Pakistan court orders block of Facebook over caricatures

Pakistan court orders block of Facebook over caricatures

news.yahoo.com

LAHORE, Pakistan (Reuters) – A Pakistani court ordered the government on Wednesday to block Facebook after press reports of a competition being held to draw the Prophet Mohammad, a lawyer said.

(visit the link for the full news article)

You could argue that our reaction to their threats of violence, towards the Southpark creators, at least doesn't involve blowing things up or threatening people...

Now you could also say that it is a stupid thing to do to antagonize an entire religion with childish cartoons because of the threats of a few.

What do you think?

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

If Muslims think that depicting Mohammed is blasphemous, then fine for them. But i'm not Muslim so I should be able to draw Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, whoever the hell i want. Because i'm (supposedly) a free person in a free country that's not religious. So their laws of blasphemy should not apply to me.

So i think we should stop the madness by having lots and lots of depictions of Mohammed all the time. They can't threaten all of us right? And it's only a very very few Muslims who actually get annoyed at this anyway and majority will say 'that's blasphemous, but oh well....'.

So i'm glad facebook did this. If people are offended then they have the freedom to not go onto facebook. But don't block others from making that choice.

I think ATS should have a draw Mohammed competition. Here's my entry:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/92acef0efccc.gif[/atsimg]

Anyone offended yet?

reply to post by Nammu


You forgot the beard and Don't think he was that tall.


Seriously censorship just sucks!

Originally posted by Nammu
If Muslims think that depicting Mohammed is blasphemous, then fine for them. But i'm not Muslim so I should be able to draw Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, whoever the hell i want. Because i'm (supposedly) a free person in a free country that's not religious. So their laws of blasphemy should not apply to me.

You are absolutely correct but because you can does that mean you should?
I think that intentionally insulting others with whom you do not agree is kind of childish and not really productive.

If these extremists start to threat over something they do not agree with, isn't the best solution (like with ATS trolls) to ignore them? The more attention you give these idiots the better it is for their goal.

it's only a very very few Muslims who actually get annoyed at this anyway and majority will say 'that's blasphemous, but oh well....'.

But you are still insulting the majority....

So i'm glad facebook did this.

Pakistan governement did this, not FaceBook!!

If people are offended then they have the freedom to not go onto facebook. But don't block others from making that choice.

But what if they do want to go on FaceBook? They can't now, can they? So a lot of people who had nothing to do with this now have to suffer the consequences. That seems fair...

Can we conclude that this "draw Mohamed" action is partially responsible for denying a lot of people their freedom to visit a site like FaceBook?

I think ATS should have a draw Mohammed competition.

We are currently running a "draw an alien" competition but when that finishes we could do your idea...

Anyone offended yet?

There is always somebody offended...

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime

You are absolutely correct but because you can does that mean you should?

It means i have the freedom to choose whether i want to or not. And i can exert that freedom if i so choose. Because i can i should be able to. If i offend them they can offend me. We have a right to offend each other and not blow each other up in the process. That's called 'getting along'.

If these extremists start to threat over something they do not agree with, isn't the best solution (like with ATS trolls) to ignore them? The more attention you give these idiots the better it is for their goal.

Yes, ignoring them would be another method. But that would still keep the subject taboo and it would still be a problem. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

But you are still insulting the majority....

We live in a world where we insult everyone every day. 'Look at what she's wearing', 'Look how fat he is', 'How stupid must he be for belieivng in UFOs', 'How can they believe that stupid religion'. Everyone thinks or says things like this all the time. We are human, so we are critical of those outside our own bubble. The trick is how we deal with it. If you are stong of heart and mind an insult means nothing. It can be annoying but brushed off. It's the weak that over-react to such things.

Pakistan governement did this, not FaceBook!!

I meant that i'm glad facebook held the draw Mohammed competition

But what if they do want to go on FaceBook? They can't now, can they? So a lot of people who had nothing to do with this now have to suffer the consequences. That seems fair...

They don't have to visit that page on facebook, they can ignore or hide posts, or they can not visit the site at all. It's their choice. Banning it completely for everyone is wrong.

Can we conclude that this "draw Mohamed" action is partially responsible for denying a lot of people their freedom to visit a site like FaceBook?

Oh man, here we go with the 'freedom-off'. These keep popping up lately. Look, you need to understand what freedom is and you obviously don't. People should have the freedom to do what they want. Removing one freedom (being able to draw Mohammed on a non-secular global site) to justify people having the freedom to use a site isn't freedom buddy.

