Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and the Officers Would Take Care of Us"

reply to post by Jazzyguy


911 was a false flag operation by the bush administration to manipulate the american people into war.

And most americans fell for it hook line and sinker.

Most Americans are just not catching on to the manipulative games TPTB are playing because most are too busy watching dancing with the stars and reading twilight vs educating themselves as to what is actually going on.

There are real monsters, and they are our politicians in Washington.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by ofhumandescent]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
War is hell to begin with ... throw in battle fatigue, a hard to identify enemy, panic, poor planning, poor leadership, vague ambition, and a plethora of other issues and this is the result. Same happened in Vietnam.

ALL OF THIS is on the shoulders of those who chose to wage this war and lied to justify it ... the blood is on their hands, and ours, for we continue to allow it.

I agree that it has become a meat grinder, with no real objective. The Middle East is so fractured, the only real progress has to come from them. As soon as we leave it will go down the tubes. I guess that is why we think that we need to stay there until the end of time?

And all of this is on the shoulders of every American alive today, over the age of 18. We allow this to happen every day, and do nothing to stop it. Blame no one but yourself, is a good way to put it. I blame myself, every day it goes on.

Every day the military industrial complex laughs as the money rolls in, and nameless faces die. Something has to change...but it never will.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by Yog-Sothoth]

reply to post by Reign02


What is the scientific method you are using to gauge your percentages on. Do you have some method to accurately measure morality that we mere humans are not privy too? The fact that people get outraged is generally what keeps numbers of people from repeating the same atrocities by and large. Peer pressure is all that is. As for why people don't get outraged over other bad things that go on in the world. They do, your just being selective about what you see. Look again at those atrocities and I'll wager they pissed some people off. And maybe more people would be upset if they were aware. It's not like you can trust the media. To say war is hell, that's how it is. Think again. War is what those fighting it make it to be. I'd prefer the soldiers to not have a "well that's how it is" attitude and take on a hey "maybe you're not really my enemy just cause they say so, after all" mentality. On both sides of the fence. Personally, I think the citizens of the world who want peace should unite and slaughter all those who want division and war. One final battle. Then, they can lay down their arms and move toward a real peace with no head and no foot at the table to rule. But those are just dreams. I live in a gang infested town and they have new rules of engagemnent- everyone is a target, even their friends can be shot without warning by them. And they have decided that they want to start killing off peoples kids, because they can. Those are the youth you are enlistingf and sending to war. The gangs have been signing them up to get the training to improve business and enforcement when they return. So maybe you should open your eyes a little wider and take a real look at your world. That's just the way it is mentality has been quite successful. Thanks.

Originally posted by Portugoal
reply to post by OverSword

 

I saw that already and know exactly what I'm talking about. I'll acknowledge there were weapons on 2 of them. But again to say lets engage is a little extreme. I'm sure the city is full of guns. Let's shoot up. I'm sure my city is full of guns. Let's kill everyone. You can't try to say that they were all insurgents.

Now, I've seen so many people try to justify what was done. One uses the superior techonology of America to explain the laxness of the "insurgents." So if these people weren't as bloodthirsty as they appear to be in the video, they would analyze the sitaution, ground and air troops.

To me it all sounds like they want to improve their kill/death ratio and laugh it up a bit.

As for the "Major League Infidel" , like I said, I'd be scared #less myself. But look at the situation. Both groups should've been able to realize they were not about to engage anyone. In terms of editing, I can see that the "RPG" looks an awful lot like a camera and nonetheless it is not pointed at the chopper (both groups of troops should've realized this). Without editing I can see that the people seem to be pretty relaxed. Without editing I can see that the guy who's crawling on the ground is not near or looking for any weapons yet they are ready to kill him. Without editing, I hear them laughing at shooting people, driving over bodies, and blaming the kids injuries on the insurgents.

Sounds like adequate training and professionalism to me.

