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In jail for being in debt

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posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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As a sheriff's deputy dumped the contents of Joy Uhlmeyer's purse into a sealed bag, she begged to know why she had just been arrested while driving home to Richfield after an Easter visit with her elderly mother.

No one had an answer. Uhlmeyer spent a sleepless night in a frigid Anoka County holding cell, her hands tucked under her armpits for warmth. Then, handcuffed in a squad car, she was taken to downtown Minneapolis for booking. Finally, after 16 hours in limbo, jail officials fingerprinted Uhlmeyer and explained her offense -- missing a court hearing over an unpaid debt. "They have no right to do this to me," said the 57-year-old patient care advocate, her voice as soft as a whisper. "Not for a stupid credit card."

It's not a crime to owe money, and debtors' prisons were abolished in the United States in the 19th century. But people are routinely being thrown in jail for failing to pay debts. In Minnesota, which has some of the most creditor-friendly laws in the country, the use of arrest warrants against debtors has jumped 60 percent over the past four years, with 845 cases in 2009, a Star Tribune analysis of state court data has found.



Read full article


100% unconstitutional, and hopefully people begin civil actions against the debt-holders.


If this type of thing gets to be a widespread problem , lookout.




posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by brainwrek
 


I would be interested to know if the person was interacting with the system, ie, answering the phone, confirming expenditure and giving details away to debt collectors and acknowledging the debts owed by making token payments.

Not sure how the law in the US operates but in the UK if you interact with the system it will interact with you.

A lot of people do not realise when they are actually using their free will and when they are not.

People have a heck of a lot more power than they realise.



[edit on 9-6-2010 by XXXN3O]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 03:49 PM
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That is what "they" plan....mess the economy so the average Joe can't pay his bills....then send "Joe" to the labour camps to work off your debts



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 03:49 PM
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well if you get behind on child support they toss you in jail too. oh yes not to forget the IRS throws folks in jail for un-paid taxes. but hey wait a min, the NEW Healthcare stuff, wait till this begins, those who do make enuff money to afford it but don't because they like to EAT FOOD, they will be TOSSED in jail also..

so with all the presets already in place no one will CARE if you go to jail for un-paid bills, no matter what they may be.

enjoy the world you agree with.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by brainwrek

As a sheriff's deputy dumped the contents of Joy Uhlmeyer's purse into a sealed bag, she begged to know why she had just been arrested while driving home to Richfield after an Easter visit with her elderly mother.

No one had an answer. Uhlmeyer spent a sleepless night in a frigid Anoka County holding cell, her hands tucked under her armpits for warmth. Then, handcuffed in a squad car, she was taken to downtown Minneapolis for booking. Finally, after 16 hours in limbo, jail officials fingerprinted Uhlmeyer and explained her offense -- missing a court hearing over an unpaid debt. "They have no right to do this to me," said the 57-year-old patient care advocate, her voice as soft as a whisper. "Not for a stupid credit card."

It's not a crime to owe money, and debtors' prisons were abolished in the United States in the 19th century. But people are routinely being thrown in jail for failing to pay debts. In Minnesota, which has some of the most creditor-friendly laws in the country, the use of arrest warrants against debtors has jumped 60 percent over the past four years, with 845 cases in 2009, a Star Tribune analysis of state court data has found.



Read full article


100% unconstitutional, and hopefully people begin civil actions against the debt-holders.


If this type of thing gets to be a widespread problem , lookout.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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In January, a judge sentenced a Kenney, Ill., man "to indefinite incarceration" until he came up with $300 toward a lumber yard debt.


Just curious....

How the _ _ _ _ do they expect people to raise the money to pay for the debt they've just been thrown in jail for; while they are in jail?

Messed up, logic.



[edit on 9-6-2010 by LadySkadi]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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I think it's pretty misleading.

She is in no way in jail for being in debt. She was issued a summons to appear in court, and she disobey therefore breaking the law. She was arrested for failure to appear most likely.

Thats like a man being arrested for trespassing saying, I was arrested for walking with my son.

She ran up her debt, shift the blame to whoever you want. She knowingly lived outside her means and now owes someone money who wants that money, has went to court to get that money and now she has disobeyed a court order to appear in court.

Mislead away, I'm sure you'll have 10 pages of people championing her cause.

I don't see why people pick and choose whats ok when it comes to illegal behavior. Theres bound to be plenty who think its ok because shes stickin it to the "corporate man" but at the same time would murder every illegal immigrant that crossed the border because they are destroying our country and economy.

Rarely does anyone think about what the millions of people who owe thousands of dollars they should have never spent is doing to the economy.

But thats everyones fault except the person swiping the card.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by XXXN3O


I would be interested to know if the person was interacting with the system, ie, answering the phone, confirming expenditure and giving details away to debt collectors and acknowledging the debts owed by making token payments.


