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Thou shalt not make graven images

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posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


We would like to thank you for your fervancy and for your desire to look at things that you know and understand through what you see as is. However the point we were making was not whether God exists or not it was that NOTurTypical was not getting the facts straight. That is all. The complete commandments, as they are called, are in the Cathlic bibles. Which is something he neglects to source.




posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by The Riley Family
 


Thanks, appreciate the comments. I don't intend to demean or insult any individual member of any religion. Only, to inquire on some of the morales and values of some religions and debate whether people think they are acceptable or even out-of-date.

I don't think it's a problem or disrespect to doubt any religion or even any theory of God, skeptisism is not a hinderance but a virtue, likewise is curiosity.

Every opinion matters because every opinion can have an affect, for better or for worse, and it is with great importance that each of us responds and discusses politely and progressively.

Peace out, some of us may meet again



posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by The Riley Family
 


Ummmm, excuse me? I quoted the 10 Commandments directly out of your Catholic Catechism. In fact, pg. 276 to be precise.



posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by The Riley Family
 


Ummmm, excuse me? I quoted the 10 Commandments directly out of your Catholic Catechism. In fact, pg. 276 to be precise.


No problem you are excused but you are in error again. What gave you the impression we are Catholic? Especially since we don't even consider ourselves Christain, we are not affiliated with Christianity, and we don't believe in Jesus. Also thank you very much for making our point clear. You did not take it from their bible. You neglect to point out the full version is in the bible versions they use. You also neglect to point out any information about the numerical system that not only they but the Lutherans use as well.

You give the impresion that they don't acknowledge the complete version when in truth they do. What you are really pointing out is the fact that you and other judgmental people don't understand that, like we previously stated, when a Catholic reads the shorthand version, that you compared to a full version, it is undertood by them to include the graven image part becasue it is a part of it. Just like you understand the shortened version others use, as we pointed out, is to be understood by the fact that it represents the full version in the scriptures.

The Catholic church's children sure do have a hatred for their mother, boy oh boy oh boy. Take it easy on your ma folks. She taught you everything she knew. Like it says honor your father and your mother. What version, by the way, is written in their bible? Any and all versions they use. Please share.

Also, this is in their bible as well, is it not? "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." ~ Romans 10:9. So why are you judging her again?


[edit on 11-8-2010 by The Riley Family]



posted on Aug, 11 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by The Riley Family
 


Thanks, appreciate the comments. I don't intend to demean or insult any individual member of any religion. Only, to inquire on some of the morales and values of some religions and debate whether people think they are acceptable or even out-of-date.

I don't think it's a problem or disrespect to doubt any religion or even any theory of God, skeptisism is not a hinderance but a virtue, likewise is curiosity.

Every opinion matters because every opinion can have an affect, for better or for worse, and it is with great importance that each of us responds and discusses politely and progressively.

Peace out, some of us may meet again


That is great. Sounds good to us and though it may at times become rather festive we do see you come with a sincere heart and a very diverse and knowlegable base. With this in mind we must "stay on topic" and though we don't think confucious has been heard quoting this one it still may be rather rosy, "a graven image is a graven image by any other name even if it's Jesus". Whether one has a problem with images or not it seems many are not willing to look at it for what it is.

In fact it seems quite ironic that non Catholic Christians like to point out that Catholics supposedly skip on the 2 commandment. Though I have heard a number of Catholics admit that they practice idolatry they consiser that particular command to be voided by the new testament. On the other hand you have the non Catholic Christians that say they acknowledge and endorse the keeping of the second commandment but they themselves don't make graven images because it is God they are making and image of rather than making an image of a cow or a false God. Now if that aint a set up for an old time Family Feud.

By the way when we find a few minutes more we would like share a little tid bit of our understanding of the "covet" thing. Again it has been a pleasure having you on this post. You bring many good points to the table and you do so with a much more pleasant demeanor than what we are used to. Very cool.


[edit on 11-8-2010 by The Riley Family]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by The Riley Family
 


I assumed you were Catholic by how upset you got when it was pointed out the Catholics changed the 10 Commandments. Which they did despite what you claim. It's on pg. 276 of the Catechism they operate under.

And would you like to know how anyone can CLEARLY see they have disregarded that commandment?? Look at any Catholic church, they are FULL of statues/idols. As well as her daughter churches. However, oddly enough these statues/idols are absent from evangelical/Protestant churches.

