The Sky Was Black On The Moon?

It must look cool seeing the sky black and seeing earth loong away.

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
Regarding Latency of Pupillary Reflex to Light.

Although this is a thesis referring to aging, the Data in this is still relevant to changes in light intensity.

libraryonline.erau.edu...

Can you explain what you are trying to show with this becuase if you try this for yourself which has been repeated many times on here.

Go into a very well lit room stay there for a while turn of the light see how long it takes your eyes to adjust before you can make out shapes etc in the darkness.

I have often experienced this over the many years of my life, as well as the other extreme and that is, observing Sun rises with the naked eye for about 45 minutes in the mornings (without taking my eyes off the Sun) as well as often looking at the sun during the day...

While looking at the Sun, even at mid day, I still see the environment perfectly, this involves seeing cloud, as well as landscape in the mornings...

We are lead to believe that damage will occur if we do this...

On my last visit to an optician (often yearly) for a check up I was told my eyes are normal for my age and No problems....

I have been looking at the Sun now for many, many years now, yet NO damage to my eyes according to opticians...

But what I am saying is that Yes, our eyes can be slow to react to changing levels of Light, but this is governed by factors involving response. This mainly is to do with the physical nature of our eyes that which controls the aperture and other adaptive responses involving rods and cones.

For my eyes to adjust from looking at the sun, to not seeing the sun is only a couple of seconds if that.

While looking at the Sun I close my eyes gently, then turn away and open my eyes again and I see normally and can read the pages of a book, at that moment...

When did you last Look at the Sun and try this ???

The same occurs if I look into a dark room and then look at a powerful light source, provided I close my eyes between looking at one source of light to another...

reply to post by weedwhacker


Yes I understand the movie clip but this is Not what I am referring to...

There was No pause between One person to another and No talking over the top of one another.

We were Not just listening to the 3 Parties (Earth, Moon and Command Module) Out of NASA... as displayed in the Movie clip you provided !

But seperately from each of the 3 sources...

The general public only heard the conversations of the 3 THROUGH NASA...

You would expect if one transmitted from say the Moon to the earth there would be a pause before the one on earth would receive the transmission As you said???

But this did not occur.

Others that were listening besides me, made the same comments saying "why is there no gap between both ends of the communications?"

The person who brought the ZC1 to work was involved with bouncing RF of the moon at the time, so he knew a little about this phenomenon.


[edit on 26-4-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Sorry but what you said is RUBBISH you cannot stare at the sun for any length of time with the naked eye within seconds your eyes would start to water and you would look away.

I also never said LOOK into a darkend room I said stand in a brightly lit room then turn the lights off and it takes a while for your eyes to adjust to the darkness.

Have you ever seen a film re submarines they run with red lights in the sub at night do you know why? this is why.

Control is normally rigged for red while underway at night. This is because the eyes more readily adjust to the night time conditions during periscope operations. Even low level lighting (non-red lighting) affects the eyes adversely enough to cause several minutes of time to fully adjust to night time vision.

Also none of you guys have answered the following yet

why can we see the Moon during the day and not even the brightest star!

How much brighter than the moon is the sun and how much brighter than the brightest star sirius is the moon!

If you work out the second it answers the first!!!!!

reply to post by wmd_2008

Sorry but what you said is RUBBISH you cannot stare at the sun for any length of time with the naked eye within seconds your eyes would start to water and you would look away.

Don’t take this Personally….

Just because you and I are different, does Not mean I am talking Rubbish.

There is much for you to learn about yourself and the experience (of this little Universe) you are having...

You don't know much about history do you ???

The watching of the Sun, esp. at dawn is a very old art from ancient times usually performed by Pharaohs, Kings and Emperors, for reasons beyond your comprehension...
Nether do you understand the Geometric Information left behind in your world.

There are many who often watch the Sun Rising, but do you know anything at all, regarding this practice or why some do this ???

Just because You don't have this knowledge, does NOT say I am talking Rubbish....
There is more to this world than You can ever imagine.

