Psychics - you may not like this......

Originally posted by andy1033

Do you know that lottery winners have to go into hiding, and protect there families all there lifes. Who in there right mind would want to do that.

Also you will find it is dangerous for governments to find out info about people. They are always using people.

Randi challenge is just for the government. No one wins period, does not matter who you are.

Indeed, plenty of lottery winners end up worse off.

Claiming the Randi challenge is a government program is an extraordinary claim which requires proof. Back it up or admit you made it up.

Neither of these claims validates "psychic ability".

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Marsel
interesting but on the other hand you cannot deny that there is smthng more than deception in the whole process

As the old adage goes, I'll believe in psychic powers when one of them guesses the lottery numbers. Anyone who claims they are a "true psychic" is welcome to take Randi's million dollar challenge and prove psychic abilities to the world once and for all.

Randis challenge is there to find people, so the government can use them.

Stay away.

Lottery things are a waste, and if your truly spiritual you would find the idea of money rubbish. Do you people not understand how dangerous it is to win a lottery, lol.

People would kill you over 10p in the street. People are obsessed with money.

Winning lottery is serious danger.

Of course you people have not thought of that lol.

Ahh. I see.

The challenge is a government rouse, and presumably Randi must be an agent of sorts.

And, the lottery is super ultra mega dangerous.

Therefore, psychics are real?

Wow. Just wow.

*sigh* this debate is pointless.

James Randi doesn't accept non-famous psychics. If your name is NOT Sylvia Brown, you might as well forget about it. Not everyone looking for the truth is REALLY looking for the truth-That's all I will say.

Originally posted by Zerra

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Marsel
interesting but on the other hand you cannot deny that there is smthng more than deception in the whole process

As the old adage goes, I'll believe in psychic powers when one of them guesses the lottery numbers. Anyone who claims they are a "true psychic" is welcome to take Randi's million dollar challenge and prove psychic abilities to the world once and for all.

Randis challenge is there to find people, so the government can use them.

Stay away.

Lottery things are a waste, and if your truly spiritual you would find the idea of money rubbish. Do you people not understand how dangerous it is to win a lottery, lol.

People would kill you over 10p in the street. People are obsessed with money.

Winning lottery is serious danger.

Of course you people have not thought of that lol.

Ahh. I see.

The challenge is a government rouse, and presumably Randi must be an agent of sorts.

And, the lottery is super ultra mega dangerous.

Therefore, psychics are real?

Wow. Just wow.

*sigh* this debate is pointless.

James Randi doesn't accept non-famous psychics. If your name is NOT Sylvia Brown, you might as well forget about it. Not everyone looking for the truth is REALLY looking for the truth-That's all I will say.

Yes, the challenge is not for all people. Those rules were posted and I understand that.

However, I am interested in the poster's assertion that the challenge is some kind of a government operation.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Zerra

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Marsel
interesting but on the other hand you cannot deny that there is smthng more than deception in the whole process

As the old adage goes, I'll believe in psychic powers when one of them guesses the lottery numbers. Anyone who claims they are a "true psychic" is welcome to take Randi's million dollar challenge and prove psychic abilities to the world once and for all.

Randis challenge is there to find people, so the government can use them.

Stay away.

Lottery things are a waste, and if your truly spiritual you would find the idea of money rubbish. Do you people not understand how dangerous it is to win a lottery, lol.

People would kill you over 10p in the street. People are obsessed with money.

Winning lottery is serious danger.

Of course you people have not thought of that lol.

Ahh. I see.

The challenge is a government rouse, and presumably Randi must be an agent of sorts.

And, the lottery is super ultra mega dangerous.

Therefore, psychics are real?

Wow. Just wow.

*sigh* this debate is pointless.

James Randi doesn't accept non-famous psychics. If your name is NOT Sylvia Brown, you might as well forget about it. Not everyone looking for the truth is REALLY looking for the truth-That's all I will say.

Yes, the challenge is not for all people. Those rules were posted and I understand that.

