Another seriously undeniable flaw in the 'official' 9/11 story.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
So , weedwhacker and Esdad, if they did not need impetus for the events, why wait?

Ahh of course it was just a coincidence that brought upon the attacks and the almost immediate invasion of afghanistan, and then Iraq which were all fed to the public as being necessary because of 9/11 .

Nope, no impetus at all.

Saddam kicked the IAEA out in 98. He wanted nuclear weapons. This is not fiction. He had developed chemical and bio weapons and was well into his research into nuclear options. Prior to that, during Desert Storm when we did not complete what we should have, the plans were being drawn on what to do when and if he was close to acquiring nuclear weapons. We waited for what we felt as proof. Look into what crossed the border into Syria in the days leading up to the invasion. Scares the hell out of me since it is so close to Lebanon and the crap storm there who I am sure is holding onto something....

As far as Afghanistan, they housed the Taliban and it was a known hot spot to terror activity. There was needed there too and it helps us to bracket Iran.


As far as the shame on you from the other poster, are you from America? If so and you feel so close to these 'soveriegn' states as you put it, move there....

Originally posted by TopsyTurvyFuture
IMO there is ONE single, simple over-riding piece of information that proves that 9/11 was carried out, if only in part, by people inside our Government - the fact that this happened on a day when there was an exercise scheduled that used very nearly the same scenario as the actual event. T....

Among the many "coincidences" -- 9/10/2001, the Bin Laden family came to the USA and there was a meeting of the "Carlysle Group" -- which is a war profiting outfit that has had George Bush senior as chairman, and I think they've got that fop from England who did everything little George wanted on staff as well.

The previous day, as well, Rumsfeld announced that the "Pentagon could not account for $2 trillion in spending." I think a lot of people forgot about that the next day.

Jeb Bush was having a beer with Bin Laden's brother when the towers were first hit at a local bar in Florida.

>> Now here's the thing. Prior to that, we were TOLD they the Bush family, some energy concerns, and some representatives from Afghanistan had a falling out in a meeting in Texas over a gas pipeline in Afghanistan -- that's after the Bin Laden's had invested lots of money in Bush family oil ventures. "We can pave you with gold or a carpet of bombs" was the quote, I believe.

But also, as happens so often with the Bush family, one of the family members of the Bin Laden's was killed when investigating some irregular trading practices with an oil investment -- his small plane fell out of the sky. Like half a dozen Latin American leaders who were Pro Union and of course, JFK Junior, Paul Wellstone -- just to name a few.

>> It seems to me, that the KNOWN meeting of the Bin Laden's was the target. Then Cheney adds the "mock anti-terror drills." It's so much like the MI-5 Drills in England where the "terrorists" followed the exact schedule and target list of the agents.

So if they DIDN'T want to IMPLICATE the Bin Laden family -- it was a real bad choice. And if Bin Laden really was involved with Al Qaeda, the fact that the Italian's working for Berlusconi made that badly forged video of him taking credit, kind of makes it tough to believe they really wanted to take credit. Why wouldn't he just post a video and brag? I don't doubt they could get some Al Qaeda "members" for the operation -- all you would need is some double-agent, as all these "cells" are loosely linked and any "man-in-the-middle" con would likely work -- especially if you are giving them money and training to attack the USA. But it's kind of like the Miami 7 -- these losers had nothing better to do and weren't up to the task without a lot of help.

On 9/12/2001, the only airplane allowed to fly is the Bin Laden family, and the FBI is told NOT TO interrogate them in any way.

The Tora Bora operation seemed botched on purpose to me. Bin Laden was surrounded and special forces was told to stand down and local crime lord group was given the task of capture. Bin Laden slips into Pakistan.

>> Either there are two powerful groups trying to implicate and then protect the Bin Ladens -- or maybe, more likely -- the people implicating Bin Laden are more worried about someone actually being interviewed and forcing inconvenient questions on the volatile situation. The press had already said; "looks like a demolition" and the situation was too dicey to give the "bad guys" a chance to get on TV.

However, it seems that they fulfilled everything on Bin Laden's wish list, including killing off Saddam, removing our troops from Saudi soil, and pushing Iraq into a theocracy.

Al Qaeda to me, has always seemed like a joint Saudi and CIA group, to get dissidents in Saudi Arabia to join with a controlled enemy. It isn't anything new; I'm pretty sure that all the reports of "CIA planes with coc aine" found crashed on the way from Columbia, supports the idea that during the 60's, they infiltrated the mob and found smuggling drugs was lucrative. Since JFK's assassination, there has never been any hint of any crime lord thinking about attacking a US politician. You can add Ollie North's shipments of drugs to pay for weapons to Iran to that list.

