New Chinese fighter jet expected by 2018: U.S. intelligence

(Reuters) - China is building an advanced combat jet that may rival within eight years Lockheed Martin Corp's F-22 Raptor, the premier U.S. fighter, a U.S. intelligence official said.

Reuters

It looks like China's fifth-generation fighter will be ready long before anyone thought.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates had said last year that China "is projected to have no fifth-generation aircraft by 2020" and only a "handful" by 2025.

I wonder if this is referencing the J-XX model at GlobalSecurity.Org ?

Probably brought to you brought to you by the good old traitors in the US government.


Could only imagine which politicians sold them this tech.

reply to post by NightoftheComet


That could be.

I guess we will find out how true that is when we first get some pics of it. If it's a mirror image of the Raptor, then...

Guys no need to panic: everyone involved in the 5th Gen game soon learns that it's going to cost a LOT more, take a LOT longer to develop and likely will perform a LITTLE less spectcaularly than the original specs called for.

reply to post by Borys


J-xx is a perty concept though the size of it in the GS concept pictures kind of makes me think it may not be as maneuverable as the raptor. It's size is more fitting for a tactical bomber aircraft.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by djvexd]

Originally posted by NightoftheComet
Probably brought to you brought to you by the good old traitors in the US government.

Could only imagine which politicians sold them this tech.

Or maybe they built it themselves and stole information in order that their aircraft is built to specs that rival the F-22's current edge over other aircraft..

Doesn't have to be a failure on the US part; could be interpreted as a successful swipe by the Chinese.

If a new Chinese 5th gen fighter AC is expected by 2018, then we should get to see the prototypes appearing in the comming 2 to 5 years.

But i realy doubt that the Chinese have the abillity to actualy build such an extreemly advanced AC.

Case in point: The apparant failing in constructing a copy of an engine (The WS10) that has technology dating as far back as the 80's (The ALF-31 being the source of the tech.)

If the Chinese cant even build something that is tech wise "old" then what about new engine tech like the ALF-41? The 117/S? Or better yet, the F119, F135 and the new engine destined to be PAK FA's definitive engine?

Other points of concern is the utter lack of stealth tech expirience by Chinese aircraft builders.

Sukhoi has expirience with the Su-47 and it can call upon help from the MiG 1.44 MFI engineers. Not mentioning the US ofcourse, who is obviously the leader of radar stealth.

In short: If China wants to be competitive, it should skip a generation and be devoted on making UCAV's and try to master some skills it never even touched before like making actual stealth airframes from the start and learning how to build a good fighter jet engine.

Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood
Other points of concern is the utter lack of stealth tech expirience by Chinese aircraft builders.

You have to start from nowhere to get somewhere. Lockheed didn't have any experience before the F-117. Northrop didn't have any before the B-2. Boeing didn't have any going into the JSF competition.

Sukhoi has expirience with the Su-47 and it can call upon help from the MiG 1.44 MFI engineers. Not mentioning the US ofcourse, who is obviously the leader of radar stealth.

Sukhoi and MiG are like Boeing and Lockheed - unless they pair as prime- and sub-contractor on a program, they ain't going to be 'calling on' one another for help. They are competing commercial entities.

reply to post by James R. Hawkwood


China didn't have to start form nowhere. Bosnia. The Russians and the Chinese bought up all the salvagable tech they could. While they may not be able to understand or reproduce the manufacturing techniques, the basics are there.

Hey RichardPrice,

Originally posted by RichardPriceYou have to start from nowhere to get somewhere. Lockheed didn't have any experience before the F-117. Northrop didn't have any before the B-2. Boeing didn't have any going into the JSF competition.

But it took years and years to master that kind of technology and years and years the Chinese dont have if they want to introduce a 5th gen fighter AC before 2020.

Sukhoi and MiG are like Boeing and Lockheed - unless they pair as prime- and sub-contractor on a program, they ain't going to be 'calling on' one another for help. They are competing commercial entities.

That might have been true in the 90's and the first half of the 2000's but not today because MiG and Sukhoi are now part of UAC (Unified Aerospace Cooperation). So now they are in a position to help each other in technical ways.

Anyways, thanks for your insight and good criticism.

Hello djvexd,

Originally posted by djvexdChina didn't have to start form nowhere. Bosnia. The Russians and the Chinese bought up all the salvagable tech they could. While they may not be able to understand or reproduce the manufacturing techniques, the basics are there.

I was under the impression that only Russia bought the wreckage of the F-117 and not China.

Asides that, the materials used on the F-117 are in todays standards of radar stealth technology inferiour. So the Chinese would have a small base but to actualy get 5th gen tech, they need to do a lot on their own strength to achieve technological parity.

Thanks for the reply though

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Sukhoi and MiG are like Boeing and Lockheed - unless they pair as prime- and sub-contractor on a program, they ain't going to be 'calling on' one another for help. They are competing commercial entities.

Not anymore and for some time?

www.flightglobal.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood

I was under the impression that only Russia bought the wreckage of the F-117 and not China.

