taught to do in any other church. Mystical type things, like heal the sick or discern demons. Sure the churches talked about these things because they read about them.. but they had no real knowledge of the practical application of these 'gifts'.

When I started seeing these things happen, I knew that there was something to it. It may not all be as written, or as you read it. It may not be as most people think of it. But somewhere in this story of Jesus, there is something I know is real because I have been down a road few people dare to go and have seen things I could not have otherwise have seen. I didn't concern myself with all the questions people ask that they don't understand.. like your questions.. I simply did as the bible said and went where it led me. That's why I believe as I do.

So, let me ask you again; Have you tested it?

Perhaps there is a reason you do not understand what you read, or understand why so called Christians act or believe the way they do. (Granted most Christians in this world are not true Christians so they really don't know what they believe from a standpoint of really getting in this thing and gaining higher knowledge) That information is not meant for you right now. You don't have the code or the keys to unlock it.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by JohnPhoenix]



posted on Jun, 23 2010 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by Naughty B0B
 


you've got it all wrong, 'god' not the correct name as 'god' is one it can also be plural gods etc, we have been given free will and not a 'test' but more like a 'game' with glitches that you have to finish with 'obstacles' and 'shortcts' on the way and your life is 'predetermined vs free will' constantly and the actions you take is what you are judge on and that you have to 'work it off'



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