I worked in debt collections for a number of years in the US. It's true, if you give any details to debt collectors, they will use it against you, any way they can. When calls are made, and even letters, they have to contain what is called a mini miranda. It goes, "this is an attempt to collect a debt, any information obtained will be used to do so." If a person is harassed by debt collectors, the most important thing to never do, is make a payment arrangement, or make any payment on the debt, once the paper is sold. If you do, the debt becomes validated all the way back to day one. Collection companies are not infallable, in the least. I know for example, the company I worked for was sued to the hilt, because they missaplied a payments on an accounts, revalidating a debts, where the debtor never paid a dime.


Not sure how the law in the US operates but in the UK if you interact with the system it will interact with you.


Yep, same in the US.


A lot of people do not realise when they are actually using their free will and when they are not.

People have a heck of a lot more power than they realise.


Yes, they do. A debt, for credit cards is only valid for a certain number of years, even after being sold. A lot of people don't realise for instance, that a bad debt (example, depending where you are) that is five years old, is no longer collectable, even if the paper is sold to a collection agency.

I think this woman had a valid debt, and that is why she got into trouble.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:05 PM
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I know here in MS they have to tell you that you are under arrest and why.

We also have in our State Constitution that there shall be no imprisoment for debt.

Here is a though: I live in MS and a Tax is a debt owed to Government, How can I be imprisoned for falure to pay a debt?



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:06 PM
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Blimey the Government has raised more of a debt than this............but hey, we at the lower chain get bludgeoned

Got to sleep...........Hope to goodness that does not get TAXED!



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by LadySkadi
 





How the _ _ _ _ do they expect people to raise the money to pay for the debt they've just been thrown in jail for; while they are in jail?


They will expect you to work it off in a labour camp...at a very low rate



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by ThaLoccster
 


I think this boils down to a few basic facts.

The ones who create the money in the first place do so both from thin air and knowing that a lot of people cannot afford the loans in the first place.

The people who take loans have various reasons for doing so but the poorer you are the higher the interest you have to pay.

People who are living from meal to meal and have to choose between starving or eating are going to a doorstep lenders that charge around 254.5% APR...

www.wfs.co.uk...

(one example)

if your income is high and you need a loan for a ferrari, why should you be getting an interest rate than is a tiny fraction of someone who needs a small loan for food or clothing?

Either way the money is coming from thin air.

Either you believe in feeding a system its own promise to pay you (look at your money notes) or you support slavery.

Either way, your stuck in the same system as me and its slavery through choice.

Anyways, my point is, do you believe a person should have a second chance or not? Thats all it boils down to with the credit system that is in place and the banks have been given numerous chances. Why not the people?

I believe people should have a second chance if they want to play this game, not just corporations, and thats why I took an interest in understanding the debt system because its just a game to the lenders, might as well be the same for the debtors.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by XXXN3O]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


I think it might be 7 years, I have some on my credit report that have lasted that long. None were gone in 5.

Either way you make a valid point.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by XXXN3O
 


I totally feel what you are saying. But it doesn't change the fact that it is what it is. Like I said in my other post you can shift the blame to whoever you want but in the end it lies soley with the person who swipes the card. Just about everyone know's the risk's involved with credit and choose to make that choice.

I've never had a credit card and I never will. Because I know for a fact if I get one I will be tempted at some point to live outside my means and make a purchase or start a pattern that just screws my whole life.

[edit on 6/9/2010 by ThaLoccster]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by ThaLoccster
 


It all depends on what state you live in, for regards to laws. While I worked for this company in Arizona, we were not even allowed to contact debtors in Texas. The laws change from year to year, though.

For instance, in Arizona, a credit card debt, at the time was valid, before being sold, for 5 years. In Illinoise, for example, a written contract for a vehicle, was 10 years.

Best to check you state laws, is what I am getting at. They all vary greatly, and that would be from year to year.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by ThaLoccster
I think it's pretty misleading.

She is in no way in jail for being in debt. She was issued a summons to appear in court, and she disobey therefore breaking the law. She was arrested for failure to appear most likely.

Thats like a man being arrested for trespassing saying, I was arrested for walking with my son.

She ran up her debt, shift the blame to whoever you want. She knowingly lived outside her means and now owes someone money who wants that money, has went to court to get that money and now she has disobeyed a court order to appear in court.

Mislead away, I'm sure you'll have 10 pages of people championing her cause.

I don't see why people pick and choose whats ok when it comes to illegal behavior. Theres bound to be plenty who think its ok because shes stickin it to the "corporate man" but at the same time would murder every illegal immigrant that crossed the border because they are destroying our country and economy.

Rarely does anyone think about what the millions of people who owe thousands of dollars they should have never spent is doing to the economy.

But thats everyones fault except the person swiping the card.


Let me show you were you went astray:

a) this is a civil action, not a criminal action. In civil actions, if you do not show up, a default judgement is entered against you. A warrant certainly should not be issued, nor should you be arrested.

There is a huge difference between civil and criminal court.

