Not just another Arizona law thread

Arizonas new law was well planned and written, it based on the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986. Which the federal government refuses to enforce.
www.uscis.gov...

Why won't the federal government enforce the current law ?

Could it be because our government is still involved in the drug trade in mexico?
en.wikipedia.org...

Could it be because banks are heavily involved in laundering drug money on both sides of the border ?
www.guardian.co.uk...

Could it be because mexico has the 11th largest oil reserve in the world ?
Canada is 2nd. Makes you wonder about the North American Union.
www.nationmaster.com...

Now, as far as Arizonas new law, Americas law enforcement has had 2 practices that have already stood up in court.

Reasonable suspicion
en.wikipedia.org...

Probable cause
definitions.uslegal.com...

Both laws have nothing to do with the color of ones skin.

What both laws are, are law enforcement tools to stop anyone and ask questions and get proper I.D. Anyone can be detained or held in jail without being arrested, for not having proper I.D.

The Arizona law is the state giving it's local law enforcement the power to enforce the existing federal laws.

And now, the big question. Do the states have the right to make and enforce their own laws, do american citizens have any say in their own government ?
What this boils down to is not illegal aliens, but the rights of every state to operate and function, and the voice of the american people.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE

What this boils down to is not illegal aliens, but the rights of every state to operate and function, and the voice of the american people.

No. What this boils down to is AMERICANS being thrown in jail because they don't have their BC on them at all times. That is totalitarianism. Funny how you folks jump up and down about a fascist police state until it comes to Mexicans. Then it's about state's rights. BTW federal law trumps state law, and has since the civil war. Keep up, okay.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE


I totally agree with you. The States, (We the People) should be able to have laws that we want in our states. Ohio wants to mirror the AZ law and I wish my state would.

We didn't create this problem, the Feds did by not enforcing the LAW. Kudos to AZ for finally taking a stand. I'm not against immigration. I'm against doing it illegally.

If you want to be an American, learn our language and go through the legal channels or Leave.....

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip


Can you show me in the law where it says you need to have your birth certificate ? What if you have a valid Drivers license that checks out ?

Good job AZ...sick of the crime rates going through the roof.



[edit on 27-4-2010 by zzombie]

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip


1. Why do people assume?
2. I never said I agreed with the bill.
3.What I agree with is any states right to function under the U.S Constitution.
4. Reasonable suspicion and probable cause have been on the books for a long time and they both passed the court test. I never said I agreed with those laws either.
Law inforcement CAN detain and hold ANYONE without arrest for what ever reason they want. (who's word is the court going to take)
5. There have been many laws passed in many states addressing illegal immigrants and most of them have been shot down in the courts.
All this law does is give the state the power to enforce laws that are on the books that the federal government is failing to enforce.
6. The American Civil War was not just about slavery it was about the states right to govern themselves.
7.I think Americans are being pushed into another civil war by TPTB and the MSM. Americans don't want this and won't start it , but over 12 million illegals being riled up, just might. Then comes martial law.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE


I live in Arizona, and I for one am happy that our state finally did something about the rising crime and border incursions. If our federal government nullifies this law, I have a feeling it will cause a HUGE rift between Washington and our state.

What really upsets me is that although THE MAJORITY of Arizonans and THE MAJORITY of Americans are happy about this law, the only thing that is shown on the LIBERAL MEDIA writes about is the side of the illegal aliens. And oh, yeah....they don't call them illegal aliens....they call them immigrants.

I myself am middle of the road, not conservative, not liberal, and the ULTRA-LIBERAL media really pisses me off lately. Listen, I am all for immigration. I'm mostly Italian and Irish.....so my ancestors were immigrants, too. But if you're going to come over, do it legally. Don't come over and break the law. That's all we're saying.

17% of people who cross the southern border illegally are ciminals to begin with....that's almost 1 out of 5 people. That's A LOT of criminals who come over here, then engage in criminal activity over here. In 2002, it was estimated that there were 15 to 20 million illegal immigrants in America. 17% of 20 million (maybe more, now that it's 2010) = 3.4 million CRIMINALS who came up here.