However, I am interested in the poster's assertion that the challenge is some kind of a government operation.

Oh I doubt he works for the government in that way.

I don't trust him though, or his methods. Some thing just isn't right about it all when I read about it.

Regarding the lottery-If you believe in a psychic it means you believe in fate- can a psychic alter fate? (not if it's fate lol wouldn't make sense) If they receive info from a higher sourse it is not likely that higher source will end one person's fate-to win money nor would it be likely a higher source would condone gambling.

This is not to debate whether it exists or not but to simply explain how a certain belief system views it.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Zerra]

Originally posted by Zerra

Oh I doubt he works for the government in that way.

I don't trust him though, or his methods. Some thing just isn't right about it all when I read about it.

Most likely the policy stands to weed out every kook who wants a stab at a million bucks. If you've ever seen anyone take the challenge, it involves lots of people and costs a good deal of money to execute. And of course the challenge is not a government ploy.

Regarding the lottery-If you believe in a psychic it means you believe in fate- can a psychic alter fate? (not if it's fate lol wouldn't make sense) If they receive info from a higher sourse it is not likely that higher source will end one person's fate-to win money nor would it be likely a higher source would condone gambling.

This is not to debate whether it exists or not but to simply explain how a certain belief system views it.

I can see how you've arrived at that logic but at the end of the day it amounts to a finely woven tale that amounts to an excuse. Millions of alleged "true psychics" and not one can win a lottery and donate proceeds to charity, predict earthquakes and warn others to safety, foresee disasters such as 9/11 and attempt to stop it, etc. But they'll all have a great excuse for their shortcomings.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Zerra

Oh I doubt he works for the government in that way.

I don't trust him though, or his methods. Some thing just isn't right about it all when I read about it.

Most likely the policy stands to weed out every kook who wants a stab at a million bucks. If you've ever seen anyone take the challenge, it involves lots of people and costs a good deal of money to execute. And of course the challenge is not a government ploy.

Regarding the lottery-If you believe in a psychic it means you believe in fate- can a psychic alter fate? (not if it's fate lol wouldn't make sense) If they receive info from a higher sourse it is not likely that higher source will end one person's fate-to win money nor would it be likely a higher source would condone gambling.

This is not to debate whether it exists or not but to simply explain how a certain belief system views it.

I can see how you've arrived at that logic but at the end of the day it amounts to a finely woven tale that amounts to an excuse. Millions of alleged "true psychics" and not one can win a lottery and donate proceeds to charity, predict earthquakes and warn others to safety, foresee disasters such as 9/11 and attempt to stop it, etc. But they'll all have a great excuse for their shortcomings.

We can't 'create' a future and that's where people are mislead with the lottery. To tell someone lottery numbers is to defy 'fate' whether you believe in it or not it is the very table psychic ability stands on. To give out numbers is to 'create' a new future, which is impossible. If you understand fate you'd understand this and that psychics would be bound to that law that fate abides by. The same would be about changing fate, to change anything it would have to be the fate to change it..It's kinda confusing to word but I'm sure you can get its meaning.

I will say, truthfully- I read a man's cards one day and he was given-by me- some significant numbers. They were to be dates or number of people, etc. but I don't give lucky numbers ....The guy looked at me shocked and said- Those are the numbers I used when I won the lottery in such in such place- It was some far off city I don't know how much it was..but this experience leads me to believe it CAN be done..but the person has to have won already so you aren't altering anything. OR perhaps if a psychic meets with someone already destined to win-so it would change nothing. So I suppose that would be a small loop hole.


We're not all money hungry cons you know. We aren't all bad and we aren't all lumped into one box.

Originally posted by Zerra

We can't 'create' a future and that's where people are mislead with the lottery. To tell someone lottery numbers is to defy 'fate' whether you believe in it or not it is the very table psychic ability stands on. To give out numbers is to 'create' a new future, which is impossible. If you understand fate you'd understand this and that psychics would be bound to that law that fate abides by. The same would be about changing fate, to change anything it would have to be the fate to change it..It's kinda confusing to word but I'm sure you can get its meaning.

