If a police officer attacks you for no reason, what can you do?

Good day to you, fellow ATS members.

I was not sure where exactly to put this particular thread, but in keeping with the "Survival" mode of this section of ATS, I was hoping this may come in handy here.

I ask my fellow ATS members this question: What can you do if a police officer attacks you for no reason whatsoever? There was an incident here in IL which took place about a month ago, where a police officer was caught on camera beating an unarmed and coperative person, right in front of his home. The news story can be read here:
www.huffingtonpost.com...

But i do not wish to go any farther into this particular instance, nor do I wish to turn this into a mudslinging, hate-the-police, type of thread. I have the upmost respect for the men and women in blue,and I do know quite a few who are in uniform on the streets patrolling my city of Chicago. But as we are aware there are always a few bad apples that will spoil the bunch. Again, I do not want this to turn into an-law enforcement, or anti-authority thread of hate. I would like to see reasonable answers and discussion.

But I digress. This is a question I have wondered for a while and after this incident, made me really wonder. What can I do if a police officer without any provication attacks me with a baton, fists, etc? After watching the video of the victim beaing beaten repeatedly, I came to ask, can I use self-defense agianst the officer? Is it a good idea to at least defend myself agianst such blows, or just sit there and let him/her continue to wail on me? I do have a black belt in hapkido/tae-kwon-do and a lot of it included self-defense agianst unarmed, knife, and gun threats and attacks. What are the ramifications if I were to use self defense and actually take the offending officer down in self-defense? No shooting, or using the officer's weapon agianst him (maybe just removing the clip and cocking the gun to release the bullet in the chamber), nothing excessively violent, just being able to defend myself until help arives. And if it does, should I run like hell? Stay for the backup? Pray for an onboard dash-cam to catch the incident? Eyewitnesses? Other police officers? Call the feds? (FBI)

You see the problems that can and will arise from such an incident. I know these do not happen often, but if it were to happen, what would be a proper way to go about such an incident? Any thoughts?

Thier was a woman last year in my city, who wrote letters and sued the police department here. African american woman, claims she was pulled over, made to get out of the car, and the cops held her and pepper sprayed her eyes. it was in our local paper. She went to the state, which was helpless, and then internal affairs* Its a very slow process, but form what i gather cops fear internal affairs being involved. i dont know what happened to the case.
My sister was telling me about 2 years ago, her freind was out at bars (about 28 at the time). DUI checkpoint downtown here was set up. They asked her to get out of car, and she was a little mouthy n rowdy with the cops, so i was told. i cannot say wether the police started it or she did...but one officer picked her up and bodyslammed her onto the pavement. what a man of men wouldnt you say
a woman at work, muslim woman, was telling me a muslim guy she knows, was driving through greenwich CT area one day. Thats a rich area. he was driving an old model nissan, so he stood out, from all the new arrogently bought cars, mercedes bentleys ect. she told me, they got him out fo his car, and they beat him 9 times with a night stick. he was in hospitol recovering.
I asked her why he didnt sue! it would have been lots of money he didnt have, and he knew the courts would side with the officers agisnt him, while he had no witnesses. sad isnt it?

If you defend yourself, chances are you'll wind up dead or in jail for a very long time for assaulting an officer. I wouldn't bet on the dashcam to vindicate you either: most of the time when they show police criminality it is diminished by the "it didn't capture everything" excuse.

The most practical thing is to let him vent his anger and hope for the best.

Not that I accept it as right or that I would follow my own advice, I'm just saying that it is the most pragmatic thing to do.

Of course you then run the risk of being murdered either accidentally or deliberately, and always risk serious injury.

*SNIP*

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[edit on Fri Apr 16 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

reply to post by ziggy1706


I understand completely what you are saying. That is why I am trying to gingerly have this thread not go overboard with the ultimate bad scenario of killing the cop. I do know the law is very much agianst you if you kill a police officer. And double bad is what his co-workers will do to you if they get their hands on you! That is why I am trying to see if there is any sort of way to protect myself in this case!

