Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

reply to post by lucid eyes


I have and I have pointed out numerous times that most of the passengers were at least middle-aged, several were politicians, and one was a 86 year-old Holocaust survivor. Funny how the crowd thinking Israel is 100% right has ignored that.

My oh my....

I don't know what's more contentious, the idea that people have to be subjected to force in course of human events, or the fact that we accept bias and manipulation as a premise for our arguments.

Let's pretend for a moment....

Let's pretend that the people directly involved with this incident are NOT idiots, automatons, unthinking zealots, or simply insane....

Look, The issues of nationalities aside, if we knew ... no, scratch that... think, think....

We are witnesses to nothing. We are SHOWN what we given to see. We don't know either way whether there was provocation or not. None can provide proof of the subtle way that such provocation may have been executed, by either side. A video, is a segment in time, taken from a single perspective, and given by one of two vehemently opposed parties to support their case.

You want tragedy? Dead people, that's a tragedy.

You want answers? You had to be there to know.

From whom will you accept them otherwise. The jocks who did the commando thing? Or the pretentious holier-than-thou activists who dared them to do so by ignoring the warning this would happen?

Let's face it people. This thing, whatever you want to call it is a game being played out at a level beyond civic action. This could very well be, as grotesquely cold as it may sound, the usual supranational sleight of hand to which we should all be sensitive.

It could be that there was some kind of reasonable intelligence that compelled the IDF to take this action.

It could be that the military commander wanted to express his testosterone on these uppity hippes. It could be that some Rambo-wannabe activist needed to do the same.

It could be that someone was using this as an opportunity to change the focus of the world.

What oil spill, what Korean saber rattling, what Euro-crisis? Famine, disease, earth changes, whatever. Need money? Make war.

You can discuss who offended whom all you like. You can discuss theocracies and elitists, you can discuss thuggery in politics, you can discuss the duplicitous nature of international relations...

But this story is about a specific act, one with a definite range in time and scope. We should be careful of what we wish for here.... this is the beginning; "beginnings are a very delicate time."

How this comes to an end depends on whether people focus on a reckoning, on revenge, or on justice, all of which are a matter of perspective.


[edit on 31-5-2010 by Maxmars]

I admire these Anti-Zionist Jews who support freedom. Respect! Please check out the video.

www.youtube.com...

I'm surprised the Israeli consulate security team didn't come out to shoot them at sight ...

And you know what really pisses me off?

If Israel was concerned about the frotilla and a confrontation between the IDF and the ships were inevitable, the Israeli government could have given the frotilla a chance to reach the shores of Gaza while being escorted. Then they could see if it they were indeed ships bringing aid or some smugglers trying to arm the people in Gaza.

Is that so hard to do? Or is it better to raid the ships and kill civilians.

I know from the long history between Israel and the Palestinians that most people are already on one side or the other. The news media also is showing signs of bias. This story is important enough to warrant a full investigation. Something went terribly wrong here and there will be repercussions. The facts need to be diseminated.

reply to post by AllIsOne


As far as i know the 9-19 dead are already in bags, the woonded are in hospital and the rest are expecting the isra-hell goverment to send them back to their origins. Don't know when they are going to do that.

reply to post by Maxmars
[more


Thank you.

reply to post by makeitso


I don't see anywhere in this text "international waters" have been mentioned.
Access to Gaza? How many hundred miles from Gaza?

reply to post by Maxmars


Sorry dude, but epic fail.

With too many words you're trying to justify piracy

reply to post by makeitso


All well and good.


EXCEPT!


The "Suspected" vessel was STILL IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS and had not yet even approached the so-call blockade.

Furthermore, as has been previously stated, the aid ships had ALL been searched and their passengers and cargeo vetted by Turkish authorities BEFORE they set sail.



Sorry, but we can read the law too!

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by Maxmars

 

Sorry dude, but epic fail.

With too many words you're trying to justify piracy

Piracy? They looted the ship? They are holding people for ransom? Or is this a political act against the nation of.... of who?

Originally posted by Maxmars

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by Maxmars

 

Sorry dude, but epic fail.

With too many words you're trying to justify piracy

Piracy? They looted the ship? They are holding people for ransom? Or is this a political act against the nation of.... of who?

They killed them.

Originally posted by Maxmars

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by Maxmars

 

Sorry dude, but epic fail.

With too many words you're trying to justify piracy

Piracy? They looted the ship? They are holding people for ransom? Or is this a political act against the nation of.... of who?

The IDF commandoes boarding those ships were operating under which INTERNATIONAL LAW? Can you clarify that for me?

Originally posted by DangerDeath

Originally posted by Maxmars

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by Maxmars

 

Sorry dude, but epic fail.

With too many words you're trying to justify piracy

Piracy? They looted the ship? They are holding people for ransom? Or is this a political act against the nation of.... of who?

They killed them.

R.I.P.

reply to post by Maxmars


As the act occurred in international waters and was carrying politicians from various countries, it is considered an act of piracy at the least and an act of war against the countries involved at the worst.

The best comparison I can make would be Somalia blockading the Persian gulf, hijacking oil tankers, and then charging the owners with blockade running.

Israel has zero claim to the waters surrounding Gaza, and their blockade has long been considered illegal under international law.

Hence why I am very concerned about this situation. They committed a de-facto act of war.

reply to post by Maxmars


Not an expert in maritime law, but...


Siezing control of a private vessel on the high seas, in international waters, by use of force. Assulting the crew and passengers of said vessel to secure such control, up to an including the use of deadly force. Removing the cargo of said vessel without permission (even if you "promise" to deliver to its intended recipient) while holding the passengers and crew of said vessel in confinement, against their will...



That pretty much sums up a decent definition of "Piracy" to me!

reply to post by D.E.M.


Yep!

But I can't figure out why the IDF are acting so recklessly? Those are smart people at the top. They should know better than to make such a blatant mistake. It looks to me like a Hail-Mary Play. Do they know that Turkey gave Iran uranium for their nukes?

Max, if i got your point, i would agree that this act, on Israel's behalf, is just a beginning. I'm not the expert to say, but that's my opinion also. Check the other thread about Israell's nuc subs. Might fill some gaps.
The Israellys are eating there guts to start the third one

Originally posted by DangerDeath
They don't dare take the "bait"

because the "communist" controlled western media waits for the official "line" to be drawn

i see the lol and when i first came across people saying the zionists controlled the congress i thought they were taking the piss and americans would never stand for this.

Convinced i was right i looked for evidance and this path lead me to look at who runs the press.

Today i watch news from all over the place because i knew i had been conned by western media.

History has been made today and the world is turning and it's not muslim terrorists or reds under the bed but the zionists that will be fighting on the back foot for once.

reply to post by D.E.M.


However, under international law, policing trade routes is acceptable, and often, international efforts are carried out in these waters. With the bogey man of 'terrorism' to bolster their bravado, this charge will not stick. Especially since Israel never concealed it's intentions regarding shipments to Gaza. As such the very act of carrying out such a relief effort without Israel's consent could ALSO be considered a provocation and thus an act of war.

I am not saying it was. But you have to expect the opposite perspective to counter the objections.

I am not sure I understand what reasonable person would carry out such an act; but clearly it was done, and petty reasons of personality or tribalistic antagonism seems like a weak excuse.

I dare not take a side in this matter without qualifying that I do so as an intellectual exercise. Personally, I don't think the deaths were warranted based upon what I have seen; but I know that we are often not told the whole story... especially as events unfold.

I think this is shameful example.... but I reserve the right to refrain from saying of what.