Reason Number One Arizona's Law is an Attack on US Citizens.

Originally posted by EyesWideShut

Originally posted by WARhampster
If Obama did his job and secured the borders like he's supose to then there would have never been a need to make this law.

[edit on 22-5-2010 by WARhampster]

Yeah , because we all know that the borders were sealed shut prior to Obama being in office

Stop being a lemming and go educate yourself. You are being spoon fed your beliefs and you don't even realize it. You gotta stop letting the television think for you Bud.

lol as stated earlier by another poster, its not about if they were sealed shut prior to. They arnt shut now are they? we can go through many a problems in america and play the blame game, its not about bush or clinton or anyone else, everyone knows they screwed up large on almost everything they ever did, its the fact that they arnt being fixed now

Can "illegal" immigrants even get a license? I know in Texas if you do not have I.D. on you, they take u in and hold you until they figure out who you are.

I think it's ridiculous that people are complaining about ILLEGAL immigrants being cracked down on. Earlier today me and my girlfriend went and applied for a maintenance and housekeeping job, they were looking for a couple to live on site. There was a hispanic couple in there also applying for the same job, my gf has a lot of experience in housekeeping and I have experience in hotel maintenance, dunno about the other couple - who do u think will get it?

The Supreme Court has ruled that you can be compelled to identify yourself to the police. This does not mean that you are required to carry it with you, it just means that you have to be able to produce it in a reasonable amount of time.

There is nothing new in Arizona's law. Local and State police have always been able to enforce Federal laws including immigration laws.

Some of you need to look up the meaning of "vagrancy" and read the laws associated with it.

is there anything in this bill that the federal gov't isn't allowed to do?
I mean, can federal authorities come to you and ask you to prove your citizenship? if so, think maybe they might not be just as apt to do a little racial profiling as the state authorities? the argument seems to be a little...I don't know, dumb??
the local officials would have a better grasp over who has been in their area all their lives, and who would be new to the area (possible illegals!!) than the federal government would. seems to me, since they know their communities and such, there'd be less of a hassle to those established in their communities??
do people actually trust the federal government not to overstep their authority more than their state and local governments???



[edit on 22-5-2010 by dawnstar]

The powers that be have finally found a way to gain more control over it's citizens, track them, and make them love it. Brilliant!

It followed the same pattern as the Patriot Act. "Have a terrorist attack and the public will be begging to have their rights and privacy eroded away!"

ATSers, conspiracy theorists, conservatives, and even libertarians all are falling in line to this privacy intrusion, and a more powerful police state.

Remember warrantless wiretapping? Some people said it was unconstitutional, but most people said, "If you ain't guilty of terrorism you shouldn't care if the government is listening." or " I don't mind giving up a little freedom to catch terrorists."

Now they shine a bright light on another threat to the US. Illegal immigrants. They have always been here. We all know why they are coming. We all know the solutions to the problem and so does the government, but they won't fix it. Instead they use it to take away rights and privacy. Is it coming into focus now?

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by SpectreDC

you should have your license or proof of residency on you at all times or your in # anyway.

I don't carry either with me unless I need to use it. I must be an illegal!

I see this answer from a good number of people here in they do not normally carry ID.

So just what are you doing with no ID and maybe no money on you?

Where did I say I don't carry money with me? I said I don't carry ID with me most of the time unless I know I will need it.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by SpectreDC

you should have your license or proof of residency on you at all times or your in # anyway.

I don't carry either with me unless I need to use it. I must be an illegal!

I see this answer from a good number of people here in they do not normally carry ID.

So just what are you doing with no ID and maybe no money on you? Do you just hang out somewhere with nothing in your pockets? When I leave the house I put my wallet and phone in my pockets, and about the only time I don't is when I go jogging or I’m in my yard since I typically need to drive anywhere pass my neighborhood.

And since YOU personally decide to carry all that stuff, that means that the rest of society should also, right? how did YOU become the guy who decides what the rest of us are supposed to do?