Let me explain this to you. the people in the video could not see nor hear the helicopter. The apache was there to provide CAS for ground troops. Which means someone called them in because they were in contact with hostiles or an IED went off. Or it was a planned operation going on which required air craft.

your reasoning is that because only two were carrying rifles you should let them go? You don't understand that not all insurgents are going to carry weapons. They are not an organized military. Some act as spotters for other fighters so they can find us with little risk to themselves. they could be carrying grenades under their clothing. Anti tank grenades are very popular right now with them. They could be an IED team armed with only cell phones moving to a position so they can see the IED and detonate them. they could have been moving to a weapon cache for heavy weapons. The fact is they were armed in a area with fighting going on.

About them being lax, well that doesn't mean anything either. As stated before they cannot see nor hear the apache. The helicopter can engage targets for a very long distance. There are videos of apaches killing an IED team who are blatantly digging a hole. just because there was fighting going on near by doesn't mean they are going to run around. They could have been relatively far away from the fighting, they could have been coordinating with other groups, or waiting for orders. basically a hundred reasons why they could be doing the things they are. you know insurgents carry cameras to film their attacks. Even if they realized they were cameras doesn't mean they are not hostile. It's a crappy situation.

Yes, the gunner and pilot wanted to kill the guy they thought was an insurgent. They wanted him to pick of a weapon so they could kill him. You don't know what they have seen. Their job is to protect American ground troops. They have probably killed insurgents before, and unfortunately you become desensitized to the act. It doesn't help that all you see is a picture and a silhouette of a human. How would you feel if we followed your logic and didn't engage because not all had weapons. Then you hear the ground unit you were protecting was attacked and two Americans were killed.

We do not know why the helicopter was called. continued below.

reply to post by jerico65


actually at the time of the revolution the king of england was also the king of france. you remember france our ally whom we borrowed money from. so the king of england payed for a war against us colonists on one front then loaned us money through france to fight him on the other. then a deal was struck and the war was over. funny if we were the victor why did we cede the mississippi river to england as well as conceeding a few other things. why would the victor concede anything? that war was as false as this one. note that the signers of the declaration, 9 of them were esquires-lawyers for the lawyers guild of london who swore an oath to the king of england. who's not revising history again?

This kind of war criminal butchery is why commanders encouraged troops to collect 'drop' weapons, so whenever they mass murdered or got done raping civilians like these they could drop a weapon beside their atrocity & claim they were 'insurgents'.

Notably about the Armored vehicle running over a survivor & the helicopter psychopaths laughing about it,

This wounded man was crawling away & then they severed his body in half by running over it, & then they laugh.

COMPLETE PSYCHOPATHS IN US MILITARY UNIFORMS.

Is this America's military or is this the worst kind of inhuman atrocity committed by warped, sick individuals & their complicit commanders in US military uniforms?

[edit on 8-4-2010 by slank]

reply to post by Ouroborus2012


I agree. The logic is circular. We kill civilians because they're in the wrong place at the wrong time, they kill us because we're killing them. Now they're killing us so we kill more of them. They see us killing them off in larger numbers so they kill us to save themselves. Pretty soon, no one cares about orders or oil fields anymore, they just don't want to die.

Utter bunk, a woman with a sack would not be anything the Rules of Engagement covers, besides, you do NOT use a MK19 on insurgants unless they are under cover, they have M4's they should shoot on them.

I believe this story is just there to demonize the US more in light of the video release, besides they didn't even know what part of the military was involved in the shooting involving the AH-64 Apache.

I am not defending the actions done by the Marines and US Army but they would clearly be acting outside the set ROE (which became more STRICT over the years not lax).

Most of the people here have an elementary understanding of the military and the wars. I could write two pages on why things happen like this. Why the pilot and gunner were CORRECT to engage. The outcome was an unfortunate event that could have been avoided if the people on the ground did not do stupid things. Most of you here generalize and have a holly wood view of the US troops.

