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I don't understand the Christian religion.

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posted on May, 15 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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Please, I don't want you to try to convert me. You won't. I'm an agnostic. First of all, I would want to say that I'm trying to read the Christian religious scriptures so that I can gain more of an understanding of the Christian religion. I read the Roman scriptures already. I have a few problems with that.

First of all, it was written by a human being. It was just one persons point of view and this point of view is accepted by dogma universally among all Christians. This person just believed that people should submit themselves to the law, and, not even the bible. He never said anything about the bible. He said that people should submit themselves to this God, and, live a life of forgiveness. I understand the second part. But like I would think that if there was a God out there it wouldn't be as short tempered as this Christian God is, and, would have given us free will, and well if I were a God, I would want to see my creations freely go about and abound. So the Christian religion conflicts with my view of free will.

I'm also reading the Genesis story right now. I don't understand how they could think that this God would always want to interfere with the most trivial human affairs. I'm at page 18. I guess you could say from a theological standpoint that it just wanted to check on humans, but, then, if God were all knowing and all important why would it even need to? I would think that this God creature, or, being, would want to interfere as little as possible and from a theistic view only interfere when nations were at conflict with each other.

Does anyone share my confusion over religion? I also think a lot of it is just story telling to try to narrate the beliefs of Christianity in not so much of a boring way. That's just me though.




posted on May, 15 2010 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 

If you don't want to be converted, what are you looking for in starting this thread? Is it just a way of gathering lots of people saying "I don't understand Christianity either"? Or are you genuinely curious and genuinely looking for explanations?

I suggest- continue with your reading. Patiently. You can skip lots of the laws in Leviticus, but there's a lot of mileage in looking at the social value in some of the ones in Deuteronomy. Get a good grasp of the history before you try the prophets (because the prophets slot into the history).

And think of God as a Teacher. The point about teaching is that you don't try to achieve the final result instantly. You do it slowly. Maybe that's what the Bible narrative is about. Teaching a whole people. Slowly.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Frankidealist35
 

If you don't want to be converted, what are you looking for in starting this thread? Is it just a way of gathering lots of people saying "I don't understand Christianity either"? Or are you genuinely curious and genuinely looking for explanations?


I'm looking to see if anyone who shares my view of Christianity. I just think that it's wrong that so many people take Christianity in such a dogmatic view. So many people quote all the scriptures, yet they don't take the time to understand the biblical stories, and, they miss the point of the stories and they just quote the scriptures to back themselves up in an argument. Do you see what I'm saying?



I suggest- continue with your reading. Patiently. You can skip lots of the laws in Leviticus, but there's a lot of mileage in looking at the social value in some of the ones in Deuteronomy. Get a good grasp of the history before you try the prophets (because the prophets slot into the history).


I agree. There's a lot to be learned from reading the works. I mostly want to read it to have a better understanding of Christian mythology, and, so I would be able to hold my own when I argue with Christians.



And think of God as a Teacher. The point about teaching is that you don't try to achieve the final result instantly. You do it slowly. Maybe that's what the Bible narrative is about. Teaching a whole people. Slowly.


The bible wasn't written by a God. If you read all the books in the bible yourself you can see that they were written by humans. They were written by humans who wanted to spread biblical stories of this God for future generations. I suggest that if that's your interpretation of the bible that you should take the time to actually read it.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35
The bible wasn't written by a God. If you read all the books in the bible yourself you can see that they were written by humans. They were written by humans who wanted to spread biblical stories of this God for future generations. I suggest that if that's your interpretation of the bible that you should take the time to actually read it.

Oh yes, I know that all the books were written by humans. (But, in my viewpoint, that's how God does things. He gets humans to do them).
You are taking it as EITHER/OR. I take it as BOTH/AND.

And I promise you that I have read through the whole Bible, carefully and systematically, on several occasions over my long life. I know my way around the thing. I could offer some help in understanding the structure, but I gather you're not interested.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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I understand the second part. But like I would think that if there was a God out there it wouldn't be as short tempered as this Christian God is, and, would have given us free will, and well if I were a God, I would want to see my creations freely go about and abound. So the Christian religion conflicts with my view of free will.




See op but what is free will? Exactly? Why do laws exist on this Earth and you don't obey them you go to jail? Yet is free will gone because we have rules in every society including communist?