You Lack in knowledge of Ancient Arts and of what you are, or where you have come from....

Perhaps your eyes water, because You Love Darkness, and Hate Light, and therefore can't look at the Sun ???

Originally posted by purplemonkey
same reason you can't see stars (or very few) in the city at night, light polution. you know you could easily have done a simple google search instead of writing a lengthy post.

Light pollution only works because we have an atmosphere and the light reflects, refracts, and rebounds around the molecules in the atmosphere making them more visible than the stars beyond.

HOWEVER.

There is no atmosphere on the moon sooooo, no light pollution.

Originally posted by DaRAGE
Light pollution only works because we have an atmosphere and the light reflects, refracts, and rebounds around the molecules in the atmosphere making them more visible than the stars beyond.

Those distortions, aberrations produced by atmosphere also affect our view of stars, actually making them appear larger related to their brightness and even produces the 'twinkle' we're familiar with. Without atmospheric effects the stars will appear much smaller, barely being a single pixel in digital terms even though their magnitude (relative brightness) is unchanged. Even in the clearest sky on earth those distortions produce a 'halo' around light sources which has little effect on our view of the moon (due to size) but, in the case of stars, the halo is much larger than the actual point-source itself.

It may be an interesting exercise to work out how large our sun would appear to be from Proxima Centauri (276 069 AU) compared to how large it appears from earth (1 AU), lets say in terms of pixels on an 800x600 digital picture.

Let's say the sun at 1 AU is 50 pixels in diameter in our picture and every time we double the distance it halves in apparent size. 267069 AU is 2^18.075 so that 50 pixels gets halved 18.075 times leaving us with a dot too small to even register as a single pixel on that measly 800x600 sensor without the benefit of atmospheric distortions spreading some of the light into adjacent pixels.

[edit on 27/4/2010 by Pilgrum]

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

Sorry but what you said is RUBBISH you cannot stare at the sun for any length of time with the naked eye within seconds your eyes would start to water and you would look away.

Don’t take this Personally….

Just because you and I are different, does Not mean I am talking Rubbish.

There is much for you to learn about yourself and the experience (of this little Universe) you are having...

You don't know much about history do you ???

The watching of the Sun, esp. at dawn is a very old art from ancient times usually performed by Pharaohs, Kings and Emperors, for reasons beyond your comprehension...
Nether do you understand the Geometric Information left behind in your world.

There are many who often watch the Sun Rising, but do you know anything at all, regarding this practice or why some do this ???

Just because You don't have this knowledge, does NOT say I am talking Rubbish....
There is more to this world than You can ever imagine.

You Lack in knowledge of Ancient Arts and of what you are, or where you have come from....

Perhaps your eyes water, because You Love Darkness, and Hate Light, and therefore can't look at the Sun ???

Sorry but its not an art its mumbo jumbo you are talking no one can look at the sun in the way describe so dont try to sound all mystic because this is what it sounds like mate.

x7f.xanga.com...

Look at any medical site they will say something like this.

Unfortunately for your eyes, there isn’t a way to replace damaged cells in the retina like there is in the skin. So when someone stares at the sun, the cells in the retina die. And they they are dead for good. So a blind spot forms, or general blindness can occur in especially bad cases.

So what are YOU blind or BULLSH___R THIS IS WHAT YOU CLAIMED

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller


I have often experienced this over the many years of my life, as well as the other extreme and that is, observing Sun rises with the naked eye for about 45 minutes in the mornings (without taking my eyes off the Sun) as well as often looking at the sun during the day...

While looking at the Sun, even at mid day, I still see the environment perfectly, this involves seeing cloud, as well as landscape in the mornings...

We are lead to believe that damage will occur if we do this...

On my last visit to an optician (often yearly) for a check up I was told my eyes are normal for my age and No problems....

I have been looking at the Sun now for many, many years now, yet NO damage to my eyes according to opticians...

