Why is the 33rd degree the highest observed Masonic level?

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posted on May, 14 2010 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan



Perhaps i have misunderstood, but i had read that the Freemasons, after being "eradicated" went on to found the Scottish Rite. The 33rd degree concept coming into use at this time referenced the great secret they had about the Church.


The Scottish Rite was actually founded in Charleston, South Carolina, USA in 1801 by 11 York Rite Masons. The first meeting of the Supreme Council 33° was held in 1801 at Shepherd's Tavern in Charleston, with Col. John Mitchell, a Revolutionary War veteran, being elected the first Sovereign Grand Commander.

These 11 Masons had received patents of the 25th degree of the French Rite from a brother who had established that Rite in Jamaica and Haiti, along with the side degrees from the Philosophical Rite. When the two Rites were combined, the new Rite of 33 degrees was designated "Scottish" in reference to the new 29°, which was called Scottish Knight of St. Andrew.


But I would be completely shocked to learn that a Masonic group would just haphazardly combine rites without regard to the sacred numerology.


It depends. I suppose it's possible, but I cannot find any indication that the first 11 members of the Scottish Rite Supreme Council had any knowledge of or interest in sacred numerology. This of course would not always be the case. 70 years later, Albert Pike would be elected Grand Commander, who did in fact study mysticism and numerology, and included some of it in the Rite.




posted on May, 14 2010 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by 911stinks


Sorry, but how exactly do you know that. Are you privy to all the secrets of Freemasonry. I highly doubt it.


How exactly do I know what? And yes, I'm privy to the secrets of Masonry.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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Lag Ba'omer is a minor Jewish holiday which falls on the 33rd day of the Omer
Jesus's age when he was crucified in 33 A.D., according to many, though not verified historically.[1]

According to Al-Ghazali the dwellers of Heaven will exist eternally in a state of being age 33.[2]

Jesus performed 33 recorded miracles

33 is not only a numerical representation of “the star of David”, but also the numerical equivalent of AMEN. 1+13+5+14=33



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by Just Wondering
 


Outstanding post.

It seems as though there is a connection between what is considered "God" and man. It is stated overtly, but taken as metaphor, and covertly in the Mysteries.

I am not able to add much to my own thread today...work is busybusybusy. But i do have some additional comments to make to this.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


To placate my own laziness, and since you seem to have the information readily available, could you point me to some resources surrounding what you claim?



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


To placate my own laziness, and since you seem to have the information readily available, could you point me to some resources surrounding what you claim?


Dr. William L. Fox's "Lodge of the Double Headed Eagle" is considered the definitive history of the Scottish Rite. There is also "History of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" by Harold V.B. Voorhis, 33°, which is a pretty good introduction to the subject, as well as A.F.C. Jackson's "Rose Croix: History of the Ancient and Accepted Rite in England and Wales", which gives the history of the Rite after it made its way across the pond.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Masonic Light]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


The history section of Arturo de Hoyos' "Scottish Rite Ritual Monitor & Guide" is also really good.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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The Master Mason is the highest degree you can attain in Freemasonry, the other degrees are other avenues you can take to enrich the Masonic experience. Too many people see "higher" numbers and cling to that - don't be so obsessed with the numbering system.

reply to post by 911stinks
 

Really? That's the best you can do?

reply to post by 911stinks
 

She's a fairly weathly monarch, what else did you expect? Owning no land? Plus, what does land ownership have to do with her being the head of the Masons in your mind?

Every Grand Lodge is sovereign to itself, there is no higher authority. The York Rite bodies are not as wide spread and same goes for Scottish Rite. There are many Chivalric Orders that are not Masonic connected that may have similar names. There is a body within the Masonic Orders called Knights of Malta, but it is not the highest order. The highest Masonic Chivalric Order is the Order of the Temple (Knights Templar). And I am a 100% sure she does not lead that as I have met the Most Eminent Grand Master myself.

Plus as it has been pointed out, no females allowed.

reply to post by 911stinks
 

And you are privy to the secrets? I highly doubt that. Plus, I'm sure you could look that stuff up. I know for sure that Masonic Knights Templar has a website you can see Bill Koon on the front page.

As Master Masons and many of us are members of the appendant bodies we are privy to secrets of the Order. That's how that works, you join, you get the secrets.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by KSigMason]



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
The initiate is brought in and placed in front of a bible, or a flag, and told to defile it. If they choose not to, they are told that they chose the right choice, of loyalty and righteousness, and they are announced as having succeeded. But if they choose to defile that which is sacred to them, they are told that their separation from worldly concerns makes them a remarkable individual and they are brought into the Masonic Mysteries. Others are told they succeeded, and they begin living with the burden of the knowledge that they will continue to gain.


I am a little curious about this part of the OP. Where did this information come from?



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
The initiate is brought in and placed in front of a bible, or a flag, and told to defile it. If they choose not to, they are told that they chose the right choice, of loyalty and righteousness, and they are announced as having succeeded. But if they choose to defile that which is sacred to them, they are told that their separation from worldly concerns makes them a remarkable individual and they are brought into the Masonic Mysteries. Others are told they succeeded, and they begin living with the burden of the knowledge that they will continue to gain.


