A world without money....how?

Money is a replacement for real human connection. Since there isn't any true connection between ourselves and our neighbors, we need money in the mean time. It is rather primitive when you think about it.

This may sound ludicrous to many of you, but just swap the money for favors.

Well how would we make a living? you would just do what you want to to help the world for free or for a favor.
You enforce favors through documentation, like money.
Then how will I get food or technology? Well that's just the problem, too much needs to be done to take care of everyone, so people "have" to do things they don't want to, in order to to sustain a society. OR - somehow give someone incentive to work doing things others don't. Essentially no one wants to work for nothing, even if they enjoy their job. So you have to give them something regardless if they do the work or not. You also have to create some form of responsibility still. So If people don't help out, what are the negative effects? If the negative effects happen, how do you fix it. If You don't, the society will basically crash into the ground. The incentive would have to be the true incentive: because it is the right thing to do, or no sustainment, which is why what I'm saying is Ideal and not realistic.

It goes like this.
You need something to be done or you want something to be done. Say you want a new car or you want a waste management service for your house. Well you would have all these organizations sustained by "favors"

If you wanted more of anything - just influence those who specialize in that area with something you specialize in. If your organization loves basket weaving, someone might want some baskets, so you trade them for something or things the organization can use, say for grapefruits for example, and then the organization can take some of the grapefruits and trade those with a different organizatoin for something else. Get real complex and you are trading everything for anything, from electricity to art. It would be a very intricate web of connecting the dots of wants and needs. All you would need is an extremely capable processor to compute the conncetions and automatically transfer the wants to another, as long as the database contains all or many possibilities.

You still need laws to regulate behavior, and any behavior that cheats or negatively affects the trades of a business.


What about greedy people? won't they just take everything for themselves? maybe. Greed takes away, where it could help out. You can't eliminate greed, its a trait of someones desires. But you can influence desires, more less change them.

It is impossible to have a prosperous society unless you have major incentives to help out that create responsibility, or have everyone on the same page of helping each other out. (more robots would help out a lot)

[edit on 12-6-2010 by juveous]

reply to post by juveous

t is impossible to have a prosperous society unless you have major incentives to help out that create responsibility, or have everyone on the same page of helping each other out. (more robots would help out a lot)

I am afraid you still are living with your mind in the current world system.
That will have to be broken down, and in my humble opinion, it will pretty soon.

We have to turn to a society where we all are equal and where we become proud in doing things for the good of mankind on this planet.
As I said before, it requires a shift in mentality of mankind, where we are proud of contributing, producing, servicing, and sharing, to advance mankind as a whole on earth (global village). Bundling our forces for the greater.

You should re-read some of the post in this thread, as there are quite some valuable ones, I suggest. See also the one of Zatara....



[edit on 13-6-2010 by GeosAlien]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by GeosAlien]

[edit on 13-6-2010 by GeosAlien]

How about time banks?

Make an hour of work worth an equal amount of goods regardless of the type of work.

Originally posted by crash override

"how much for the women?"

Women should be traded on the stock market.

The value of a woman goes up, the value of a woman goes down.

Pray for volitility in the market where the value of the woman goes up and down quickly

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by GeosAlien

 

Your look on the problem is the most promising, I guess. People who say we should abandon technology and go back to the basics are wrong on this matter. Why throw away something that is interesting to many people and that can contribute to a better world?

The fact that humans have different interests is maybe the key to a moneyless society. There are people that wish to be a farmer and others want to be a rocket scientist....If they have the capacity to fullfill that wish they should be able to contribute to society in that proffession. But there is still the problem with jobs nobody wants to do......maybe it should be conscription of labour for evrybody to do these 'dirty' jobs.

Yes, there is no need to abandon technology advancement. If we don't need to keep shareholders happy, than any source (of energy) becomes viable. The most important value that we all will be respecting is nature, mother Earth.

Jobs that nobody like to do, we will find a solution. It doesn't means that we all do jobs a life time ! We will go through phases and some duties are in a rotary scheme.

Personally, I believe we aren't that far away from this new society. We first have to go through hell in our current system, in which it is proven to all of us , that it isn't sustainable.

And of course we need the wise amongst us to stand-up, putting the greedy out of power. No money, no individual property, no individual power.

