What would an appropriate penalty be for BP's destruction of an entire ecosystem?

Originally posted by SlickOil
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

It would be easy to not make a profit on the books so you didnt have to pay any taxes for 10 years. If you know you are going to loose all profits and your shareholders are clear on that as well then you can just invest tons in R&D, buy other companies that have a future but have huge losses, etc..

I agree, there would be difficulties, and theoretically they could 'lose' all their profits, but $20 billion a year is a lot to lose my friend, and there would be fail safes and stringent guidelines involved, I just don't like members calling other members idiots...ticks me off!!!

reply to post by kiwifoot

I just don't like members calling other members idiots...ticks me off!!!

LOL, me either because I got called an idiot earlier in this thread. Thanks for standing up for us idiots.

Originally posted by saabster5
Back to OP, the problem with fining the company, is where exactly would the fine go? Would it be all put towards cleanup? Would it be put towards environmental safeguards for the future? This is sticky situation because BP will still want to make a profit margin, and while UK pays approximately $10/gal for petrol, will they see a further increase for fuel prices?

This is my biggest concern with corporations. They are too ambiguous to fine. They have too much influence on such a large scale. A fine of $1 billion dollars will be passed on to the consumers, while the company still pulls in huge profits in its quarterly reporting. Wages for employees will drop, while executives will see continued or rising wage increases. Cutting corners pays on the executive level.

The hell with financial fines that mean nothing to these big corporations. And yes a lot of the fines end up being paid by consumers!

I say find out WHO is responsible for the mess and punish them severly. Twenty years without parole is the minimum imo!! We need to make EXAMPLES out of corporate executives who put profit above safety.

Lesser crimes of negligence can get smaller jail times or fines.

Originally posted by endisnighe
Well, since the socialists have shown what they want to happen, use this as an excuse to nationalize the oil industry, that should be an indicator of just what is going on in our economy.

Might want to ask yourself, who exactly was behind the economy's downfall. Was it the greedy capitalists or the socialists in our government? Might open some people's eyes, others.......not so much. Or, they might just think it was worth destroying everyone's savings, for the good of the collective!

Now, everyone here has certainly glossed over the news that BP has stated they will pay any and all people that will be hurt by this.

I wonder how if the federal government is going to send BP a bill for 300 Billion to BP. I guess this will be the sign that the socialists in our government have the people's interest involved or their own.

Keep an eye on the left hand while the right hand is waving.

What the hell is wrong with you? If america and europe were actually socialistic instead of capitalistic a lot of these accidents would never happen.

In capitalism the goal is profit! To *capitalise* means to exploit and/or take advantage. That is clear as day! To imply we have a socialistic government is unbelievably moronic. Safety procedures mean little if they hurt the bottom line of your balance sheet. If you don't cut corners you minimise profit and that in turn makes shareholders very mad! Have you ever played the stock market?

I know first hand what wall street is about, so please don't lecture me about the evils of socialism. I in turn will lecture YOU about the evils of CAPITALISM, so deal with it!

We the people of this planet will pay as we all use that Oil. Supply and Demand. Pay up people.

For everyone who thinks we should "bankrupt" BP you know little about the effects that would have. All the costs, penalties, and fines will just get passed on to the consumer. They should be punished, but bankrupting them does no good for anyone. I dont get how everyone thinks MONEY makes these things acceptable. Just like the global warming BS, and the cap and trade program. How does paying more money to the government make this all better? It is a scam.

reply to post by bakednutz


How is the cost not going to get passed onto the consumer regardless of whether we bankrupt BP? BP cannot afford this cleanup and so the taxpayer will end up paying for most of it anyway.

I say we sell off all of BP's assets to get as much money as we can.