But basically, the Bush family, has MERGED parts of the CIA with organized crime in this country. The top crime bosses, are well known to some in Miami -- yet they comfortably don't worry about the law. After the S&L crisis of the '80s, the Republicans were all excited to score some points digging up dirt on Democrats and banking -- and then they found connections between Silverado Savings and Loan and BCCI in Dubai -- and the investigating stopped. Now the Carlysle Group, Blackwater, Haliburton, Bush and Cheney all have moved much of their banking to the UAE (capital is Dubai).

Then you've got the "President" of Afghanistan being a UNOCAL executive with CIA ties, and his brother is suspected of being the biggest poppy seed seller in the country. Google for some news about; "Blackwater mercenaries caught dealing drugs with the Taliban." It also would shed some light on why they were caught smuggling Kolishnikoff rifles -- you know, because if you kill some people you shouldn't be killing, you can always blame it on "terrorists" right?

>> The whole mess is complicated and this is what I've pieced together from a bit here and a bit there. The favorite scam of the Bush family, is to work with their biggest enemy. They did it with Cuban mafia and their hit on JFK while the Secret Service stood down, and a Mobster took out the poor patsy while someone in the CIA by the name of "George Bush" flew from Texas that day to meet with Hoover and make some threats (the CIA says they had another spook named George Bush flying from Texas that day but won't say who). But who could arrange for the President's brain to disappear -- a single shooter?

Then they railed about the Mullah's in Iran, while Ollie North was giving them weapons to KEEP the hostages.

Maybe you can find some other examples of the Bush family, working with some alleged enemy... I remember that in 2007, while Bush was claiming that Iran was part of the "axis of evil" -- we were still shipping them fighter jet parts for F-14s that only stopped after public outcry. And Sibel Edmonds, claims that the Bush government, was selling nuclear secrets to A Q Khan in Pakistan, and he was selling them to North Korea, Iran and Iraq to name a few.

>> I think about this when Bush scared the Iranians just before they elected an anti-western nutjob. I think about this every time we HERE about "oh no, they are moving bombs and airplanes near Iran." As long as they can scare that country -- the Mullahs will keep power, and they sure as heck like scaring people in this country, so that people don't get upset about closing schools while we spend $780 Billion on our military.

reply to post by esdad71


Saddam WAS interested in Nukes, but gave up AFTER Clinton bombed the heck out of his factory -- the one the Republicans claimed was a "baby food factory."

Bush sent in 40 expatriate Iraqi families to investigate. Read up on Able Danger. Read up perhaps on the "After Downing Street Memos." There is a plethora of examples of them "fixing the facts." Maybe we could mention Brewster Jennings again -- probably not just burned because they proved that Saddam wasn't interested in "Yellow Cake" but also probably burned because they stopped shipments of WMD materials INTO Iraq.

When you spend millions of Taxpayer dollars on "The Lincoln Group" to place disinformation stories in Australia's press (via good old Rupert Murdoch) and then use those stories as SOURCES -- Fooling yourself does not mean you have probable cause.

Then the Bush group used a guy code named "Curve Ball" who the Germans said was unreliable. They tortured another guy and got PRO-WMD information -- but it turns out that is previous information to the FBI without torture was completely accurate and supported the "no WMDs" point.

Did we forget all the stories about "aluminum tube, drones, and mobile weapons labs" that turned out to be pipes, radio shack models and

Iraq was almost helpless when we attacked them with "shock and awe." Saddam was a prick -- but he was happily our prick for many years. His desire to get weapons is pretty much like the rest of the world and during this time where we subverted this nation, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, North Korea

>> How many times does the Bush administration have to be caught in the act of lying or breaking laws for them to lose the "benefit of the doubt" with some people? He allegedly screws up and keeps getting more of what he wants -- and we are supposed to accept; "oops I failed to protect the nation, oops I lost Bin Laden when I pulled back our forces, oops I accidentally invaded two of the wrong countries, oops we accidentally outed an CIA group committed to preventing the spread of WMDs, oops we accidentally elected someone in Afghanistan who worked for the CIA, UNOCAL and whose brother is a heroine dealer, oops we destroyed the evidence, oops we failed to rescue people after Katrina but we managed to close the schools, oops we put Fascist on the supreme court who voted to let Corporations buy votes, oops we accidentally made the Constitution useless with the Patriot Act which we wrote before 9/11.