It's called common sense. Laws have to exist. You got free will, but Gods not a bum, you will pay like I payed from my dad when I was a kid. God is a father. punishment will happen.


That's the kind of God I want. So free will conflicts with evil actions, there has to be punishment or else IMO God really don't give a crap at all which is not true.


A REAL dad has strict rules.


Now, as for being short tempered. You as a human don't know what was in those peoples hearts he punished. You don't have a clue how evil some of them were and only God sees all those things.

And this is the mistake of humans. They don't understand and they rebel.


Also as for the rest of the OP. ofcourse people feal that way, but to me and many saints through the years it not only makes sense but it's (our life) and our passion and through that we have seen miracles some even to the point of 50 strait years of stigmata and so on....


so please stay resepctful even if someone rude enters the thread.

peace


[edit on 15-5-2010 by JesusisTruth]

[edit on 15-5-2010 by JesusisTruth]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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and think about this, I know this sounds silly but I was watching wizards of waverly place with my nieces and it was an episode where their parents were in a spell where they let their kids do anything they wanted.

It got them in MASSIVE trouble, and so they found a way to reverse the spell and they went back to having RULES, and they were extremely happy that they actually cared.


We have free will in the USA, But, there are rules. You can't let evil run everything and justice has to be done.


peace op!



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 




First of all, it was written by a human being. It was just one persons point of view and this point of view is accepted by dogma universally among all Christians.


We believe that it is the inspired word of God. Jesus authenticated the Old Testament and indicated that he would guide the apostles to write the New through the Holy Spirit.


When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
John 16:13

You really don't comprehend scripture until you take the leap of faith. Then God actually illuminates it in a supernatural way. It is very trying for us to try and explain scripture to unbelievers. It is like describing music to deaf people.

I suggest concentrate on the Gospel of John, it was actually designed to lead you to understanding.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 05:20 PM
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They're going to try to convert you anyway, OP.

Or give you a guilt trip.

Or say, "If you're an agnostic, why even bother???"

I say: Read it, take the good stuff (which there is plenty of good stuff), but leave the dogma at the door. If you find contradictions (which there are countless), don't let people tell you NOT to question it.

We have brains - lets use them.

There is nothing wrong with questioning the bible. People shouldn't get all defensive if there's nothing to hide.

And btw, OP, I'm agnostic too. Nothing wrong with being HUMBLE.

[edit on 5/15/2010 by impaired]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
The bible wasn't written by a God. If you read all the books in the bible yourself you can see that they were written by humans. They were written by humans who wanted to spread biblical stories of this God for future generations. I suggest that if that's your interpretation of the bible that you should take the time to actually read it.

Oh yes, I know that all the books were written by humans. (But, in my viewpoint, that's how God does things. He gets humans to do them).
You are taking it as EITHER/OR. I take it as BOTH/AND.

And I promise you that I have read through the whole Bible, carefully and systematically, on several occasions over my long life. I know my way around the thing. I could offer some help in understanding the structure, but I gather you're not interested.



Okay. I respect your beliefs but the more I look at the bible the more that I cannot understand how you can think that it was written by someone who was claiming to have this God of yours mandate when writing it. It looks to me like it is on first glance a collection of stories from a biblical era, and a collection of essays. This collection of essays, it seems to me tries to prove certain points about how people should live their lives. they aren't meant to be taken by dogma. I am interested in what you think of Genesis 11 though.


Originally posted by JesusisTruth
I understand the second part. But like I would think that if there was a God out there it wouldn't be as short tempered as this Christian God is, and, would have given us free will, and well if I were a God, I would want to see my creations freely go about and abound. So the Christian religion conflicts with my view of free will.




See op but what is free will? Exactly? Why do laws exist on this Earth and you don't obey them you go to jail? Yet is free will gone because we have rules in every society including communist?

It's called common sense. Laws have to exist. You got free will, but Gods not a bum, you will pay like I payed from my dad when I was a kid. God is a father. punishment will happen


That's the kind of God I want. So free will conflicts with evil actions, there has to be punishment or else IMO God really don't give a crap at all which is not true.


A REAL dad has strict rules.


I was not talking about the ten comandments. I am talking about all the people claiming to be disciples of Jesus who said that you should submit yourself to God. Is that what this God wants? There is no doubt there are rules. But I don't think if I created the human race that I would want everyone to just be my slaves. How would you feel if you lived in a world where everyone was your yes-man?



