A world without money....how?

Some say that the money system doesn't work and that we as a society can achieve anything we want but are bound by the money sysytem.

Well, that is easy to say and maybe true but how would a world without a money system work?

I have no idea and would like someone to explain an alternative for how busines can be run without money.

In the Sci-fi series Star-Trek there is a world without money but never does the serie explain how it is done.

I think there will always be people who want to have more 'credit' than the next person. Must the concience of humanity change before a world without money is possible?

Trading produce or stuff is the same as giving money for something you want so that is not the answer.

Anybody?

The only way I can feasibly see these situations without money happening is if everybody lives in their own little communities. They don't have to be very small, but there should only be as many people in the community as the land can support. Assuming everyone does their own part in order to help farm the land to grow food, build houses etc.

Any excess could be given away to other communities so as not to create any waste.

Think how the native americans did it before the Europeans came.

I still see ways in this could fail though, given our huge entanglement with technology.

the only thing is going back to barter and trade
"how much for the women?" john belushi in blues brothers

If I could do my 4-5 hours of work a day and then have everything I "need' (need is different from, i want) then I'd be happy.

Given there would still be libraries and universities where you could use your excess time on studying and finding out how to improve society.

So perhaps the people who are brilliant with electronics can still engineer all these gadgets we love so much

reply to post by LOLZebra


that is just it "needs" and "wants"....if we would have listen to the american indians "take only what you need and leave the land as you found it" we wouldnt be in the trouble we are today.

Well, I guess a miracle really.

I think it would have to be a revelation of sorts, enlightenment. If humanity were to be awakened as to why we are here, where we are going, I think this would lead to a goal for humanity to strive for, money would begin to become less of an issue. We would all have (or remember) that we a role to play in achieving said goal.

The problem I quess is who sets the goal?

Empathy relearned would help a lot too.

Quick ideas... Made me think!

Peace

Technology came into existence to help us the human race with minial tasks and to help make tasks faster done and more efficient. It was just idle boredom that lead to game systems, computer systems for every household, email, texting, ipods, etc...those are things that are there just to fill the void of boredom created by getting tasks done quicker. But, here's a novel idea, why not spend that time left on the nuclear family where you actually talk instead of play the wii together or play a board game instead of sitting at the computer chatting with other people you don't even know? Ok, I love my computer just as much as the next guy or gal, but it can be utilized for other things, did you know when I was in school they said that one day in the future all students would be attending virtual school. Think of how much better it would be if our kids ateended virtual school? huh. You know they wouldn't have to worry about their appearance for social acceptance, the government wouldn't have to provide their lunches, etc. Now don't get me wrong they'd need to have social activities, sports and clubs they could sign up for during "Virtual" School but they'd be like formed in hubs, so like say my three different schools here in the area would all be participants in the same football team, chess club instead of three different teams, it would be school level based, for instance k-5, 6-8, and 9-12. Just a thought. As far as phones, mp3 players, and that, they can be utilized still and even upgraded. People would trade, barter whatever they have for the better models. But, personally I think we should just work with tech that has a very applied task like computers, everything else should be downsized. Entertainment is a luxury, and we spend way too much time centered on those luxuries IMO. Of course you can see I am not a big gamer, and give me a woodstock type music concert over an MP3 any day of the week. I would be happy.


And I must add if people spent more time on their children and with their children, depopulation would automatically happen, after spending so much time with the little nippers, people wouldn't be so gung ho about having five six seven children. Sorry catholics, but even you would stop at two or less, if you were actually spending more time with them!!!

[edit on 12-6-2010 by ldyserenity]

I remember various references on Star Trek that seemed to suggest that they had somehow gone beyond money. However, the issue wasn't entirely put to rest. The series also introduced the "Ferengi" (hope that's spelled right). These aliens with big ugly heads and ears, and pointy teeth, were often looked down upon for being so greedy. They apparently held "profit" up as a high ideal in their culture. SO, the money issue never really went away.

If you replace the term "money", with "goods and services" (which is what you buy with money), then we immediately start to imagine "barter". No one would say that would be an improvement of course. But to replace the term with "credit" is no improvement either, it still implies measurable "value" apart from the good and services (which for all intents and purposes could be "coney" again).