Some people I guess are fooled all of the time with this "oops" gimmick. I think the Bush administration should be behind bars for the rest of their misbegotten lives whether they are innocent or guilty -- just for the purpose of national security. We are so accepting of "collateral damage" and here is a group of people who are far from innocent,.. who have to be proven guilty beyond any doubt what-so-ever before we can investigate them and our economy and security was already their collateral damage.

It just doesn't seem fair to me.

Did you know the Pappy Bush and some other family members were going to be convicted of about $17 Billion in fraudulent Federal Notes but all the evidence was destroyed in Building 7? Innocent until proven guilty... that's a lot of luck.

weedy..

Shame...sorry to upset your sensibilities...!!

I never intended to accuse you personally for the attacks on Sovereign States....obviously you never invaded Iraq...

However, your denial of 9/11 being the False Flag catalyst your government used to commence its War on Terror, including the illegal invasions(under International law not Bush's "My Way or the Highway" Mickey Mouse rulings) of Iraq and Afghanistan, is not how World History will remember it.

9/11 was used to "sell" the War on Terror...a Terror that was fictional, and not the first time the US has used Terror...yet you repeatedly deny the fact!!

Its really sad that you have no clue, after nearly 10 years, about your own Govt's underhandedness....

It then should come as no surprise to you when people call you out for the err of your ways...or your own lack of intelligent sustance, logical substance, not just your usual OS blabberings which are, at the very least, laughable!!

Yeah, sorry for you being born in the US, and having no choice....shame....I feel your pain.


esdad71...

no, thankfully I am not from Amerika...

..and for the record Saddam acquired his chemical weapons from the US..yup, you lot gave them to him and turned a blind eye when he used them(as you have turned your blind eye to soooo much..)on the Kurds.

You use this as justification for attacking and slaughtering thousands of civilians??

Because he had chemical weapons which you gave to him??

Right...clear as mud.


ignorance is bliss.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by benoni]

[edit on 20-4-2010 by benoni]

reply to post by benoni


Nope.

Let me say, firstly, and proudly...I AM NO FAN of George W. Bush, nor any of his accomplices in his Administration. Politiclly, I am staunchly Independent, with a left-leaning bias.

However:

9/11 was used to "sell" the War on Terror...a Terror that was fictional, and not the first time the US has used Terror...yet you repeatedly deny the fact!!

I am sorry, I love the Aussies....IF I ever were ever to emigrate, OZ would be on the top of my list, in the top five, at least. There are many, many similarities between our two peoples. Settling a new continent, and all... (Although, to be honest, in OUR generations?? It's ridiculous, since WE were born, had no choice, in our respective lands.)

WE had no influence on what went on before our births.....right?

OK, fair Dinkum.

I will never be an apologist for any actions undertaken by the government f the country that I happened to be born into citizenship, but your comment, up above, is a broad-based stupid statement....sorry.

Forgive me, but I live here, and you don't. Meaning, I have regular exposure to media sources that are NOT normally exposed to Aussie citizens. (Just as the reverse is true...)

The (past) U.S. Administration (that of George W. Bush) did NOT need the events of 9/11 to happen, in order to further their pre-planned (yes, I said it! THEY, the 'neo-cons', had a plan in mind...) agenda.

9/11 was an aberration, to their "plan"...but it slipped into their scenario 'nicely'. To them, it was a "bonus", an unexpected 'card', dealt in the 'game'....but, they didn't need it, because they'd already stacked the deck in many other ways.

(I am trying not to mix metaphors, here).

I realize this destroys so many "conspiracy" fantasies, but I'm afraid the reality is much, much simpler than the "conspiracy" hopefuls get....

The United States, under the Presidency of George W. Bush, was determined to INVADE IRAQ. No matter the 'pretense', and they had many...remember teh "Yellow Cake" debacle?

Or, every-other-day we were reminded of those "WMD"?

ALL BS!!! AND, 9/11? Not needed, the plan was well in place, beforehand.....

Originally posted by galloways

Originally posted by skeptic_al

Originally posted by pepesilvia
quick question - if the planes were different, then how did the people on the supposedly hijacked jets die or go missing?

It's not like you can just land them down in north dakota and do away with them. All planes are tracked via radar, radio, and gps. Ground towers know what the location is of any large aircraft at all times. en.wikipedia.org... Aside from radar and gps (equipped on passenger planes), the pilots are also constantly communicating with ground control towers throughout different airspace. So if these were not the same hijacked jets, where did all the missing passengers go?

Don't expect a reply from 911 Nutters, there job is to only to inform others
about what you are actually seeing, not to explain any circumstances leading
up to the event or after the the Event.