You no doubt live in an area where you can jog without cops harrassing you; many people are not as lucky, and have to live in poor areas, where the cops routinely demand ID for NO reason from people who are doing nothing more than walking down a street. if you are young, of color, and live in a high crime area...so called..then the cops believe they can demand ID...and they cannot legally do so.

I guarantee you that you would sing a whole new tune if you were out jogging and a cop busted you for ' fleeing' and ' eluding' and ran you in because you had no ID....they always find an excuse, the dirty dogs..and as soon as YOu become a victim of the cops, you will see what millions of others go thru to satisfy some cops need for numbers..

Since you have no problem showing you are innocent, I suppose you also will allow the cops to put cameras in your bedroom and abthrooms..right? After all, you have nothing to hide? Right/ That way the cops can make sure you are law abiding...and that is what it comes to when we let them get away with the smallest things....cops always take every little opening to expand their authority and blustering...they would have NO warrants and NO miranda if left to them...they want to be our Gods...and we have to make sure they never succeed.

And Bush when he failed to secure the borders with both a republican congress and democratic one....

And Clinton...

And Bush's father...

And Reagan...

Hmm, seems to be a trend amongst US presidents.
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read above


So how far deep did your arm go into your ass until you could pull that out of it?
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as i said, One of the only complaints i keep hearing about this law is mainly from Mexicans and middle-easterners.



So the problem is the drug war we're waging which creates the black market for these substances, right?
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its not the sole problem, its a big part of it



Oh so the problem is ALL immigrants now?
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im sorry what were we talking about...



What tipped you off to this, the part where they are called illegal immigrants?
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SO IF WERE BOTH IN AGREEMENT HERE THAT ITS ILLEGAL TO BE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT(LAWL) WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION?




Good to know you support discrimination from the police.
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i dont support discrimination from the police, show me where i have supported it? i said they wont discriminate anymore then they do now




I don't carry either with me unless I need to use it. I must be an illegal!
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well if you dont want to carry your id it will be hard for a police officer to run your name in their database to check for warrents ..
if you dont carry any id or any type of id on you then you must have a pretty boring life, cant buy smokes or alcohol, cant get into a bar, cant sign up for video store membership, bank account, credit cards.. i can go on and on, lets be more mature here my friend...

Wow. Yet another ignoramus who hasn't read the law. You know, it's available as a PDF file online. That's where I got it and READ IT.

READ IT before posting this kind of nonsense.

Originally posted by I.C. Weiner
Can "illegal" immigrants even get a license? I know in Texas if you do not have I.D. on you, they take u in and hold you until they figure out who you are.

I think it's ridiculous that people are complaining about ILLEGAL immigrants being cracked down on. Earlier today me and my girlfriend went and applied for a maintenance and housekeeping job, they were looking for a couple to live on site. There was a hispanic couple in there also applying for the same job, my gf has a lot of experience in housekeeping and I have experience in hotel maintenance, dunno about the other couple - who do u think will get it?

Illegals can get a license in New Mexico because the whole state is pretty much a sanctuary for illegals, regardless of the posturing by Richardson who sent some guard troops to the border to help out. The license issue is a hot topic in the gubernatorial race right now. The next Governor (a Republican) will be remedying this issue. So all you illlegals (like they're reading this), get your NM license while you can.


Cripes, can't type anything right the first time.

[edit on 22-5-2010 by AwakeinNM]

Originally posted by WARhampster
as i said, One of the only complaints i keep hearing about this law is mainly from Mexicans and middle-easterners.

And I guess I'll have to say it again, how far into your nether regions did you have to traverse to make this inference? Can you see people through the screen? Are you saying this mainly from your own real life experiences? Elaborate where you are getting your point from or I'll have to assume it was from your bowels.

im sorry what were we talking about...

Likely where you said immigrants in general are causing problems and did not specify whether they were illegal immigrants or not.