They should not be carrying firearms around the street in a large group. I do not know what the journalist were trying to document. They should be wearing flak jackets and helmets to distinguished them from the local populace. If they were interviewing insurgents they put themselves in that situation. If you go out there not embedded with US troops or Iraqi forces their safety cannot be guaranteed.

Here's something people should realize. They pilots are not stupid sadistic people. They are most likely college graduate and of above average intelligence people. Army helicopter flight school is very tough to get into and you must be very intelligent to get in. They cannot have any severe mental problems to be allowed flight status.

The ROEs are there to allow the combat arms to protect themselves and protect the innocent. If ROEs are to strict it puts troops at a disadvantage and an aide to the enemy, but allows civilians maximum protection. if ROEs are to loose, the soldiers can maximally protect themselves, but puts civilians at a huge risk.

You have to find a balance, but how do you weigh such an option? many people here don't understand the reality of the situation.

From what i understand if the people in the street go inside a building they cannot engage unless people are being fired at from that building. That is why they tried to engage as fast as possible.

If you saw what they saw you would be forced to engage, or you are putting your own guys at risk. You can explain to the unit you are entrusted to protect that some of your guys are dead, because there was a chance that guys walking around with weapons in a hot area might not have been hostiles.

you can think all you want how twisted these guys are for laughing when a vehicle ran over a body. It's sick, but people become like that under the stress they experience. World war two Marines acted just like that. Be thankful these people keep the wolves away from the sheep like you. Military service in combat arms is a sacrifice. The also sacrifice happens to your mind and a lot of these young kids lose their innocence. They have the mind of an older person long before their time. It's because they have seen loss

Nobody here mentions the young soldier running the wounded children to a bradly fighting vehicle to med evac them. The pilots make a comment about not bringing your kids to a battle. They truly thought all of the people they killed were hostile. Imagine what they felt when they found out they were not?

They followed the ROEs correctly and most of the time civilians are not killed like this. It was an unfortunate event and many lives are damaged because of it. It is not something that should shock people unless they are ignorant about that war. Mistakes happen and will stop happening because US forces are withdrawing from cities.

Originally posted by OverSword
Again.... before you judge the apache pilot please check the following page.
mypetjawa.mu.nu...

Hello,
Sorry friend, but don't insurgents tend to hide from view prior to launching an attack? These men had nothing to hide, and were not hiding. They were in plain view for all to see, IMO. And the van to come for them, Why don't they wait until it's safe to retrieve the bodies. I mean, after an attack like that, do you really expect any survivors?

And the link-to page? Spin-city IMO.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


It's sick what is going on in the current wars... war has always been, and always will be nasty, but there is much more currently going on than needs to be... in fact NO war has to be going on. If the soldiers would open their eyes and see what they're actually fighting for, and the horrible atrocities they are committing, maybe we'd have some peace in this world.

These soldiers are openly admitting to these horrible acts, and yet I see them doing nothing about it. Yes I know there have been a lot more speaking out than before, but OK you spoke out - what are you doing about it now?

No offense to anyone serving, because I understand how hard it must be, but it must be even harder to try and act blind to the truth and keep fighting for the 'cause' - so if you can do that, then you can stop fighting. Simple as that.

Originally posted by PhyberDragon
actually at the time of the revolution the king of england was also the king of france. you remember france our ally whom we borrowed money from. so the king of england payed for a war against us colonists on one front then loaned us money through france to fight him on the other. then a deal was struck and the war was over. funny if we were the victor why did we cede the mississippi river to england as well as conceeding a few other things. why would the victor concede anything? that war was as false as this one. note that the signers of the declaration, 9 of them were esquires-lawyers for the lawyers guild of london who swore an oath to the king of england. who's not revising history again?

Wow, that was very interesting, but had absolutely nothing to do with the professionalism of the Continental Army and the Militia that were fighting for the colonies in the Revolutionary War, which is what I was discussing with that other poster.