Now, as for being short tempered. You as a human don't know what was in those peoples hearts he punished. You don't have a clue how evil some of them were and only God sees all those things.

And this is the mistake of humans. They don't understand and they rebel.


My question is why the God would feel the need to come down to Earth to do the punishment. It's not as if this God couldn't preordain events to make it happen to the nation of Sodom (or whatever it is).



Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by Frankidealist35
 




First of all, it was written by a human being. It was just one persons point of view and this point of view is accepted by dogma universally among all Christians.


We believe that it is the inspired word of God. Jesus authenticated the Old Testament and indicated that he would guide the apostles to write the New through the Holy Spirit.


When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
John 16:13

You really don't comprehend scripture until you take the leap of faith. Then God actually illuminates it in a supernatural way. It is very trying for us to try and explain scripture to unbelievers. It is like describing music to deaf people.

I suggest concentrate on the Gospel of John, it was actually designed to lead you to understanding.



How are you sure that these people are telling the truth? It looks like on first glance that it just says that if the spirit comes he will guide you in the truth. It doesn't necessarily state that all the people who wrote these texts had the blessing of this spirit. How exactly can you be so sure that these people weren't trying to swindle you?


Originally posted by impaired
They're going to try to convert you anyway, OP.

Or give you a guilt trip.

Or say, "If you're an agnostic, why even bother???"


I see.



I say: Read it, take the good stuff (which there is plenty of good stuff), but leave the dogma at the door. If you find contradictions (which there are countless), don't let people tell you NOT to question it.

We have brains - lets use them.


Fair enough. There are tons of things that one can learn from reading the bible. So few people question it. It's like they think that the bible isn't open to interpretation. If it wasn't open to interpretation why would there be so many biblical scholars?




There is nothing wrong with questioning the bible. People shouldn't get all defensive if there's nothing to hide.

And btw, OP, I'm agnostic too. Nothing wrong with being HUMBLE.

[edit on 5/15/2010 by impaired]


#1- I always believe in what that one guy says (who was it that said it), Know your enemy.

#2- Okay.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Frankidealist35]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by impaired
 


Not sure why people claim contradictions in the Bible but yet never give proof of said contradictions? Sounds like an excuse not to read the Bible or believe in it.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


I'm not claiming contradictions in the bible. I merely am claiming that the Christian religion isn't meant to be taken so dogmatically. The more I read it the more it looks like a lot of it is meant to be open to interpretation. Perhaps the 10 commandments aren't. But everything else- at least to what I see, seems to be mostly stories, and narratives and histories. I am also of course expressing my own personal view about what I think of it. And if needed, I would quote various passages to back up my point of view. I mostly have been talking though without a need to quote things because I haven't criticized any particular book yet, I've mostly just been questioning the beliefs of believers.

[edit on 15-5-2010 by Frankidealist35]



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


It depends on what you mean by 'interpretation'. The scriptures only have one meaning intended and we can not change it. On the other hand, God has left us to determine how it's meaning affects our individual lives, so there will be different 'interpretations' and understandings of that intended meaning.



posted on May, 15 2010 @ 11:52 PM
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Well,first things first.The Bible is not just the "Christian"bible.The first part which Christians call the "Old Testament" is what the Jews call The Torah.

The second part the "New Testament" is the "Christian" part of the Bible.

It deals with the life of a guy named Jesus/Joshua.

The Koran also includes the "Old Testament" as part of it.

So three religions that claim Jerusalem as a holy city all believe the "Old Testament" as being a true narrative of how things came about.

So is that a little clearer?

And yes a bunch of people wrote and re-wrote the words to fit their political beliefs.

They are still doing it.

Even the Christian bible is different for each little sect.

The Catholic bible is different than the Protestant bible and the Orthodox bibles.

Confusing isn't it.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


I understand the agnostic point of view better than the atheists or deists, but really the agnostic viewpoint is closer to the deist.
If I did not know what I know, I would be an agnostic for sure, that's why I empathize with the OP.

Look at Christendom's history of control and oppression. Can you blame anybody from questioning "The Christian Religion"?
The dark age mentality of agree and worship or die, makes most people think how could God be using these people through the ages, it's enough to turn any THINKING man agnostic.
But that's the point, he wasn't using them, the great apostasy Jesus foretold only within the realm of christian type religions was happening, if they violated scripture with murder, torture and war they were false Christians and not approved by God. That is hard for people to understand or accept but it's the truth.
Once a person can separate the actions of the false Christians from what the bible really teaches, then you can make progress, if you can't you will be forever stumbled by those hypocrites!

