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Legalize Immigration

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posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 07:29 AM
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Legalize Immigration


A lot of Arizonans are upset about illegal immigration, and to learn why, you can't do better than the letter from Arizona State Sen. Sylvia Allen. Widely circulated on the Internet, it provides a pungent statement of the frustrations behind the new law stiffening enforcement—while confirming that it's the wrong remedy.

People on the border, she writes, "have pleaded for help to stop the daily invasion of humans who cross their property." The migrants damage fences, scatter trash, and sometimes perish en route. "One rancher testified that 300 to 1,200 people a DAY come across his ranch," reports Allen.

The illegal entries, she believes, undermine our status as "a nation of laws." With a state budget deficit, "we do not have the money to care for any who are not here legally," she says.

Hers are not the only complaints being heard. Among others: Illegals don't pay taxes. They steal Social Security numbers to get jobs. They drive down wages by working off the books.

All no doubt true. But the legislation assumes that tougher enforcement at the border and within the state will magically banish these problems. In fact, those options have already been tried, and all they have done is make things worse.

The supporters of the law, meanwhile, overlook the obvious. There is a simple way to stop the lawless stream, protect Americans living on the border, improve adherence to law, and reduce the costs of accommodating people who have no right to be here.

The solution? Stop focusing on trying to keep illegal immigrants out and start focusing on letting legal immigrants in.


This is an angle I really hadn't considered in all of the maelstrom surrounding illegal immigration until recently and I found this article that touches on a kind of shift in my thinking on illegal immigration.

Here in the Atlanta area, an incident happened which has sparked another national debate on immigration issues. College student Jessica Colotl was discovered to be here illegally after providing a false address to a police officer. It turns out she had been brought to America illegally as a 10 year old child, completed high school and went on to attend college. She was discovered to be here illegally and the questions began about how to handle this issue.

Most people polled want her deported immediately. While this is a seemingly logical knee-jerk response, the fact is that there exists no practical method for her to attain legal citizenship given her circumstances. Additionally, this would place her into another country that she doesn't really know with no real connections. Plus we'd be deporting a motivated college-educated individual.

This made me realize we need new ways to accommodate not only the people arriving in droves on a daily basis, but the unfortunate children of those people who are now grown and have little opportunity to achieve a legal status. Thoughts?




posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 07:33 AM
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We already allow too much legal immigration. There is no need for it anymore, let the Americans have America. This is OUR homeland.

Reduce legal immigration to 100,000 per year, minimum of an associates degree required to even be considered. Only allow those immigrants who can benefit the nation rather then drain the nation.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by ChrisF231
We already allow too much legal immigration. There is no need for it anymore, let the Americans have America. This is OUR homeland.

Reduce legal immigration to 100,000 per year, minimum of an associates degree required to even be considered. Only allow those immigrants who can benefit the nation rather then drain the nation.


Okay, let's accept that at face value. How then should we deal with people such as Jessica Colatl who was brought here involuntarily by her parents as a 10 year old child? Should such people be deported or should they be provided an avenue to attain citizenship?



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Nip it in the bud. Nip it. Nip it now. Trace the problem to the source. Why would someone want to hike through hell and high water to get here? The source of the problem is in the locale of where the immigrant is coming from. Is Mexico so bad? Why would anyone want to leave that country? It really is a lovely country - geographically. Just look up the word "peon" and you will see the mindset. Instead of the US being changed to accomodate the rest of the world, it should change the rest of the world by annexing individual countries and applying statehood to each. Enforce law and order. Enforce the Constitution. Hold "foreigners" to the the same standard. This planet is really too small now to be a bunch of individual countries. The question is will it be the Soviet Union of Amerika or the United Planet of America.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:03 AM
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Um, I'm sorry that I even have to point his out, but the United States HAS LEGAL IMMIGRATION. In fact, we have recently increased the number of "legal" immigrants that we permit into the country every year. The number of H-1B and TN visas has increased expontentially over the past 15 years. These folks come to the US and take jobs that Americans would be more than happy to do and often for a fraction of the going wage.

The corporate lobby has dumped millions upon millions of dollars on CONgress to INCREASE the number of legal immigrants and guest workers because of this.

No, the answer is to RESTRICT legal immigration and DECREASE the number of guest-woker visas until such time that our economy recovers and our borders are FULLY secured.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


I would vote to deport her. If she had done the right thing in the first place and were attempting to gain legal citizenship beforehand, I'd be much more sympathetic, but there's no mention of that. Instead, she's a 21 year old adult illegal immigrant who is crying foul because she got caught while driving around Atlanta without a driver's license, an act that put others at risk in the process, I might add. Well, too bad.




[edit on 3-6-2010 by vor78]



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by vor78


I would vote to deport her. If she had done the right thing in the first place and were attempting to gain legal citizenship beforehand, I'd be much more sympathetic, but there's no mention of that.


That's because she was brought here when she was ten by her parents entering illegally. She did not arrive here voluntarily. What avenue does someone in that situation have?



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


I think a case that you bring up is an exception, a special case. For someone like her, an avenue for citizenship should be provided.

That said, I think that illegal immigration needs to be dealt with. We can't just allow people to come in whenever they feel like it. There is a process for legal immigration and it should be used. Illegals shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of the infrastructure that are available in America; like free schooling and the like. If there was no benefit for them to come, they wouldn't. Plain and simple.

Providing a pathway to citizenship for all illegal immigrants isn't the way to go. In doing such a thing, you're rewarding people for breaking the law. What sort of example is that setting for anyone?