But you just keep on rockin' with your bad self.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by jerico65]

reply to post by slank


Do you actually believe what you wrote, or are you a troll?

eikmun:

was an unfortunate event that could have been avoided if the people on the ground did not do stupid things.

'Stupid things'?

Like walking around conducting daily business?

MY GOD, you don't expect any code of conduct or behavior from the US military. A GOOD military fine hones discipline to a fine measure of behavior,

it would be ACTUAL WORK,

not just a defense contractor rape, murder spree, treasury looting sweep of atrocities.

This kind of COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY ACTION is exactly what CREATES TERRORISM instead of reduces it.

YOU are a SPONSOR of terrorism,
which make you, just like Iran, equal to another terrorist.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


"As the son of an officer and the grandson of a decorated WW2 vet, I was sadened by watching the film. It will haunt me way into my next life. Such as what the "show" prooved, I can only say: These people were either high on meth or they were ruling along a line not pleasent for their future nightmares. *deep breath* My education may be lethal, but I am trained not to resist. Told not to use my weapon. Never to engage in any combat unless provoked. I was trained to heal such men. Never concidering which side they're on. My greatest concern is to keep my kit clean and never switch knives, never use up my spirits. Never give the morfin lest my child back home might never have a medal to play with, to learn how an ounce of cheap metal can heal wounds of one who saw and witnessed beasts kill birds with cannons, stunning dragons with batteries, angels with pointed objects, children with blunts. Old men with their own canes. Apocalypse is now. It starts today"

Originally posted by loveguy
Sorry friend, but don't insurgents tend to hide from view prior to launching an attack? These men had nothing to hide, and were not hiding. They were in plain view for all to see, IMO.

The area where these guys were at was a suburb called, "New Baghdad" that was really an insurgent-run slum. US troops were always in contact when they moved thru that area. It always was next to Route Predators, which had the highest IED rate for that time of year.

They were moving casually in the open because it was their home ground.

Originally posted by loveguy
And the link-to page? Spin-city IMO.

And Wikileaks isn't?

Originally posted by slank
Like walking around conducting daily business?

With an AK-47 and a RPG? What sort of "daily business" is conducted with those???

reply to post by jerico65


If Iraq suddenly controlled YOUR area, wouldn't you grab the nearest rifle and guard the people of your neighbourhood from insurgents from the sky, black-ops turning night to day and what not? You have too safe lives to understand what it means to live in occupies territory. The war was unfounded, but you're still there fighting normal regular Joes, defending themselves against a machinery using merely basic arms. If LA was occupies, wouldn't you be dwarved into the same position?

I just watched ABC tonight

a US General presented 2 goats as a plead for forgiveness because US FORCES attacked the WRONG house belonging to a father whoes children had just celebrated a BABY SHOWER!
THE TALLY? killed his 2 sons and their pregnant wives.
WHAT COUNTRY?, HA! what do you care?

It appeared to work, the dad was saying "I have no more grudge"


YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF SUCCESSFUL AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY, MILITARY MIGHT & YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK.

now to sports ..............

Tiger woods Televised mea culpa has worked and the $ are flowing again.................................

[edit on 8-4-2010 by dalek]

[edit on 8-4-2010 by dalek]

Originally posted by dalek
a US General presented 2 goats as a plead for forgiveness because US FORCES killed his 2 sons and their pregnant wives.
WHAT COUNTRY?, HA! what do you care?

It appeared to work, the dad was saying "I have no more grudge"

YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF SUCCESSFUL AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY, MILITARY MIGHT & YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK.

Did you ever think that in that region of the world, giving the goats is asking for forgiveness in such a case?

Totally different culture.

Originally posted by dalek
now to sports ..............

Tiger woods Televised mea culpa has worked and the $ are flowing again.

I heard that the Rev Al Sharpton was mad at Tiger because he didn't show any diversity in the skanks he was screwing around with.