Freedom is allowing people to draw Mohammed, and allowing other people to choose whether they go there or not. Anything else is control.

Peace out.

Mocking someones belief says more about yourself than those whom you are mocking.

Regards to all

[edit on 02/05/10 by FeatheredSerpent]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Nammu

 

You forgot the beard and Don't think he was that tall.

Seriously censorship just sucks!

Also forgot the bear suit!

I'm totally free to draw Mohammed, I'm not Muslim or religious in any way, therefore, I cannot commit Blasphemy. Anyway, residing in the UK, it is no longer illegal to blaspheme and it was only ever illegal to blaspheme against the christian religion.

Blasphemy is not regarded as in international law, therefore international restrictions on internet traffic cannot be applied, which means the people who posted this on Facebook are perfectly within their right to do so.

As for insulting them, well I say that I find their beliefs to be insulting. I am insulted by the way they try to instill those beliefs on other cultures and religions. I am insulted by their intollerance of other cultures. I am insulted by the way that if they disagree with something, they simply lock it away from the people and ignore it, or even worse, try to destroy it.

reply to post by Nammu

But i'm not Muslim so I should be able to draw Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, whoever the hell i want.

Are you that petty? Do you just want to exercise Free Speech for the sake of it or do you actually think the founders of the United States fought & died so you could have the luxury to heckle & ridicule other countries from the safety of anonymity, regarding their "perceived" hypersensitivities?

Me, me, me... I want this, I want that.

HOW on earth does this possibly affect one iota of your being?

Using even a modicum of common sense we can see Pakistan is going to filter just ONE offensive URL.
(From the Main Article)

"The PTA's decision (to block the URL) was rational and good, but let's see how they will implement the court decision."

Seriously?

Does this infringe upon YOUR rights to draw "PissChrist" or Danish-Muhammed caricatures or whatever particularly religious group you feel like offending just for the sake of it?
NO.

You can do whatever you like... The majority of Pakistanis simply won't be able to see it.

The fact that you blew up over this and went into a "flag-waving, freedom fighting" tizzy about one country's decision to block an Internet Address that probably 80% of it's population would find offensive speaks volumes about your own insecurities, not Muslims.

So i think we should stop the madness by having lots and lots of depictions of Mohammed all the time.

Boy someone's feeling vulnerable.

So you're all for Freedom of Speech & Expression as long as it coincides with your narrow mindset?

I suppose you wouldn't afford these guys the same rights?


How about the Cuban Government? Whom the US Dept. of Treasury maintains a blacklist of "filtered" websites, who allegedly promote "oppressive material"... like Resort Hotel home pages:
www.nytimes.com...

[edit on 19/5/10 by The Godfather of Conspira]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira



Well said

Regards to all

reply to post by operation mindcrime

Can we conclude that this "draw Mohamed" action is partially responsible for denying a lot of people their freedom to visit a site like FaceBook?

No we cannot conclude that. We can conclude that the closed minded, religiously fanatical law courts of Pakistan are responsible for denying the Pakistani people the freedom to visit facebook. The people who created the "Draw Mohammed" site are practicing their rights to freedom of expression by doing this. They are doing nothing wrong, other than pissing some people off, which if we're talking about freedoms, they have the right to do.

ETA:
Godfather, I missed the part that said they were only blocking the page URL, not the entirety of Facebook, as is implied by the OP. Nice catch.

In this case, the only problem I have is that I generally don't agree with censorship, but if that page infringes Pakistan's blasphemy laws, then they have the right to block it.

[edit on 19-5-2010 by nik1halo]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


I just want everyone to get along. There's nothing petty or offensive about that. I want people to have the freedom to draw whoever they want if they want to. I want people to be able to visit a website if they so choose to without a government telling them what they can and can't do.

What's wrong with that?

reply to post by Nammu

I want people to have the freedom to draw whoever they want if they want to.

Yes you poor, oppressed serf. Woe the pain.

This maybe news to you but the Internet has NEVER been a "Free Speech Zone", and Pakistan is one of several nations (including the United States), that filters it from materials they don't want their public to see.

Again, time to get off the moral high horse.

I want people to be able to visit a website if they so choose to without a government telling them what they can and can't do.

Did you READ the main article?

Again: Pakistan WILL BLOCK ONE URL for the Pakistani TLD DOMAIN ONLY.

How... does... it... affect... YOU?