Hmmm, now why might that be???


[edit on 12-8-2010 by NOTurTypical]



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Because they're backward enough to believe in the whole bible? Even the old testament in which genocide, slavery and the rape of foreigners is absolutely ok.

And happy enough to go out into the street with "God Hates Fags" signs or "Fags Die"

They're happy enough to hate abortion even if girls are raped.

They're happy enough to believe these out-dated values, and why? What is the one reason? They believe that the word of God is infact the word of God, and not the word of corrupt man that wrote the bible a few thousand years ago.

But its cool, i'll respect those types of people should i? As you seem to have a problem with me being intolerant of the intolerant. That's not hypocrasy, you wouldn't hate someone for being intolerant of Hitler or a Nazi, but then again Evangelical christians would because they hate Jews, i've got some signs if you want to see them.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Because they're backward enough to believe in the whole bible? Even the old testament in which genocide, slavery and the rape of foreigners is absolutely ok.


I believe in the entire Bible as well, but part of that is understanding that we have been under a new covenant with god for 2,000 years now. The only people on the face of the Earth that still live under the 2nd covenant and it's Laws are the Jews.


And happy enough to go out into the street with "God Hates Fags" signs or "Fags Die"


Jesus said to be watchful of "wolves in sheeps clothing." And that's precisely what those "christians" are. They say they are Christians, but their speech and behavior tells the opposite. I myself don't think Jesus was joking when He said to be watchful for the wolves.


They're happy enough to hate abortion even if girls are raped.


And? It's terrible that a woman or girl gets raped, but is that how we do justice for one travesty, to commit one greatly worse? (Murder) Rape is definitely horrible, but 2 wrongs do not make a right. That's a logical fallacy.


They're happy enough to believe these out-dated values, and why? What is the one reason?


"Out-dated values"? Like love god and love your neighbor? Wow, I didn't realize loving everyone even your enemies was such an outdated concept.



They believe that the word of God is infact the word of God, and not the word of corrupt man that wrote the bible a few thousand years ago.


It most certainly is the Word of God. It declares itself to be so, and backs that declaration up with being 2/3 prophecy. Only God could "declare the end from the beginning."


But its cool, i'll respect those types of people should i? As you seem to have a problem with me being intolerant of the intolerant. That's not hypocrasy, you wouldn't hate someone for being intolerant of Hitler or a Nazi, but then again Evangelical christians would because they hate Jews, i've got some signs if you want to see them.


I don't hate anyone. It's something entirely different to hate sin which God does too. Hate the sin, not the sinner, it's really easy to do.



posted on Aug, 12 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




"Out-dated values"? Like love god and love your neighbor? Wow, I didn't realize loving everyone even your enemies was such an outdated concept.


Wow, please do forget all the bad values though, and you said yourself YOU BELIEVE THE ENTIRE BIBLE. YOU BELIEVE THE WORD OF "GOD"

Therefore you agree that gays should be stoned and killed.

You believe that rape and genocide of foreigners is ok if God says so?

I find it absolutely hilarious and astonishing that you say you believe the whole bible on the reasoning that God MUST be correct. It's laughable.


BUT HERE'S A LIST OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN, SEEN AS YOU BELIEVE IN THE WORD OF THE "ALMIGHTY":-


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)


Ahhh what a lovely God, everyone agree? HA


"Out-dated values"? Like love god and love your neighbor? Wow, I didn't realize loving everyone even your enemies was such an outdated concept.


AGAIN, the Good things in the bible do not make up for the bad things said. I have never ever stated that i don't think love is a good thing, i have never stated that charity or peace was a bad thing.

Please do keep going though, it's interesting seeing how close-minded you are.

I might have to get a definition of close-minded before you start accusing me of being exactly that.

Is someone who opposes despicable values and morales like those in Nazism or Islam considered a bad thing? in this age of intelligence and reason? I don't think so. Again, the good values that Jesus or God states DO NOT make up for the evil things that are said.

[edit on 12/8/10 by awake_and_aware]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by The Riley Family
 


I assumed you were Catholic by how upset you got when it was pointed out the Catholics changed the 10 Commandments. Which they did despite what you claim. It's on pg. 276 of the Catechism they operate under.

