Hitler's Third Reich 'wonder weapons' finally put to the test.

reply to post by yellowcard


It would have been very quickly rendered useless by aircraft in WW2.
Top speed? not too quick I imagine!

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by yellowcard

 

It would have been very quickly rendered useless by aircraft in WW2.
Top speed? not too quick I imagine!

The thing is so huge they could have put an AA on the tank...besides it all psychological.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Keep in mind: The Nazi's had all the scientists that the US ended up with. Why would we think that they didn't have the capability? They did EVERYTHING before us. If you really look at it, it appears like they lost the war on purpose. Or like they didn't care about winning the war, but rather were using the war as a tool to achieve another end.

Sorry, but revising history through ignorance of the subject is dangerous.

The Nazi's may have developed many fancy programmes and concepts, but very few left the drawing board and were therefore merely drawings. There is an industry in glamorising and over exaggerating Nazi technology.

The gradual collapse of Nazi Germany saw a breakdown in coherency of e.g. aircraft design with little or no control over design and increasingly ridiculous concepts. Towards the end of the war the Nazi's were living in fantasy land with nice designs (wind tunnels et al), but a lack of skills and resources to build the jet engines and prototypes! Fat lot of good the designs are when the airfield has been flattened.

It would be useful to name what the Nazi's developed before the US. Most technologies were developed and productively deployed by the British before the US (and Germans) anyway - radar and jet engines, for example. The only technology the Nazi's led on (with the exception of extermination camps) was rocketary, but like all advancements it was countered by the allies. V1s were shot down by fast fighters and radar controlled AAA and V2 sites were bombed into rubble by the British and US airforces.

The Nazi's did not lose the war on purpose. They were soundly defeated. Their industry was broken and starved of resources. They lost control of the air war in 1944 and that was that. The Soviets from the east and the allies from the west and south. No chance. History and fact has proven me right.

Regards

WWII Aircraft would have taken them out. The Rat was a GIANT but lets consider the Bismarck that was even bigger and Aircraft did a lot of damage to it. I'll say this for the Germans though. They were and are excellent engineers. No Doubt about it.

As far as the Allies "Top" secret military projects go? We didn't lose and have our top secret projects and Top Scientists hoarded and fought over by the winners. For the most part we still to this day don't really know ALL our own secrets.


[edit on 2-4-2010 by SLAYER69]

The basis of the atom bomb was developed by the British. They gave their research to the Americans who then built it. All the brain work in WW2 came from the British. British brains and American brawn.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
WWII Aircraft would have taken them out. The Rat was a GIANT but lets consider the Bismark that was even bigger and Aircraft did a lot of damage to it. I'll say this for the Germans though. They were and are excellent engineers. No Doubt about it.

Beat me to it Slayer.
I was going to say this "rat" tank concept was rather like a battleship on wheels.
Battleships sure had their day of glory, but air power made the battleship obsolete.

Just as todays missile technology will very soon make aircraft carriers obsolete.
When the US quickly loses two or three carries in this coming war, that will be the end of the large Nimitz sized aircraft carrier.

Originally posted by paraphi
Sorry, but revising history through ignorance of the subject is dangerous.

The Nazi's may have developed many fancy programmes and concepts, but very few left the drawing board and were therefore merely drawings. There is an industry in glamorising and over exaggerating Nazi technology.

And there is a vested interest in having people believe the story that is told.

Have you seen The Red House Report? If not, look at it. If the facts of history hadn't played out nearly identically to that plan, it would be horribly far fetched given the official historical account.

When we seized the Nazi patent archives, we carted off millions of pages of documents. We then sold them off to US industry (or kept them for covert development) and proceeding to dominate the world.

Add to this the Project Paperclip scientists. Without them, the Saturn rocket would never have been developed (we wouldn't have made it to the moon when we did), and Russia would have owned space (they were making it to space before we could even get a working prototype off the pad).

The gradual collapse of Nazi Germany saw a breakdown in coherency of e.g. aircraft design with little or no control over design and increasingly ridiculous concepts. Towards the end of the war the Nazi's were living in fantasy land with nice designs (wind tunnels et al), but a lack of skills and resources to build the jet engines and prototypes! Fat lot of good the designs are when the airfield has been flattened.

Well, their demise was (on the surface) due to a horrible system of supervisory management. There were overlapping areas of ownership, often with egos being the driving force behind decisions. The beaurocracy was so bad that nothing could move. They were like a muscle man having a seizure...all the power in the world, but a complete misfiring of direction causing lots of action and no progress.

Of course, as i mentioned before, this is hard to believe. The Nazi's were highly intellectual in every way. I cannot believe that they would mismanage their government to such a degree as to make their strength completely pointless.