1 John 3:10-12 & 16, 18-19

The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with God, neither does he who does not love his brother.
11 For this is the message which YOU have heard from [the] beginning, that we should have love for one another;
12 not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother [were] righteous....
16 By this we have come to know love, because that one surrendered his soul for us; and we are under obligation to surrender [our] souls for [our] brothers....
18 Little children, let us love, neither in word nor with the tongue, but in deed and truth.
19 By this we shall know that we originate with the truth, and we shall assure our hearts before him


This is why intelligent people are turned off of Christendoms religions

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Mohandas Gandhi.

When you read the gospels you find Jesus teachings are virtually flawless. That is the observation by most. But they are hard to follow, and the clergy of Christendom sure haven't through the ages. Thus it's adherents are led astray, so we have that candid observation by Gandhi.

And eventually the christian religion and it's bible are degraded, and justifiably so, spawning thousands of agnostics.

There is no longer conversion, but the finding of truth, and if you finally find it, it will set you free from man made dogma designed to enslave.

I wish you well in your search.



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35
It looks to me like it is on first glance a collection of stories from a biblical era, and a collection of essays. This collection of essays, it seems to me tries to prove certain points about how people should live their lives. they aren't meant to be taken by dogma. I am interested in what you think of Genesis 11 though.

The overall effect of having a collection like this is that it tells the story of a relationship. If you're writing a biography, you collect information from various places, from people who knew the person, from letters, photographs, etc, and put them all together. Without anyone consciously designing it, (until, perhaps, the final stages of the process), the growth of this collection has a very similar effect.

The main theme, and probably the original theme, of the Old Testament portion is the relationship between God and Israel. The telling of history probably began as a list of "the good things God has done for us". But this is now prefaced with the comments at the beginning of Genesis about the relationship with the human race as a whole. Even if you don't take the stories of Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel literally, their essence is that they are saying "Something has gone wrong in the relationship between God and humanity. The human race has become alienated". In the final version, the Bible has become the story of what God has been doing to try to put things right.

Genesis ch11 is part of this "preface". At the beginning of the story, we are told that "humanity" moved on to "the plain of Shinar" from the east. Historians are now inclined to think that this is exactly where the early Sumerians came from. In other words, it looks as though we have here a piece of genuine Sumerian tradition about their own origins. For practical purposes, the Sumerians were the originators of human city-culture (I'm inclined to agree with the view that they taught much to the Egyptians).

The writer of the chapter is obviously aware of this. He takes it for granted (mistakenly, we now know) that the different ethnic groups also spread out from there. He uses this idea to make a point about human pride, symbolised by the notorious height of the Mesopotamian temples, by blaming it for the "scattering" of the languages. There is the well-known pun on the name of Babylon; there is the implication that this great city was particularly proud of its power. Once again, even if you don't take the story literally, it is saying something about the relationship; it is saying "Human pride tries to usurp the place which belongs to God, and that is a fault".




[edit on 16-5-2010 by DISRAELI]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


Hi Chief.

If you take the time to read what im about to post, including the scriptural parts, its should help you understand exactly what being a christian is and where concepts come from that many speak of but do not fully explain to anyone seeking answers.

Over a year ago after a lot of soul searching I came to a point where I was unsure of what to trust and I refused to go with my heart but rather my head. After my own particular experiences, I checked this bible here for the main quotes in each christian denominations viewpoints...

www.codexsinaiticus.org...

Feel free to do that for validity if it helps you to understand. Personally speaking now that I am a christian, I would say that believing with your heart is even more of a blessing and I never fully understood this until I began to read the bible with the spirit as a guide. Anyways, this might be a long post but if you stick with it, it should make sense of the core and why you might have already heard of the bridal terminology...

If you look at jewish wedding traditions back in biblical days and even the words used in the bible it is literally a marriage between Jesus and his church. Not the church of bricks but the believers.

There are 7 biblical traditions when it comes to jewish marriage customs, I mean, just look at this for a second in comparison to scripture from the bible...

The Match (also known as Shidduch)

1st - The father gets a matchmaker to help them pick the bride, this is called "the match" in english and Shidduch in traditional Jewish language.