We all will be living in plentiness, and happiness, many things we wouldn't care to have, as we will find happiness, peace, and love and affection, the biggest value in our lives. In harmony with nature.

Originally posted by TheEccentrist
How about time banks?

Make an hour of work worth an equal amount of goods regardless of the type of work.

It is exactly the same as I noticed before.

You have to drop the trading, bartering, selling idea. We will have to start from scratch, where mankind find other values than looking for personal ones.

If there is no money there are no shareholders. We live a much less stressful life, and be much more happy to contribute to mankind, our society, and share your efforts with the world, and share your needs from the efforts of the world.

The world has become a village, and now totally depend on each other.
If you don't come together now, we will be killing each other and that we be the end of mankind, and with what is left over finally, they, having learned the lessons, will go for this new world system. I have no doubt.

Originally posted by Freedom or Death

Originally posted by crash override

"how much for the women?"

Women should be traded on the stock market.

The value of a woman goes up, the value of a woman goes down.

Pray for volitility in the market where the value of the woman goes up and down quickly

[edit on 13-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

If you have nothing to contribute to this thread, just bugger off, silly idiot !!

reply to post by GeosAlien


lighten up!! it isnt like this is going to happen.

remember "dont take life to seriously....you might not get out alive"

MONEY OUT OF NOTHING
By David Icke
Edited and supplemented by 'here and now'

Today the initiates and frontmen for the "Babylonian Brotherhood" control world politics, banking, business, intelligence agencies, police, the military, education and the media. The most important of these, in terms of control, is banking. The creation and manipulation of money. The Brotherhood financial sting is very simple and spans the period we are documenting from the time of Sumer and Babylon to the present day. It is based on creating money that doesn't exist and lending it to people and businesses in return for interest.

This is how "they" control governments, businesses and the general population, by creating enormous debt.

Vital to this has been to allow bankers to lend money they do not have. It works like this. If you or me have a million pounds, we can lend a million pounds. Very simple. But if a bank has a million pounds it can lend ten times that and more, and charge interest on it.

If even a fraction of the people who theoretically have 'money' deposited in the banks went today to remove it, the banks would slam the doors in half an hour because they do not have it. Money in the bank is a myth, another confidence trick.

If you go into a bank and ask for a loan, the bank does not print a single new note nor mint a single new coin. It merely types the amount of the loan into your account. From that moment you are paying interest to the bank on what is no more than figures typed on a screen. However, if you fail to pay back that non-existent loan, "they" using "they're" own made-up laws - which are illegal, according to God - will come along and take your wealth that does exist, your home, land, car, and possessions, to the estimated value of whatever figure was typed onto that screen.

More than that, because money is not brought into circulation by governments, but by private banks making loans to customers, the banks control how much money is in circulation. The more loans they choose to make, the more money is in circulation. What is the difference between an economic boom (prosperity) and an economic depression (poverty)? One thing only: the amount of money in circulation. That's all. And, through this system, the private banks, controlled by the same people, decide how much money will be in circulation. They can create booms and busts at will.

The same with the stock-markets where these guys are moving trillions of dollars a day around the financial and banking markets, so deciding if they go up or down, soar or crash. Stock-market crashes don't just happen, they are made to happen.

Most of the 'money' in circulation is not physical money, cash and coins. It is represented as figures passing from one computer account to another electronically via money transfers, credit-cards and cheque books. The more money, electronic or otherwise, that is in circulation, the more economic activity can take place and therefore the more products are bought and sold, the more income people have, and the more jobs are available. But a constant theme of the Hidden Hands' financial coup has been to create a boom by making lots of loans and then pull the plug.

Overpaid economists and economic correspondents, most of whom have no idea what is going on, will tell you that boom and bust is part of some natural 'economic cycle'. What claptrap. It is systematic manipulation by the Brotherhood to steal the real wealth of the world.

During a boom many people get themselves into even more debt. The vibrant economic activity means that businesses borrow more for new technology to increase production to meet demand. People borrow more to buy a bigger house and a new, more expensive car, because they are so confident about their economic future. Then, at the most opportune moment, the major bankers, coordinated by the secret society networks, raise interest rates to suppress the demand for loans and they begin to call in loans already outstanding. They ensure they make far fewer loans than before. This has the affect of taking units of exchange (money in its various forms) out of circulation. This suppresses demand for products and leads to fewer jobs because there is not enough money in circulation to generate the necessary economic activity. So people and businesses can no longer earn enough to repay their loans and they go bankrupt. The banks then take over their real wealth, their business, home, land, car and possessions in return for non-repayment of a loan that was never more than figures typed on a screen. This has been going on in cycles over thousands of years, especially the last few centuries, and the real wealth of the world has been sucked out of the population and into the hands of those who control the banking system - the Conspirators' Hierarchy.