And people claim Muslims are hypersensitive cry-babies... hilarious.

Go anywhere near Generation Y's social networking sites and you're instantly elevated to the level of Dr. Goebbels.
Bit touchy?

[edit on 19/5/10 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Originally posted by Nammu
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

I meant that i'm glad facebook held the draw Mohammed competition

My bad..

Oh man, here we go with the 'freedom-off'. These keep popping up lately. Look, you need to understand what freedom is and you obviously don't. People should have the freedom to do what they want. Removing one freedom (being able to draw Mohammed on a non-secular global site) to justify people having the freedom to use a site isn't freedom buddy.

Look I am all for a cartoonist drawing something to express his vision. He should be allowed to do so without obstruction. That is freedom of speech..

I am talking about the reaction to the reaction of somebody expressing his freedom of speech. The reason that danish cartoonist draw his picture was because he was trying to express to the world what he thinks. Your drawing lacks this motivation. It's purely intended to insult!! And that is where the difference between freedom of speech and simply insulting lies.

Every right comes with an obligation. The right to freedom of speech comes with the obligation that you do not abuse this right. Going around shouting that all Christians should be burned at the stake is a freedom you have but then you clearly don't understand anything about social interaction.

Freedom is allowing people to draw Mohammed, and allowing other people to choose whether they go there or not. Anything else is control.

Indeed, self-control. It takes self-control to not react to an insult with an insult. Children usually need there entire childhood to learn this basic fact. To say your insults are a form of free-speech is just an excuse to extend this childish behavior into your adulthood...

Please stop raping a right that clearly wasn't created as an excuse to insult others.

Peace

Originally posted by Nammu
reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira

 

I just want everyone to get along. There's nothing petty or offensive about that. I want people to have the freedom to draw whoever they want if they want to. I want people to be able to visit a website if they so choose to without a government telling them what they can and can't do.

What's wrong with that?

Nothing.

But I just came from visiting this facebook page.

I am APPALLED.

There are HUNDREDS of PORNOGRAPHIC photos, obscene, inhumane photos posted there.

Literally, like 70% of people are USING this page now to post appalling photos and comments.

They post a photo of a muslim iraqi/palestinian old man, holding his little dead daughter SHREDDED to pieces - and they made a comic out of it, making the man say "who will I **** now?" implying you know what.

The picture literally made me cry. And made me angry.

But there is God and they will all be brought to Justice before Him.

[edit on 5/19/2010 by skajkingdom]

reply to post by skajkingdom


No no, according to some this is called freedom of speech...

Just wait till we have to fight for our lives for this right (again). Maybe then people will remember what it is for...

Peace

[edit on 19-5-2010 by operation mindcrime]

Originally posted by Nammu

 

I just want everyone to get along. There's nothing petty or offensive about that. I want people to have the freedom to draw whoever they want if they want to. I want people to be able to visit a website if they so choose to without a government telling them what they can and can't do.

What's wrong with that?

Nothing...absolutely nothing is wrong with that. But this facebook competition is merely a reaction intended to insult. That makes it different.

Peace

[edit on 19-5-2010 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


You seem to be quite insulting in your replies, so my conclusion is that my views offend you. I've not insulted you in any way and you've came back and called me petty, claimed i'm writing this because it's all about me, spoke to me in a very condescending way, made out i'm stupid, have a narrow mindset, i'm on a moral high horse and i'm a nazi. Yeah great debating skills there and i usually agree with your posts too so it's a shame to now find out you're really not a nice person at all.

Oh and for the record, i'm Scottish not American.

It doesn't affect me. But this is a discussion board for discussing things. So i gave my opinion. Big wowy. My opinion doesn't affect you either and you've still got your hackles up about the discussion.

There's non-Muslims in Pakistan so blocking the one URL still stops them from accessing it. Still control. I don't agree with control, whether other countries do it or not or whether it's one url or not. If they have laws saying blasphemy is illegal then they've got the right to block it. Doesn't mean i have to agree with it. I'm still entitled to my opinion.

reply to post by skajkingdom


Damn. That's bad. Thanks for the heads up. I will definitely be avoiding that page!

Originally posted by Nammu
So their laws of blasphemy should not apply to me.

Nammu -it's a good job their islamic laws don't apply as the Pakistani government murders people who commit (the alleged act of) blasphemy.

“295-C: Use of derogatory remarks, etc., in respect of the Holy Prophet: whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him), shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.”

Link

Talk about insecure.