John 15:6 "You did not chose me, but I chose you"



John 6 v33-37 "All that the father gives to me will come to me... No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him"


God matched us to Jesus in other words and the bride must accept the fathers proposal.

The Bride Price (also known as Mohar)

2nd - The Bride Price, this was decided between the two parties and the groom would pay the price for his bride.


1Corinthians 6:20 "You are not your own. For you have been bought with a price.."



1Peter 1:18 "Knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things... but with the precious blood.. the blood of Christ"


Jesus died for everyone, that was what we were worth and he paid it so that we might accept him, love or what?

The Love Gifts (also known as Mattan)

3rd - The Love Gifts, this is where the groom would offer the bride gifts that were voluntary as an expression of love.


John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear my voice and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of my hand"




John 14: 27 "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you.."



John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrightousness"



John 15:11 "I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete"


Jesus gave us eternal life, peace, forgiveness and joy as gifts for us accepting him.

He did not have to do this, it was completely voluntary. (pretty good gifts huh?)

The Dowry (also known as Shallen, spoken as "Shelloween")

4th - The Dowry, this is where the father of the groom would give gifts to the bride, specifically to help equip her in a new life with the groom.


John 14:16-17 "And I will ask the Father and He will give you another helper...That is the spirit of truth"

This is a gift from God to help you live for Jesus. This is also the helper when it comes to understanding scripture as well as seeing false preachers for what they are.


Romans 12:6 "We have different gifts, according to the grace given us"

This is an actual person specific gift given to you to serve Jesus.
This is why you may have one person who is a knowledgable scholar, another who can minister to crowds, a good singer among other things.


2Corinthians 1:21 - 22 "Now He who established us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as pledge"



This word Pledge, translated into Greek is ARRABWN which is the word for ENGAGEMENT RING!

This is the gifts that God gives as the Father.

This is how you know without a doubt that you are a christian, you can feel it because it becomes the core of what you are, your understanding of everything changes in an instant and it is one of the most unforgettable experiences you can have.

The Marriage Contract also known as (Ketubah)

5th - The marriage contract, this was a legal document outlining the bride price, the promises of the groom and the rights of the bride. At this point in the marriage ceromany the groom would offer the bride a cup but she did not have to take it, if she did take it she was saying she agrees to marry forever.

Guess what that is??


1Corinthians 11:25 "In the same way, He took the cup also after supper, saying "This cup is the new covenant in My Blood; do this as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me"


He is saying that this is the new contract signed with my blood, he paid the price with his blood, do you accept?

This is where the breaking of bread comes from and the sipping of wine that you might see if you attend (usually) a morning service.

The Betrothal (Kiddushin)

6th - The Betrothal, after the marriage contract was signed, this meant that they were legally married but they still did not live together. Two things had to happen at this point,
1) The groom had to go away and make preparations for their lives together. During that time the Bride had to demonstrate their purity and prove that they would not sell themselves out to other suitors.

2) The groom would go back to the Fathers house and had to build an addition onto the Fathers house called the Bridal Chamber. If a Jewish Father had 5 kids, 5 additions would be added to the house if they got married. They lived in pretty large homes over time as families grew. The father had to be satisfied that the Bridal Chamber was good enough or too his liking before they could move into it.


John 14: 2 - 3 "In my Fathers house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you and if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again, and recieve you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."


If it took God 6 days to create the universe, can you imagine what is waiting after over 2000 years?

The Taking also known as (The Nissuin)

7th Stage - The Taking, once the bridal chamber was completed and the Father had inspected it, he would tell the son to go and get his bride. This could take a week, a month or years in the making as the Bridal chamber had to be perfect and to the Fathers satisfaction with the craftsmanship etc. Nobody knew the hour that the decision would be made because only the Father knew.

The Bride would wait, with no contact with the groom during this time and no idea when the groom was coming to take you away. When the groom came (anytime, during the night or day) you had to be ready to leave for good, the bridegroom would blow a horn and shout, that heralded his arrival for the bride and she would run out to join him, she would be taken away to the fathers house.


1Thessalonians 4:16,17 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout..then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord"


This is where the rapture concept comes into play and is self explanatory, when it comes to specific timing with things like this, I believe its completely pointless arguing about it and trying to get specific dates. There are guidelines in the bible but if you understand what I have just posted, you wont have a hungering thirst to have knowledge of this because having knowledge of this is understanding that it is not possible to be God because only God knows just as the bible states.