And would you like to know how anyone can CLEARLY see they have disregarded that commandment?? Look at any Catholic church, they are FULL of statues/idols. As well as her daughter churches. However, oddly enough these statues/idols are absent from evangelical/Protestant churches.

Hmmm, now why might that be???

[edit on 12-8-2010 by NOTurTypical]


Well again you have not quoted their bible but then again you, like they, disregard the "Evangelical/Protestant churches" making of statutes and idols as well; and a whole slough of them at that. So what ten commandments is exactly stated in the Catholic bibles in Exodus and Deuteronomy?

However, all are without excuse regardless because as stated in a previous post the New Testament scriptures clearly point out how idols and idolatry is regarded.

Also you will find in the Catholic bibles as well as the others the below scriptures. We don't believe being a Catholic automatically predisposes one incapable of reading or understanding the scriptures.

Awake & Aware please don't take offense of our listing these next scriptures. We just felt it is relevant to the current thread and this Christian members post. Christians claim they are supposed to love their enemy but they have not only condemned Atheists to eternal suffering but each other as well. Don't figure.

Exodus 20:22 The LORD said to Moses, “This is what you shall tell the children of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. 20:23 You shall most certainly not make alongside of me gods of silver, or gods of gold for yourselves.

Leviticus 19:4 “‘Don’t turn to idols, nor make molten gods for yourselves. I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 26:1 “‘You shall make for yourselves no idols, neither shall you raise up an engraved image or a pillar, neither shall you place any figured stone in your land, to bow down to it: for I am the LORD your God.

1 Samuel 12:21 Don’t turn aside to go after vain things which can't profit nor deliver, for they are vain.

Deuteronomy 4:15 Take therefore good heed to yourselves; for you saw no manner of form on the day that the LORD spoke to you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire. 4:16 Lest you corrupt yourselves, and make yourself an engraved image in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female, 4:17 the likeness of any animal that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the sky, 4:18 the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water under the earth; 4:19 and lest you lift up your eyes to the sky, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, even all the army of the sky, you are drawn away and worship them, and serve them, which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole sky.

Exodus 4:23 Take heed to yourselves, lest you forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you an engraved image in the form of anything which the LORD your God has forbidden you. 4:24 For the LORD your God is a devouring fire, a jealous God. 4:25 When you shall father children, and children’s children, and you shall have been long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make an engraved image in the form of anything, and shall do that which is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, to provoke him to anger; 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto you go over the Jordan to possess it; you shall not prolong your days on it, but shall utterly be destroyed. 4:27 The LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and you shall be left few in number among the nations, where the LORD shall lead you away. 4:28 There you shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

Deuteronomy 27:15 ‘Cursed is the man who makes an engraved or molten image, an abomination to the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’

Psalms 96:5 For all the gods of the peoples are idols, but the LORD made the heavens.

Psalms 97:7 Let all them be shamed who serve engraved images, who boast in their idols. Worship him, all you gods!

Psalms 115:2 Why should the nations say, “Where is their God, now?” 115:3 But our God is in the heavens. He does whatever he pleases. 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. 115:5 They have mouths, but they don’t speak. They have eyes, but they don’t see. 115:6 They have ears, but they don’t hear. They have noses, but they don’t smell. 115:7 They have hands, but they don’t feel. They have feet, but they don’t walk, neither do they speak through their throat. 115:8 Those who make them will be like them; yes, everyone who trusts in them.

Psalms 135:15 The idols of the nations are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. 135:16 They have mouths, but they can’t speak. They have eyes, but they can’t see. 135:17 They have ears, but they can’t hear; neither is there any breath in their mouths. 135:18 Those who make them will be like them; yes, everyone who trusts in them.

Isaiah 2:18 The idols shall utterly pass away. 2:19 Men shall go into the caves of the rocks, and into the holes of the earth, from before the terror of the LORD, and from the glory of his majesty, when he arises to shake the earth mightily. 2:20 In that day, men shall cast away their idols of silver, and their idols of gold, which have been made for themselves to worship, to the moles and to the bats; 2:21 To go into the caverns of the rocks, and into the clefts of the ragged rocks, from before the terror of the LORD, and from the glory of his majesty, when he arises to shake the earth mightily. 2:22 Stop trusting in man, whose breath is in his nostrils; for of what account is he?

