Bloody Sunday report states those killed were innocent

So basically any attacks on british MILITARY over the years has just been legitimized...


The true IRA - the people who wanted an independent Ireland, free from british rule. Were never terrorists...they were/are patriots. The people who have bombed civilians and attacked family of british military are the terorists.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


This is nothing new, and as far as I was aware, common knowledge amongst those who have tried to search for the truth, free from religous or political bigotry.

No-oneis putting the blame forThe Troubles solely at the feet of The Nationalists.

I find the Johnny Adair's and Michael Stone' of this world equally odious and to blame as I do the likes of Bobby Sands and Martin McGuiness.

Which is why BOTH sides have to put aside the past and take a leap forward otherwise the whole circle of hatred is going to be repeated.

I have just watched BBC News and various other victims families,from both sides, are demanding their right to justice.

It doesn't look good for Ulster and the extremists from both sides will be circulating ready to prey on people's emotions.

I weep for Ireland at times!

Freeborn

I dont think you are being too idealistic or naive, that is what we should all be striving for, however, its been documented thet the parachute regiment, the elite regiment', known for spectacular brutality in other campaigns, were deployed to teach the people of Derry and Ireland a lesson. This remains the MO of this regiment to this day. This is British campaign protocol. Have no doubts, where they are deployed this level of brutality, inhumanity and murder will follow. There is no honour in this and other regiments in the British army. They are professional murderers.

Originally posted by Extreme Pilgrim
The soldiers on that day were guilty of feeling that they were above the law and were swept up in the camaraderie and the heat of the moment but this is not an excuse to kill unarmed civilians.

Years ago, I had read that a LT in the Paras that was there said that they opened fire because they were scared the crowd was going to get out of control and over run them.

Originally posted by BingeBob
The true IRA - the people who wanted an independent Ireland, free from british rule. Were never terrorists...they were/are patriots. The people who have bombed civilians and attacked family of british military are the terorists.

That's where the IRA lost some support in the US, at least in the neighborhood my mother grew up in. Once they attacked soft targets, people didn't want to support them anymore.

reply to post by signal2noise


It is commonly recognised that the soldiers felt threatened and panicked and opened fire.

That may be true, it may not be, it is a seperate discussion.

But one thing is certain, The British Army lied and deliberately tried to put the blame on the protesters, and that was wrong.

They then tried to cover it up in a conspiracy lasting years.

reply to post by signal2noise


The two events which really effected public opinion in the US with regards to the PIRA was the bombing of Enniskillen and 9/11.

The two events of modern history which fueled public opinion with Bloody Sunday and the internment hunger strikers.

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by Extreme Pilgrim
The soldiers on that day were guilty of feeling that they were above the law and were swept up in the camaraderie and the heat of the moment but this is not an excuse to kill unarmed civilians.

Years ago, I had read that a LT in the Paras that was there said that they opened fire because they were scared the crowd was going to get out of control and over run them.

Well, a father attempting to aid his injured son or those running away from the scene won't have caused much fear for 1 PARA. Remember, these were the days before CSI-type forensics. Once one started shooting, it soon becomes a free-for-all and an excuse to dispense their own version of retribution.

*DISCLAIMER : I was too lazy to get the dates and places for my info here*


Yeah all the sniper attacks on british troops and bombings of british police were somewhat legitimized.

I think the real turning point for the IRA to be on that terror group lis was the courthouse bombing where a miscommunication (maybe intentional, who knows) led to the wrong placement of a carbomb that killed only civilians...The bomb was supposed to be placed closed to the courthouse but was parked in the evacuation assembly area.

Originally posted by BingeBob
Yeah all the sniper attacks on british troops and bombings of british police were somewhat legitimized.

How do you work that out?

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha


Without the IRA I probably still wouldnt be allowed to vote, wouldnt be able to get a job, wouldnt be able to find a decent house, we wouldnt have the PSNI instead of the notoriously bitter police force the RUC who relentlessly abused catholics, we would not have catholics representing us in government, we wouldnt have anything that remotely resembles where we have gotten to today, which is a much fairer and safer society for all who are a part of it, we are finally represented in government.

So I thank SinnFein.

I do not support those breakaway factions who want to continue to fight. We need peace now, and today brought us further to it in my eyes.

The IRA dont make me laugh! Civilian Militias using people as shields..

try reading world history on

Gandhi

Martin Luther King

and the peaceful revolution which overthrew communism in Germany

Originally posted by BingeBob
*DISCLAIMER : I was too lazy to get the dates and places for my info here*


Yeah all the sniper attacks on british troops and bombings of british police were somewhat legitimized.