Unless I consider concepts such as presented by the Red House Report, or postulated by Protoplasmic Traveller.

Regardless, if it is true that the Nazi's just shot themselves in the foot, then they did. It doesn't change their innovation. Germany (and surrounding area) were responsible for most of the breakthroughs in the first half of the last century (Einstein, Heisenberg, Scharbauer, Von Braun, et al).

It would be useful to name what the Nazi's developed before the US. Most technologies were developed and productively deployed by the British before the US (and Germans) anyway - radar and jet engines, for example. The only technology the Nazi's led on (with the exception of extermination camps) was rocketary, but like all advancements it was countered by the allies. V1s were shot down by fast fighters and radar controlled AAA and V2 sites were bombed into rubble by the British and US airforces.

Geez, where would i start? Radar and all that are really sweet and all, but that is only part of the larger picture.

Rockets
machines guns (Sturmgewehr, or STG)
night vision
they were the first in space
U Boats

There are tons more. You can start by looking at the Wunderwaffe. From there, look into the patents that were sold in the US, and then realize that Russia got about the same haul, and Canada got a little bit too.

The Nazi's did not lose the war on purpose. They were soundly defeated. Their industry was broken and starved of resources. They lost control of the air war in 1944 and that was that. The Soviets from the east and the allies from the west and south. No chance. History and fact has proven me right.

Regards

Well, i would not expect people to believe anything else. 60 years of propaganda has made finding any truth in that story nearly impossible. Whatever the truth is, the official story isn't it.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

dude the wunderwaffe is crazy! Some of those ideas are insane, and they even had helicopters? jesus.
I had this history-know-it-all correct my essay in school and my story involved a helicopter pickup during world war 2, only for histo-buff to condemn my lack of knowledge with regards to "helicopters not being invented" at that time period.
Suck on that histo-douche!

Well...

It wasn't Korean War era material but they flew.



[edit on 3-4-2010 by SLAYER69]

[edit on 3-4-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


If it weren't for a lucky Torpedo, the Bismarck would have made it back to home port. Even then it took tons of hits to sink it. I don't think any opposing Ship wanted to see the Biz around them.

Postwar calculations by the United States Navy showed, that against the 16 inch/45 caliber guns firing a 2,242 lbs (1,018 kg) AP shell mounted on the North Carolina class battleships, the Bismarck's protection scheme provided the ship`s machinery an immunity zone between 11,000 metres and 21,000 metres, while the magazines were even better protected, being safe from hits between virtually point-blank range out to 25,000 metres

Even 16 inch guns wouldn't have done the job.......
With a proper fleet around it, it would have tore through things.

Weel the nazis had a giant super canon on tracks. I always thought it was rediculous....its an easy target to hit with an airplane or jet with a bomb ready to be dropped.
As another ember stated, they shold have staye with the tiger tanks at least, or stolen the t 34 tanks and modified for their use. Hitler was obbsesed with his outadted belvoed panzer tanks. thier weakness? the gas tanks..once you bazookad them, end of game for the tank, being they were mounted ontop in the back. Hell even a moltov cockatil probably could have done the job.
Hiteler was working on the atomic bomb. The worlds first B 2 bomber, and jets..but instead, his beloved messerschmidtts...becoming outdated as well. Had he flown his jes, i forget thier name, but know what they look like, thiers a good chance he would have had total air supremacy. even though they lated a few minutes only in the sky, they were much much faster, and in alrge number could have eaily shot allied planes down form a distance of safety.
I think t was hitler was worried about money* all this technology costs money...so thats why he stayed with what he stayed with.

reply to post by pavil


Well lets see...

I would put it at the Japanese Yamato class, then the American Iowa class and finally Germany's Bismarck class which there were two built.


Staying in the realm of German tech.


To be fair. IMHO




Edit to add this great link.

Enjoy

LOL!

[edit on 2-4-2010 by SLAYER69]

helicopters? I have pics somewhere of operational US helicopters aboard ship in the South Pacific at the tail end of the war.
A for a "lucky " torpedo and the Bismark, well, the ol' Yamato made quite an explosion didn't it! Allied airpower had the Bismarks number, no "proper fleet" would have saved her.
US tech had TV guided missles by wars end, lots of high tech that wasn't dependant on German scientists.
And we did have the unmatched B-29 that laid waste to Japan, practically unopposed. But the A bomb was the trump card, NOBODY else had it, and it would have taken the USSR many years longer if they didn't have such an extensive and good spy network.
People glorify and mythologize German weapons.Baloney.
As someone pointed out, NAZI Germany was utterly crushed.
So much for "wonder weapons"!