Isaiah 31:7 For in that day everyone shall cast away his idols of silver and his idols of gold—sin which your own hands have made for you.

Continued-

[edit on 13-8-2010 by The Riley Family]



posted on Aug, 13 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Isaiah 40:18 To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare to him? 40:19 A workman has cast an image, and the goldsmith overlays it with gold, and casts silver chains for it. 40:20 He who is too impoverished for such an offering chooses a tree that will not rot. He seeks a skillful workman to set up an engraved image for him that will not be moved.

Isaiah 41:23 Declare the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that you are gods. Yes, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and see it together. 41:24 Behold, you are of nothing, and your work is of nothing. He who chooses you is an abomination. 41:25 “I have raised up one from the north, and he has come; from the rising of the sun, one who calls on my name; and he shall come on rulers as on mortar, and as the potter treads clay. 41:26 Who has declared it from the beginning, that we may know? And before, that we may say, ‘He is right?’ Surely, there is no one who declares. Surely, there is no one who shows. Surely, there is no one who hears your words. 41:27 I am the first to say to Zion, ‘Behold, look at them;’ and I will give one who brings good news to Jerusalem. 41:28 When I look, there is no man; even among them there is no counselor who, when I ask of them, can answer a word. 41:29 Behold, all of them, their works are vanity and nothing. Their molten images are wind and confusion.

Isaiah 42:8 “I am the LORD. That is my name. I will not give my glory to another, nor my praise to engraved images.

Isaiah 44:9 Everyone who makes an engraved image is vain. The things that they delight in will not profit. Their own witnesses don’t see, nor know, that they may be disappointed. 44:10 Who has fashioned a god, or molds an image that is profitable for nothing? 44:11 Behold, all his fellows will be disappointed; and the workmen are mere men. Let them all be gathered together. Let them stand up. They will fear. They will be put to shame together. 44:12 The blacksmith takes an axe, works in the coals, fashions it with hammers, and works it with his strong arm. He is hungry, and his strength fails; he drinks no water, and is faint. 44:13 The carpenter stretches out a line. He marks it out with a pencil. He shapes it with planes. He marks it out with compasses, and shapes it like the figure of a man, with the beauty of a man, to reside in a house. 44:14 He cuts down cedars for himself, and takes the cypress and the oak, and strengthens for himself one among the trees of the forest. He plants a fir tree, and the rain nourishes it. 44:15 Then it will be for a man to burn; and he takes some of it, and warms himself. Yes, he burns it, and bakes bread. Yes, he makes a god, and worships it; he makes it an engraved image, and falls down to it. 44:16 He burns part of it in the fire. With part of it, he eats meat. He roasts a roast, and is satisfied. Yes, he warms himself, and says, “Aha! I am warm. I have seen the fire.” 44:17 The rest of it he makes into a god, even his engraved image. He bows down to it and worships, and prays to it, and says, “Deliver me; for you are my god!” 44:18 They don’t know, neither do they consider: for he has shut their eyes, that they can’t see; and their hearts, that they can’t understand. 44:19 No one thinks, neither is there knowledge nor understanding to say, “I have burned part of it in the fire. Yes, I have also baked bread on its coals. I have roasted meat and eaten it. Shall I make the rest of it into an abomination? Shall I bow down to a tree trunk?” 44:20 He feeds on ashes. A deceived heart has turned him aside; and he can’t deliver his soul, nor say, “Isn’t there a lie in my right hand?”

Isaiah 45:16 They will be disappointed, yes, confounded, all of them. Those who are makers of idols will go into confusion together.

Isaiah 45:20 “Assemble yourselves and come. Draw near together, you who have escaped from the nations. Those have no knowledge who carry the wood of their engraved image, and pray to a god that can’t save.

Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs of the peoples are vanity; for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it not move. 10:5 They are like a palm tree, of turned work, and don’t speak: they must be carried, because they can’t go. Don’t be afraid of them; for they can’t do evil, neither is it in them to do good.”

Jeremiah 10:8 But they are together brutish and foolish: the instruction of idols! it is but a stock. 10:9 There is silver beaten into plates, which is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the artificer and of the hands of the goldsmith; blue and purple for their clothing; they are all the work of skillful men.