Maybe the FBI flew them all to a secret location, killed them and then drove
RC planes into the tower so nobody would get hurt. And there were no
hijackers at all. And those Mid-Eastern guys that went to Fly School were
American CIA Agents disguised as Mid-East guys.

Hope that clears that up.

The only nutters is people like you who hover round 9/11 forums all the time trying to prove your garbage and the US goverment who new nothing in advance and had nothing to do with 9/11

I have stated many many many times

The government is responsible because they continiously stick their nose where it doesn't belong.
And still do so to this very day, they learned nothing.

The government is not responsible for placing dynomite in the buildings,
nor driving RC Military Drones in the Buildings.

Weedy..

You and I have debated here before, and I know that you are not as NeoCon as others that support your views....

Yes, i remember the yellow cake, the "CIA "outings" etc...you are quite correct, Dubbya seemed so despotic he would do whatever he so wished, regardless of others opinions of his actions....

However, thats about all we have in common re. Geo politics..

There is NO news outlet that you have access to in the States that cannot be found on the Net, so thats pure claptrap, and you know it... and using that as your basis for suggesting your insight is greater with regards to the subject matter at hand is plain stupid..quite the contrary, as the MSM in the States "dumbed" the majority of your citizens with its Pop Culture...Who gives a s@#t what shoes J-Lo buys??

What media sources do you have access to that gives you the high ground pertaining to this debate?? None..sorry.
As for the"Iraq plan in place.."perhaps so, but theres no way on this planet that yet another miraculously convenient occurence, in this case 9/11,should just fall in Dubbya's lap....especially given the dozens of other coincidences that "just happened " to take place that day.....its just not possible.


I wonder what an actuary would make of all these "strange coincidences" if asked to calculate the odds on them all befalling Dubbya on 9/11......??

And equally confusing, why you, with all your US media exposure, cant see what lots of others are seeing......??

Can you not concede you were perhaps lied too???

Look, when you make these comparisons with people who make money it makes you sound jealous. So what if Bin Ladens family had investments. Look inot British royalty and the nazi party and you will find better links. It is ALL about money..bottom line.

however, you have jews and college kids driving VW's and Mercedes and were these not the people in WW2 who killed millions but now we drive their cars????

again, what IS the deniable flaw in this post. Would love to hear from the OP?
??????

able danger....ask clinton or was he too busy getting blown....

[edit on 20-4-2010 by esdad71]

Originally posted by benoni
Weedy..

You and I have debated here before, and I know that you are not as NeoCon as others that support your views....

Yes, i remember the yellow cake, the "CIA "outings" etc...you are quite correct, Dubbya seemed so despotic he would do whatever he so wished, regardless of others opinions of his actions....

However, thats about all we have in common re. Geo politics..

There is NO news outlet that you have access to in the States that cannot be found on the Net, so thats pure claptrap, and you know it... and using that as your basis for suggesting your insight is greater with regards to the subject matter at hand is plain stupid..quite the contrary, as the MSM in the States "dumbed" the majority of your citizens with its Pop Culture...Who gives a s@#t what shoes J-Lo buys??

What media sources do you have access to that gives you the high ground pertaining to this debate?? None..sorry.
As for the"Iraq plan in place.."perhaps so, but theres no way on this planet that yet another miraculously convenient occurence, in this case 9/11,should just fall in Dubbya's lap....especially given the dozens of other coincidences that "just happened " to take place that day.....its just not possible.


I wonder what an actuary would make of all these "strange coincidences" if asked to calculate the odds on them all befalling Dubbya on 9/11......??

And equally confusing, why you, with all your US media exposure, cant see what lots of others are seeing......??

Can you not concede you were perhaps lied too???

this is NOT about W....how can people call him ignorant yet blame him for 9/11...you all are delusional. he was a good president and protected us until 08.....get ready because the next attack is nuclear folks...be prepared...

Click here to learn more about this warning.

I have been a sporadic reader of ATS for quite some time, but haven’t joined until now. This particular thread prompted me to do so.

I have 10 questions (that I don’t have to back up with facts…because my questions are based on FACTS ALREADY KNOWN – you can look up the content on any of them). A lot of them are the same questions that many people have been asking going on nine years now. I’ll preface them with advice to lead anyone into them…

Any time the subject comes up in the future and you encounter a neo-conservative “lemming”, ex-bush lover(s) who support(ed) the removal of his/her (their) own rights for eight long years, you can ask them some questions that they either can't answer or will have to LIE to answer (which shouldn't be a problem for them although I can't imagine what the LIE might be).

Here are my questions:

1) Where was NORAD? Why did Andrews Air Force Base stand down and not scramble intercept fighter jets when our nation's people were under attack; when it was known that four planes were hijacked and missing in U.S. protected airspace for an hour?

