The Attack on the Terrorist Flotilla

reply to post by NoamC



At 53 seconds, is that a paintball gun being brandished just right of center screen?

Or am I mistaken?

*Edit* according to some post on the second page, apparently so. My bad*


[edit on 31-5-2010 by humthebassline]

reply to post by NoamC

The thing is, humanitarian activists can't fight like that.

You'd be surprised - anyone can fight. Are knives & clubs now the terrorists weapon of choice against a modern army?

In conclusion, the terrorists aboard were not there to help Gaza, they were there for more violence, they love it.

A bit like the IDF then. Shame it's the commandos who initiated hostilities by landing on their ship in international waters, armed to the teeth.

It was announced that the fleet has on board the cargo of 10000 tons, exclusively humanitarian. Look at the photographs of flagship Mavi Marmara, and tell me where exactly do you see the cargo holds?? They are not there!! BUT there are 750 activists who will consume more than the cost to transport these 10,000 tons. 6 vessels - at 10000 tons one would be more than enough; it is not heavy, conventional truck, which will cost much less than one Mavi Marmara. Question: Why to charter an expensive cruise ship and land on him 750 parasites, chartering cargo separately for 5 vessels, it is unclear which and why the heck 5??? ONE WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH?

Originally posted by Catch_a_Fire

Originally posted by NoamC
reply to post by Peruvianmonk

 

"they broke the paintball guns we were armed with"

Im sorry but in no way whatsoever would Israel arm their IDF with paintball guns , especially with intel apparently knowing what was on board. Is this confirmed are they really expecting us to believe this?

It's believable, the OP video clearly shows the soldiers armed with paintball guns. Evidently they use them to mark the people who are being difficult for later identification.

Read the green flag under the assorted knives sieved. I think that pretty much sums up the real purpose of thaat ship going to Gaza.

Isreal has every right to stop ships entering the 100mile radius off the coast of Gaza. Gaza is a terrorist state that likes to use schools and hospitals as storehouses for weapons so if someone strikes back at a rocket launch site them can claim civillians where killed.

OP I know the video you have shows the Israeli's being attacked... but in the media blackout created by Israel (which begs the question why?) we do not yet have the true accounts of apparent gunshots fired prior to the Mavi being boarded. If shots were fired, it's now a kill or be killed situation. I say bravo to the brave souls who stood up against armed men attacking their position.

Contrary to your OP, ALL 6 boats were towed into Israeli harbours and, some agencies put it, giving each of the activists a choice of deportation or detention. You don't really think that's a choice though? They will take statements and ensure none of those involved will be able to tell the truth to media at home. They will obtain written signed statements so that any discrepancy can be argued later on and a written signed confession that the lead aid ship was the aggressor. I'm sure we'll hear of many people who won't do this and will remain in 'detention'.

An Israeli spokesperson yesterday said "this could have been any Military. What if it was the British? What if it was the Americans?"... well i'd like ask him.... What if it was Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon??? Do you think any of these countries would get away with an 'independant inquiry'? What makes Israel so damn untouchable?

1. Why would a commando arm himself with a paint ball gun ?

2. If 10 people got killed what was used to kill them ... paint ball gun ?

3. Official story from idf is that a rifle was taken from one of their commandos and used against them .... if the the commandos were armed with only paint ball gun and pistol, then where did the rifle come from ?

4. If no 3 is correct and rifle was taken and used then how come there are no dead commandos ?

reply to post by Pr0t0


You mention that "what if this was the British"

Well you only have to look at the SS Exodus in 1947 which was also heading towards Palestine (but boarded by the British) to see the similar paralells, except the Exodus was not boarded in international water...

Tho the international condemnation of the boarding of the SS Exodus was one of the main tipping points that led to the creation of the state of Israel.

So given the Israeli's first hand knowledge of the impact that this type of adventurism causes one has to wonder why they would embark on such a mission AND in international waters.

Edit bad spelling

[edit on 1/6/10 by thoughtsfull]

reply to post by bigyin


The paint ball guns were supposedly to be enough for crowd control. Majorty were armed with pistols and some soldiers also had M-16s Yes, whoever planned this operation was that, well - naive. This should not have ended as it did if only politicians and top military would plan it right.
Was it that hard to use water cannons and only then board police with riot shields? Then no lethal force would be needed It is easy to speak after what happened but everybody i spoke with before this knew that there would be provocations. And they just threw few commandos who are trained to kill, one by one into hostile crowd ,with instructions to use paint balls.
Shameful.

People who can defend cold blooded murder deserve no respect and shall see none from me. What kind off people can defend this parasite Israel?

I would like to know how much they pay you to infest the internet. Quite clearly religious fanaticism is more than prevalent in the Zionist community - looking through this thread – clearly percolates ATS.

Double standards, more like sub standard. Let’s hope the sympathizers don't suffer any severe doses of Irony in the future. How can you people justify murder and expect yourselves worthy of any respect?

meh

Originally posted by bigyin
1. Why would a commando arm himself with a paint ball gun ?

2. If 10 people got killed what was used to kill them ... paint ball gun ?

3. Official story from idf is that a rifle was taken from one of their commandos and used against them .... if the the commandos were armed with only paint ball gun and pistol, then where did the rifle come from ?

4. If no 3 is correct and rifle was taken and used then how come there are no dead commandos ?

Even though you did not come to talk about resolving this situation but instead to push Israel - the best terrorist fighting nation in the world into the ground even more, I will try to answer your questions in the most unbiased fashion I can.