Originally posted by OldDragger

People glorify and mythologize German weapons.Baloney.
As someone pointed out, NAZI Germany was utterly crushed.
So much for "wonder weapons"!

Those wonder weapons helped us get to the moon!

NO!

Contrary to ATS pop Culture view they weren't the only or sole ability gained that we needed to get there. But to deny the fact the Von Braun and his NAZI cohorts helped is denying real history.


People seriously need to read about Robert H. Goddard

Robert Hutchings Goddard (October 5, 1882 – August 10, 1945), U.S. professor of physics and scientist, was a pioneer of controlled, liquid-fueled rocketry. On March 16, 1926, he became the first person in the world to build and launch a liquid-fueled rocket. From 1930 to 1935, Goddard launched rockets that attained speeds of up to 885 km/h (550 mph). Though his work in the field was revolutionary, he was sometimes ridiculed for his theories concerning space flight.

Robert Goddard received little scientific support during his lifetime. Eventually, however, he became recognized — along with Tsiolkovsky and Oberth — as one of the fathers of modern rocketry.[1][2][3] He was the first not only to recognize the scientific potential of missiles and space travel but also to bring about the design and construction of the rockets needed to implement those ideas.[4]

[edit on 2-4-2010 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by makinho21
histo-buff to condemn my lack of knowledge with regards to "helicopters not being invented" at that time period.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
It wasn't Korean War era material but it flew.

Well…
Technically that is not a helicopter, though they were the first steps toward building helicopters. They are actually Autogyros, sometimes called Gyrocopters. The main difference is that on a helicopter the rotors change pitch to provide both lift and thrust, on an Autogyro the blades only provide lift and the thrust is provided by a second engine.

As to 1000ton tanks that are over 100 feet in length: [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2ab190a7dee9.jpg[/atsimg]
has an eye-blistering top speed of 1mph…

Mobile Launcher Platform
Each MLP weighs 8.23 million pounds unloaded and roughly 11 million pounds with an unfueled Shuttle aboard, measures 160 feet (49 m) by 135 feet (41 m), and is 25 feet (7.6 m) high. It is powered by a Crawler-Transporter, which measures 131 feet (40 m) by 114 feet (35 m), and is 20 feet (6.1 m) high. Each Crawler weighs about 6 million pounds (2.7 million kilograms) unloaded, has a maximum speed of about 1 mile (1.6 kilometers) per hour loaded, and has a leveling system designed to keep the top of the Space Shuttle vertical while negotiating the 5 percent grade leading to the top of the launch pad. Two 2,750-horsepower diesel engines power each Crawler.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow

Originally posted by SLAYER69
WWII Aircraft would have taken them out. The Rat was a GIANT but lets consider the Bismark that was even bigger and Aircraft did a lot of damage to it. I'll say this for the Germans though. They were and are excellent engineers. No Doubt about it.

Beat me to it Slayer.
I was going to say this "rat" tank concept was rather like a battleship on wheels.
Battleships sure had their day of glory, but air power made the battleship obsolete.

Just as todays missile technology will very soon make aircraft carriers obsolete.
When the US quickly loses two or three carries in this coming war, that will be the end of the large Nimitz sized aircraft carrier.

It would almost literally take a nuclear bomb to sink a super carrier...I don't think you've ever been near one if you think it we would lose them in war. In fact, I think anyone who has ever seen or been on one would laugh at you for making such a statement. Not to mention they don't travel alone...aboard a U.S. super carrier is probably the safest place on earth.

[edit on 2-4-2010 by yellowcard]

reply to post by defcon5


Star for you.

Thanks for posting the pic and links. After so many refutes over the years this argument gets so old.



[edit on 2-4-2010 by SLAYER69]

That's an awesome picture. This vehicle really reminds me of a Bigboy out of Supreme Commander from the way it looks.

I understand because of it's size and speed it might not have been too great in actual combat but I would really love if we had super weapons like this. The concept is so cool there isn't any reason we shouldn't do it.

Bigger might not be better. But it is awesome.

reply to post by defcon5


It would almost literally take a nuclear bomb to sink a super carrier...I don't think you've ever been near one if you think it we would lose them in war. In fact, I think anyone who has ever seen or been on one would laugh at you for making such a statement. Not to mention they don't travel alone...aboard a U.S. super carrier is probably the safest place on earth.

Maybe so, maybe not.
Yeah I've seen them up close, formitable indeed. but the USN hasn't really been in combat since 1945. the Falklands did not paint a pretty picture of survivability against missles. And that was 20 years ago.
I'm not dissing the USN, but it remains to be seen what a concentrated missle attack could do to a carrier group. No pushover for sure, but anything that floats, can ultimatly be sunk.