2) Why did bush sit on his cowardly backside for nine minutes after he learned of the second tower being hit by a second plane?

3) Why did bush make a public announcement later saying that he knew about the FIRST PLANE hitting the first tower BEFORE he went into the classroom BECAUSE HE WATCHED IT ON TV (when it wasn't ever broadcast on TV)?

4) How did the Secret Service know that bush wasn't a target that day? How did they know those children were safe? If they didn't (in either case), ISN'T THAT INCOMPETENCE AND NEGLIGENCE to not move the children or bush?

5) WHY, when the rest of the country was under a no-fly zone, were all of the bin Laden family members flown out of the country from Tampa International Airport? Who approved the flights? Who coordinated them?

6) How can anyone explain all the “PUT OPTIONS” on American Airlines and United Airlines just prior to the attacks? Were a few people “in the know” that airlines were going to be hijacked (not only that but SPECIFICALLY which ones) and trying to profit on this foreknowledge?

7) Why did Larry Silverstein say, on video during an interview, that explosives were used?

8) Why did Norman Mineta positively identify dick cheney as the person who gave the order NOT TO SCRAMBLE MILITARY INTERCEPTOR JETS?

9) Why would Stanley Hilton risk his life to publicly tell of bush and cheney's complicity in the attacks?

10) Was the attack on the United States of America on September 11, 2001 an act of treason or a result of gross negligence on the part of its government?

I ask these questions seriously and knowing how divided our country became during those dark george w. bush years (I wasn’t very political before but guess which side I fell on ESPECIALLY AFTER I STARTED ASKING QUESTIONS), I fully expect to make some “enemies” right away and be attacked here. I hope not, but…whatever.

I know these questions can’t really be answered (by any of us “loyal subjects” anyway), but I truly appreciate you reading them.

One last thing My use of sporadic capital letters and words aren’t the sign of shouting that the internet children have decided it is. I just happen to be an older U.S. citizen from a time when this practice was used as emphasis. And I never capitalize dick cheney or george bush…simply as a sign of disrespect. In my opinion, it is the least they deserve.

I am always curious, going through all this 9/11 threads here at ATS. In the most cases, the thread was taken over by "skeptics" who must been paid by the American government. When you as ATS member want to know, who you shouldn't trust here, checks those threads.

After watching plenty of documentaries, for me there is a plethora of evidence, that it must have been made up.

Just look at one of the pilots of a plane, hitting WTC. His name was Mohammed Atta. His passport was found on ground zero coincidentally, on top of the debris of the WTC.

How could the passport be on top of the debris? First he hit the tower with the plane, there is a big fireball. The passport takes its journey to the moon and back, to be right in time there after ~40 minutes, to drop on top of the debris of the now collapsed building.

The next coincidence was the luggage of Atta. All bags made it onto the plane, but his got stuck on the baggage belt. And in this bag? A quran (of course), some books how to fly that plane and his final words. The luggage would have be stored in one of the storage compartmenrs of that plane, it was not cabin luggage. Is that smart, to have the books you need at a place in that plane, where you don't have access?

Is it smart, to have your final words in a bag, which is on a plane, who is supposed to be destroyed in a huge fireball?

But maybe he had just mental problems and forgot about that. Because they found several qurans he had "forgotten" in his car and so on.

Next time when they want to create some bull# evidence, they better talk with each other... To avoid multiple placements of the same evidential item.

Holger

Originally posted by esdad71

you all are delusional. he was a good president and protected us until 08.....

I must have been in coma up to 08, but how did he "protect" you, and who
are you being protected from.

All I remember he was responsible for killing at least 1 Million Iraqies,
trying to Find the pesky Weapons of Mass destruction that never existed.
Increasing the Governments Debt to pay for an ever Increasing Miliary
Debt to fight his Fake War on Terror.
Allowing the the Greed Ridden Wall Street to do whatever they liked,
and then screwing over the Tax Payers to keep them in Business so
that they can continue to screw over the Tax Payers.

So, If he's a "Good" President, then give me an example of
a Bad President.

Originally posted by truth?
That is exceptionally interesting and hardly surprising. The governement has tried to keep a tight lid on all things 9/11 related.
Im guessing for fear the American people realise that it was a coordinted
attack to gain support for a failing president and to help achieve not 1 but 2 wars, and it worked splendidly.
Essentially boosting a lame duck president to hero, guaranteeing him a second term, and giving him the ability to rape and pillage our rights and freedoms (Patriot Act anyone?) our childrens education (No Child Left Behind) and helping his buddies get rich at the expense of the American tax payer (worst depression in 50 years anyone?)