Also we have to deal with the problem of your word vs the officer's. Who will they listen to? Imagine if you are attacked, and you manage to bring the officer down in an arm-lock, headlock, chokehold, tasering him, or standing over him with his own gun keeping him down, and his backup arrives. Who's in trouble now?

Most states have laws that say it is not illegal to resist an unlawful arrest.

However, I wouldn't recommend resisting at all based on what we have seen in the past. Just try to make sure your in front of their dash cam, or some kind of rolling camera...

Just take your beating, and then sue them.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by webpirate]

reply to post by apacheman


I feel the same way.

I always try and keep out of trouble, or fights, and I always will try to avoid a fight if it especialyl senseless like at a bar. But I also know that if I get jumped by someone with a weapon, I am now fighting for my life. I do not know what the person has in mind for me, and I dont want to stop and ask, hey are you gonna kill me or just maim me? I will fight with a vengence until the threat is neutralized. And if the threat includs a knife or gun, i will not hesitate to put him down permanently.

But a police officer? I honestly dont know. I dont want to be beaten to an inch of my life, put in the hospital and have my family pay for it, and then worry if the case gets taken in by the courts, or Internal Affairs.

Even if I was getting arrested for no reason i wouldnt fight, just go with it and straighten it out at the station. But if, like in the video, I just get attacked with a club, while I am acknowledging the orders, I do not think I would take it laying down. Its a crazy scenario I wish to never get into.

[edit on 4/16/2010 by GenRadek]

i dont mean to advocate violence, but i feel, ide be in a situation where he is after my family too if they were with me. and for the courts to just take this monsters side..its arrogent and disgraceful.
well, ive thought about other ways fo fighting back..people not going out as much not spedning money, yeah it would hurt the economy, but blame it all on the local police. It would surely make news and tone things down alot. that would apint a disgraceful smearing image all over a police departments image.

Unfortunately, if it is not video taped then there is not much you can do. I have have had many friends assaulted by po and absolutely nothing has ever been done to give them justice. Example: Recently my friend was pulled over for being misidentified as a suspect in a robbery. The police told him to step out of the car. He did. Then, with guns drawn, they approached and ordered him to walk backwards towards them. He began to do so, and then one of the officers punched him in the back of the head and tried to grab control of my friend, in a rather desperate and panic style manner. My friend naturally began to resist with intentions of protecting himself, he broke free of the officers grasp and ran. He was pulled over on a over pass by the way. So he ran to the front of his car, as to put a barrier in between him and the officers. The second of the two officers came around the other side of the car and grabbed my friend. They wrestled as the first officer called for back up.. Then both officers were able to subdue him by the edge of the overpass. My friend is very street savy and good with his hands, so he was again able to break free. They began to beat him with there nightsticks as they chased and fought with him. Ultimately he ended up with a broken arm, a broken collar bone, a dislocated knee and many bruises and lacerations to his face and rest of his body. He was arrested for resisting arrest, and later let go. Long story short, he tried to sue the city for his medical bills and the case was throwing out. His family went to all the news stations and none of them would report or investigate on this because there was no video evidence.

Moral of the story, either bow down or get beat down.

reply to post by ziggy1706


Oh I know, but like I said, its a tricky subject!

That would interesting to try though, with staying off the streets, a sort of "boycott" the city that is allowign for such things to happen.

Personally I would prefer to see the old neighborhood ARMED watches to return to our streets. Just respectable citizens, armed, protecting our streets. They can do way more than the police. It always seems the police dont even curb violence. Another example from Chicago last night: 18 shootings, 7 deaths, all within a few hours of each other all over the southside. In one instance the police were responding to one shooting death, when someone opened fire less than a block away RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE COPS! That also happened last week as well. 20-30 police officers responding to a shooting at a neighborhood, and with cameras rolling and police swarming the block, shots ring out just down the block as gang-bangers opened up on a crowd that was watching the police action on their block. Now tell me, how can the police "serve and protect" if thugs commit brazen attacks in police presence?

