Israel urges ship to divert course

reply to post by LieBuster


The blockade is legal. Please indicate otherwise.

You are comparing blocking the front to door of my home to the Gaza blockade and the defiance of the blockade by a convoy of ships.

A blockade can be imposed at sea, including in international waters, as long as it does not impede access to the ports and shores of any neutral States.

Israel is in an armed conflict with Hamas,which has declared Israel an enemy, therefore the blockade is legal and has been legal and unchallenged legally since 2007. The blockade went into effect due to the smuggling of foreign weapons and weapon building supplies in the past. The blockade is Israel's only line of defense right now. If you are shipping legal items they will gladly offload and deliver them.

The main goal with this last flotilla was to break the blockade in order to open the channels of arms smuggling back up. The parties at hand want Israel to be left virtually defenseless.

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by LieBuster

 

The blockade is legal. Please indicate otherwise.

I think you will find it is illegal.

www.foxnews.com...

Originally posted by sueloujo

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by LieBuster

 

The blockade is legal. Please indicate otherwise.

I think you will find it is illegal.

www.foxnews.com...

Did you read your own article? That was one persons OPINION from the human rights council on the matter. Hence the Blockade stands and it has never been legally challenged because Israel is involved in an armed conflict with Hamas who currently governs the Gaza strip. It's tricky but legal.

Please ask Hamas what they are doing with the hundreds of tons of aid supplies that funnel in on a weekly basis. Also ask them if the they are relaying the supplies onto the Fatah controlled region.

Perhaps Hamas and Fatah/PA should work things out first to achieve greater success for all in the region.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by jibeho]

Originally posted by jibeho

You are comparing blocking the front to door of my home to the Gaza blockade and the defiance of the blockade by a convoy of ships.

Indeed i am.

A blockade can be imposed at sea, including in international waters, as long as it does not impede access to the ports and shores of any neutral States.

it's not legal and is imoral like me standing in front of your front door if it opens on to a street.

Israel is in an armed conflict with Hamas,which has declared Israel an enemy.

Yes but thats for taking their land and continuing to take more.

The blockade went into effect due to the smuggling of foreign weapons and weapon building supplies in the past. The blockade is Israel's only line of defense right now. If you are shipping legal items they will gladly offload and deliver them.

I'll deliver whats in your bag after i've taken out what i like but please don't get violent else i'll have to kill you.

The main goal with this last flotilla was to break the blockade in order to open the channels of arms smuggling back up. The parties at hand want Israel to be left virtually defenseless.

No the goal is to leave Gaza defenseless so the rape can continue and this is why iserail will never deliver peace.

Why do you persist in saying the seize is legal when Irerail is not officaly at war with gaza and says it is not a accupying force (yes i know its spelt wrong)

in my judgment both from a moral and legal perspective i have shown iserail to be in the wrong and i might agree with you about guns being smuggled in once the blocade is lifted but then again i beleive in a fair fight and without one iserail wil continue to do as it wants and will keep taking land and lives so look at it as me being twice your size and standing on your door step.

reply to post by jibeho


If you want to go down that route..the blockade is not legal OR illegal..but it is on very shakey ground as explained here.

www.globalresearch.ca...

But this blockade as it stands is internationally condemned.

reply to post by Curio


If the animal get's mad the only solution is to neutralise it.

Originally posted by Bhadhidar

Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by Bhadhidar

 

So, you don't actually care about the aid reaching the people of Gaza, you only care about running the blockade.

Break the blockade and then start smuggling the weapons back into Gaza.

That will make everything better, won't it?

I don't Trust that the "bully" in this instance will send ALL of the aid to the people of Gaza.

If that was Israel's intent, they would not require the aid ship(s) to dock at a port of their choosing, instead of the most convenient to the Gazans, would they?


If Israel is worried about weapons being smuggled into Gaza, or more to the point, worried about weapons in Gaza being used against Israel, then maybe it is high time that Israel Start negotiating a Peace Treaty with the Gazans!


It is time that the US realize that Israel has out-lived its usefulness to the US agenda in the Middle East.

It is time that the US cut itself free of Israel.


And it is Long Past Time that Israel grew-up and learned to get along with her neighbors.




Or Suffer the Consequences!


And THAT might, just, make Everything Better.



