Why do people care more about liberties of the unborn than that of our own?

I've never understood why so many people can put so much effort towards a discussion about whether unborn people have rights rather than talking about actual living people ourselves. Heck. Unborn people have more rights than we do. They have a right to life. Can we say that about any of us? No we can't.

According to other people everyone else has a right to die and there are people that hold these Christian values but would rather see nothing more than to see everyone submit themselves to the military and submit themselves to die for the valor of their country. How can these people continue to fight for the liberty of the unborn while watching everyone else around them lose their own liberty? Why do we elect these people into office while they continue to destroy the constitution and disrespect the founding fathers? This boggles my mind.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Frankidealist35]

reply to post by Frankidealist35

Unborn people have more rights than we do. They have a right to life.

Not in America. Lke 50% of potential black children were aborted last year. Personally, I think that we should protect a babies life over an adults. An adult is already corrupted, whereas a baby is innocent and full of promise.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by CowPatty]

reply to post by CowPatty


I don't believe in the life begins at conception stuff so don't start that in this thread. I believe that a baby doesn't have all its bodily features until the late trimester and that a human doesn't officially start living life until they're 4 years old. I think that women should have a choice not to have a baby and that it's their right but can we at least get back to the current topic?

The problem is that people much like yourself think that the world sucks already as it is so they want to help the unborn, but by helping the unborn and not the current generation you're putting more of a burden on future generations and all of the other generations. We need to deal with these constitutional problems now and get rid of all of these idiots running our country so these babies will have a chance. Just because we don't have all of our rights we deserve doesn't mean we should delegate all of our time fighting for people who aren't born while not fighting for our own rights.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Frankidealist35]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by CowPatty

 

that a human doesn't officially start living life until they're 4 years old.

What?

I can remember my life before 4 years old, the emotions I felt, the dreams I had, the people around me. I don't understand why you would say that?

But I get what your saying, if we keep saying we will do it tomorrow, it will never happen, we have to make the changes now for everyone here, so we can benefit, and then the future generations can also benefit.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Have you ever heard of a human fetus being born as a puppy?

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I say that because that's when we learn to talk and think and act to others. Before then we're just lying around and we're just yelling all the time. I see all these babies who are younger than 4 years olds, and, these people just sit there and they do nothing and they can't really live life how it's meant to be. That's all I meant by that.


And yeah, that's what I'm saying. We should be spending more of our time securing our liberties. That way the unborn will have more liberties themselves. But just because things suck now doesn't mean we should just try to secure it for the unborn and force them to live in a world filled with despotic politicians and misery, if you see what I mean.

reply to post by CowPatty


No... could you care to elaborate?

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Frankidealist35]

reply to post by Frankidealist35


My point is that if a human fetus always results in a human being when brought to full term in a healthy manner then it is rational to conclude that the fetus is a human being from the moment of conception.

reply to post by CowPatty


Then it would be more accurate to say that a fetus becomes a human being. it isn't a human when it's conceived. If you were really concerned about human life you would be concerned about all the sperm dying while men have sex with women. Don't you think all of those sperm and eggs that die have a right to life? I just think it's a ridiculous to base your argument that a fetus's life begins at conception based on the fact that it develops into a human being, because, many other sperms attempted to become fetuses, but failed. So what about them?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


That is ridiculous. Sperm cannot form a human life on their own. Eggs cannot form a human life on their own. It is not a life until the two fuse together and begin to reproduce chromosomes that have unique DNA.

reply to post by CowPatty


That's kind of my point. A fetus is not a life until it develops into a human being. Therefore, it's not a life until it becomes human. In my view, a fetus isn't really a life, but it's just a potential life. We can agree to disagree can't we?

These american religious anti abortionists are the first ones that want to go to war on some poor nation. Killing mothers and children . Maybe they only have a selected envelope in who they think god deems ought to have the right to birth ?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Sure we can agree to disagree.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by CowPatty

 

I don't believe in the life begins at conception stuff so don't start that in this thread. I believe that a baby doesn't have all its bodily features until the late trimester and that a human doesn't officially start living life until they're 4 years old. I think that women should have a choice not to have a baby and that it's their right but can we at least get back to the current topic?

The problem is that people much like yourself think that the world sucks already as it is so they want to help the unborn, but by helping the unborn and not the current generation you're putting more of a burden on future generations and all of the other generations. We need to deal with these constitutional problems now and get rid of all of these idiots running our country so these babies will have a chance. Just because we don't have all of our rights we deserve doesn't mean we should delegate all of our time fighting for people who aren't born while not fighting for our own rights.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Frankidealist35]

Whoa, You ask and then when you get an opinion you go on the attack of their idea. Then you attack them. I think you may have an agenda here, have fun with your RANT.

Do you really believe life begins a 4 years old? When does it end at 65?

Hoping the mods send this thread to the trash bin.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


All fights for liberty are fights for the unborn. I'm not talking abortion I'm talking future generations. Those that fight and die for liberty now are fighting and dying for the freedom of future generations. Unfortunately wars are more often fought for profit or resource these days, instead of freedom.

reply to post by Loken68


I believe this is just a misunderstanding. The poster was just telling me that he/she viewed a fetus as where life begins at conception and we were just having a debate about the idea. I just wanted to get back on to the topic about discussing why people cared more about the issue of the unborn, whereas, I think that our utmost goal in life, at least for now should be protecting what we have and making things the best possible for the future. We should cherish our freedoms, and, make it even better for the unborn. That's all I was saying in that little debate there.