But what I am saying is that Yes, our eyes can be slow to react to changing levels of Light, but this is governed by factors involving response. This mainly is to do with the physical nature of our eyes that which controls the aperture and other adaptive responses involving rods and cones.

For my eyes to adjust from looking at the sun, to not seeing the sun is only a couple of seconds if that.

While looking at the Sun I close my eyes gently, then turn away and open my eyes again and I see normally and can read the pages of a book, at that moment...

When did you last Look at the Sun and try this ???

The same occurs if I look into a dark room and then look at a powerful light source, provided I close my eyes between looking at one source of light to another...

[edit on 27-4-2010 by wmd_2008]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by wmd_2008]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by wmd_2008]

reply to post by wmd_2008

Unfortunately for your eyes, there isn’t a way to replace damaged cells in the retina like there is in the skin. So when someone stares at the sun, the cells in the retina die. And they they are dead for good. So a blind spot forms, or general blindness can occur in especially bad cases.

Well this certainly has NOT happend to me and others like myself whether you like it Not...

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

Unfortunately for your eyes, there isn’t a way to replace damaged cells in the retina like there is in the skin. So when someone stares at the sun, the cells in the retina die. And they they are dead for good. So a blind spot forms, or general blindness can occur in especially bad cases.

Well this certainly has NOT happend to me and others like myself whether you like it Not...

The reason its not happened is because you are stating something you cannot prove if you really think your so special approach the news papers and tv were you live and let everyone see you doing what you claim,dont worry when you go BLIND I will buy you a white stick

I wont hold my breath waiting for this event to take place!

reply to post by wmd_2008


And there is Nothing Mystical about what we do… But then I can’t expect anything else from a superstitious Primate such as yourself I guess.

Reply to post by DaRAGE

No $hit anyone can look at the sun at sunset or sunrise. Lol wow. That's not what the poster is calling you out on. He's saying you can stare at the sun when it is at its brightest like you claim.

O and the reason why you can go from bright light to a book is because your pupils are still letting let in even as small as they may be. On the other hand going from bright to pitch black takes a few minutes. Your pupils take time to become enlarged to allow the max amount of light in. I don't know though maybe your eyes are just as special as your brain and you are able to stare at the sun just like depicted in ancienct civilizations. Lol many I wish I were able to see a sunset with my own two eyes.

I've seen this debunked and ignored a few times in here already. Kinda sad.




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Let's think for a second. Ok so this was the climax of the space race. All eyes were on this. And let's say this may have been faked. Do you think the smaryest people in the world really would have missed anything? Come on. If it were faked nasa had to know that russia would have known instantly. They would not have put together a fake moon landing with more holes than swiss cheese as you guys claim. These scientists back then are smarter than what you guys are today. I mean come on you know its sad when myth busters has to spend a whole episode de bunking the whole no moon thing.

This won't be scientific but Was the moon not reflecting light from the sun when they took those pictures? Surely it was stronger than the light from the stars. For example my blackberry when taken outside during the day needs to brighten the screen so I can see it. When its night it can darken the screen and ill see it fine. Their is no stmosphere around my phone just so you guys can note that. I've had phones in the past where I could not see a single thing on the screen when outside.

So if the moon was reflecting the suns light then in order for the light to be seen it would have to be at a level of equalness to the surface of the moon.

I guess the best way to test this would be have a very very bright room with no room for any shadows with light distributed evenly. Then at a distance a dim light at the same ratio of brightness the stars would have been in comparison to the moon. The dimmer light could not be rflective in any sort of way with the room painted black? I suppose. Their's probably a better way, but I suppose the only way most of ypu will believe is by going to the moon and testing it for yourselves.good thing the corporates are starting to see the profitability in space travel


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

WARNING, dangerous and irresponsible information is being posted by The Matrix Traveller.

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
Well this certainly has NOT happend to me and others like myself whether you like it Not...

Like wmd, I call. This sun-gazing bulldung is unsupportable rubbish and EXTREMELY DANGEROUS 'advice'.