What gets me the most..is the fake image of a global community. Youve seen the commercials bringng us together blah blah ect ect. The truth is, humans are barbaric animals that lvoe to blow things up, rape, murder and steel. Not all of us, but the potential regardless is in our genes and DNA.
Ide like to let our governemnt and corporate offices time to time, know global community dosnt work. All you gotta do is read the daily police brutatlity reports, the same force of corrupt cops set up by our leaders*
thats the biggest gimmick of all time for me.

IMMEDIATELY when u think you are to be pulled over, call a friend or relative , put the phone in your pocket or close by and speak loudly so as your friend hears what is being said--if there is a problem you have a witness.
Hidden tape recorder is handy also, and the new ones are stealthy.

Well just a quick google search for resisting unlawful arrest brings this up.

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

www.constitution.org...

Checking for other sources tend to link back to this one page. However it does cite specific decisions so i'm sure it could be confirmed one way or the other.

However I think the absolute best defense is to be sure you cover yourself. By that I mean keep a camera in your car, you get pulled over, switch it on. Inform the officer you will be taping the incident and proceed from there.

Obviously this isn't going to stop all of them from doing something stupid as evidenced by your link about the cop in IL. but it may help deter some of them.

Being an officer and having been in situations where SOME people would say I get physical for no reason, have NO IDEA of the circumstances and simply state their PERCEPTION. With that said there have been a FEW cases were cops, for whatever reason, took the offensive without any justification. Good news is all of those cases I know of the officer was fired, charged, or sued, if not all three.

I think this comes down to more of a PERSEPTION issue. Are you being attacked for NO REASON...like NONE...meaning a cop simply stops his car, gets out, walks up to you and starts kicking your a@@? Or are you saying you did something to draw our attention or a third party involved you and we are legally there to deal with that incident? Those are two VERY important questions that need to be answered before I, as an officer, can give you my true opinion.

reply to post by Hypntick


Thank you for that!

But a question about the wording: Unlawful Arrest. Obviously that means he is putting you under arrest unlawfully, but does that also cover getting assaulted before being told you are "under arrest"? Is it an arrest when he just comes at you swinging the baton and yelling get on the ground?

Make sure you stand in front of the police car so the dashcam can record it all and you can sue the city dry.

Also, you might try to yell rape to make the officer feel awkward for touching you.

Honestly if there are no witnesses, you are screwed. It's your word against his, and guess who's story they will believe.

Even if you have witnesses, depending on the town and how much of a "good ole boy" system there is, you may still be screwed.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Great!

What I am speaking of is in context of walking down the street or driving my car and getting pulled over, complying with the officer's order of the customary, "Hands where I can see them," "Get on the ground" "Lace fingers" etc, and then getting attacked with a baton or stomped, beated, etc. But also your point as well of just being jumped by the officer in question for no reason.

I know not to mouth off to cops, or resist arrest (like if he were to put cuffs on me, I'm not going to fight, cause that will make it worse of course ). I am always polite. I always speak clearly and without slang or disrespect. Luckily I have not been arrested or been in situtations like that, but I have been stopped by police on patrol just checking up on me with a few friendly words and hearty good night.

And I know that if I am an unwitting third party to a crime or with someone who committed a crime, all bets are off for me. I wont resist. But mostly what I was saying before, after complying with the officer in question, doing everythng he/she asks, and then for no reason getting my @$$ kicked and beaten with a club after complying. What can I do? And thank you I would appreciate your opinion on this as well!

[edit on 4/16/2010 by GenRadek]

Civil Rights

Property and Privacy Rights

Short answer: It's my understanding that if a Law Enforcement Officer attempts to make an illegal arrest - Constitutionally too mind you, you have the right to go so far as to even kill said LEO to defend your rights. This information has been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court and stands true today.

How many people know about this, let alone would try enforcing it, remains to be seen.

Government Abuses

Now it's quite a different thing if you are instead a Sovereign Citizen, which in that case Monetary Compensation may also be available, after you've killed the LEO that is.... Make sure you have an Apostille validated passport first lol... as your credentials as a Diplomat will be needed as well as to show your Diplomatic Immunity.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by DarkspARCS]