I believe the question should boil down to the following questions: What is more important, the right of privacy of a prospective mother, versus the right of an unborn child? Does the state have the right to intrude in a private medical decision between doctor and patient?
At what point is there evidence of a soul? And at what point does intelligence start in the development of the human life, not instinct, but actual conscious thought?
Those are the questions that most people tend not to want to think about or ask. The first 2 questions were asked and decided in the Roe V. Wade supreme court case. It was not about abortion, rather it was about the privacy of a woman and her doctor.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Ok bud, I' good with that. Even though I disagree with your take on where life begins. But surely you don't think life begins at 4 years old?

Do you know that they claim in 60 to 70 years due to abortion that Down Syndrome people will be extinct. Imagine what happens when someone decides that AD-HD children should be aborted.
Just a thought.
90%

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by CowPatty

 

I don't believe in the life begins at conception stuff so don't start that in this thread. I believe that a baby doesn't have all its bodily features until the late trimester and that a human doesn't officially start living life until they're 4 years old. I think that women should have a choice not to have a baby and that it's their right but can we at least get back to the current topic?

The problem is that people much like yourself think that the world sucks already as it is so they want to help the unborn, but by helping the unborn and not the current generation you're putting more of a burden on future generations and all of the other generations. We need to deal with these constitutional problems now and get rid of all of these idiots running our country so these babies will have a chance. Just because we don't have all of our rights we deserve doesn't mean we should delegate all of our time fighting for people who aren't born while not fighting for our own rights.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by Frankidealist35]

If a woman doesn't want a baby, she must abstain or use protection. IN the event that she becomes pregnant, if she is wise, she will realize she understood the risks before engaging into sexual relations.

It is understandable that a woman may not feel ready to be a mother. Firstly, WHO IS? Secondly, abortion cannot be allowed to be a form of forgiveness. Abortion should ONLY be an option if a woman was literally forced. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Forgiveness should be granted all people for their mistakes - but we still deserve the consequences of our actions.

But of course, why should my beliefs matter if yours are that life doesn't even begin until one is 4 years old? I guess you've never been around a one year old. If you believe that, then all animals on this planet deserve not to live. My 2 year old nephew is extremely intelligent, sweet, patient, and loving. Sorry to tell you, but life ends at 5 years old for him. He'll have to go to school to start being trained to be an adult. It's great to be an adult in today's society, don't you think?

A more sensitive person might think that you were selfish for believing that we shouldn't fight for the future of our offspring. I understand that you want to fight for us now - as well we should. But should there not also be people fighting for the future of the offspring as well? Do you not think that some people are unfit to be able to protect us as we are? Maybe those kinds of people should be fighting for the future of the offspring and leave that job to the people who can fight for us now.

My wife's personality is such that she fights for our child. My personality is that I think people need to stop being incredibly unthinking and overly-emotional. I'm a rock. I am a challenger. I press everyone around me to be stronger willed and better thinkers. My wife softens their hearts and shows them another form of love.

You would have me believe that all people should be rocks? There must be someone to pick up the rocks and move them.

The human race would die off with your philosophy, friend.

Edit to fix my redneck grammar.






[edit on 5/10/2010 by TarzanBeta]

It's the Martyr complex, just as Christianity wants you to forgive then you will be considered worthy of being raptured into the kingdom of heaven. People see these fetuses as a way to fight for gods children and buy doing this and being a martyr, they will have done a good deed. Most of this is being done for the purpose of that, just like when the slaves and the poor where told to take the horrors and abuse because you will get your reward in the afterlife. As it was back then it is increasingly now, they are doing everything they can for the afterlife. Abortion has been around for a long time, rich people and others with means back in the day where able to go to Canada or fly overseas to have it done (if the child might be biracial or to hide a family secret). But all the other women had to either have the child or go to a backroom abortion doctor who may or may not have had the instruments but most likely used a coat hanger (coat hanger charlie was the name).

The abortionists are hypocrites. For one they say they are against abortion, except in case of rape or incests. The problem with that is they just shot their thesis to hell. If abortionis to protect the child and it's considered a child at conception (they say), then (not being PC) even a bastard child has the right to live irregardless as how the mother feels. You see these religious zealots are being political. They know that they can't say to their people and others that your mom or sister or wife may have to carry the baby of rapists or the victim of incests. They would lose people big time, so what they do is to give this safety valve in which you can say it's rape and get your daughter or female relation an abortion.

If your against abortion then your against it pure and simple, but they can't go that step because IT'S EMOTIONAL for them. Thats why abortion is private and up to the woman, it's emotional and it's not just going to pick up a soda from the store. Yes there will be people who will abuse it but thats like everything. Our religious crazies may not blow themselves up and such, but they do use the law and politicians to make a medical situation so traumatic even more so to the person that there are only a few doctors who will do it. People never hear about the 12 year old girl who was raped by her father, people never hear about the mother who learns that her baby will be born brain dead etc. etc.. And thats because ITS BETWEEN THEIR DOCTOR AND HER AND NOT US. Stop getting into the middle of peoples personal lives and worry about yours. Your emotionally raping these women by making a difficult situation more difficult and you should stop it. If you don't want to do it then don't, but you don't see me outside your house screaming dont do this or that.

reply to post by hoghead cheese


It's interesting to see who allows others their selfishness so they can hold onto their own.

It's also interesting that someone must have a martyr complex in your mind to be a genuine person.

I know not to trust you so easily friend.