Some of the Excellent Dining in Gaza.

Originally posted by TheComte
This is nothing more than the Israelis trying to fool the world into thinking there is no suffering in Gaza.

The Nazis did the same thing in Theresienstadt. Read all about how it is done and know that the Israelis are good students as well.

Sorry. But because the world get to know how the "upper class" lives in Gaza, does not nessesarily mean that there is no such things as suffering.

If you think Spain is nothing but fancy hotels and beaches. Better think twice. China got their dark sides too. Even Denmark. Israel is just as same. But it's not what they present in their tourist brochures
Just not when if comes to Gaza, only image they want other to see is the suffering. Why is that ?

You guys are the masters of Links, digging up whatever is suitable to bolster your Position. You can find any link you want, supporting any side you want. Its meaningless. The only meaningful truth is the truth you experience directly and see with your own eyes.

So what you are saying then, backs up my earlier post, that this thread is another armchair propaganda piece that means nothing because no one here has been there?

Out of curiosity - I may have missed this - when did you visit Gaza?

Until recently I believed a lot of the media propaganda too. What changed was that I had a friend who, also believing the media propaganda, WENT to the M.E. to help where he could. He was surprised to find that his"help" was neither needed nor wanted.

A Palestinian took him into his home; my friend didn't even have to stay at a hotel. My friend was alarmed that the Palestinian didn't automatically hate Americans and was equally surprised to discover that many Palestinians welcome Americans AND Israeli's. Apparently, not everyone is a religious zealot even in that part of the world.

He said that Palestinians and Israeli's have kiosks/shops next to one another and intermarry even.

I found all this a little difficult to believe having been thoroughly propagandized by the media so I did a little alternative searching.

I'm a critical care registered nurse so I looked on the nursing websites to see about jobs in the M.E. I asked the recruiters about whether I'd have to stay on a compound or wear a burka, bow obseqiously to the men folk, bring my own water, do all my margarita drinking before I landed on their tarmac, etc.

My recruiter was a little baffled (a M.E. representative, btw.) and asked where in the world I got such a ridiculous idea. She explained the posh living conditions, clean food and water, air conditioning, solid infrastructure, etc. I think she was being condescendingly sarcastic when she finished her presentation by saying that "we even have electricity".

We're being pushed by the media for an agenda. I've no doubt bombs are going off and that there are explosions and people dying. There may even be hunger and poverty. You search the news in AMERICA and you'll see that in the past year there have been explosions, people dying, poverty, hunger, etc. right here in THIS country.

As always, ask: who benefits if I believe this?

this is special, now we have one moderator insinuating another moderator is not being honest about time spent in palestine?

you guys are too much, showing videos of bombings and fires etc are not everyday life in gaza, the suffering is over exposed so the bleeding hearts will pressure Israel to give up their stance on Hamas. You know hamas is an internationally recognized terror organization still?

If Israel stopped the blockade and agreed to cease fire I will bet anyone here the first rocket comes from Hamas into Israel, you know why, because they can't live with a prosperous Israel.

reply to post by GobbledokTChipeater

The only reason aid is delivered solely by israel is because they won't let anyone else deliver aid.

Thats not true actually. The UN stopped delivering aid, because Hamas was stealing it and reselling it at a high mark up.

www.guardian.co.uk...

UN halts aid into Gaza after 'Hamas theft'
Agency blames Islamist government for stealing thousands of tonnes of food

Associated Press
guardian.co.uk, Friday 6 February 2009 15.25 GMT
Article history

The UN agency for Palestinian refugees said today it has halted all aid shipments into the Gaza Strip after the Hamas government seized thousands of tonnes of food and other provisions.

This thread and the way it is defended are the most shamless thing i see on these forums for a while.
The way how you construct your sentences, your incredible "logic" makes me sick.
I think i will not eat tonight anything but drink beer instead.

Originally posted by habfan1968
this is special, now we have one moderator insinuating another moderator is not being honest about time spent in palestine?

I think you need to brush up on your comprehension. I made no such insinuation. I simply asked a question, like people do when they are having a discussion.

I have no doubt Sky spent time there, I'm just asking when.

Originally posted by neformore
this thread is another armchair propaganda piece that means nothing because no one here has been there?

From now on we won't discuss the moon, San Francisco, the Arizona border, or the Deep-water Gulf oil spill unless we've actually been there and seen it first hand. Please no one mention Iran. I don't want to see a single discussion about the Boston Celtics unless you live in Boston and actually went to the game being discussed. Did I get that right or does this rule only apply to discussions about Gaza?
[/sarcasm]

My point has always been and still is not that Gaza is perfect, but that both sides of the story exist and yet we're being spoon-fed only one side. Both good and bad exist in Gaza. It is not heaven on Earth but it is not a concentration camp either.



[edit on 11-6-2010 by dbates]

Originally posted by deccal
This thread and the way it is defended are the most shamless thing i see on these forums for a while.
The way how you construct your sentences, your incredible "logic" makes me sick.
I think i will not eat tonight anything but drink beer instead.

errmm o.k, what exactly are you on about? you will not eat but drink beer instead, i don't get it.

