Views of what an ideal society is, and how America should be run.

Since the creation of man an ideal, satisfactory society has never existed. As one can see (from recorded history) , every society that has ever existed has had at least half of it's citizens not pleased with its government or way of being run. Whether it be a tyrannt ruining the society or its lack of productivity, etc. Even America has its problems especially now more then ever, particularly due to it's ineffective government, it's technologys that are ever so quickly changing the face of humanity, and its indolence.
Some people may say that America was once the a place where bliss was pervasive, but they are ever so wrong; America has always been a place of problems just like all other nations/society's that have ever existed. The most influencial of all ancient societys, the Romans and Greeks, at their pinnacle point, were in fact much worst off than America is now. Why is that one might ask. Well it is because laws that governed these "great" societys were ineffective, and even the greatest leaders of these nations failed to achieve a state where crime and poverty are defunct. Why did these leaders and nations not achieve a ideal society where all are happy, and crime and poverty are non existant? They couldnt have because history, common knowledge, and experience have proven that most laws in practice today are ineffective, and serously need to be revised, and rewritten.
One can see that most of our laws and ways of dealing with situations
are in fact borrowed from the Greeks and Romans. Well you dont need to be a historian to know that both those society's failed and crumbled leaving its people miserable. In this day and age we have a rife of technology, power and knowledge to create an ideal society where crime is almost non-existant, people are truly happy, the government actually does its job, people are united, and most important morality reigns above all.
How can an ideal society be formed? Simple new laws, codes have to be created to fit specific needs of the 21st century. A new way of dealing with criminals has to be conjured. A more effective government has to be created, one that serves the people. New court systems, definitons and roles of the police, morals, boudary laws, foreign affairs, peoples rights under the government all have to be redefined or revised to fit the demands and needs of the people today.

So my question to ATS members is the following: If you were given the opportunity to create an ideal society, then what laws would you enact? What way of governing do you believe would create an ideal society? Please conjure up laws thay you see will fit into conventional times( laws dealing with immigration, foreign policy, crime, etc).

First of all everyone would need to own arms, not just criminals but everyone....

2nd

Originally posted by enodebllahsti
How can an ideal society be formed? Simple new laws, codes have to be created to fit specific needs of the 21st century.

Consensual Taxation:
No taxes without full consent by the individual.

If you don't support something, don't elect (for yourself) to pay for it! Currently the "elected" Congress / President are completely off the charts funding endless things that if The People had an actual choice they themselves wouldn't fund.

They often say "vote with your pocketbook". I say lets take that concept to the extreme. Imagine if on your IRS form instead of focusing on the check-boxes of 'dependents' you claim, the majority of the ordeal would be a compendium of all of the various things government does, and taxes us for. The form would be more like a book of endless list of checkboxes. In the reality of the situation, there would be so much that people would only have time to flip through trying to find things they actually support.

I argue that this alone would solve pretty much everything. In fact, it would almost negate the need for congress critters and the office of the president, especially as we know it.

More details:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 16-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by Crossfate


If everyone owned guns then you would most definitly have apoplectic people shooting at ones they are angry at, there would be immature kids grabbing a hold of guns and recking havoc amongst our streets. And you have to remember that not every one is mentally stable in this country, to tell you the truth about half of our population is not deemed fit to even be in possesion of knives let alone guns.

reply to post by enodebllahsti


Nice try. There are almost as many guns as there are people in the US, yet this doesn't happen. Your theory is 100% false!


Anyways OP, I applaud you reaching for ideas and solutions. I hope you get lots of posts. I try to constantly and it seems not too many are interested in solutions. So far I'm the only one who has flagged it..

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Yah that would be a pretty good solution to some of the nations problems, but that is not a solution that would create an ideal society because according to the strain theory, even without being forced to pay taxes their will still be poverty, crime and despair for most people but what your saying is definitly something that should be enacted by the government.(even though we both know it never will under our current government)

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Thanks it seems as if people only rant about how bad our nations government is but i seldom see any posts on ATS that truly talk about the changes we need inorder to reform and shape this nation into what the majority wants it to be.

reply to post by enodebllahsti


I respectfully disagree: The Federal Reserve has plundered the wealth of the nation for 95 years, with Inflation alone. From there the ill-used taxes and wars etc have taken all of the rest of the money from us all, and has the national debt alone at over $14B.