Looking at the Sun, especially when it is more than few degrees above the horizon, is extremely risky. If the Sun impinges directly on a small area of your retina for more than about five seconds, there is a strong risk of permanent damage, and that risk increases rapidly with longer exposure.

You can tell when there is a risk of permanent damage, by the 'afterburn' effect, where you see the images of the Sun in your eyes for several seconds afterwards. That indicates your retina has received temporary damage from IR/UV/visible light that is far too strong for the delicate photochemical balancing act that goes on in the eye.. and if you push it too far...

From:
en.wikipedia.org...

Looking directly at the sun for even brief periods of time may cause blindness or severe damage to the eye.[8] Solar retinopathy, damage to the eye’s retina due to solar radiation,[9] and blindness to varying degrees and persistence frequently result from sungazing during a solar eclipse.[2][10] Although vision loss due to this damage is generally reversible,[9] permanent damage and loss of vision have been reported.[11] Most eye care professionals advise patients to avoid looking directly at the sun.[12] Exposure to ultraviolet radiation, produced by the sun, is associated with damage to the eye, including pterygium[13] and cataracts.[14]
Proponents suggest sungazing within an hour[15] or 2 hours[16] of sunrise or sunset, when UV levels are lower. At least one practitioner continued the practice despite clear evidence of eye damage.[1]

Do I need to supply all the references to support that?

It is also worth noting that minor damage is very difficult to test for, and will NOT be picked up in ordinary eye tests. It requires a special type of testing. I trust MT is aware of the 'blind spot' that every eye has? You don't normally see it, because your other eye is supplying 'fill-in' information and your brain knows to move the eye slightly (again, you won't notice it)... That's why normal testing won't spot it, until it is too late..

So, great news, Matrix - if what you say is true (and frankly I doubt it), your eyes probably are already damaged, but you don't know it. It will get worse - so do carry on and keep us informed.

Now before I mention a couple of provisos, I would ask MT to answer a simple question. If it is safe to do what you are doing, why is there such a panic with every solar eclipse? You know, safety warnings, special glasses, etc... Is it because our magical sun somehow gets brighter during an eclipse? (hint - NO! and just before you think up some new bluff, I've been very heavily involved in preparation of advice for eclipse viewing here in Australia - this is a topic I know rather well..)


There are a couple of provisos that might offer an explanation for MT not having blind spots (here's where you can make excuses, MT - I am always happy to help..):

1. At dawn, the Sun is shining through a LOT more atmosphere than when overhead, and if that atmosphere is full of water vapour/dust/pollution (as it often is near ground levels, hence the common reddish sunset effect), then the risk of damage may be minimal (if you *can* comfortably look at a nice reddish Sun near the horizon, it is probably reasonably safe to do so).

2. If you are constantly moving your eyes around slightly (and, frankly, your brain will force that to happen - but an unobservant person would possibly not notice) then the risk of permanent damage is small.



[edit on 27-4-2010 by CHRLZ]

reply to post by CHRLZ


I agree with you but he stated he watched the sun rise for 45 mins and he also looked at it midday thats why I said he was talking bullcookies.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by wmd_2008]

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

And there is Nothing Mystical about what we do… But then I can’t expect anything else from a superstitious Primate such as yourself I guess.

Take up the challenge then oh mystic one PROVE you can do what you do like I said I wont hold my breath

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

Yes I understand the movie clip but this is Not what I am referring to...

Well...then you don't understand, obviously.

Again, I understood to what you were referring. Still, you just don't get it.

And, your 'holier-than-thou' attitude towards we mere 'primates' is a bluff, since the majority of us understand perfectly.
Seems only YOU cannot comprehend logic, and science.

Instead of sitting all "high-and-mighty" on your Pharoah's throne, why not come down to 'our' level, and take some time to actually learn a thing or two? (**)[see edit below]---


Quindar Tones, for a start:

history.nasa.gov...


This is by no means a full description -- but it's a start on the path to enlightenment, for a young 'grasshopper'.