The same applies to countries. Instead of creating their own interest-free money, governments borrow it from the private banking cartel and pay back both the interest and the capital by taxation of the people.

Fantastic amounts of the money you pay in taxes go straight to the private banks to pay back loans which the governments could create themselves interest-free!!

Why don't they do it? Because the Brotherhood controls the governments as much as they control the banks.

What we call 'privatisation' is the selling-off of state assets to stave off bankruptcy caused by the bank-created debt. Third World countries are handing over control of their land and resources to the international bankers because they cannot pay back the vast loans made, on purpose, by the banks to ensnare them in this very situation. The world does not have to be in poverty and conflict, it is manipulated to be that way because it serves the Agenda.

The Knights Templar used the system I've just described when they created the foundations of the modern banking network back in the 12th and 13th centuries and this clearly connected with the Venetian network of the Black Nobility operating at the same time. The world financial manipulation is today coordinated by 'central banks' in each country which appear to be working independently, but are in fact working together to a common end. The Bank of England, chartered by the Black Nobility's William of Orange, has been the spider at the centre of this web and so, too, since the 1930s, has the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland. Akin to the Bank of England, the central banks were chartered by the descendants of the banking families of Genoa and Venice.

Another of their cycles is to encourage people to invest in the stock-market until the quoted companies are massively overvalued. The Brotherhood then crash the markets (having sold their stocks just before) and while most people lose their money, the Brotherhood buy up vast amounts of stock at bargain prices. The stock-market goes up, so does the value of the newly acquired companies, and the Brotherhood wealth and control takes another leap forward.

These evil people see creating wars as a wonderful way to make vast fortunes and destroy the status quo.

"They" lend money to both sides to fund the war and then "they" lend them even more to rebuild their devastated countries.

Countries get in debt (control) to "they" and "they" increase "their" wealth (power). Such control and power allows "they" to build a new society in the image of "their" agenda, when the war "they" have created and funded has destroyed the old structure. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion were discovered in the last century and tell in incredible detail the events and methods of manipulation we have seen manifest in the 20th century. So much disinformation and aggression has been hurled at the Protocols and anyone who has mentioned them - including me - because the Brotherhood are desperate to discredit their contents. It is far too close to home. Hitler used the Protocols in part to justify the oppression of Jews, but he was given the Protocols by a Rothschild agent of Khazar decent called Alfred Rosenberg.

The Rothschild's became one of the pivotal families in the Brotherhood's financial and political Agenda and they went on to direct events throughout Europe before expanding into the Americas, South Africa and eventually the world. They had the crown heads of Europe in debt to them and this included the Black Nobility reptilian dynasty, the Habsburgs, who ruled the [un-]holy Roman Empire for 600 years.

The Rothschilds also took control of the Bank of England. If there was a war, the Rothschilds were behind the scenes, creating the conflict and funding both sides. The Rothschild leaders are not Jewish, they are Khazarian who have sent countless Jews to their deaths to further their sickening ambitions.

Another of the Brotherhood's most important coups was the creation in 1913 of the Federal Reserve, the so-called 'central bank' of the United States. It is neither federal nor has any reserve. It is a cartel of private banks owned by the 20 founding families, mostly European, which today decides the interest rates for the United States and lends non-existent money (figures on a screen) to the US Government on which the taxpayers have to pay interest.

What we call the 'American Deficit' - is nothing more than fresh air.

The Federal Government of the United States does not own a single share in the Federal Reserve and American citizens cannot purchase them. Profits exceed $150 billion a year and the Federal Reserve has not once in all its history published audited accounts. This income is assured because:

1. The Brotherhood control the US Government (the Virginia Company under another name) which continues to borrow 'money' from the 'Fed';

2. They also control the privately-owned Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the illegal terrorist organisation which collects the taxation from the people;

and

3. it controls the media to ensure that people never find out about 1 and 2.

