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Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Frankidealist35
If you don't want to be converted, what are you looking for in starting this thread? Is it just a way of gathering lots of people saying "I don't understand Christianity either"? Or are you genuinely curious and genuinely looking for explanations?
I suggest- continue with your reading. Patiently. You can skip lots of the laws in Leviticus, but there's a lot of mileage in looking at the social value in some of the ones in Deuteronomy. Get a good grasp of the history before you try the prophets (because the prophets slot into the history).
And think of God as a Teacher. The point about teaching is that you don't try to achieve the final result instantly. You do it slowly. Maybe that's what the Bible narrative is about. Teaching a whole people. Slowly.
Originally posted by Frankidealist35
The bible wasn't written by a God. If you read all the books in the bible yourself you can see that they were written by humans. They were written by humans who wanted to spread biblical stories of this God for future generations. I suggest that if that's your interpretation of the bible that you should take the time to actually read it.
First of all, it was written by a human being. It was just one persons point of view and this point of view is accepted by dogma universally among all Christians.
John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Originally posted by DISRAELI
Originally posted by Frankidealist35
The bible wasn't written by a God. If you read all the books in the bible yourself you can see that they were written by humans. They were written by humans who wanted to spread biblical stories of this God for future generations. I suggest that if that's your interpretation of the bible that you should take the time to actually read it.
Oh yes, I know that all the books were written by humans. (But, in my viewpoint, that's how God does things. He gets humans to do them).
You are taking it as EITHER/OR. I take it as BOTH/AND.
And I promise you that I have read through the whole Bible, carefully and systematically, on several occasions over my long life. I know my way around the thing. I could offer some help in understanding the structure, but I gather you're not interested.
Originally posted by JesusisTruth
I understand the second part. But like I would think that if there was a God out there it wouldn't be as short tempered as this Christian God is, and, would have given us free will, and well if I were a God, I would want to see my creations freely go about and abound. So the Christian religion conflicts with my view of free will.
See op but what is free will? Exactly? Why do laws exist on this Earth and you don't obey them you go to jail? Yet is free will gone because we have rules in every society including communist?
It's called common sense. Laws have to exist. You got free will, but Gods not a bum, you will pay like I payed from my dad when I was a kid. God is a father. punishment will happen
That's the kind of God I want. So free will conflicts with evil actions, there has to be punishment or else IMO God really don't give a crap at all which is not true.
A REAL dad has strict rules.
Now, as for being short tempered. You as a human don't know what was in those peoples hearts he punished. You don't have a clue how evil some of them were and only God sees all those things.
And this is the mistake of humans. They don't understand and they rebel.
Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by Frankidealist35
First of all, it was written by a human being. It was just one persons point of view and this point of view is accepted by dogma universally among all Christians.
We believe that it is the inspired word of God. Jesus authenticated the Old Testament and indicated that he would guide the apostles to write the New through the Holy Spirit.
John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
You really don't comprehend scripture until you take the leap of faith. Then God actually illuminates it in a supernatural way. It is very trying for us to try and explain scripture to unbelievers. It is like describing music to deaf people.
I suggest concentrate on the Gospel of John, it was actually designed to lead you to understanding.
Originally posted by impaired
They're going to try to convert you anyway, OP.
Or give you a guilt trip.
Or say, "If you're an agnostic, why even bother???"
I say: Read it, take the good stuff (which there is plenty of good stuff), but leave the dogma at the door. If you find contradictions (which there are countless), don't let people tell you NOT to question it.
We have brains - lets use them.
There is nothing wrong with questioning the bible. People shouldn't get all defensive if there's nothing to hide.
And btw, OP, I'm agnostic too. Nothing wrong with being HUMBLE.
[edit on 5/15/2010 by impaired]
The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with God, neither does he who does not love his brother.
11 For this is the message which YOU have heard from [the] beginning, that we should have love for one another;
12 not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother [were] righteous....
16 By this we have come to know love, because that one surrendered his soul for us; and we are under obligation to surrender [our] souls for [our] brothers....
18 Little children, let us love, neither in word nor with the tongue, but in deed and truth.
19 By this we shall know that we originate with the truth, and we shall assure our hearts before him
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Originally posted by Frankidealist35
It looks to me like it is on first glance a collection of stories from a biblical era, and a collection of essays. This collection of essays, it seems to me tries to prove certain points about how people should live their lives. they aren't meant to be taken by dogma. I am interested in what you think of Genesis 11 though.
John 15:6 "You did not chose me, but I chose you"
John 6 v33-37 "All that the father gives to me will come to me... No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him"
1Corinthians 6:20 "You are not your own. For you have been bought with a price.."
1Peter 1:18 "Knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things... but with the precious blood.. the blood of Christ"
John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear my voice and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of my hand"
John 14: 27 "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you.."
John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrightousness"
John 15:11 "I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete"
John 14:16-17 "And I will ask the Father and He will give you another helper...That is the spirit of truth"
Romans 12:6 "We have different gifts, according to the grace given us"
2Corinthians 1:21 - 22 "Now He who established us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as pledge"
1Corinthians 11:25 "In the same way, He took the cup also after supper, saying "This cup is the new covenant in My Blood; do this as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me"
John 14: 2 - 3 "In my Fathers house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you and if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again, and recieve you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."
1Thessalonians 4:16,17 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout..then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord"
Originally posted by Frankidealist35
First of all, it was written by a human being. It was just one persons point of view and this point of view is accepted by dogma universally among all Christians. This person just believed that people should submit themselves to the law, and, not even the bible. He never said anything about the bible. He said that people should submit themselves to this God, and, live a life of forgiveness. I understand the second part. But like I would think that if there was a God out there it wouldn't be as short tempered as this Christian God is, and, would have given us free will, and well if I were a God, I would want to see my creations freely go about and abound. So the Christian religion conflicts with my view of free will.
Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I'm also reading the Genesis story right now. I don't understand how they could think that this God would always want to interfere with the most trivial human affairs. I'm at page 18. I guess you could say from a theological standpoint that it just wanted to check on humans, but, then, if God were all knowing and all important why would it even need to? I would think that this God creature, or, being, would want to interfere as little as possible and from a theistic view only interfere when nations were at conflict with each other.
First of all, it was written by a human being. It was just one persons point of view and this point of view is accepted by dogma universally among all Christians. This person just believed that people should submit themselves to the law, and, not even the bible. He never said anything about the bible.
But like I would think that if there was a God out there it wouldn't be as short tempered as this Christian God is, and, would have given us free will, and well if I were a God, I would want to see my creations freely go about and abound. So the Christian religion conflicts with my view of free will.
I'm also reading the Genesis story right now. I don't understand how they could think that this God would always want to interfere with the most trivial human affairs. I'm at page 18. I guess you could say from a theological standpoint that it just wanted to check on humans, but, then, if God were all knowing and all important why would it even need to? I would think that this God creature, or, being, would want to interfere as little as possible and from a theistic view only interfere when nations were at conflict with each other.
Does anyone share my confusion over religion? I also think a lot of it is just story telling to try to narrate the beliefs of Christianity in not so much of a boring way. That's just me though.