[edit on 4-6-2010 by Bhadhidar]

There is no such thing as Gazans...Palestinians, maybe.And, sadly, there
won't be any peace treaty between Palestinians and Israel, because this
will imply a recognition of Israel...which is against their principles.

The only peace there will be after one side will emerge victorius (and in
a big manner) over the other side.Stop living in a dream world where
talking about peace actualy makes peace.

Its either ''peace'' under Israeli conditions or ''peace'' under Arabs
conditions.Nothing in between is realisticly achievable.

They wanna help palestinians in Gaza but not going thru Isreli ports?
Dock in an Egyptian port, unload the aid and transfer it to Gaza.
They wanna care ONLY about PR against Israel? Than keep the current
course and run the blockade.

Israeli govt made a choice. Instead of killing quickly all of the palestinians, they work slowly.
And we are are here, arguing of the #ing legality of an attack. Choosing fox news as an information source is a joke, and several arguments here are just bs.
The blockade is on a shakey ground because Israel does not accept that the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention formally applies in the occupied territories. Period. And assaulting a ship in international water is illegal

In case i'm partially or totally wrong, at least Israel has given a proof of its military amateurism.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by 3daysofdarkness]

Originally posted by jibeho

Furthermore, the blockade and the ship boarding were LEGAL. The attack on the IDF officers was ILLEGAL and provocative.

Israel is bending the rules to suit itself.
The blockade wasn't legal and Sam Remo applies to two states at war.

If the blockade is illegal so is enforcing it.

- Lee

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by LieBuster

 

The blockade is legal. Please indicate otherwise.

The blockade is in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1860:

The Resolution called for "an immediate ceasefire in Gaza leading to a full Israeli withdrawal, unimpeded provision through Gaza of food, fuel and medical treatment, and intensified international arrangements to prevent arms and ammunition smuggling." Wiki

It is in violation of articles of the Geneva Convention:

4th Geneva Convention Part III : Status and treatment of protected persons Section I: Provisions common to the territories of the parties to the conflict and to occupied territories

Article 33

No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited. wiki

It isn't legal, save only to Israel and because "they said so".
When they raided the vessels they were responsible for what happened.

- Lee

Well then.

and intensified international arrangements to prevent arms and ammunition smuggling

since the prevention of arms and ammo smuggling never took place, this point becomes moot.

reply to post by Recollector


Hamas have said they support a two state solution pre 1967 borders with east jerusalem as their capital, the majority of the world agrees with them. I don't even like calling this a 'conflict' anymore, this is about israel occupying palestine and the palestinains trying to drive out the occupiers. Palestinians are the victims in all this and Israel is the perpetrator.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Solomons]

Hello,
I don't know how to show the map of Gaza. It's on Google Maps.

Pull it up and notice the twenty-or-so-miles of sea-shore, via the Mediterranean Sea. Now doesn't Israel have to invade the waters off Gaza in order to blockade any ships coming to port?

I'm not well versed in the situation obviously, but, isn't it strange looking from my uneducated perspective; (inside Armistice agreement line est. in 1950) I see what could be Gaza's own port/marina?

Or, is Gaza like a state-owned province? Israel to me appears to be not only stepping on toes on land, but at sea as well?

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by Recollector

 

Hamas have said they support a two state solution pre 1967 borders with east jerusalem as their capital, the majority of the world agrees with them. I don't even like calling this a 'conflict' anymore, this is about israel occupying palestine and the palestinains trying to drive out the occupiers. Palestinians are the victims in all this and Israel is the perpetrator.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by Solomons]

Hello,
If I may add...And to include the supporters of Israel are also perpe-traitors.

reply to post by lee anoma


REsolution 1860 was a cease fire agreement that was written in response to a deadly 13 day conflict between IDF and Hamas that neither side has completely followed. Israel and Hamas are still involved in an armed conflict and the continued rocket strikes into Israel from Gaza ensured that the resolution would never hold.

Meanwhile, Egypt and Israel have both enacted the blockade and Israel still ships hundreds of tons of medical and other supplies on a weekly basis into Gaza only to be squandered by Hamas.

1860 has nothing to due with a naval blockade. The entire resolution was written with the primary expectation that Israel would bare the majority of the burden of the resolution guidelines and they have primarily followed through. Sadly, there are no apparent provision to hold Hamas accountable for anything.