Jeremiah 10:11 You shall say this to them: The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, these shall perish from the earth, and from under the heavens.

Jeremiah 10:14 Every man is become brutish and is without knowledge; every goldsmith is disappointed by his engraved image; for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. 10:15 They are vanity, a work of delusion: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.

Habakkuk 2:18 “What value does the engraved image have, that its maker has engraved it; the molten image, even the teacher of lies, that he who fashions its form trusts in it, to make mute idols? 2:19 Woe to him who says to the wood, ‘Awake!’ or to the mute stone, ‘Arise!’ Shall this teach? Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in its midst.

Jonah 2:8 Those who regard lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

[edit on 13-8-2010 by The Riley Family]



posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The Catholic bible has that commandment removed, in favor of an added one about coveting.


You have not supported your own remark. Though we have tried and tried to offer you an opportunity to present the evidence that supports your post you have not done so. There is obviously a motivation that is the driving force behind the family of Christianity's judgments toward each other; as if judging someone else will ever somehow justify oneself. The scriptures state it is the righteous that are saved it does not imply that it will be the lesser of two evils or whoever casts the greater judgment against the other that will be saved. Do Christians believe the bible is God's word? Then he says take the plank out of your own eye, then you can help your brother remove the speck in his.

Instead, like sibling rivalries, the churches condemn each other and their mother who taught them everything she knows. Why is this?



posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by The Riley Family

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
The Catholic bible has that commandment removed, in favor of an added one about coveting.


You have not supported your own remark. Though we have tried and tried to offer you an opportunity to present the evidence that supports your post you have not done so. There is obviously a motivation that is the driving force behind the family of Christianity's judgments toward each other; as if judging someone else will ever somehow justify oneself. The scriptures state it is the righteous that are saved it does not imply that it will be the lesser of two evils or whoever casts the greater judgment against the other that will be saved. Do Christians believe the bible is God's word? Then he says take the plank out of your own eye, then you can help your brother remove the speck in his.

Instead, like sibling rivalries, the churches condemn each other and their mother who taught them everything she knows. Why is this?


"I assumed you were Catholic by how upset you got when it was pointed out the Catholics changed the 10 Commandments. Which they did despite what you claim. It's on pg. 276 of the Catechism they operate under."


:bnghd:



posted on Aug, 19 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So they actually didn't remove it from their BIBLES as you claimed? So would you be so kind to enlighten us to just what is written in the Catholic BIBLES in reference to the commandments you claim they removed from their BIBLES?


[edit on 19-8-2010 by The Riley Family]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by The Riley Family
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So they actually didn't remove it from their BIBLES as you claimed? So would you be so kind to enlighten us to just what is written in the Catholic BIBLES in reference to the commandments you claim they removed from their BIBLES?


I suppose you're correct, as am I, I may have erred on it being removed from their bible. However, I'm correct that their churches are full of idols and graven images and their catechism removed the commandment on pg. 276.

I'm glad you corrected me though, because all this time I was under the impression it was also changed in their Bibles since they removed the commandment from their catechism, now that I know their teaching on the subject is NOT in their Bible, but was changed after-the-fact it disgusts me even more.

Thank you for pointing this out.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by The Riley Family
So would you be so kind to enlighten us to just what is written in the Catholic BIBLES in reference to the commandments you claim they removed from their BIBLES?

Just to clarify on this point;
Catholic Bibles contain the instruction on "do not make graven images";
But my understanding is that the Catholics divide up the commandments in a different way, making this part of the "no other gods but me" commandment.
In other words, "do not make graven images" ceases to be a "headline" commandment. It is not actually removed, but it is quietly made less visible.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by DISRAELI]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by The Riley Family
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


So they actually didn't remove it from their BIBLES as you claimed? So would you be so kind to enlighten us to just what is written in the Catholic BIBLES in reference to the commandments you claim they removed from their BIBLES?


I suppose you're correct, as am I, I may have erred on it being removed from their bible. However, I'm correct that their churches are full of idols and graven images and their catechism removed the commandment on pg. 276.

I'm glad you corrected me though, because all this time I was under the impression it was also changed in their Bibles since they removed the commandment from their catechism, now that I know their teaching on the subject is NOT in their Bible, but was changed after-the-fact it disgusts me even more.

Thank you for pointing this out.