I am a little curious about this part of the OP. Where did this information come from?


Lots of sources, i suppose. I first read it from someone here on ATS, and i looked it up after that by simply searching "33rd degree mason initiation". Here is the current first return:

www.conspiracyarchive.com...

And the part of the story pertaining to the above (from about 2/3's down the page):


When my turn came I was ushered into the office and seated. The very first question I was asked was, "Of what religion are you?" Not long before this I would have answered with something like, "I believe the Ancient Mysteries, the 'Old Religion,' and I believe in reincarnation." However, without thinking at all about how to answer, I found myself saying, "I am a Christian."

Then, to my sup rise and theirs, I asked them, "Are you men born again?" The man in charge quickly stopped me by saying, "We're not here to talk about that - we are here to ask you questions."

After they sent me back out I sat down and thought about it. When the next man came out, I asked him, "Did they ask you if you are a Christian?" He said, "Yes, they did."

"What did you tell them?" I asked, and he replied, "I told them 'Hell no, and I never intend to be!'"

Then he said a strange thing to me, "They said I'm going higher," and he left through a different door, looking pleased.


I have asserted earlier that the Scottish Rite, which is most practiced in the US, is a remnant of the Templars. This is alluded to, i believe, multiple times in multiple places. If it is untrue, i would just like someone to point me to references that can help build that case for me. Having said that, the above initiation describes the type of secret that I am alluding to being revealed at the 33rd degree. It is related to Jesus' age upon death, and according to another person marks the number of vertebrae in the human. This makes it all the more important, as the head represents God in symbology. It represents the tip of the pentacle, the Monad...that subtle material that combines fire, earth, air, and water. The Philosophers Stone (which is a real "item" as well, only interwoven within the entire numerical system of The Mysteries).

Once you reach 33rd level, you find out the truth of Jesus and are given the chance to learn the information that relates directly to the Monad. In the Scottish Rite, you must first denounce Christianity, religious faith.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by tovenar
 




Very interesting.

Is this the possible connection with the 33 years of Christ?

The number 33 has multiple esoteric meanings. This is one of many. Is it the significance?

I would be interested to hear your take on what the name of God is.


Though people don’t really like to talk about it, G-d’s name is AU, other wise known as Gold, otherwise known as the divine source, of which the Divine Right of Kings emanates from, in the one real rule that they follow, the Golden Rule; He who has the gold gets to make the rules.

People in the know don’t like to actually disclose G-d’s name because this would be gaudy!

Au is derived from the Latin Word aurum, which means shining dawn. Worship of Au is manifest in Apollo, Horus, and Lucifer, who are all considered to be light bearers, bringers of the shining dawn.

As you can see Au sits on top of the pyramid, with a trilogy of Au (Gold), Ag (Silver) which comes from the Latin word, argentum meaning white and shining, followed by Cu (Copper) derived from the Latin word cuprum.

There is your trilogy from which the ancient Kings choose to place the highest value on, in mobilizing, incentivizing, binding, and governing their people towards, in searching for, mining for, extracting and warring for these metals, which represent the epitome of power, as they are the elements that are used to define true earthly value.

G-d is G-O-L-D!






posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


To placate my own laziness, and since you seem to have the information readily available, could you point me to some resources surrounding what you claim?


Dr. William L. Fox's "Lodge of the Double Headed Eagle" is considered the definitive history of the Scottish Rite. There is also "History of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" by Harold V.B. Voorhis, 33°, which is a pretty good introduction to the subject, as well as A.F.C. Jackson's "Rose Croix: History of the Ancient and Accepted Rite in England and Wales", which gives the history of the Rite after it made its way across the pond.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by Masonic Light]


The problem i have with this is it is written by folks like 32 and 33 degree masons. We are talking about the folks who actually know the Mysteries of the Rite. Their sworn oath is to keep these Mysteries secret from the profane under punishment of death. Why would i find them credible?

Of course, Manly Hall was a high level Mason as well. But not when he wrote The Secret Teachings Of All Ages. While it is contended by some, it is often believed that he was not associated with the Masons at all until a few years later, and it resulted directly from his studies, and his desire to understand it better.

Given the reputation he had among the various lodges (who all, or almost all, have the above referenced book in their collections), it is no surprise that he ended up among their ranks.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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Well, as far as anybody has said, there are only 33 Degrees. However, one certainly doesn't know what one doesn't know. If there are higher Degrees (I would suspect possibly up to 45), then those could be kept so secret that they are known only to those who are at those levels.

After all, what good is a semi-secret organization if all of its secrets are known?



