Probably brought to you brought to you by the good old traitors in the US government.


Could only imagine which politicians sold them this tech.

Guys no need to panic: everyone involved in the 5th Gen game soon learns that it's going to cost a LOT more, take a LOT longer to develop and likely will perform a LITTLE less spectcaularly than the original specs called for.

Originally posted by NightoftheComet
Probably brought to you brought to you by the good old traitors in the US government.
Could only imagine which politicians sold them this tech.

Or maybe they built it themselves and stole information in order that their aircraft is built to specs that rival the F-22's current edge over other aircraft..

Doesn't have to be a failure on the US part; could be interpreted as a successful swipe by the Chinese.

If a new Chinese 5th gen fighter AC is expected by 2018, then we should get to see the prototypes appearing in the comming 2 to 5 years.

But i realy doubt that the Chinese have the abillity to actualy build such an extreemly advanced AC.

Case in point: The apparant failing in constructing a copy of an engine (The WS10) that has technology dating as far back as the 80's (The ALF-31 being the source of the tech.)

If the Chinese cant even build something that is tech wise "old" then what about new engine tech like the ALF-41? The 117/S? Or better yet, the F119, F135 and the new engine destined to be PAK FA's definitive engine?

Other points of concern is the utter lack of stealth tech expirience by Chinese aircraft builders.

Sukhoi has expirience with the Su-47 and it can call upon help from the MiG 1.44 MFI engineers. Not mentioning the US ofcourse, who is obviously the leader of radar stealth.

In short: If China wants to be competitive, it should skip a generation and be devoted on making UCAV's and try to master some skills it never even touched before like making actual stealth airframes from the start and learning how to build a good fighter jet engine.

Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood
Other points of concern is the utter lack of stealth tech expirience by Chinese aircraft builders.

You have to start from nowhere to get somewhere. Lockheed didn't have any experience before the F-117. Northrop didn't have any before the B-2. Boeing didn't have any going into the JSF competition.

Sukhoi has expirience with the Su-47 and it can call upon help from the MiG 1.44 MFI engineers. Not mentioning the US ofcourse, who is obviously the leader of radar stealth.

Sukhoi and MiG are like Boeing and Lockheed - unless they pair as prime- and sub-contractor on a program, they ain't going to be 'calling on' one another for help. They are competing commercial entities.

Hey RichardPrice,

Originally posted by RichardPriceYou have to start from nowhere to get somewhere. Lockheed didn't have any experience before the F-117. Northrop didn't have any before the B-2. Boeing didn't have any going into the JSF competition.

But it took years and years to master that kind of technology and years and years the Chinese dont have if they want to introduce a 5th gen fighter AC before 2020.

Sukhoi and MiG are like Boeing and Lockheed - unless they pair as prime- and sub-contractor on a program, they ain't going to be 'calling on' one another for help. They are competing commercial entities.

That might have been true in the 90's and the first half of the 2000's but not today because MiG and Sukhoi are now part of UAC (Unified Aerospace Cooperation). So now they are in a position to help each other in technical ways.

Anyways, thanks for your insight and good criticism.

Hello djvexd,

Originally posted by djvexdChina didn't have to start form nowhere. Bosnia. The Russians and the Chinese bought up all the salvagable tech they could. While they may not be able to understand or reproduce the manufacturing techniques, the basics are there.

I was under the impression that only Russia bought the wreckage of the F-117 and not China.

Asides that, the materials used on the F-117 are in todays standards of radar stealth technology inferiour. So the Chinese would have a small base but to actualy get 5th gen tech, they need to do a lot on their own strength to achieve technological parity.

Thanks for the reply though

Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood

I was under the impression that only Russia bought the wreckage of the F-117 and not China.

A very popular conspiracy theory is that the Chinese Embassy bombed in the same war (May 10th 1999) was bombed by NATO/US forces intentionally because it contained components of the F-117 that was shot down just over a month back (March 28? 1999).

There! My first conspiracy-oriented post on ATS in the 6 years I've been here!

Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood
Hey RichardPrice,

Originally posted by RichardPriceYou have to start from nowhere to get somewhere. Lockheed didn't have any experience before the F-117. Northrop didn't have any before the B-2. Boeing didn't have any going into the JSF competition.

But it took years and years to master that kind of technology and years and years the Chinese dont have if they want to introduce a 5th gen fighter AC before 2020.

No, once the technology is introduced by one country then it is the current level for other major powers to start off at aswell. This is due to a lot of factors, ie intel, corporate espianage, analysis... My point is that if China plans to introduce a new stealth fighter soon then it will be adequate for the 5th generation. It's not like they're just going to test a copy of F117 wreckage.

Originally posted by Daedalus3A very popular conspiracy theory is that the Chinese Embassy bombed in the same war (May 10th 1999) was bombed by NATO/US forces intentionally because it contained components of the F-117 that was shot down just over a month back (March 28? 1999).

There! My first conspiracy-oriented post on ATS in the 6 years I've been here!

Nice job daedalus!

But why would those parts be at the Chinese embassy? Why would Serbia sell parts too to the Chinese? Considering that Serbia and Russia have an almost brotherly like relationship with each other. i have to conclude that Russia is the only country that bought those remains.

I dont see China having Tupolev 160 bomber copy's. I dont see China having Carriers. I dont see China having 5th gen fighters in the future.

So I dont think China sees the need for long range strategic bombing of its foes (America) where as the US and CCCP have required that capability traditionally due to their respective geographic locations and capabilities.

China could see the need to conduct deep interdiction bombing into the farthest reaches of India and perhaps even Oz, but I think they have that covered with saturation levels of IRBMS/MRBMs and proxy/buffer states.

They seem to be actively pursuing a carrier program that apparently is to bear fruit in the next decade (this one).

5th fighters are of utmost importance to them because even now, almost all its foes/neighbors have fighter capability that exceeds their own (not in quantity but quality).