A very popular conspiracy theory is that the Chinese Embassy bombed in the same war (May 10th 1999) was bombed by NATO/US forces intentionally because it contained components of the F-117 that was shot down just over a month back (March 28? 1999).

There! My first conspiracy-oriented post on ATS in the 6 years I've been here!

Just out of curiosity, could the Chinese have nabbed any of the info on this technology during one of their many hacks or attempts at hacks on pentagon or other defense contractor computers? It is pretty common knowledge they have at least been trying from that angle, and I think they may have even partially succeeded a couple of times.

Source

Originally posted by James R. Hawkwood
Hey RichardPrice,

Originally posted by RichardPriceYou have to start from nowhere to get somewhere. Lockheed didn't have any experience before the F-117. Northrop didn't have any before the B-2. Boeing didn't have any going into the JSF competition.

But it took years and years to master that kind of technology and years and years the Chinese dont have if they want to introduce a 5th gen fighter AC before 2020.

No, once the technology is introduced by one country then it is the current level for other major powers to start off at aswell. This is due to a lot of factors, ie intel, corporate espianage, analysis... My point is that if China plans to introduce a new stealth fighter soon then it will be adequate for the 5th generation. It's not like they're just going to test a copy of F117 wreckage.

reply to post by James R. Hawkwood


Black market is still alive and well in Russia, which is how China now gets a majority of thier Russian tech. The official channels pretty much dried up at the end of the Soviet era, however money talks.

Originally posted by Daedalus3A very popular conspiracy theory is that the Chinese Embassy bombed in the same war (May 10th 1999) was bombed by NATO/US forces intentionally because it contained components of the F-117 that was shot down just over a month back (March 28? 1999).

There! My first conspiracy-oriented post on ATS in the 6 years I've been here!

Nice job daedalus!

But why would those parts be at the Chinese embassy? Why would Serbia sell parts too to the Chinese? Considering that Serbia and Russia have an almost brotherly like relationship with each other. i have to conclude that Russia is the only country that bought those remains.

Originally posted by djvexdBlack market is still alive and well in Russia, which is how China now gets a majority of thier Russian tech. The official channels pretty much dried up at the end of the Soviet era, however money talks.

Money talks indeed and its pathetic to even downright retarded that China needs to buy tech to advance instead of researching it themselves.

Asides that, If they can buy the tech, why cant they build it? Where are the ALF-31 engines with ALF-41 core components? (Example is the ALF-37 or 117S).

In other news it was stated they couldnt even build WS-10 engines (ALF-31 rip-offs) to power their J-11B's... (Su-27)

So maybe you are right, maybe they have the tech but they apparantly dont know what to do with that tech, they havent learnt it themselves and thats why they # it up with even the most basic of all modern jet engines. 5th gen before 2020? Dont make me laugh.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
No, once the technology is introduced by one country then it is the current level for other major powers to start off at aswell. This is due to a lot of factors, ie intel, corporate espianage, analysis... My point is that if China plans to introduce a new stealth fighter soon then it will be adequate for the 5th generation. It's not like they're just going to test a copy of F117 wreckage.

Oh yes, they have to steal...

Also the assumption that once a country has attained a certain type of technology that other countries can just steal and use it is wrong, Very, VERY wrong.

I dont see China having Tupolev 160 bomber copy's. I dont see China having Carriers. I dont see China having 5th gen fighters in the future.

China produces Tu-16 badger bombers for god sake!! Russia is advancing towards building the PAK DA and USA has the 2018 and 2034 bomber projects and they themselves have TU-160 and B-2 bombers!

By your logic, China would at the very least produce B-1B copy's but they dont.

Originally posted by Wayne60
Just out of curiosity, could the Chinese have nabbed any of the info on this technology during one of their many hacks or attempts at hacks on pentagon or other defense contractor computers? It is pretty common knowledge they have at least been trying from that angle, and I think they may have even partially succeeded a couple of times.

Source

Ok they have the tech info.

Now what? Produce it? With what tools?

I am sure China has all the info about the ALF-41 engines but can they build them? No, they cannot. They dont know how to build them even though they have the specifications. Example is the shoddy, crappy WS-10 engines who are badly manufactured.

----

Point is, even if China has the knowledge, they dont have the skills and tools to realise the idea's that they have.

reply to post by James R. Hawkwood


who knows! Maybe they were all having a looksee together and chinese possession seemed to be safer (neutral/inaccessible?) than Russian/Serbian in a Serbian-NATO war?

I dont see China having Tupolev 160 bomber copy's. I dont see China having Carriers. I dont see China having 5th gen fighters in the future.

So I dont think China sees the need for long range strategic bombing of its foes (America) where as the US and CCCP have required that capability traditionally due to their respective geographic locations and capabilities.

China could see the need to conduct deep interdiction bombing into the farthest reaches of India and perhaps even Oz, but I think they have that covered with saturation levels of IRBMS/MRBMs and proxy/buffer states.

They seem to be actively pursuing a carrier program that apparently is to bear fruit in the next decade (this one).

5th fighters are of utmost importance to them because even now, almost all its foes/neighbors have fighter capability that exceeds their own (not in quantity but quality).