I personally think that "money" will remain with us in some shape or form, mainly because it's a reflection of a prime economic necessity. It has appeared around the globe, over the many thousands of years, whether sea shells, or gold coins, money seems to be the most practical solution to the question of how one can "translate" one's work or goods, into convenient commerce.

Money may become (more) electronic, more control may be ceded to banks and governments, other economic systems (like communism) may come and go, but I think we may be stuck with it.

JR

I just thought I should add the first step in breaking from a monetary system is to get over the whole land ownership issue. That is the first trap. All land is our land, our human right, and the animals rights as well. Everyone had enough land left for them could grow their own crops and raise their own animals for food, so another inherent right food. If everyone did this had been given thier own land and had to raise their own food, there would be no need for money to buy land or food, even if they ran their own electric through wind, solar, and hydroelectric systems, there would be no need to pay for utilities. That would piss off the bankers, real estate moguls and the utility companies, but oh well, becoming dependant on them keeps us in this house of cards. And yes there is plenty of land to divvy up between families on this soil right now, of course it may become necessary for more extended family living situations, but that is what we should do, have our elderly family with us to care for, as well as siblings, nieces, nephews, etc. because that would keep the land and utilities operations afloat. And if the children would be in Virtual school, they could be assisting with these things as well. However this would have to be accepted worldwide for it to work. And that is going to take a lot of effort. Also, those that may say: But it's a lot of work doing all those things to be self reliant, well to those I say, put up or shut up, provide your own or perish. That's how it used to be, you did it or you starved or you found a skill and used that to get what you need, there will certainly be no more drains on society, as there were no such drains on society before money came to be, you either did or died. That's the true way of this world keeping balance. We are so out of balance right now, it isn't even funny.

And don't use the disabled unable to work crap here, that never happened before money you think? Well it did, and the FAMILY took care of them, they didn't expect the government or taxes to take care of them. The only thing I have seen come out of money is a way for use to devolve, become less humanitarian. That's what I see. People have become so lazy and self absorbed and so uncaring and it all boils down to money and technology.

[edit on 12-6-2010 by ldyserenity]

accutly I read a very good book dealing with the money thing .
In that book the mechanization of products became so great that out side humans were no loner needed to run the factory thus the stuff that was made got cheaper and cheaper until finely all the basic nesistys of life were free .
people went back to schools even in there 50ds and worked only to get the other fancy things they desired .
so out of every thing i ever read that is the closet I ever seen to a moneyless world but we came close to this as the plastic junk made in china shows.
problem is its useless plastic junk which helps no one in anyway.
moneyless world? maybe the Aztecs came close as well?

I agree with the person who said it could only happen if we lived in small autonomous communities.

But any community that grows large enough pretty much forces you to have a system for deciding on what's mine and what's yours, which leads naturally to a barter system.

A barter system leads naturally to money. I'll try to illustrate how with an example. If I make chairs, and you make wagons, and I need a wagon but you don't need a chair, what do I do? Well, I find something you want. Maybe you want shoes. I find a shoe-maker who wants my chair, I get the shoes from him and then trade them to you.

What you'll find happening eventually is that certain goods are more marketable (meaning more people want them at any given time) than others. So it becomes a good strategy to get your hands on these more marketable goods, so you'll have a better chance of having something to offer someone who makes something you want.

Over time, some of these things become even more marketable by the very fact that people are doing this. Eventually a de facto standard develops where everyone is trading everything indirectly through these most-marketable commodities, which are now given the name "money".

By the way, that's another lie the Fed has us duped on that maintains their power: that money is an invention of the state. It's not. Money is a natural phenomenon. However, there are certain obvious reasons why control of the money supply makes one obscenely powerful. Hence the Fed and legal tender laws.

But if you look at history, and all the various things that have been used as currency, as well as some modern phenomena like how various relief supplies are traded as money in some of the more anarchic small villages in Iraq, it becomes obvious that money as a concept is quite independent of the state.