Then, with some new-found knowledge, one can listen again to various Apollo mission recordings of crew, and CapCom communications with a better 'ear', more attuned to what's going on.

Also, keep in mind, that some recordings you hear may have edits in them. Always important to check the provenance of each example, and this holds true for videos as well.

The 'business' of space flight is usually quite boring, and things happen methodically, and slowly, and safely in about 99.9% of operations.

Watching it, after-the-fact (or listening) can grow dull, so often it is edited to leave out the boring bits.

Just tune in to the "NASA Channel" (if you have access -- I have it via my Sat TV subscription. Might stream online, too) during a Shuttle mission. (Only three left...next one's in May).

You can then hear for yourself how excrutiatingly slowly (except for launches, of course - and final pahse of re-entry) most things happen.

'Course, won't be many examples of time delay, but Quindar Tones still.


Take note, also, of this detail: NASA's comm uses a sophisticated process, seperate channels for transmitting, and receiving. This, compared to a more prosaic VHF transceiver, for instance, like you'd have on your personal boat (?--if you're wealthy enough) or, if you fly, similar to what you use for aviation. When you key your mic, with one of those type units, you "mute" the receiver. Un-key the mic, and receiver functions again. Hence, term 'transceiver'. Two different 'stations', attempting to transmit on VHF at same time? Then, neither one is understandable, usually. They 'block' each other...sometimes the term we use is 'step on', or 'smear', etc.

Listen to an aviation frequency scanner a few times, and you'll hear examples.

Again, different from the more sophisticated technology that NASA uses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(**)Reference quote, for context:

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
The watching of the Sun, esp. at dawn is a very old art from ancient times usually performed by Pharaohs, Kings and Emperors, for reasons beyond your comprehension...
Nether do you understand the Geometric Information left behind in your world.

I guess we should all ??




[edit on 27 April 2010 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


I am more familiar with radio communications than you assume, but thanks for your post anyway.
I was involved in rescue operations for many years in the past.

Yes I know many may laugh, but I do NOT worship the sun... as many superstitious and ignorant people my falsely imply I do.

It never ceases to amaze me how superstitious people are especially regarding the Sun...

Looking at the Sun is far more common than most realise and does NOT INVOLVE any MYSTIC or RELIGIOUS beliefs...

I suggest some should read up on a little History.

The BS that is told about damage being done to the eyes is Part of the Conspiracy that is fed to the public.

Like anything there is a Correct way, and a Wrong way....

There is a Scientific book called....

"The Nature of Light and Colour in the Open Air" if I remember correctly.

If anyone wants to check it out ???

It's about 40+ years old now.

I guess some are just ignorant of the existance of this book???

You can probably find it on the net.

This book outlines the SAFE and Correct way to do this, but this is another story..

It is laughable to say I will go blind as I am near the end of my Life now and have looked at the Sun for many years pehaps more years than the age of some on ATS???

I recon I will visit the grave before I go blind....

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Like I and others have said BS you cannot look at the sunrise/set for 45 mins you cannot look dirrectly at the miday sun with the NAKED eye for any period of time.

If you think you can, do what I say make it a news story you would earn a fortune if its true but like I SAID you WONT because YOU CANT !

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

 

Like I and others have said BS you cannot look at the sunrise/set for 45 mins you cannot look dirrectly at the miday sun with the NAKED eye for any period of time.

If you think you can, do what I say make it a news story you would earn a fortune if its true but like I SAID you WONT because YOU CANT !

Try reading the scientific Book I mentioned before you make further comment.

As I said it is a more common practice than you are aware of.

Even other animals do this too.... in the Mornings.

At Mid-day 30 seconds is about the absolute Limit or damage starts to occur.

But my point was that adjusting to light levels is Not the cause of the lack of stars regarding the moon, but rather it has to do with the absence of an atmosphere.

I believe "Pilgrum" was onto the correct answer.... regarding the lack of stars seen on the moon...
[edit on 29-4-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]