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by kozmo
Um, I'm sorry that I even have to point his out, but the United States HAS LEGAL IMMIGRATION.


Indeed. The title is simply a play on words.


No, the answer is to RESTRICT legal immigration and DECREASE the number of guest-woker visas until such time that our economy recovers and our borders are FULLY secured.


That makes sense but how can that effectively be accomplished?



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


She's also been a legal adult for three years. She can find time to go to college, she can find time to drive around Atlanta without a proper license (endangering other drivers in the process), but she can't find time to go to the local immigration office?

Yeah, they might deport her if she did, but again, I'd be far more sympathetic if she'd got caught while trying to do the right thing instead.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by octotom
I think a case that you bring up is an exception, a special case. For someone like her, an avenue for citizenship should be provided.


Agreed. This girl is not the only one though: there are more. What avenue exists for people in that circumstance?



That said, I think that illegal immigration needs to be dealt with. We can't just allow people to come in whenever they feel like it.


I agree. But the mass influx of illegal immigrants might suggest that the means available for legal immigration simply cannot handle those desiring to be here. Should we focus on expanding avenues for legal citizenship?

[edit on 3-6-2010 by traditionaldrummer]



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by ChrisF231
 


The better thing to do would be to make sure that someone that wants to immigrate here is able to support themselves once they come to America, not say no to someone that doesn't have an arbitrary degree. Someone shouldn't be turned away from legal residency because they decided that they wanted to do an apprenticeship instead of going to college for two years.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:39 AM
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So the answer is to award illegal behavior, so simple and so wring, no wonder we have such a problem in this country when we have people who think like this.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by yoesse
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Nip it in the bud. Nip it. Nip it now.





Let me pose a real question for this issue.

Why is the Mexican population so docile? If their country is so bad, that they risk their life to leave, then take your country back.
Why do the Mexicans not revolt against their very corrupt government? Take your country from the crooks.
You guys came to the wrong country to pick a fight.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by Eagleheart56
So the answer is to award illegal behavior


What gives you this impression? That's certainly not my stance nor is it the suggestion of the writer of the posted article.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:51 AM
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Good to you OP...I think you are seeing the only viable option in this whole mess.

But the responses we get see the core of the problem of the "anti illegals" crowd. They will scream that they only have problems with ILLEGAL immigrants...but once you suggest that the only logical way to decrease ILLEGAL immigrants is to allow MORE LEGAL immigration (and I would suggest EASIER and CHEAPER legal immigration)...then the "anti illegal" agenda really comes out because they don't want LEGAL immigrants either.

The only way you are going to stop illegal immigration is to remove the MOTIVATION for people to come here illegally. I have said many times how to do this...no one ever tries to refute that my solutions would work...just that they don't like them.

It is very easy...harshly punish American employers that are hiring illegals and dramatically increase the limits on legal immigration and make it much easier and cheaper to come here legally. If it is easier to come here legally than illegally and if you can only get a job as a legal immigrant...guess what...illegal situation is solved. But no one will support this...because their argument changes from "they came here illegally" to "we can't support any more people".


It's pretty funny to watch.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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What I'm curious about is how someone like that can actually enrol in a college I know here in the UK almost everywhere demands birth certificates nation insurance numbers, medical certificates and differing forms of ID.

It does seem harsh on her if she has lived there since being a child though I'm just surprised someone can fit into society so well without all the relevant forms presumably that means illegals are probably voting and everything there.



[edit on 3-6-2010 by Teknikal]



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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I'm sure there are many, current citizens and those looking for the opportunity to become one, that would argue our current policies do not allow enough people to come to this country legally, which of course is everybody's goal.

That being said, I would again emphasize that breaking our current laws and coming to this country illegally does not become a justified offense. Why? Because there is no such thing. Laws are laws and just as we citizens must follow them, whether we agree or disagree with them, so must everyone else.

Our immigrant laws are Federal laws and are applicable to all 50 states. The people coming to this country illegally from Canada are no better and no worse than those coming from Mexico. There is nothing in our current law that differentiates illegals by their country of origin, nor should there ever be.

The current problem is not Arizona. The current problem is the Federal Government and their unwillingness to enforce the laws. This is not just applicable to the current administration, this is a problem that has been largely overlooked by the past several administrations.

When government chooses to ignore laws and allow people to live here illegally, they do an injustice to those that followed the laws and worked through the red tape, and of course are doing an injustice to current citizens. There are quite a few laws in this country that I personally would love to ignore....unfortunately that won't work for me and it certainly shouldn't work for anyone else.



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by lpowell0627

That being said, I would again emphasize that breaking our current laws and coming to this country illegally does not become a justified offense. Why? Because there is no such thing. Laws are laws and just as we citizens must follow them, whether we agree or disagree with them, so must everyone else.


I agree wholeheartedly, and that the federal government has consistently dropped the ball on this issue from administration to administration. In the case that I referenced in the OP, what can we do for citizens that arrived here not only illegally but involuntarily? This girl appears to have no viable options for legal citizenship.

Since the influx of immigrants far exceeds the processing power of our government's avenues of acquiring citizenship legally, should we do more to accommodate those who wish to come to America?



posted on Jun, 3 2010 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by ChrisF231
We already allow too much legal immigration. There is no need for it anymore, let the Americans have America. This is OUR homeland.


OUR homeland?

Who exactly are we?

The last time I checked, this is a nation of immigrants. Unless you are a 100% direct descendant of the American Indians who inhabited this land before the Vikings first landed in Vinland, then you have no right to chastise other immigrants who are simply trying to do the exact same thing your great-grandparents did.



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