SO IF WERE BOTH IN AGREEMENT HERE THAT ITS ILLEGAL TO BE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT(LAWL) WHY ARE WE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION?

Because you people like having ten thousand threads on the subject and believe that just because someone else believes illegal immigration is a problem that they believe the same exact thing as you do when that is far from the case?

i dont support discrimination from the police, show me where i have supported it?

Likely where you said it was justified.

i can go on and on, lets be more mature here my friend...

A sign of maturity could be seen as the ability to read comprehensibly. Like where I said I don't carry I.D. unless, and he is the kicker, I need it.

See the identifier there? UNLESS and NEED? It means if I'm going out and I do plan on doing something in which an I.D. is required, I bring it with me. It is pretty clear cut and yet you can't read it. Are you an illegal by any chance? You MUST be since you don't seem to be able to read English.

bad post, if anything it is only helping americans. lets face it the states hate having the federal government do anything that interfers with them. the opposite is true in this case and they are actually asking the feds to fix the problem and do its job. nice swipe at white america, traditional and tasteless, also its racist! this is the type of thing that is resparking a new racial barrier in america! in reality the only thing illegals do is lower wages of the regular american working class

Originally posted by richierich

And since YOU personally decide to carry all that stuff, that means that the rest of society should also, right? how did YOU become the guy who decides what the rest of us are supposed to do?

Well no reason to "yell" YOU at me and I fail to see me pushing anything on anyone. My question stands in my curiosity as to what does a person do with nothing on them.

You no doubt live in an area where you can jog without cops harrassing you; many people are not as lucky, and have to live in poor areas, where the cops routinely demand ID for NO reason from people who are doing nothing more than walking down a street. if you are young, of color, and live in a high crime area...so called..then the cops believe they can demand ID...and they cannot legally do so.

I agree, so you do not carry anything because you are enforcing your rights not to? Also what does this have anything to do with the AZ law in that it forbids this type of action you describe, and as you said, cops were doing it anyway long before the law came about, so if the cops do it now it is still not right to do, and if anything this law will reduce that type of profiling since it now makes the whole issue sensitive and under the view of everyone.

I guarantee you that you would sing a whole new tune if you were out jogging and a cop busted you for ' fleeing' and ' eluding' and ran you in because you had no ID....they always find an excuse, the dirty dogs..and as soon as YOu become a victim of the cops, you will see what millions of others go thru to satisfy some cops need for numbers..

So do the cops in your neighborhood do this because they hate brown people, or do they do it because most of the time the person is not jogging but actually fleeing. Do the cops in your neighborhood have arrest quotas that the ones in my neighborhood do not? Once again this law cannot make your situation worst and will only make it better as I said above.

You hate the cops because you live in a bad neighborhood, and just maybe it is your neighborhood causing it all…

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Where did I say I don't carry money with me? I said I don't carry ID with me most of the time unless I know I will need it.

So you go out with no need to drive anywhere and wad your money up in your front pocket? I really feel that sometimes I'm debating against a twelve year old, since that is basically what my kids might do…hehe

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
Reason Number One Arizona's Law is an Attack on US Citizens:

An American Citizen that looks Hispanic/Asian/Middle-Eastern will be stop by the police and asked to show documents.( AKA Police Sate)

Simple as that , this Law is a direct attack on American Citizens (and THEY ARE protected by the constitution).

(But I'm sure white-middle America doesn't care because it does not affect them)

Link

[edit on 22-5-2010 by WXBackdoor]

1st of all the law states that you can only be stopped if you are in violation of an existing law. Being a different nationality is not a violation.

Any person with a valid Drivers license or ID will have nothing to worry about. The people that have problems with this law don't have these items.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Where did I say I don't carry money with me? I said I don't carry ID with me most of the time unless I know I will need it.