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


I have heard that story before as well, but only here, and only referenced with freemasonrywatch or some such anti site. I have asked a few of my friends who are 33rd degree masons. I was told that was a crock. I am willing to accept that since I am only a 32nd degree, there is no way for sure I would have that information until such time as I was bestowed the honor of the 33rd. A member and brother who has passed Appak, had said that was all crap as well. he had been a 33rd for quite a while. I think it's safe to say that that question will never really be answered. A 33rd degree mason must surely be hiding the truth of he says no. After all, he promised to keep it a secret.
Catch 22.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


This is a very interesting idea.

I know that gold's value isn't just because it is pretty. Pretty is just not utilitarian enough to explain its perceived value. It isn't like salt, which had a use.

Gold is used often as a metaphorical object describing the return of investment of ones time/effort. Perhaps the key lies in this?

In Hall's book, it is often referred to parallel to "the great work". But my memory serves me to say that it was the "great work" that could create gold, not vice versa.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Shift
Well, as far as anybody has said, there are only 33 Degrees. However, one certainly doesn't know what one doesn't know. If there are higher Degrees (I would suspect possibly up to 45), then those could be kept so secret that they are known only to those who are at those levels.

After all, what good is a semi-secret organization if all of its secrets are known?
If there were degrees higher than 33°, someone, somewhere, would be selling lapel pins. If you don't have a lapel pin for every side order, secret club, or affiliated body, then you really aren't a Mason.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


No doubt others have said it (we all typically say the same thing lol)

Freemasonry consist of 3 degrees. The Scottish Rite is not Freemasonry.. it is simply Masonic. It's outside of Freemasonry though, it is a body recognized by the Grandlodges, and it accepts only 3rd degree Master Masons.

Same thing with the York Rite.

33rd is simply the highest NUMBER .. the York rite has it's own equivalent. It used to be you had to be a 32nd to get into the Shrine (now it's just 3rd) so technically on the progression scale the Shrine was higher than the Scottish Rite ... but not really.

Because nothing is higher than 3.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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This is a very interesting thread. Threads like this are why I stick around at ATS. So much garbage gets posted these days.

I'm no expert on numerology, but I'm kind of confused about 33.

I understand why 3/trilogy is important, but 33 is 3 times 11, not 3 times 3 (which is 9... for all of you who went to California Public schools like me!! lol jk). You could say that it's two 3's together, but two 3's is 6.

The number I would associate more with divinity would be 27. 3x3x3, or a trinity of trinities.

Also, looking at the quoted text in the OP... why would the Nicene Council lie about Jesus's age just so that he "dies" at age 33? Why would they do that? I dont think any of the messiah prophesies required the messiah to live only 33 years. And even though some people find the number 33 to be of numerilogically significance, why would you deliberately alter text that you claim is holy and above reproach just to meet that criteria? I mean, I guess it's possible, it just doesn't make sense to me.

But again, interesting thread! Thanks for posting.

The more & more i read about Freemasonry, the more curious I get, but also more confused. Theres so much disinformation out there. I'd like sit down with a real Mason and ask questions some time. Any Masons reading this who wouldnt mind a Q&A session, please feel free to contact me.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by josheboyxiii
This is a very interesting thread. Threads like this are why I stick around at ATS. So much garbage gets posted these days.

I'm no expert on numerology, but I'm kind of confused about 33.

I understand why 3/trilogy is important, but 33 is 3 times 11, not 3 times 3 (which is 9... for all of you who went to California Public schools like me!! lol jk). You could say that it's two 3's together, but two 3's is 6.

The number I would associate more with divinity would be 27. 3x3x3, or a trinity of trinities.

Also, looking at the quoted text in the OP... why would the Nicene Council lie about Jesus's age just so that he "dies" at age 33? Why would they do that? I dont think any of the messiah prophesies required the messiah to live only 33 years. And even though some people find the number 33 to be of numerilogically significance, why would you deliberately alter text that you claim is holy and above reproach just to meet that criteria? I mean, I guess it's possible, it just doesn't make sense to me.

But again, interesting thread! Thanks for posting.

The more & more i read about Freemasonry, the more curious I get, but also more confused. Theres so much disinformation out there. I'd like sit down with a real Mason and ask questions some time. Any Masons reading this who wouldnt mind a Q&A session, please feel free to contact me.


For information about why the Nicene Council would lie about Jesus age, take a stroll over to Protoplasmic Traveller's thread, "All Roads Lead To Rome". It is all about power and control.

Do not ask a mason to fill you in on the secrets. That is exactly what they swear to NOT do. Instead, you will have to study the shadows to ascertain the shape of the figure casting it.

Like i said, the book in the OP is written by a man who spent 2 solid years researching in detail the Mysteries. He became a Mason after writing the book. It is the best source of information on Masonic teachings that I have found.

Of course, i dismiss many of the available mason books as propaganda meant to bury their mysteries even deeper away from the profane.

Thanks for posting.



posted on May, 14 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


My poor reference aside, the point is that the Scottish Rite, being the successor to the Templars, utilizes the number 33 for a reason.

But you are correct, there is no number "higher" than 3, unless you change context in which case 10 is a pretty supreme number, representing the monad both forms simultaneously.






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