No problem and wow! thank you for such a wonderful example of humility. We were never really upset we just wanted to make sure the facts were straight. Please forgive us if we came across a bit strong but we are glad our fervency offered the opportunity for you to look a little deeper into things. That is great. If it was removed from their bibles they would have less of an excuse then they already have. But as it stands there is no excuse because it is written in their bibles. You are right, that makes it even more disgusting.

We agree with you, and have all along, that the churches are full of idols and graven images; what the bible calls an abomination to the Lord. The bible states they would do this so it should not be a complete surprise. All those who practiced idolatry in the past thought they could justify it as well, however, the bible makes it clear that it was always eventually made more apparent that their justification was not a shield to judgment. According to the scriptures that will be the case here as well.

There is lots of information available pertaining to this but here is a couple of links that pretty much sums it up very well. We personally believe the scriptures are verification enough but we understand not every one feels that way. Especially when the church indoctrination has so much distorted the reality of things.

Wiki - Ten Commandments
especially
Wiki - Ten Commandments; Catholic and Lutheran Christianity
Wiki - Catholic doctrine regarding the Ten Commandments

This should be an example to us that we should make sure we are not doing the very same things. For it is stated "there is a way that seems right to a man but in the end leads to death" and "make sure the light that is in you isn't darkness".



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by The Riley Family
 


Don't thank me, I'm against pride and self-righteousness. That may be humble, but I'm trying to be like Christ, who was the pinnacle example of humility. I feel that a person's beliefs should be so that they can be changed at the presentation of a sound logical argument that's presented. I'm just like your signature also.. still a work in progress.





[edit on 20-8-2010 by NOTurTypical]



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by The Riley Family
So would you be so kind to enlighten us to just what is written in the Catholic BIBLES in reference to the commandments you claim they removed from their BIBLES?

Just to clarify on this point;
Catholic Bibles contain the instruction on "do not make graven images";
But my understanding is that the Catholics divide up the commandments in a different way, making this part of the "no other gods but me" commandment.
In other words, "do not make graven images" ceases to be a "headline" commandment. It is not actually removed, but it is quietly made less visible.

[edit on 20-8-2010 by DISRAELI]


Exactly. They do however acknowledge the commandment but they feel they can justify their idolatry as not being idolatry. So even though they use the commandment against others they themselves don't feel they are breaking the commandment. They feel they are not committing idolatry because they use coinage like "respectful veneration" instead and they feel their image of Christ is of the true God and not a false one. But the command is clear and it is made even more clear throughout the whole bible both OT and NT.



posted on Aug, 20 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by The Riley Family
 


Don't thank me, I'm against pride and self-righteousness. That may be humble, but I'm trying to be like Christ, who was the pinnacle example of humility.

Yes he is.


I feel that a person's beliefs should be so that they can be changed at the presentation of a sound logical argument that's presented. I'm just like your signature also.. still a work in progress.


Like he says 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good.

So with all of this in mind what is your assesment on protestantism and their doctrines? In other words they knew things weren't quite right with their church. They tried to change some of those things and were thrown out, persecuted, tortured, and even killed, this of course took place over a period of time. They were of course Catholics themselves and much blood was shed by both sides over this. The term protestants later refered to as such all those who were protesting Roman Catholic orthodoxy. The protestants obviously were not unified in their assesments of Roman Catholic "false" teachings. Each one held on to many of the things she taught them. In other words if she was willing to disregard one commandment what about the rest of her teachings?

So why did the protestants continue to use crosses in like manners even though the commands forbid those as well and is a well known pagan symbol? They also disreguarded the keeping of the sabbath which is known to be the seventh day not the 1st; which the 1st of course was the pagan holy day. The day they "worship" on today is a day starting in darkness and ending in darkness. Not like the days of the Lord that start in darkness and end in light. Also both tend to keep pagan rituals with name changes and many and most, at least in these parts, keep Valentines day with even that little Cupid character known to be a greek God. They also keep Holloween which is ridiculously obvious in and of itself. So we were curious since you stated that "these statues/idols are absent from evangelical/Protestant churches". Doesn't it actually appear that Protestantism is just a division of Catholicism as Christianity appears to be many divisions of herself?

Each group pointng the finger at each other but justifying themselves in like manner.

So what are your thoughts on this?

[edit on 21-8-2010 by The Riley Family]



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