The Brotherhood had long desired a privately-owned 'central bank' in America to complete their control of the economy. When the leading Freemason, George Washington, became the first president he appointed a Brotherhood yes-man called Alexander Hamilton as his Secretary of the Treasury. Hamilton introduced the Bank of the United States, a privately owned central bank which began to lend money to the new US Government so creating control by debt from the very start. Look at what happened when the Black Nobility introduced the Bank of England, and the scenario is exactly the same. The Bank of the United States caused so much poverty, bankruptcy and rebellion, that it was eventually closed down, but soon after that came its replacement, the Federal Reserve.

www.freedomfiles.org...

www.google.ca...

______________

We can not afford, pardon the pun, to live in cities any more. Agriculture needs to be reborn, and consumerist wastrel lifestyles need to be abolished. Time to reconsider our lives.

reply to post by Sianara


Well Sianara, star and flag for you finding the presentation of Zeitgeist. Not being aware of this movement, reading my posts on this thread, you can see that I am thinking totally along the same lines.

I am going to study it further on their site, and am pretty sure I will join them in spreading the word around for people to open their eyes.

Again, thanks a lot for your contribution !!!

And thank you, Zatara for starting this thread, as it brought me this link.

Originally posted by GeosAlien
reply to post by juveous

 

t is impossible to have a prosperous society unless you have major incentives to help out that create responsibility, or have everyone on the same page of helping each other out. (more robots would help out a lot)

I am afraid you still are living with your mind in the current world system.
That will have to be broken down, and in my humble opinion, it will pretty soon.

We have to turn to a society where we all are equal and where we become proud in doing things for the good of mankind on this planet.
As I said before, it requires a shift in mentality of mankind, where we are proud of contributing, producing, servicing, and sharing, to advance mankind as a whole on earth (global village). Bundling our forces for the greater.

You should re-read some of the post in this thread, as there are quite some valuable ones, I suggest. See also the one of Zatara....

Its just very Ideal thinking. What you say is no different than saying - "the world would be better if everyone just got along and helped each other out" This is obvious.

My thread has just been hi-jacked...

reply to post by zatara



It is easy to do this the way star trek did. This can work in any business or military. Also it can work for people who invent things that can help out society. Just use a ranking type system. The lower ranks get the minimal requirements and as you get a promotion of any sorts your stand stuff gets improved. If you invent a thing that can help out society, then you get rewards for better stuff.

In star trek online game, when you get promoted you get a better ship and more crew added. Civilians who don't want to do a thing will just get standard living equipment until they decide to help out.

Originally posted by zatara
Trading produce or stuff is the same as giving money for something you want so that is not the answer.

Anybody?

I guess I should have quoted this in my first response.

What is wrong with trading?

Why not just say, "eliminate all wants and desires". You can have honest trade. Which is much more "connected" than an exchanging money. This isn't like when we were hunter gatherers, and we can just get food, mate and look for more food, Everyone playing their part. No one back then could afford to be greedy because it risked the entire group dying.

But the second you are capable of producing more than the group needs, greed arises. And greed is what gets people killed, greed for land, greed for food, greed for more greed. So what is the problem here? Eliminate money? That is like saying, eliminate guns so they don't kill anyone.

So you can say "all we need is a massive change in perspective" or for everyone to wake up. And I say, yes that is an obvious answer.

but instead of wishing for some event, the most anyone can do is expose the affects of greed and attempt to slowly get rid of it. I would say the world is increasingly less greedy than it was a thousand years ago, but at the same time, we have more money and resources, so more opportunity for greed.

But a society takes much more than money or trades, but organization. So the question always arises,who does the organizing and what power do they have?

reply to post by GeosAlien

Originally posted by GeosAlien
reply to post by NewlyAwakened

 

If one thinks that barter systems could resolve this, if it is done in micro-communities, I would say that this still would be the wrong starting point.
We are to drop our thinking of trading, bartering or selling completely.

We will be contributing, producing, servicing and sharing and will be most happy in doing so. To do our very best to bring mankind collectively at the next higher level. Please see my other post just above here, on this subject.

I think that would be a great society, but I also think it would require fundamentally changing human nature. Perhaps some divine 2012 event will do this.