What is it with people and money? How does money solve these problems? Will getting rich fix this? No. They should be responsible for the cost of clean up but you should receive nothing. Money does not make polluting OK. Does anyone understand this?

reply to post by bakednutz


That is just the point, money is not enough. So the closest we can get is to wipe them out as a company and break them apart and let people buy up the remaining pieces and then use that money to help pay for cleanup.

reply to post by SlickOil


Why would we sell off a company which makes a profit? You sell it off and then what? You have a pile of cash that will only get you so far. They have the money to pay for the clean up. Almost $6 Billion in profit last year. It would also prove to be devastating to the oil markets and in turn, higher gas prices for you and I.

reply to post by jrmcleod


So just because it is not THE biggest spill, we shouldn't be concerned?

reply to post by bakednutz


No it wouldnt. Other companies would buy up BP's assets and improve their profits. It wouldnt have to raise oil prices at all. Things get bought and sold all the time. You can keep the wells running while they are up for sale just put them in receivership.

reply to post by Luke.S


Thanks for the link and thanks for the info. Star for YOU!!!

To answer th O.P's question, fire whoever decided to put B.P. on that rig, fine him his share of the clean-up cost, and yank the operating licence of the company who owned the rig permenantly. Fine every salaried person in that company the cost of clean-up.



Peace

These oil spill(s) are bad... I hope that this becomes a thing of the past- meaning, a solution is found to quell the oil flow and a repair to the damages that have occurred.

Not only that, though; how about putting more thought into the "what ifs".
Yes, the unforeseeable happens; yet, I do think too much emphasis is put into profit building and not enough put into keeping the planet- read environment, as pure or untouched as we can.

Yes, some times I am idyllic and tend not to go for the "king of the sandbox" style of living. Too many already get hurt when we exist like that.

reply to post by kiwifoot


I'm going to stick with "you're an idiot" on this. You may not be an idiot in general, but in this particular case...

Do you really think a company like BP would be okay with not making profit and becoming a company that only evens out? Of course not. They would either close and say a big "FU" to everyone and restart under a different name without any of the legal penalties, or they would eventually be forced to fold because investors won't put money into a company that makes zero profit.

I can throw all the stones I want, because it isn't a glass house, that is simple business logic and economics.

The point of this discussion was what would be an appropriate fine. 100% loss of profit would not fall under appropriate.

reply to post by UnmitigatedDisaster


It is obvious they should pay all the clean-up costs, even if that means BP goes bankrupt.

Additional fines should not be levied on the company, but rather individuals within the company found responsible for gross negligence should be fined, jailed or both! And I am not talking about just the employees working on the rig, I am talking about everyone responsible...even the CEO!

I can not imagine what an oil spill larger than the Exxon Valdez would be like. Up here in Alaska, you can go to any beach in the Gulf of Alaska, dig a few inches down, pour some water in and lo and behold, the water turns black with oil, this 19 years later too and fishing is still impossible near the shores in the Gulf. Glad I live in Southeast Alaska.

[edit on 5/2/10 by MoothyKnight]

I say we tar 'n' feather all the executives. Now wouln't that be appropriate?

Seriously though they should pay ALL costs associated with the cleanup, compensate those who have lost income and suffered in any way as a result.

That's just for starters. They need to prove they are taking active steps to ensure this never happens again and pay the states some pretty hefty fines, certainly in the billions.

Finally, and this will hurt them the most, invest a significant percentage of their profits into so called green energy technology. I'm thinking somewhere in the order of 20 - 30%.

Here in Q.L.D. we have recently had 2 tankers spill many tons of oil, first devestating Moreton Island, then the Great Barrier Reef. What did Bligh and her government do? Jack sh*t. Oh those naughty asian captains taking shortcuts and ignoring safety warnings. They'd better not do that again or we'll do something. Now on your way. We'll get the bill.

Oh look, they did it again........

Hire the largest workforce of people in the country that are unemployed, give non violent criminals (like DUI offenders, Small possesion offenders etc) a chance to volunteer there time to help, use the swift strong arm of the gulf coasts national guard and army corps of engineers, and build a workforce of people that can clean scrub and lay and pick up filters and lets show the world that At least Americans and Descent people can work together to clean up this mess together we all use petroleum it is at some degree that allows the demand so high the faults of all of us not using cleaner energy solutions if they existed but it is also in my opinion the responsibility of any just government to provide its people with clean and innovative technology we build a nuclear bomb bang dept of energy goal to make cleaner energy sources which in turn they have done alot of not doing that it is our fault for excepting this so at the least maybe our country can band together do our best and learn from this tragedy.