I will say, truthfully- I read a man's cards one day and he was given-by me- some significant numbers. They were to be dates or number of people, etc. but I don't give lucky numbers ....The guy looked at me shocked and said- Those are the numbers I used when I won the lottery in such in such place- It was some far off city I don't know how much it was..but this experience leads me to believe it CAN be done..but the person has to have won already so you aren't altering anything. OR perhaps if a psychic meets with someone already destined to win-so it would change nothing. So I suppose that would be a small loop hole.


We're not all money hungry cons you know. We aren't all bad and we aren't all lumped into one box.

Nobody said anything about creating a future. Presumably psychic ability would require vision of a predestined event (fate?) which hasn't occurred yet. Predicting tomorrow night's lottery numbers, a predestined event, would not be "creating a future" but predicting it. The desire to win it would not necessarily be driven by greed. As I said, the proceeds could be given to charity, or just as a way to prove the existence of psychic ability.

The story about giving out "significant numbers" is fascinating but doesn't seem particularly unusual to me. Really, any number set can be given out to a "believer" and they can find a way to assign significance to them.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Zerra

We can't 'create' a future and that's where people are mislead with the lottery. To tell someone lottery numbers is to defy 'fate' whether you believe in it or not it is the very table psychic ability stands on. To give out numbers is to 'create' a new future, which is impossible. If you understand fate you'd understand this and that psychics would be bound to that law that fate abides by. The same would be about changing fate, to change anything it would have to be the fate to change it..It's kinda confusing to word but I'm sure you can get its meaning.

I will say, truthfully- I read a man's cards one day and he was given-by me- some significant numbers. They were to be dates or number of people, etc. but I don't give lucky numbers ....The guy looked at me shocked and said- Those are the numbers I used when I won the lottery in such in such place- It was some far off city I don't know how much it was..but this experience leads me to believe it CAN be done..but the person has to have won already so you aren't altering anything. OR perhaps if a psychic meets with someone already destined to win-so it would change nothing. So I suppose that would be a small loop hole.


We're not all money hungry cons you know. We aren't all bad and we aren't all lumped into one box.

Nobody said anything about creating a future. Presumably psychic ability would require vision of a predestined event (fate?) which hasn't occurred yet. Predicting tomorrow night's lottery numbers, a predestined event, would not be "creating a future" but predicting it. The desire to win it would not necessarily be driven by greed. As I said, the proceeds could be given to charity, or just as a way to prove the existence of psychic ability.

The story about giving out "significant numbers" is fascinating but doesn't seem particularly unusual to me. Really, any number set can be given out to a "believer" and they can find a way to assign significance to them.

It's not a black and white ability where we only see the future-We have our own laws to abide by. We can't see a future that would create a new event-not fated- yes that would be creating events. If I saw the lottery numbers and grabbed the money for charity- the person meant by fate to win would have their life messed with- that could be quite the tangle web of events- a domino effect. I would be changing my fate, the charities fate, and the person destined to wins fate...be quite the karma to carry if the Other Side allowed for that. That's the best I can explain, if you still are not understanding i'm afraid I'll just have to let it go. It's hard for someone outside a belief to understand how another views it even when they do believe, let alone when they do not. Best to aks a psychic what they 'can' demonstrate and do than make up what they 'should' or what you 'desire' them to do, and go from there.
There may even be psychics who do see some events for games or a lottery but I imagine it would be their destiny to win it in the first place, ability or not.
[edit on 11-4-2010 by Zerra]

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Zerra]

I think the whole lottery issue has to be looked at like this. If you were able to predict the lottery numbers it would not be wise to tell everyone about it. I’m sure if you were a psychic and you could do this, on realization, you would probably give it a lot of thought and decide it would not be a good thing at all.

