Why a ban on guns would never work.

Double post, apologies.

[edit on 23/6/10 by pieman]

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by MikeNice81
2007, United States Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000
All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 18
2,251

That is less than 3 out of every 100,000 kids. I don't think that hardly equates to gun owner's hating children. Your logic is so flawed it is breath taking.

Not as flawed as your maths, according to you, the figures are per 100,000. That means it's 2251 per 100,000. Where are you getting 3 in 100,000?

That is 2,251 total for the year. That equals out to less than 3 per 100,000. My cut and paste was sloppy. You can verify the numbers yourself at the CDC.

If they did most people would understand that the majority of firearm murders are comitted during the comission of a crime with an illegaly obtained firearm.

Which is exactly why I said anyone caught in possession of a gun should be charged with intent to murder. Also, it would be a hell of a lot harder to obtain a weapon illegally if weapons weren't so readily available. The illegally obtained weapon argument is stupid and circular.

There are guns and ammo built specificly for use in competition target shooting.

Not really, they are marketed for use in competition but they are designed to kill.

The illegally obtained argument is not circular. It proves that guns obtained legally are not used for murder in most cases. That means that by stripping honest people of guns you will not be adressing the problem. If you think gun control really works ask the Mexican cartells how well bans on RPGs and automatic weapons work. They'll be glad to tell you that they can still buy them from China and Russian mafia sources.

There are actually bullets designed to break apart when encountering anything harder than paper. It minimizes penetration to minimize trauma and fatality.

[edit on 23-6-2010 by MikeNice81]

reply to post by vor78


I never checked out that side of the site. It is an eye opener to see how the numbers stack up across the board. Thank you for pointing that out.

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by vor78
I've made no mention of the scenario under which a firearm might be used defensively, so for the purposes of our particular discussion, its irrelevant.

I think it's an incredibly important factor, if a gun cannot be used defensively (and I don't believe it can be) there is no lawful reason to have a gun*. Anyone found in possession of a gun should be arrested for intent to commit murder.


*There might be some discussion about hunting here but let's not bother, you don't need to hunt for food so you don't need the efficiency of a gun, if you want to hunt, you can use a bow or a spear. It takes more skill but that's kind of the point.

According to the Department of Justice in 2007 guns were used 14,727 times to prevent violent attacks against people. That is a highly conservative number that comes through using a strict reading of the statistics provided here. Plus I added in the justifiable homicides for 2007 according to the FBI/

Guns are used defensively 40.34 times per day on average. This includes pointing or firing a warning shot. Not every defensive use of a hand gun leads to death.

I wanted to add this little story so I edited the post.

A kid using a gun to defend his life and his family's lives.

Police said that shortly after midnight three men broke into a home seeking money and drugs. There were no drugs in the home, but there was a .22 cal rifle—and an 11-year-old boy trained in its use. The boy leapt to the defense of his mother and sister. One of the intruders shot the boy, slightly injuring him. The boy returned fire, seriously wounding a suspect and causing the men to flee the home. Police found all three intruders nearby. That wounded man was airlifted to a hospital and will be charged after his release. (San Antonio Express-News, San Antonio, Texas, 01/20/10)

Another story that shows guns can be used defensively. Not only that it shows in many cases they never have to be fired.


When he was awakened by his home security system, NRA Endowment member Steve Bason prepared for the worst—he got his Benelli M1 12-ga. shotgun, while his wife, Beth, an NRA Life member, grabbed her Glock 9 mm pistol. "At first we figured it was just another false alarm," Bason told the editor of the "Armed Citizen." "Then a light came on in our barn and I thought, 'My goodness, this is real!'" Police say the couple cautiously approached the barn. They peered inside and found a man standing next to Bason's truck with the door open. "There was some yelling and we probably said some words that aren't fit for print," Bason recalled. The suspect quickly found himself staring down the barrels of two different guns and waited patiently for police. (The Express, Lock Haven, PA, 02/02/10)

[edit on 23-6-2010 by MikeNice81]

reply to post by kevinunknown
you live in a fantasy world if you think the way you seem too!!!!

Originally posted by BlastedCaddy
The argument by another member on why guns should be banned was compelling. It showed the statistics of child deaths in industrialized society. We topped out the Chart with a significant amount of deaths compared to what was shown. (Using stats of another's post. I did not do the research because it really doesn't pertain) My argument to why an all out gun ban is fantastical at best is as follows. I am educated but I am not a steel lathe worker. I know how to make various types of firearms with random stuff. I even know how to make crude black powder. I did not receive any formal training on what I know how to make, other then knowing the BASIC fundamentals and mechanics of firearms and minimal research on the internet. Now that I have that knowledge i will always have that knowledge. Now enter our gunless America. It is not like the entire country does not know what a gun is or how it works. So the concept of a firearm would have to be eradicated. I say this simply because if a person like myself was to have his guns taken away and it was imposible to secure other firearms, I would make my own. Now take the person who is educated in working with metals, presses, bores and lathes. Will he not make a gun or twenty. Maybe not every machine operator but you would have some. So I suggest better gun control which is also moot in this country. So as the old saying goes.... If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns. If they make me an outlaw I will be fine.

Edited to trry to make it a little bit more troll proof

[edit on 21-6-2010 by BlastedCaddy]

[edit on 21-6-2010 by BlastedCaddy]

[edit on 21-6-2010 by BlastedCaddy]

wow.... really ......

So assume the government gets corrupt and you have no guns...

They have soldiers running around with m16's and barreta .50 cals and you have:

A makeshift gun-powder thing that you made in your garage with whatever materials you could find in the hopes that it might actually work to save your family from a threat.

the only logical reason to ban guns is to minimize violence, and even THAT argument fails because states with less gun laws have less violence.

NM, useless troll...

[edit on 30-6-2010 by BlastedCaddy]

a ban on anything does not work, if you banned alchohol, drugs, nukes, religions ect they will always be somewhere hiding away, being made in underground facility, this goes for guns (probably one of the easiest things to mass produce with the right stuff) also