I personally don't think it was Bush behind the mess. I still say the Israelis were behind the whole thing. Just remember the 5 dancing Israelis in a white van being caught on tape to document the whole thing. It is a crazy world out there.

Originally posted by skeptic_al

Originally posted by esdad71

you all are delusional. he was a good president and protected us until 08.....

I must have been in coma up to 08, but how did he "protect" you, and who
are you being protected from.

All I remember he was responsible for killing at least 1 Million Iraqies,
trying to Find the pesky Weapons of Mass destruction that never existed.
Increasing the Governments Debt to pay for an ever Increasing Miliary
Debt to fight his Fake War on Terror.
Allowing the the Greed Ridden Wall Street to do whatever they liked,
and then screwing over the Tax Payers to keep them in Business so
that they can continue to screw over the Tax Payers.

So, If he's a "Good" President, then give me an example of
a Bad President.

I stated that as a president, with what he passed (PA), he protected us as citizens during his tenure. There was no martial law. We have not lost any rights. Nothing that you are stating and so many people complain about. How many home grown terror plots/attacks have occurred in the last year...Hasan comes to mind first with a president who did not comment for days.

Fake war on terror? Sorry, but you are still delusional. Bush killed 1 million Iraqis??? Cmon son, what kind of garbage is that? and there were WMDs but they wound up in Syria. As far as Wall street, here is a nice little article about what really happened although it mentions the devil Karl Rove...

online.wsj.com...

When Republican Richard Shelby of Alabama, then chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, pushed for comprehensive GSE reform in 2005, Democrat Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut successfully threatened a filibuster. Later, after Fannie and Freddie collapsed, Mr. Dodd asked, "Why weren't we doing more?" He then voted for the Bush reforms that he once called "ill-advised."

But Mr. Dodd wasn't the only Democrat to heap abuse on the Bush reforms. Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts defended Fannie and Freddie as "fundamentally sound" and labeled the president's proposals as "inane." He later voted for the reforms. Sen. Charles Schumer of New York dismissed Mr. Bush's "safety and soundness concerns" as "a straw man." "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," was the helpful advice of both Sen. Thomas Carper of Delaware and Rep. Maxine Waters of California. Rep. Gregory Meeks of New York berated a Bush official at a hearing, saying, "I am just pissed off" at the administration for raising the issue.

Democrats had ready allies among lenders accustomed to GSEs buying their risky mortgages. For example, Angelo Mozilo, CEO of Countrywide Financial, complained that "an overly cumbersome regulatory process" would "reduce, or even eliminate, the incentives for the GSEs and their primary market partners."

A bad president? How about the one we have who does nothing but lay blame and pass tax hikes disguised as health care reform. One who has played golf more in a year than Bush did in 8. Don;t get me started.....

However, that is all for another thread.

There is NO official story. That statement does not even make sense anymore when I read it on here. There is only what happened that day and you can make of it what you want but in the end 3000 people did die that day at the hands of not the US but terrorists.



[edit on 21-4-2010 by esdad71]

reply to post by C64Warrior


I'm afraid some of your facts are mixed up.

This is what happens on a tipic as complicated as this.

Just look at one of the pilots of a plane, hitting WTC. His name was Mohammed Atta. His passport was found on ground zero coincidentally, on top of the debris of the WTC.

NO. It was not Atta's passport. It belonged to Satam Al Suqami. The passport was found BEFORE the Towers collapsed.

Other types of allegedly 'fragile' personal items were found, too. In MANY other passenger airline accidents, by the way.

Take a search, and find out. Look into any of the recent (or past) crashes.

The passport takes its journey to the moon and back, to be right in time there after ~40 minutes, to drop on top of the debris of the now collapsed building.

Hyperbole much?

Some people just seem unable to comprehend how chaotic an airplane crash event can be. Consider a Northwest Airlines crash (on takeoff) of an MD-80 in Detroit, Michigan, back in 1987.

Only ONE survivor, out of nearly 200 persons. A little four-year old girl.

HOW could one Human survive a fiery, total disaster that killed everyone else on the airplane? (And a few people on the ground, too)?

THIS is not fantasy, it's a matter of public record, and can be looked up.

The next coincidence was the luggage of Atta. All bags made it onto the plane, but his got stuck on the baggage belt.

I know a guy who just recently flew from Washington, DC to Atlanta for his Aunt's funeral...a non-stop flight, NO connections. And, they lost his checked luggage!

Darn, stuff like that does happen!