Criminal plundering from above leads to poverty below, which leads to despair, which leads to crime & plundering from below.

The biggest challenge is how to stop it the runaway spending, and the check box consensual taxation is basically the only real hope for a solution I've ever seen.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

To me it's really as simple as a society or community coming together and promising not to commit crime (harming one another, I don't mean parking tickets here), and working together period. Working together instead of competing. Competition at some point becomes cannibalism, just slide it down the spectrum and you get there. And before anyone gives me trouble about that, cannibalism is a legit marketing term that denotes when competition no longer is healthy, and damages all parties involved. The capitalist world is in my opinion in a state of blatant cannibalism, especially at a local level. Having more gas stations, dry cleaners, and insurance salesman in your city (than needed (edit) is an obvious example.

I love the free market but people should use their freedom to do the right thing, not just what lines their pocket. That's the beauty of freedom, it allows one to make the right choice, and given economic efficiency, the ability to.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by Novise]

I second the more guns suggestion. More guns equals less crime. Also, more victim's rights - the right to self-defense.

Less corporate welfare. No bail-outs, no subsidies. No forcing banks to lend money to people who can't pay it back.

To sum up: a society in which government is considered a necessary evil.

for my perfect-world scenario, i am going to include the whole world - meaning *GASP* that the government that i'm going to outline is a one-world government.
that's the only way my ideas would work, but since the idea is to create an ideal society, and that's it...this is my idea of ideal!

what can i say?
*shrug*
call me "antichrist" if you like although i prefer something more approachable such as Lucifer or Asmodeus...

ANYWAY, this might take several posts to fully explain, so here goes the start---->


First of all:

NO GUNS of any kind...for anyone!
no bombs no missiles no nukes no tear gas

for controlling the wild element of society still in the process of learning to self-govern, there will be things such as tranquilizer dart guns (for animals that attack, too) and tazers and mace, etc.

no deadly force is to be used upon any citizen, no matter what the situation. it will take time and a lot of thinking, and especially some trial and error, but the law itself will eventually decrease disorderly incidents as well as disorderly citizens.

violence begets violence
in order to control and prevent violence, no violence will be tolerated, not even in reaction to violence.

restraint or other non-lethal immobilization methods will be used only when absolutely necessary after all other measures available are attempted.

there will be no "police force" or "law enforcement" but there will be a Peace Corps (not to be confused with the present day Peace Corps) - half will be Peace Makers and half will be Peace Keepers.

they will all be protectors of the citizenry whose top priority will be to maintain calm and secure attitudes in all the people in times of crises and danger as well as on an everyday basis. they will know CPR and firefighting, etc., so that they can serve as EMT's and Firefighters and Rescue Workers Extraordinaire. in the event of natural disasters, they will serve as Red Cross and National Guard, etc.

training will be complete in all things required to protect and serve without causing permanent injury to any citizen under their care - even if said citizen is causing trouble and endangering self or others.



to be continued....

secondly------>

all citizens will have EQUAL access to all educational resources available, from birth until death.

there will be traditional learning facilities as well as Montessori schools and various vocational schools after the junior high age (14 or 15 years old) for all professions, taught by real-world participants in said professions.

there will be free placement assistance to help students of all ages find the best route for their talents and interests, combined.

no one will be steered away from their own goals and wishes for any reason and no goal will be out of reach for those who have their mind set to reach their goal.
if there is a passion, it will be given every opportunity to manifest and thrive.
this is the best way to increase the quality of any society - allow the individual to shine in their own unique way, doing something they believe in and have passion for.

college and other secondary education will be no different than the elementary - it will be equally available to all citizens and no one will be turned away for any reason - there will be a stratification according to one's abilities and acumen, but that is to be accepted and expected.
no one will gain an advantage because of wealth or social connections or anything - the only way to get ahead and do well will be to do a good job with a sincere attitude.
the old-fashioned way.

this leads me to the next issue which is economics, coming up later on this morning. (i have to tend to the actual world for a bit....)