And the result?

For decades, Arizona has been the car-stealing capital of the world. (My car was stolen in 2005.) And now, Arizona is the kidnapping capital of the world. They (illegal immigrants) don't get drivers licenses, they don't get insurance of any kind. My car was stole, and my mom was totalled by an illegal alien, who was drunk. He had no drivers license, he had no insurance. So her insurance had to pay for it.

The illegal aliens have no health insurance, so they overload our emergency rooms, and the hospital never gets paid for it. Because of that, many of our level I trauma centers in America had to close down because of being overwhelmed.

Not to mention, these poor immigrants who come up here out of desperation for work (the non-criminal ones) are dropped off in "drop houses" and then tortured and raped here in Phoenix, and held for ransom until their relatives pay enough money for the human smugglers to let them go. They can't go to the cops for help, because they're not supposed to be here in the first place, but the smugglers RARELY get caught and punished because the cops hands are tied, and the federal government is not enforcing the borders!

So, Arizona FINALLY does something and passes a law that says that the cops can now finally ask about their immigration status, and now Obama and Napolitano and Holder condemn our actions as "unfortunate" and "racist". Give me a break! This is an anti-criminal law, NOT an anti-hispanic law!

We have no problem with Mexican-Americans or legal immigrants from any country. I have many friends here in Arizona who are Mexican-American, who are here legally, and whose families have been here legally for generations. In fact, their families have probably been here for much longer than my ancestors has been here in this country! I can assure you that people in this state is NOT anti-Hispanic. We are just tired of the criminal activity and the social consequences associated with illegal immigration of criminals, the drug cartels, and human smugglers. And we have every right to pass a law to do something about it, since the federal government refuses to secure the borders.

I am really angry at Obama and his cabinet members. They need to stop referring to these criminals who cross the border as "immigrants" and start referring to them for what they are: "illegal immigrants who engage in criminal activity."

I am tired of the liberal media only covering the reactions of the ultra-liberal left.

It will be really interesting to see what happens here in Arizona if the federal government tries to reverse this law....




[edit on 27-4-2010 by nikiano]

I think it would be useful for the US to adopt the same Draconian Policies used in Mexico for visitors and immigrants. As an immigrant in Mexico I would love to see the result of you demonstrating in the streets of a Mexican city trying to force their government to give you government assistance, or accuse them of being discriminatory and predjudiced against your race. You would end up in the bottom of some dungeon that they politley call a prison.

Ask the native peoples in the old Mayan strongholds how fair the Mexican government is to their people, let alone an illegal immigrant without papers.

The failure of the US government to protect its people, the only real enumerated right that the US Government has under the Constitution, is a travesty and an abomination. No one here "illegally" is entitled to any of our benefits or resources before our own people are protected and served.

Because of the Judeo-Christian ethic that this country was founded on we are by nature an accepting and very tolerant culture, ready to offer a helping hand over and over to people all across the globe. People who are routinely abused and ravaged by their own ruthless and uncivilized rulers and despots are embraced and protected by us over and over, our history for the last 100yrs. or more shows this to be true.

The rest of the world has benefitted on manifold scales because of the ethic we are founded on. We are the most giving and magnanomous civilization on the planet and the world is a better place because we have exported our brand of civilization all over the planet. I know a lot of people will scream that we are arrogant and abusive with our position and power. So what! If we had done nothing for the last 75 years Europe would still be sweeping up the ashes and the Chinese and Southeast Asia would still be being culled for its resources by the Japanese. After the Allies kicked the crap out of the lunatics trying to kill eveyone off we set up "Democratic Societies" and gave the people of several war torn countries back their countries. Obviously the mark of racists and bigots!!

The absurdities that are spewed on some of these posts about our being unfair and racist are disgusting and unfounded. No civilzation in man's recorded history has ever done so much to help so many people than the Anglo-American cultures that have promoted individual freedom and liberty. I defy any of the psuedo-intellectuals here to prove to me or any of the other defenders of American Liberty and Civilization that the world has not benefitted from our humanitarian efforts around the globe.