And in this bag? A quran (of course), some books how to fly that plane and his final words.

More mixed up facts. Actually, it was a rental car, in the Airport parking lot, where the Aircraft Flight Manuals were found (and I presume, the Koran too...)

1) Where was NORAD? Why did Andrews Air Force Base stand down and not scramble intercept fighter jets when our nation's people were under attack; when it was known that four planes were hijacked and missing in U.S. protected airspace for an hour? There were not notified until there was no much time left. This was the fault of the FAA and no one making decsions in a timely manner. Also, you might train to handle one hijacking but not 4....

2) Why did bush sit on his cowardly backside for nine minutes after he learned of the second tower being hit by a second plane? Maybe as to not upset the children he was reading the book too? He was calm, collected and he finished what he was doing and left. What could he have done in those 9 minutes that would have made a difference? Really?

3) Why did bush make a public announcement later saying that he knew about the FIRST PLANE hitting the first tower BEFORE he went into the classroom BECAUSE HE WATCHED IT ON TV (when it wasn't ever broadcast on TV)?

4) How did the Secret Service know that bush wasn't a target that day? How did they know those children were safe? If they didn't (in either case), ISN'T THAT INCOMPETENCE AND NEGLIGENCE to not move the children or bush? Those minutes he sat there was the time they took to protect him. Why move him if he is in a place that can be protected. There no gross negligence here...none. The president is a target every day. Look into the film crew who was trying to talk to him that day...interesting story since he was in FL where the hijackers trained and lived.

5) WHY, when the rest of the country was under a no-fly zone, were all of the bin Laden family members flown out of the country from Tampa International Airport? Who approved the flights? Who coordinated them?

not even going to touch this. it is garbage. I know for a fact hey did not fly out of TIA that day as I live there. With SOCOM and CENTCOM right there do you think ANYTHING was in the air. Seriously...

www.snopes.com...

6) How can anyone explain all the “PUT OPTIONS” on American Airlines and United Airlines just prior to the attacks? Were a few people “in the know” that airlines were going to be hijacked (not only that but SPECIFICALLY which ones) and trying to profit on this foreknowledge?

Shenanigans....read this p lease....www.snopes.com...

7) Why did Larry Silverstein say, on video during an interview, that explosives were used? Never said explosives were used he said we pulled it...meaning the operation to save the building. It was the only one he had actually constructed.

8) Why did Norman Mineta positively identify dick cheney as the person who gave the order NOT TO SCRAMBLE MILITARY INTERCEPTOR JETS?

So in the event of an investigation into the shoot down of 93 there is no evidence. That is a true conspiracy. a few people who hide a secret and one person to be the front...

9) Why would Stanley Hilton risk his life to publicly tell of bush and cheney's complicity in the attacks? Why is this risking his life? Does that mean the cast of SNL should fear for their lives?

10) Was the attack on the United States of America on September 11, 2001 an act of treason or a result of gross negligence on the part of its government? We got caught with our pants down. At that time there was no way anyone would have attacked the US, but they did...



Any more questions?

reply to post by KeepYourEyesOpen


It's kind of hard to re-hash all this stuff -- because I've never gotten GOOD answers to these questions, and you can look at more BASIC agreed to facts like; where are the confiscated tapes around the Pentagon? Nothing but a big echo for response.

1) Where was NORAD? Actually they DID know about the hijacking even without the FAA reporting it to them. They get the RADAR feeds -- but theirs were getting "fake echos" because a special plane (I forget the name, just know that it's white), designed to send radar signatures for drills and to obscure a planes location was sending false blips to NORAD. It was excused as "part of the drill." However, when NORAD finally released their tapes of their "terrorism drills" that were concerning planes flying into buildings (remember, Condi saying; "Nobody expected people to fly into buildings" -- but it's even on a government security agencies logo) -- they were full of frustrated comments like; "Is this live? Repeat, is this a drill or is this LIVE?" The NORAD operators were totally confused.

The RADAR tapes were later destroyed by the head of FAA security -- so know knowing of a plane did a low pass over the pentagon and something was detonated to obscure the plane leaving (that's just my theory).

2) Two theories:
A)
Bush doesn't know anything about his responsibilities as President. He isn't really stupid, just a useless elitist who has always had people to "handle these sorts of things" -- everyone was probably waiting for him to tell THEM what to do.
B)
The kids were used as human shields. It's very likely NOBODY told Bush until after that this was a PNAC project -- and that his job was to cover up. But he might have been told something like; "We have something extreme going down on 9/11 -- just hold tight and deny it later, we'll get back to you." Because I doubt they'd want a billion dollar operation going sour and getting hung because Frat boy told a joke while drunk. So Bush might have figured; "I don't know what is REALLY going down, but if I'm surrounding by kids, then they are less likely to take me out." If the school was chosen for WHO the kids were -- it might support that notion. It also explains his "deer caught in the headlights look."