Here are the nine clauses of Resolution 1860 calling for a ceasefire in Gaza:

1. The Security Council stresses the urgency of and calls for an immediate, durable and fully respected ceasefire, leading to the full withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza.


2. The Security Council calls for the unimpeded provision and distribution throughout Gaza of humanitarian assistance, including of food, fuel and medical treatment.


3. The Security Council welcomes the initiatives aimed at creating and opening humanitarian corridors and other mechanisms for the sustained delivery of humanitarian aid.


4. The Security Council calls on member states to support international efforts to alleviate the humanitarian and economic situation in Gaza, including through urgently needed additional contributions to UNWRA and through the Ad Hoc Liaison Committee.


5. The Security Council condemns all violence and hostilities directed against civilians and all acts of terrorist.


6. The Security Council calls upon member states to intensify efforts to provide arrangements and guarantees in Gaza in order to sustain a durable ceasefire and calm, including to prevent illicit trafficking in arms and ammunition and to ensure the sustained reopening of crossing points on the basis of the 2005 Agreement on Movement and Access between the Palestinian Authority; and in this regard, welcomes the Egyptian initative, and other regional and international efforts that are underway.


7. The Security Council encourages tangible steps towards intra-Palestinian reconciliation including in support of mediation efforts of Egypt and the League of Arab States as expressed in the 26 November 2008 resolution, and consistent with Security Council Resolution 1850 (2008) and other relevant resolutions.


8. The Security Council calls for renewed and urgent efforts by the parties and the international community to achieve a comprehensive peace based on the vision of a region where two democratic states, Israel and Palestine, live side by side in peace with secure and recognized borders, as envisaged in Security Council Resolution 1850 (2008), and recalls also the important of the Arab Peace Initiative.


9. The Security Council welcomes the Quartet's consideration, in consultation with the parties, of an international meeting in Moscow in 2009.

www.un.org...

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by lee anoma

 

REsolution 1860 was a cease fire agreement that was written in response to a deadly 13 day conflict between IDF and Hamas that neither side has completely followed.

Yes, that is what it clearly states.

Meanwhile, Egypt and Israel have both enacted the blockade and Israel still ships hundreds of tons of medical and other supplies on a weekly basis into Gaza only to be squandered by Hamas.

Yet the current state of Gaza still is a humanitarian crisis as declared by the UN and its Secretary General?

New UN report spotlights humanitarian crisis triggered by blockade of Gaza

The ongoing Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip, now in its third year, has triggered a “protracted human dignity crisis” with negative humanitarian consequences, according to a new report released today by the United Nations relief wing.

“At the heart of this crisis is the degradation in the living conditions of the population, caused by the erosion of livelihoods and the gradual decline in the state of infrastructure, and the quality of vital services in the areas of health, water and sanitation, and education,” adds the report, entitled “Locked In: The Humanitarian Impact of Two Years of Blockade on the Gaza Strip.” U.N.org

BBC: Gaza's Humanitarian Crisis

Something is not adding up.

You can't keep shipping people meager amenities and not allow them the opportunity to provide from themselves or rebuild their devastated infrastructure by denying any rebuilding materials at the point of lethal force and claim you're all they need.

Hell, they can't even admit there is a crisis no matter what anyone else says.

It's an Israeli controlled and maintained ghetto. Plain and simple.
As Dov Weisglass, former adviser to Ehud Olmert stated, they are on a near-death "diet".

Also you can put the two together but this blockade is Israels baby.
Egyptian greedy and corrupt leaders joined in for the 2 billion a year from the U.S.

They've recently allowed Palestinians to cross their border in order to receive assistance. In the past they've convinced Israel not to close the borders during any cease-fire violations and allowed a majority of the 1.5 million Palestinians to cross into their lands via the hole in the former Israeli Gaza Strip barrier.

They aren't really consequential, the leaders are in opposition to the people, and I guarantee you wont be reading a similar article regarding a deadly raid with Egypt as the culprit.

1860 has nothing to due with a naval blockade.

No, I'm afraid it does.

Specifically the part that deals with the "unimpeded provision through Gaza of food, fuel and medical treatment".

It doesn't mention specifically the blockade but the blockade itself violates its tenets.
This is the height of impediment.

There are people within the UN itself that have stated this.
It's possible they helped create the resolution yet don;t understand it, but I doubt it.

- Lee