Originally posted by habfan1968
this is special, now we have one moderator insinuating another moderator is not being honest about time spent in palestine?

you guys are too much, showing videos of bombings and fires etc are not everyday life in gaza, the suffering is over exposed so the bleeding hearts will pressure Israel to give up their stance on Hamas. You know hamas is an internationally recognized terror organization still?

If Israel stopped the blockade and agreed to cease fire I will bet anyone here the first rocket comes from Hamas into Israel, you know why, because they can't live with a prosperous Israel.

Excuse me but how can you 'over expose' suffering?

Can't live with prosperous Israel? are you taking about the same Israeli government who forced palestinian families from their homes? and who have the blood of countless innocent people on their hands?

Yeah right.

Originally posted by neformore
Out of curiosity - I may have missed this - when did you visit Gaza?

I actually talked about one of my trips to Israel and Palestine in the Mod-Forums - something you might recall. I visited last time in 2008 I think it was.

And yes, the Links thrown at me from both sides of this are meaningless.
Everybody is throwing links of Blogs around as if it proves anything. The highest level of believability is being there. In second place is seeing Videos. Blogs, Papers, Books, Websites are only in third place.

The image of Palestine when you go to Google-Images, to Flickr, to ATS, to US Newspapers, to UK Newspapers, to European Newspapers, to Arab Newspapers, on CNN, BBC, Fox News is NOT what I saw when I was there.

I stand by that.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by whitewave


Its true that Palestinians dont hate Americans. I partied with both Christian and Muslim Palestinians - and they all knew I had a Hotel in Israel.

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by deccal
This thread and the way it is defended are the most shamless thing i see on these forums for a while.
The way how you construct your sentences, your incredible "logic" makes me sick.
I think i will not eat tonight anything but drink beer instead.

errmm o.k, what exactly are you on about? you will not eat but drink beer instead, i don't get it.

It means that this thread didn't make me hungry but the opposite. I want to have a couple beers and want to forget why and how people lost the good will.

reply to post by whitewave


You can't honestly compare America to Gaza.

For one there is no other government deciding what shall enter into America, and when was the last time an American was forced from their home?

Of course there is electricity, air con, hotels, restaurants etc in the middle east, why wouldnt there be? anyone who assumes the place is a warzone 24/7 is silly and uneducated. But like I said in a previous post just because their happens to be some semblance of modern living and some routine of day to day living in some areas this should not deflect from what is happeniong out there. The Israeli government is responsible for countless deaths of innocent people and alot of people are continuing to experience extreme hardship at the hands of the Israeli government.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by whitewave

 

Its true that Palestinians dont hate Americans. I partied with both Christian and Muslim Palestinians - and they all knew I had a Hotel in Israel.

Mind terribly if I were to ask what one means when they say "partied" with Muslims? Nothing against Muslims but real Muslims do not have a habbit of "partying" in any sense I am familiar with so I am just curious what it entails. Please take this for the honest question that it is and nothing more or less.

Originally posted by deccal
Iand want to forget why and how people lost the good will.

You set out our conversation calling me a liar. If you want goodwill, why dont you start with goodwill?

Before world peace happens, peace between you and me has to happen. If we cant figure it out in small Forums like this wen cant expect world leaders to figure it out.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I dont agree with that. I know in the past people could have came and went from Northern Ireland in the space of a few weeks and not experienced much disorder or conflict, it all depends on when and where you spent your time. For someone to visit for a couple of weeks when it happened to be relatively peaceful then report back that the troubles in Northern Ireland were all blown way out of proportion, just because they didnt see anything first hand.

You cant bear true witness to a place's trouble just by visiting for a while. That is why the best accounts come from the people themselves, the people who live there.

reply to post by evil incarnate


Muslims celebrate. Young Palestinians listen to western music, watch American movies...the works.

Propaganda that dehumanizes people creates the false impression that some nation or culture or religion is "pure evil" and, for example, wouldnt behave in a human manner by celebrating o r partying.

Some here will be shocked to learn that Jews party too.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


Type "Palestine" into Google Images and you might understand what Im trying to say.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thanks for clarifying that Sky

Originally posted by dbates
Did I get that right or does this rule only apply to discussions about Gaza?
[/sarcasm]

My point has always been and still is not that Gaza is perfect, but that both sides of the story exist and yet we're being spoon-fed only one side. Both good and bad exist in Gaza. It is not heaven on Earth but it is not a concentration camp either.

I'm trying to be about balance here.

A hotel menu doesn't indicate the living conditions for the general population.

If that were true then no Ethiopians would be starving, and Cuba would be the best place on earth to live.

The Israel/Palestinian conflict is a grubby little war, surrounded by the worst possible propaganda produced by both sides, fed by self perpetuating blind hatred.

I simply don't see the need to add fuel to that fire, nor do I see the need for sarcasm.