Even if a psychic did come out and claim the lottery say twice in a row, and they would have to do it at least twice to prove themselves, then how do you think the rest of the worlds lottery players would feel. More then likely the lottery organizers have a dedicated team to keep watch for this, even they wouldn’t like to see it happen.

But i would go as far as saying IMHO it has happened, but just like so many other things you and i will never get to hear about it.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Marsel
interesting but on the other hand you cannot deny that there is smthng more than deception in the whole process

As the old adage goes, I'll believe in psychic powers when one of them guesses the lottery numbers. Anyone who claims they are a "true psychic" is welcome to take Randi's million dollar challenge and prove psychic abilities to the world once and for all.

Randi is a psychic himself though of far greater power, and simply uses his to defeat all comers!

The secret of the Great Randi revealed!

Originally posted by Zerra

It's not a black and white ability where we only see the future-We have our own laws to abide by. We can't see a future that would change events- yes that would be creating events. If I saw the lottery numbers and grabbed the money for charity- the person meant by fate to win would have their life messed with- that could be quite the tangle web of events- a domino effect. Whether you believe in this ability or not it's not up to other people to make up rules and what we 'should ' be able to do. Ask one what they 'can' do and have them demonstrate. That's the best I can explain, if you still are not understanding i'm afraid I'll just have to let it go.

That is contradictory. If you could predict it, the "fate" was for you to win it. It's not changing fate or creating a new future. Psychic ability would require vision of predestined events and your claiming the win would have to have been predestined as well.

No offense, but so far you've thrown out several scenarios as to why a lottery win is unattainable through "psychic powers" and really they all add up to excuses. There are so many ways that a "psychic" could prove their ability but each of the most salient and convincing methods never occur and are always protected by excuses.

Good post by the way, i have seen lots of stuff on cold reading and its obvious when someone explains how its done. However i have also witnessed some strange stuff myself enough to know that Brown and Dawkins are not the be all and end all of psychics. Hang on i feel my favourite quote comin on......

"Hamlet:

Swear by my sword
Never to speak of this that you have heard.


Ghost:

[Beneath] Swear by his sword.


Hamlet:

Well said, old mole, canst work i' th' earth so fast?
A worthy pioner! Once more remove, good friends.


Horatio:

O day and night, but this is wondrous strange!


Hamlet:

And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Zerra

It's not a black and white ability where we only see the future-We have our own laws to abide by. We can't see a future that would change events- yes that would be creating events. If I saw the lottery numbers and grabbed the money for charity- the person meant by fate to win would have their life messed with- that could be quite the tangle web of events- a domino effect. Whether you believe in this ability or not it's not up to other people to make up rules and what we 'should ' be able to do. Ask one what they 'can' do and have them demonstrate. That's the best I can explain, if you still are not understanding i'm afraid I'll just have to let it go.

That is contradictory. If you could predict it, the "fate" was for you to win it. It's not changing fate or creating a new future. Psychic ability would require vision of predestined events and your claiming the win would have to have been predestined as well.

No offense, but so far you've thrown out several scenarios as to why a lottery win is unattainable through "psychic powers" and really they all add up to excuses. There are so many ways that a "psychic" could prove their ability but each of the most salient and convincing methods never occur and are always protected by excuses.

Not really at all. Haveyou studied philosophy? Anything with an understanding of how fate works? How on earth can a psychic get a vision about lottery numbers if it is NOT their fate to win it? That was my point. Getting a vision would mean it was their fate- but you said they SHOULD get visions of it- but how can they if it isn't their fate to have it????? That makes nooooo sense. excuses? no ..please understand fate first and a psychics place within it. It's not compatible. okay I give up b.c i don't think you're actually open to understanding a belief system that isn't your own since you're saying everything is an excuse- you asked..i answered...you throw it out- not my fault.

Originally posted by kode
Good post by the way, i have seen lots of stuff on cold reading and its obvious when someone explains how its done. However i have also witnessed some strange stuff myself enough to know that Brown and Dawkins are not the be all and end all of psychics. Hang on i feel my favourite quote comin on......