Think of it this way: If you were to get sued, and chose not to show up, should you get arrested for not showing up? Of course not, a default judgement is simply entered against you since you chose to not show up and provide any evidence to the contrary.

b) Debt collectors are notorious for either sending the summons and information about the action to the wrong address, or after the court date has already happened. That is negligence by the very definition of the word, and should be considered a criminal action.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by XXXN3O
 


People I believe, are good from the get go, when it comes to credit.

All it takes is one catastrophic event, and they can be ruined.

Basically credit is a gamble, based on how you are at the time. Many good people have gotten credit, to be caught up in a situation, that makes it hard for them to pay. A catestrophic even, in the US, might be a medical bill, or a loss of a job, divorce, etc..the list is varied.



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by brainwrek


There is a huge difference between civil and criminal court.

Think of it this way: If you were to get sued, and chose not to show up, should you get arrested for not showing up? Of course not, a default judgement is simply entered against you since you chose to not show up and provide any evidence to the contrary.

b) Debt collectors are notorious for either sending the summons and information about the action to the wrong address, or after the court date has already happened. That is negligence by the very definition of the word, and should be considered a criminal action.


However, I think there is more to the story, than told. Perhaps this woman set up payments, and then cancelled her checking account?

Perhaps some of the checks she wrote, were on a closed account, or bounced?

Really the article leaves out a few details. If she wrote a check on a closed account, or the check bounced, yep, then, she should be in jail!

edit to add:

If she was informed of a court date, and didn't show up, whether civil or not, she was waisting a lot of peoples time.

[edit on 9-6-2010 by Blanca Rose]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by ThaLoccster
 


I see your point as well.

But personally speaking I was a hard working man, still am and did my bit for society when it came to paying taxes. I took out a loan from a sub prime lender in the UK as most banks would not lend me money as I had no credit history. (You need to get into debt to get debt)

I got my house with the credit because I would be dead by the time I had saved for it if I wanted to buy it outright. 6 months down the line the company I worked for went bust and theres was nothing I could do.

When you sit down and look at your finances and they read -£1400 per month left over. What the heck do you do?

I chose to play the system as it played me.

I took out a credit card, paid my mortgage with it, took out another and transferred the balance. The original credit card was increased and cleared by my 2nd credit card and I went for broke, spend like mad paying all my bills with credit cards and loans with completely true information ie unemployed bum with no cash to give. I didnt even sign on the dole.

I did this for over a year because I could not get a job and I did not want to end up staying in a cardboard box for a home.

In the end I had 4 credit cards each with balances of over 5k and bang came the end of the line because I chose for it to end. The minute I did this, I was missing mortgage, gas, electricity, council tax and many more bills. It seemed like the end of the line for me.

I chose not to answer the phone, the door, take my name of the voters roll and cut myself out of the system to survive.

I noticed that the sub prime loan I took out did not have a cooling off period, I let them take me to court and submitted an embarrased defence after trying a subject access request for the original documents.

I won the case and I owe nothing to the company in question because they had no agreement, no charge on my property, I took no ownership of the debt because I had no money to do it with, I did not answer the phone, the door or interact in any way whatsover and I was not on the voters roll.

I got my second chance and im still not on the voters roll and I no longer believe in debt because that was my lesson to learn.

I still believe that anyone in dire circumstances deserves a second change when the hand that feeds is feeding you your own promise. Its even on the notes themselves in the UK, Promise to pay the bearer on demand, you get paid and you give their promise to you back in taxes.

People might frown or scorn on what I say here and ive never said it before but before you do, take a good look at the businesses and exactly what is going on.

I would not do it again but if you remember the start of what I have said, the system spat me out like a used cog. I simply survived using any means necessary when I had no other means of getting by.

I am fortunate to have a job now, but it took a bloody long time for me to find one and I have a good set of educational certificates and work experience.

How can anyone who is not rich, guarantee that they can pay a 25 year mortgage without fail when a system as corrupt as the one we live in is in place? Exactly the same with credit cards, you simply cannot.

I may be getting slightly off topic and if so apologies, I just feel strongly when I hear someone say that someones made their bed, let them lie in it. Its just simply not always the case and it is so easy for someone to be tripped up by a system that will use, abuse and toss you away like a used product but thats only if you let it do that to you because we all really do have free will, its only some that understand what exaclty that is.

The only people who can truly afford debt are the ones who do not need it. The lenders.

If you do not understand that or have not experienced that I guarantee you that you will, over time as the rabbit hole gets deeper.



[edit on 9-6-2010 by XXXN3O]



posted on Jun, 9 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by brainwrek

a) this is a civil action, not a criminal action. In civil actions, if you do not show up, a default judgement is entered against you. A warrant certainly should not be issued, nor should you be arrested.


In any case, if a judge issues a summons, or otherwise issues a legally binding ruling, if you break that ruling you broke the law and most likely will be arrested.



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