3) Bush was a coke addict. He probably saw the First plane strike -- I believe it WAS broadcast. Either that, or he saw a demo before it happened and spoke before he realized it might be important NOT to say it. It's not that he's stupid -- he just doesn't have good impulse control, so he's subject to blurting out the truth occasionally -- but that's only ever by accident.

4) Bush probably told them to sit tight. All they could do is bring it to his attention. If there is no immanent threat, then they'd have to wait for orders. But I don't know, it's one of the smaller issues.

5) A) The Bin Laden family needed protection from their best family friends; the Bush family.
B) It was important to NOT have the FBI interrogate them and perhaps get some backstory about UNOCAL, or that an Al Qaeda cell might have been duped because Bin Laden certainly wouldn't schedule an attack the DAY AFTER, his family is meeting with the Carlysle Group.
C) Bush wanted to implicate the Bin Ladens -- it was only on his order they were allowed to leave.

6) There were more than a few countries that were screaming at the Bush administration about an attack on the US, with some details. However, since they ignored the Israelis, Pakistanis, Germans, FBI agents and a few others -- it's probably standard procedure to NOT talk shop in front of the Peons.

7) I didn't know Silverstein talked about explosives -- he said; "Pull the building." Lots of disinfo on this -- but he didn't say; "Pull the firefighters." It's a small issue, but the GLARING LOGIC PROBLEM on this that makes Deniar theories look, as usual, feeble is that;
A) No Fire Chief is going to ask a building owner about the safety of his firefighters.
B) The other meaning of "Pull" is to pull down damaged structures -- its a stretch, but I don't think anyone is hooking up cables and cranes when a building is on fire and people are in the building.
>> Basically, there isn't much that it could mean other than "blow the charges." Maybe he had a tow truck hooked up to the bathroom sinks -- or he is out of his mind and that's a good trick for a guy who made $7 Billion free and clear without having to spend on cleaning up all the Asbestos.

8) Only July of 2001, Rules were put in place that would have made only THREE people the authority to scramble jets in the entire USA -- before that time, a top level Field commander could do it. So ONLY, Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld could have ordered the jets to scramble. So they were derelict in their duties if nothing else. It didn't require a "stand down" -- it required their AUTHORIZATION if I read the policy right. But likely, the pilot sitting in the F15 was chomping at the bit and Cheney actually said; "The order still stands." So they didn't technically lie.... just made sure no jets were scrambled by omission.

9) He must be a crazy Liberal extremist. This includes all other European nations and Canada, and about 90% of the population on earth.

10) There was very ACTIVE gross negligence and a LOT OF HELP. Osama Bin Laden, could not have conducted the drills, made the radar pings, failed to secure 3 crime scenes, shipped the scrap metal to China without independent testing, made the military let him escape at Tora Bora, made the FBI let his family fly away without questions, made Building 7 fall, made any of the buildings fall at "demolition speed" in any conceivable way, kept an investigation from taking place for over 4 years, forced Italy to make that bogus confession tape attributed to him, cause Bush to invade two countries that were NOT Saudi Arabia or Florida where most of the people came from and training took place.

If I spent a bit of time, I could fill about ten pages with things BIN LADEN COULD NOT DO. Like make all the cameras quit working at the WTC and Pentagon.

If the Bush Crime Family was complicit, they should be tried for treason, and if they were this stupid, we should use the National Security Clause in the Patriot Act to enact the exact same punishment -- you know, for the Greater Good?

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


Please tell me that your post is a joke. If not, my god I know now why our country is filled with pussies who will not pull the trigger...

reply to post by dragnet53


You know, I have a can of Elephant spray for the Backyard to keep
Elepahnts away. It must be working because I havn't had one Elephant
come into my backyard.

Obama hasn't actually done anything, there could have been nobody
sitting in the Oval Office and the end result would still be same.
So you can't say he's worse than Dubya, it's just a continuance.
And if you say Dubya was a good thing, and if things are exactly the same
then this can't be worserer.

There were NO WMD in Iraq until the US started using them in Iraq.
DU Shells, MOAB's, White Phosphorus etc...
DU shells, makes all the objects hit radioactive
MOAB and White Phosphorus are Chemical based Weapons.
And disperse over a wide area killing anything and everything that comes
into contact.

There were NO WMD in Syria at the time of the Invasion.