"Hamlet:

Swear by my sword
Never to speak of this that you have heard.


Ghost:

[Beneath] Swear by his sword.


Hamlet:

Well said, old mole, canst work i' th' earth so fast?
A worthy pioner! Once more remove, good friends.


Horatio:

O day and night, but this is wondrous strange!


Hamlet:

And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

I actually like your responce. It's honest and it is open minded. You understand the cons and the how its done, but you seem able to know a sign from the Other Side when you get one too.

In all honesty I don't care about the lottery. If it weren't for this ability my dad would be buried in the ground right now. They saved his life and I'm so greatful there is a God and angels and guides to watch out for us when they are allowed to. I have such awesome mind boggling experiences and I hope to share them all one day soon.
I wish for everyone to have one amazing spiritual experience in their life-at least one that is. Skeptic or believer, one experience.

reply to post by Zerra


Well you never know i might be a little pyschic myself.

But your right. Im more of an empath than anything else.

Nite nite.

Re: the lotteries issue

It's coincidental, because over Easter, we were discussing the Buddhist monk who predicted the national lottery numbers (in Laos, I think it was ) eleven weeks in a row

He wasn't seeking to profit, or at least that was the claim of the media. Instead, according to the report, he was giving the numbers to villagers

According to the news (it was approx. 7 years ago as far as we could remember) the government of that country closed the national lottery and the monk was arrested. None of us had seen any follow-up reports about what happened to him after that

If he'd managed to predict the numbers corectly even twice, it would have been against the odds, but to do it eleven times in a row surely implies the future has been written and some people, whether by meditation or other means, are able to access it at will

Originally posted by Dock9
Re: the lotteries issue

It's coincidental, because over Easter, we were discussing the Buddhist monk who predicted the national lottery numbers (in Laos, I think it was ) eleven weeks in a row

He wasn't seeking to profit, or at least that was the claim of the media. Instead, according to the report, he was giving the numbers to villagers

According to the news (it was approx. 7 years ago as far as we could remember) the government of that country closed the national lottery and the monk was arrested. None of us had seen any follow-up reports about what happened to him after that

If he'd managed to predict the numbers corectly even twice, it would have been against the odds, but to do it eleven times in a row surely implies the future has been written and some people, whether by meditation or other means, are able to access it at will

That is really cool. I always thought there must be someone'fated' to do this but not every spiritual being out there as that would create chaos for sures. but if true..really neat!

Originally posted by Zerra
[
Not really at all. Haveyou studied philosophy? Anything with an understanding of how fate works? How on earth can a psychic get a vision about lottery numbers if it is NOT their fate to win it? That was my point. Getting a vision would mean it was their fate- but you said they SHOULD get visions of it- but how can they if it isn't their fate to have it????? That makes nooooo sense.

That's right. It makes no sense. A psychic can presumably foresee predestined events, such as a lottery drawing, but also cannot see it because it's not their "fate"? That is 100% contradictory.

There is no particular evidence of fate, nor predestined events, nor psychic ability. Using an unproven notion such as fate to provide an excuse for the failure of the unproven abilities of psychic powers amounts to an excuse. And arguably the least convincing one so far. Let's see some proof and evidence instead of excuses.

I am hesitant to reply to this thread given the blatant negativity and skepticism in OP. I will only add:

How can one enjoy hearing music without listening?

How can one see the beauty of art without looking?

How can one experience the abundance of the universe without being open to receive it?

I know what I know and see what I see. It is not a practiced or conscious effort.
I don't make predictions and make no claims of my ability. I have always been this way, it was not learned but rather refined over time. My ability is low compared to many others I know. Think of it as keen intuition if you are unable to accept that some folks simply shine.

To make the claim that no one can be naturally "gifted" is to diminish anyone with an innate musical, athletic or artistic talent.

As far as the lottery......get a quick pick. Good luck.



[edit on 11-4-2010 by kinda kurious]