I think the real turning point for the IRA to be on that terror group lis was the courthouse bombing where a miscommunication (maybe intentional, who knows) led to the wrong placement of a carbomb that killed only civilians...The bomb was supposed to be placed closed to the courthouse but was parked in the evacuation assembly area.

are you being ironic?

because god help us if you aren't

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
reply to post by stumason

 

If the British Army left our streets, then you wouldnt have been targeted then would you? catholics did not want the British army to stay here abusing them, would have saved alot of trouble if the army went back to England earlier and left catholic neighbourhoods, if people here were given more civil rights to begin with then that would have helped do you not think?, its not as if the army were protecting the catholic community or anything, more like helping the UVF and other loyalist paramilitary groups kill catholics by giving them guns and sharing intel with them on nationalists.

The British Army never helped anyone in Northern Ireland did they?

some examples

British Army troops were also called out from Lisanelly Army Camp to bring boats into the worst hit areas.


plenty examples if you could be bothered looking for it..i suspect you wont










plenty examples of murdering cowards though


Car bomb found near primary school

Ireland and the First World War
the numbers involved

Between August 1914 and November 1918 considerably over 200,000 Irish served in armed forces engaged in the First World War

World War II

During the war an estimated 70,000 citizens of neutral Ireland

During the war an estimated 70,000 citizens of neutral Ireland served in the British armed forces, together with 50,000 or so from Northern Ireland. Virtually all who served were volunteers and, unlike the First World War, Irish volunteering during the Second World War was not primarily a process of collective mobilisation. In southern Ireland, at least, decisions to volunteer and serve were mainly individual

members of my CATHOLIC family died in these wars.

what happens to people who wish to honor them..
Enniskillen Remembrance Poppy Day Massacre




what happens to normal decent people

OMAGH




Birmingham






The Victims describe the Omagh Bomb

Kevin Skelton reflects on the massacre

All we want is that my youngsters, and everybody else's youngsters - it doesn't matter whether they're Catholic, Protestant, Hindu or whatever religion they are - that they can go to school, come home, and their fathers and mothers are there and they're not afraid that every time they walk down the street, if someone drops a bin lid, that it's a bomb.

When you close the bedroom door, you're there on your own. For people to stand up and say they set a bomb in Omagh to achieve a United Ireland - that's pathetic. It achieved nothing, it never will achieve nothing, it's achieved nothing this 30 years only caused people misery and torture. And if youngsters like mine, and hundreds maybe thousands of youngsters throughout the north of Ireland without either father - in some cases without either father or mother, but in my case they've left them without their mother. A young woman of 39 years of age that had everything to live for.

It's... I never was involved in politics of any description, and to the honest truth, I hate the politicians in the north of Ireland. There's a certain element of politicians in the north of Ireland, every time they open their big gab some family suffers.

you seem to find it a badge of honor that sinn fein have some votes..

do you know anything about the voting trends in Northern Ireland.

read about them then come back here and tell me what Catholic people really vote for in Northern Ireland if they vote at all,

never any mention about mandatory voting then eh? because the turnout is so crap..

Bloody Sunday was a tragedy. I have no doubt that most if not all of those killed were innocent, or at least did not take part in shootings/nail bombings that day. What the Paras did was wrong and should never have happened.

However I can see why it did (to an extent). The Paras were and still are trained as highly aggressive soldiers. Many of those involved in the shootings had recently returned from areas of operations that required a more 'robust' way of dealing with opposition.

On the day of the march the Paras were coming to the end of a difficult tour which had seen several seriously wounded. They had been subjected to many public order events, almost all of which had quickly turned into riots and more often than not they were fired upon. This put them into a mindset that they expected to be engaged at every march or protest. The 12 months preceeding this had seen the murder of around 60 members of the security forces, the largest number at that time. They were scared but unable to show it in front of their mates, and responded to the fear in the only way they knew how: with aggression.

This does not aim to justify or excuse the event, just gives a bit of an insight into the soldiers mentality. The shootings were the greatest recruitment drive ever for PIRA, leading to almost 150 security forces deaths the next year (almost double the amount of any year since).

Do I believe the Paras were fired on first? No. I believe that the first shot was a mistaken response to something unspecified.

Do I believe the Paras should have fired into the crowd? No, of course not. I have too many years of judgemental and Rules of Engagement training under my belt to even begin to justify the shootings.

Do I believe there were weapons in the crowd? Yes. Just because there were no cases found doesn't mean there were no shots fired (Several of the soldiers described revolvers being fired at them - a revolver keeps all of its cases inside until reloaded). I have no doubt shots were fired at the Paras, but the response was completely disproportionate to the threat.

Do I believe the shootings were unlawful? Yes, absolutely. They should never have happened, especially at a relatively peaceful march.

Just for your information, I'm a serving Brtish soldier from N. Ireland, and was a member of the UDR and the R Irish Home Service in The Province for 6 years.