[edit on 12-6-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

reply to post by zatara


I would indeed think that mankind have to change mentality for this to become true. Also I would think that we first have to become ONE world; ONE focussed on our collective power rather than regional sub powers. If we are to explore space effectively, for instance, than we will only become successful if we combine our world forces, knowledge, resources.

From being a baby we need to be educated in a totally different way than in the way we have been now. Each individual will need to be taught that she/he is part of mankind, and need to contribute to it in one way or the other.

Whilst doing so, everyone in the world will get access to the fruits from that work in an equal manner. Looks partly like communism, but at a muuuuch higher spiritual level, and originating with a total different mindset.

Of course there will be leaders that are replaced after terms, but they will like all others have not more power, as the Earth-Confederation.

That is what I foresee happening in the future. We will live in harmony with nature and are much more relaxed and happy, as we don't need to keep the shareholders happy, to allow them to buy a bigger boat, or to ruin our children's children's future, to live in good health on this planet....

How it will merge into this "paradise" I am afraid it will have to go through disasters, as we are now our way in going there....

reply to post by NewlyAwakened


If one thinks that barter systems could resolve this, if it is done in micro-communities, I would say that this still would be the wrong starting point.
We are to drop our thinking of trading, bartering or selling completely.

We will be contributing, producing, servicing and sharing and will be most happy in doing so. To do our very best to bring mankind collectively at the next higher level. Please see my other post just above here, on this subject.

reply to post by GeosAlien


I wholly agree with your idea, it's what I tried to state but in a different way, after all I didn't wanna be called socialist or communistic, but what you were conveying is what I was trying to get at.

reply to post by GeosAlien


Your look on the problem is the most promising, I guess. People who say we should abandon technology and go back to the basics are wrong on this matter. Why throw away something that is interesting to many people and that can contribute to a better world?

The fact that humans have different interests is maybe the key to a moneyless society. There are people that wish to be a farmer and others want to be a rocket scientist....If they have the capacity to fullfill that wish they should be able to contribute to society in that proffession. But there is still the problem with jobs nobody wants to do......maybe it should be conscription of labour for evrybody to do these 'dirty' jobs.

Compassion, Empathy,
That is how.

A world without money? Simple. Another year of stimulus packages and no-one and no Government will have a nickel or dime left to their name and we can all sit down and starve together.

Originally posted by airvicemarshal
A world without money? Simple. Another year of stimulus packages and no-one and no Government will have a nickel or dime left to their name and we can all sit down and starve together.

sweet.
Lookin forward to starvin with you, bro.

It's called living in a resource-based economy, and will happen once humanity transcends the desire to accumulate and hoard material possessions.

In this case, most everything would stay the same. The reason people accumulate so much unneeded junk is because they live from a false perspective of scarcity. There is only scarcity because people are finding the need to accumulate and hoard. Yep, it's that insane, the system we've got.

A lot of humanities pathologies are a direct result of the creation of money, and the pyramid scheme the elite have created. Without a system of currency, the ability to manipulate goods and services to benefit the few at the detriment of the majority would cease to be an option.

It's not a problem of scarcity, or a problem of being impossible. It's a problem of being oppressed by a select few families, and the unwillingness of the people to think more "big-picture" oriented.

We'll get there one day.

First step:

Off with their heads !!

[edit on 12-6-2010 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by zatara
how would a world without a money system work?

there is always the venus project / zeitgeist movement
which is based on a resource based economy

they have some great ideas, although some people love em some hate em.

they seem to have a hard time getting support, as there are a lot of people with pessimistic view on it, mostly because they cant fathom a system different to what has been around for so long.

that said, they dont have an answer for every problem, but since this is still a concept, im sure more deep thought and research by more scientists will fill in the gaps.

i personally am on the fence with the zeitgeist movement, i like what they foresee, but have issues with the way they present it. The first video they released has a large section at the beginning trying to debunk religion, although im an atheist, i felt that it was a huge mistake on their part and they may have lost a lot of people that would ordinarily support a project such as this. I feel that every person has the right to whatever faith they want to believe in, so that original zeitgeist video screwed it up for them imho.

heres a link not to zeitgeist, but to a great presentation that should be watched instead i feel.
First part talks about the problems. second part talks about the solutions.

enjoy.