Otherwise, let's face it, humans are pack animals designed by evolution to be led by a dominant male who defeats his rivals in a struggle and remains in his position through intimidation, and from this stems all sorts of aggressiveness in the form of the human emotions of jealousy, envy, greed, and all the vices that over time aggregate to destroy civilization.

Many people don't care about contributing to the group. They are looking for glory and recognition in some form or another. They are interested in power rather than love (it was the eccentric psychologist Carl Jung who said something like "With love there is no will to power, and where the will to power previals love is lacking. The one is a shadow of the other").

In many people the will to power predominates. Only the recognition, that civil behavior is better for them than chaos, brings order to their strivings, but they won't give unless they think they're getting a fair deal.

This is the gist of the great essay Jesus is an anarchist (I am agnostic). According to the Bible (Revelation) Jesus is going to come and wipe sin from the earth, and then there will be no more need for government because the whole point of government is to keep evil in check, evil that no longer exists. Thus, benign anarchy. But as long evil (the will to power) exists, we're stuck in this mess of suffering.

Basically I think your proposal is impossible with human nature the way it is currently, and no I don't think "re-education" will change the fundamentals. We're stuck the way we are without some sort of major shift that changes who we are fundamentally.

Otherwise, we're just animals: www.fredoneverything.net... (another great essay)


[edit on 14-6-2010 by NewlyAwakened]

reply to post by juveous


The thing with trading is that some stuff will have a high trading value and then the next step is to back this item by a coin. Some people will have a lot of stuff to trade and some people will have nothing to trade. Rich and poor...there will always be people with more stuff than the next person but the goal is to eliminate poverty and abuse.

The best idea to create a world without money is to make use of the personal interest and capabillities of a person and let him or her contribute to society with the productivity they make in that proffession. A doctor will receive the same rewards as a farmer as a carpenter as a government official. The most important thing is that they do something they like. Conscription of labour is the answer for the jobs that nobody wants, jobs like picking up the trash.....

Of course will be trading stuff not against the law but I think it will not work if the entire economy will depend on trade. That is how we started before money excisted and the logical next step will be the invention of money. So, everything will repeat again and in the end we will end with the same situation we are in now.

Originally posted by zatara
reply to post by juveous

 

The thing with trading is that some stuff will have a high trading value and then the next step is to back this item by a coin. Some people will have a lot of stuff to trade and some people will have nothing to trade. Rich and poor...there will always be people with more stuff than the next person but the goal is to eliminate poverty and abuse.

The best idea to create a world without money is to make use of the personal interest and capabillities of a person and let him or her contribute to society with the productivity they make in that proffession. A doctor will receive the same rewards as a farmer as a carpenter as a government official. The most important thing is that they do something they like. Conscription of labour is the answer for the jobs that nobody wants, jobs like picking up the trash.....

Of course will be trading stuff not against the law but I think it will not work if the entire economy will depend on trade. That is how we started before money excisted and the logical next step will be the invention of money. So, everything will repeat again and in the end we will end with the same situation we are in now.

Touché, so I agree with your last post.

But the conscription of labour would do so for unwanted job, what about the highly incapable jobs? - Assuming the world actually changes its ways and allows for all higher education to be free - with the professors getting paid the same as the chef at Olive Garden or your mechanic - What about those jobs for the qualified intellects in Rocket Surgery?

I am not saying they "require" more than anyone else, but lets think about the necessity and scarcity. Well the scarcity we can do away with because that is mostly due from the lack of funds to actually go through schooling - but the necessity - is there such a thing as some jobs being more important than others on the scale of humanitarianism?

I have just read every thread on here and I watched the videos. I also enjoyed reading the Mr Icke text. I then read about the Rothschilds on the net.

I am such a pro-active person. It's incomprehensible to me how so many people are unaware of this. I find it furtherly incomprehensible how so many well-intended individuals such as yourselves can write about it - but do nothing.

So, come on. With me, what do we do? How do we go about creating a world with no money so that we all live in peace with no world orders and secret societies controlling our media?

Do we send such stories to the papers and pester them until they cave in? Do we create a YT account to get this out? A twitter account?

I don't think so. I think we need to get in like little bugs to the system, biting through individual cables bit by bit until the media start coming after US! Catch us in action and then allow the word to spread. Slowly, people will become aware of what we are doing, how and why, and our popularity will grow.

Nothing happens without step 1.

Help me. Join me. What is step 1.