1. A commando would not arm himself with a paintball gun. His superiors who could not have imagined such resistance on a humanitarian aid boat thought that all a soldier would need is a paintball gun, minimizing the chances of casualties.

2,3. The official story by Dover Tzahal - the PR forum of the IDF states this:

During the boarding of the Mavi Marmara ship, the largest of the flotilla’s ships which held hundreds of people, the Israeli Navy soldiers were attacked with gunfire, stun grenades, knives, and clubs. The demonstrators stole two pistols from the soldiers and also used these to shoot at the soldiers.

and:

Two soldiers were injured from the gunfire and an additional soldier suffered wounds after being stabbed by a knife. In total, seven Naval soldiers were injured. Four of these soldiers are currently categorized as in moderate condition, one is lightly injured, and two have been released from the hospital. Nine of the flotilla participants who were on board the Mavi Marmara ship were killed. As a result of this life-threatening and violent activity, the naval soldiers who were equipped with paintball guns in order to avoid using live fire, were forced to change their original plans, using first their riot dispersal means, followed by live fire. The video clips taken at sea show how the first soldiers who boarded the ship using a cable from a helicopter are lynched by the ship’s passengers. They are attacked by a mass of people armed with metal pipes and chairs and one soldier is thrown from the ship. Additionally, the video shows passengers attacking the soldiers with a stun grenade and a Molotov cocktail, and attempting to capture one of the soldiers.

that is the official IDF statement up until now.
Dover Tzahal

4. have you seen Shayetet 13? you can't really kill these guys. The bravery of these soldiers who continued dropping into the crowd while watching their friends being beaten with clubs and knives all over the deck is unprecedented. These are the soldiers that even in these chances of 200 out of 600 people on the boat rioting, on their own regained control over the situation.

The sympathy for these disguised peacemakers is and absolute 0 over here.

To your attention..
EDIT: source

[edit on 1-6-2010 by NoamC]

The israelie press have gone o.t.t on the PR in a hope to make them look like the victims, no sympathy whatsoever for the pirates. Shooting people at point blank like that on a crowded ship was lunacy and many innocents were hurt. I sincerley hope the freedom fighters who are detained in israel are released quickly and without charge , they should no be allowed to continue there journey, un-hindered.

reply to post by NoamC


Okay. You've posted a video of some "poles and rods" being swung. By chance, do you have any video of the Israeli's shooting the passengers in the face? Or... d... err, I didn't think so.


Cheers
Strype

Just guessing, but maybe the paintball guns, taken in tandem with the "list" that was recovered from the Israeli comandos, were to be used to mark targets.

I also think it needs to made clear that it wasn't all the commandos that were carrying non-lethal paintball guns, just a few for marking purposes, and they too also would have carried standard firearms.

[edit on 1-6-2010 by Britguy]

Terrorism

ter·ror·ism (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
terrorism [ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm]
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve some goal
2. the act of terrorizing
3. the state of being terrorized
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
terrorism
1. a method of government or of resisting government involving domination or coercion by various forms of intimidation, as bombing or kidnapping.
2. the state of fear and terror so produced. — terrorist, n., adj. — terroristic, adj.
See also: Politics

Well thats cleared this cr@p up.

Clearly Israel was justified!

Again who would be the real terrorists?



[edit on 1-6-2010 by DomhainGràdh]

reply to post by haterproof

Fact is nations worldwide initiate hostile acts in international waters when it serves their purpose. Be it the "drug war," anti- piracy missions, etc. The whole "international waters" argument is at best uninformed, at worst an intentional and glaring strawman

It's not an argument. International waters are a VERY serious issue for certain regions of the world. They are rigid, highly specific borders that are (almost always) recognized by the international community. In this case I believe Israel's borders extends 12 miles off the coast around Israel and the occupied territories.

Secondly, this sort of thing does NOT have precedent. This was officially an aid flotilla with unarmed activists. They made their intentions clear to all parties, and Israel responded with acknowledgment of their peaceful mission, even though they condemned its methods.

Thirdly, all the passengers as well as every last bit of cargo was inspected by customs officials from their respective countries. As some posters here have pointed out, there were no weapons found after the conflict, besides dubious photographs of knives that clearly came from the kitchen.

This is an entirely new event in history - an aid flotilla, publicly acknowledged by all parties as being peaceful and unarmed, being attacked in international waters by a sovereign nation - there is no excuse whatsoever.

OP, thanks for posting...

2 sides to every story folks!

why didn't the bbc have a reporter on the floatilla? why isn't it saying, like other outlets, that protesters were waving white flags. israel says they were attacked first..a reporter on the boat says its commandos were shooting before they'd even got on the thing. why if there were british people on board has t...he uk been so slow to condemn when germany, france and italy have?

reply to post by thoughtsfull


i highly doubt they were using paintball guns, i didn't see any nice colorful splatters, the only color that was perhaps seen was red.

this is going to spark something huge..

reply to post by depmode101


'ello *waves*

I don't remember posting anything about paintball guns! and have been trying not to comment that much on this topic, except for pointing out the historical importance and similarity to the passage, boarding and capture by the British of the SS Exodus heading to Palestine in 1947.

The carpture of which was one of the main historical tipping points in the creation of the state of Israel.. and I forsee similar circumstances, contrived or otherwise happening here..

edit spelling

[edit on 1/6/10 by thoughtsfull]