Hope this helps you in your understanding of why you must pray a sinners prayer and anything else you might have had a hard time getting.

Also, if you are wondering why I have appeared to miss out Genesis here it is because I do understand which parts you are confused about, quote them and ill help you if I can. There are certain parts of the bible that some understand and others do not, that is just one of the essential reasons for attend a good church, to gain better understanding from others and others can learn from you.

Good luck in the future.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by XXXN3O]



posted on May, 16 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35
First of all, it was written by a human being. It was just one persons point of view and this point of view is accepted by dogma universally among all Christians. This person just believed that people should submit themselves to the law, and, not even the bible. He never said anything about the bible. He said that people should submit themselves to this God, and, live a life of forgiveness. I understand the second part. But like I would think that if there was a God out there it wouldn't be as short tempered as this Christian God is, and, would have given us free will, and well if I were a God, I would want to see my creations freely go about and abound. So the Christian religion conflicts with my view of free will.


I think your referring to Paul the Apostle?
It was written by a human being who Jesus appeared to. The dogma is the same thing that Jesus taught and Jesus told him things. Some things he taught were not from Jesus but they were moral and made sense.
He said all kinds of things about the Bible. I don't know how God can be short tempered when He loves us with an everlasting love. God loved us so much He sent the very best (His Son) to us to save us from our sins.
He did give us freewill to choose Him or not. Check out Genesis and the choice that Adam and Eve made.



Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I'm also reading the Genesis story right now. I don't understand how they could think that this God would always want to interfere with the most trivial human affairs. I'm at page 18. I guess you could say from a theological standpoint that it just wanted to check on humans, but, then, if God were all knowing and all important why would it even need to? I would think that this God creature, or, being, would want to interfere as little as possible and from a theistic view only interfere when nations were at conflict with each other.


He loves us very much and He knows every hair on our head. It's not interference, it's a relationship. He does good things for us. If I created something I'd want to take care of it. God doesn't check on us for Himself, He checks in on us for our sake.








[edit on 5/16/2010 by texastig]



posted on May, 17 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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I'm an agnostic (I guess) myself, but I think I can help...



First of all, it was written by a human being. It was just one persons point of view and this point of view is accepted by dogma universally among all Christians. This person just believed that people should submit themselves to the law, and, not even the bible. He never said anything about the bible.


It was actually written by SEVERAL human beings...otherwise known as the Apostles...
And of course, the religion spawned from Judaism. The Bible was a later assembly of these books (and others were thrown out...the Apocrypha)


But like I would think that if there was a God out there it wouldn't be as short tempered as this Christian God is, and, would have given us free will, and well if I were a God, I would want to see my creations freely go about and abound. So the Christian religion conflicts with my view of free will.


So your argument is that it's wrong because it doesn't jive with your idea of how a God SHOULD behave? How presumptuous....




I'm also reading the Genesis story right now. I don't understand how they could think that this God would always want to interfere with the most trivial human affairs. I'm at page 18. I guess you could say from a theological standpoint that it just wanted to check on humans, but, then, if God were all knowing and all important why would it even need to? I would think that this God creature, or, being, would want to interfere as little as possible and from a theistic view only interfere when nations were at conflict with each other.


Well, in Genesis, there weren't exactly "nations" yet. Also, his interest stems from the idea of making us in his own image...(Pets, is one way to think of it). Aren't you involved with the care of your pets?



Does anyone share my confusion over religion? I also think a lot of it is just story telling to try to narrate the beliefs of Christianity in not so much of a boring way. That's just me though.


The big confusion is...why are some things "sins" if you can just accept Jesus as your savior, and you get a big "ok, all is forgiven" slap on the wrist....? Or, why doesn't the Bible mention the dinosaurs? Or, how did a man really get two of every animal on a boat (and keep them from eating each other, for 40 days and nights)? etc., etc.

Even if not a Christian, there are good lessons from the Bible, just as there are from the Torah, the Koran, the Tao Te Tsing, Siddartha, the Vedas, etc. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater....



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 
The Bible won't make much sense until you become a believer. There is a verse somewhere for that, let me try to find it.



posted on May, 24 2010 @ 10:45 AM
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Here it is:

2 Corinthians 2:14

"The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."



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