So you go out with no need to drive anywhere and wad your money up in your front pocket? I really feel that sometimes I'm debating against a twelve year old, since that is basically what my kids might do…hehe

I love how you're making personal attacks considering you're the one pulling assumptions out of your ass based off of how you typically do things. And you call me a twelve year old

Lets see, I go out without the need to drive anywhere because I live in an area where I do not need to drive and unless I'm carrying lots of money on me, I don't bring my wallet with me. You know, it is possible to simply fold a few bills in half and neatly put it in your pocket.

The AZ law is telling AZ LEO's to enforce Federal immigration laws .

The laws are on the federal register already AZ is just telling its officers to do the job the feds are failing at .

So much is being said about what the bill is and what it really does with out knowledge of whats really in it . These statements are hearsay and plain old gossip and misinformed statements to make a political brownie points.

Follow the creed of ATS

deny ignorance

azgovernor.gov...

Please follow the link above and read it .

At least then you have done something the President nor the attorney general nor the head of home land security department have done . Then you can make a qualified statement about it.

reply to post by Xtrozero


You assumed incorectly that I personally live in a ' neighborhood, and am of color. Both are wrong. I live in the mountains and there are virtually no people of color here, unless you include mexicans, which have migrated here looking for work like most of them. I simply have a great deal of life experience and education, and know what is real, even though I may not live in the midst of it. my eyes are open, and that is all that is needed.

The point is that when we empower the cops above the minimum needed for keeping the peace, we ask for trouble. Cops cannot be trusted to limit themselves to the legal limits...they always try and exceed them and push for ever more draconian and intrusive laws so they can ' protect ' us better; that means so they can bust as many people as possible with as little oversight as possible.

If cops are allowed to demand ID from people who APPEAR to be ' foreign' then we will see a massive number of false arrests, as cops target anyone with dark skin or that does not speak perfect English. Many legal Americans will find out that the cops are not their friends when they have to prove to some flatfoot that they are legal...the cops are supposed to prove guilt, but they insist that we prove that we are who we say we are!!

Cops have the nerve to insinuate that we are all liars....they say that we need to prove to them that we are really who we claim to be. That is totally wrong, and illegal. if the cops have no probable cause to believe that you are anyone OTHER than who you claim to be, then let them prove it!! Let them prove that we are lying; we need not prove we are telling the truth. Cops, the worst liars on earth...men and women who lie day in and out as a normal part of life..these paid liars are bold enough to doubt OUR word? The nerve...the gaul..the brazen liars say WE are to be suspect.

It is COPS who are suspect...at every turn, in every venture, no matter what..and we better remember that. They are out for numbers, and we are nothing more to them than an opportunity for another notch in their gun.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Lets see, I go out without the need to drive anywhere because I live in an area where I do not need to drive and unless I'm carrying lots of money on me, I don't bring my wallet with me. You know, it is possible to simply fold a few bills in half and neatly put it in your pocket.

I don't carry much cash anymore since I don't like a pocket full of coins, so a debit card works fine for me. So please answer my question in what does a person typically do with this frequent practice of nothing but a few bucks in their pocket?

BTW I'm not calling you a twelve year old, I just said that the picture of someone with nothing but some cash in their pocket reminds me of my kids.

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
Reason Number One Arizona's Law is an Attack on US Citizens:

An American Citizen that looks Hispanic/Asian/Middle-Eastern will be stop by the police and asked to show documents.( AKA Police Sate)

Simple as that , this Law is a direct attack on American Citizens (and THEY ARE protected by the constitution).

(But I'm sure white-middle America doesn't care because it does not affect them)

Link

[edit on 22-5-2010 by WXBackdoor]

Apparently you are not familiar with the laws already that state any time a cop asks to see your ID for any reason, you must produce it.

No where in the U.S. constitution does it say you do not have to show ID when asked by law Enforcement.

So What? So Mexican looking Americans may get ID'd more often. They should be proud to do that and show they are not the ones causing and contributing the problem.