The Political Madness Escalates: Sean Hannity...

Originally posted by Lasheic
Cut out all the bridges to nowhere you want, but it's not going to make a damned bit of difference in the long run.

This is a perfect example of political double speak.

Bridges to no where that I want?

Sorry but on Earth, in reality, anywhere you could build a bridge geographically leads to SOMEWHERE.

"Bridge to no where" is a form of double-speak that marginalizes the belief we need better infrastructure, and defends the current status quo of spending all of our money on war and the corporations.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by parrothead0333
The left has chosen to call the Tea Partiers racists and terrorists and the comment about Tim McVeigh wannabees wasn't meant to say the Tea Partiers are literally domestic terrorists.

Some months ago, I spent some time in the "hidden" Tea Party Nation web site's discussion board. Primarily because I'm somewhat aligned with the core values that gave birth to the movement. I was banned for pointing out their inaccuracies and intolerance in a very civil and calm manner.

I can say with absolute certainty that I experienced, first-hand, a great deal of hateful rhetoric that did not assuage concerns that many of the "rank-and-file" faithful are racist and prone to considering violent reactions. While the rhetoric of the "left" is certainly exaggerating the issue for sensational effect, it's not without foundation.

Who are the "rank and file" of the Tea Party movement? I don't see that there is a "leader". Sarah Palin? Glenn Beck? Rush? I am still waiting to see who steps out of the shadows to LEAD this movement. Without a leader to unite then you will continue to see the different groups espouse different ideals of which some but not the majority will be extreme in their views. We live in difficult times and unfortunately there are many angry people in this country. I pray that we don't have a major attack of some kind from the extreme left or right but if it does happen its gonna come from the fringe not from the center left to the center right which encompasses most of us.

reply to post by muzzleflash

This is not socialism, it's the purpose of government. To build roads and maintain them.

I was trying to go for sarcasm, actually. I wasn't really suggesting that you were a socialists... just implying that your listed social works bolstering moves would be decried as socialist evil in today's political atmosphere.

But actually, it's not the government's job to build roads, dams, police/fire, etc. It's just that if they ignore those responsibilities, they do so at their own peril. Private industry could more than sufficiently handle most all public works projects. They just couldn't handle them well. I mean, there used to be a time when fire departments were privately owned... and fire fighters were known for committing arson from time to time to generate business.

Contemporarily, consider how badly the telecommunications industry has screwed nearly every state in the US in regards to providing broadband internet. Yet the US continually falls behind in terms of bandwidth and proliferation.

Neiman Watchdog: Why does broadband suck so much in America?

The answer is, the merger of the phone companies that control the phone networks decreased competition. Instead of deploying the high-speed fiber-optic lines they promised, they were content to collect profits, tinker with existing copper connections instead of rewiring, and roll out inferior DSL services. The FCC defines anything above 200 Kbps as broadband (1000 Kbps = 1 Mbps), allowing them to claim that Americans have broadband access. However, this definition is a politically-driven embarrassment for technologists, the equivalent of two tin-cans with string.

Yet—and here is the most troubling part—the phone companies got paid anyway. Through tax breaks and increased service fees, Verizon and the old Bells reaped an estimated $200 billion since the early 1990s to improve subscriber lines in the United States. And what have American consumers received? The most common DSL Service over the old copper networks tops out at 768 Kbps in most areas—a hundred times slower than routine connections in other countries. (There are faster, more expensive versions of DSL, but most have a top speed of 1-3 mbps in one direction, and it varies based on how far a person lives from a network hub.)

Fixing the potholes on the "Information Superhighway" is every bit as important and integral to commerce and industry as fixing the actual potholes in the nation's interstate highways. Yet private industry has botched and schemed away more money over the last 10 years in inferior service (both in profit and lost National GDP) than the banking bailouts even come close to.

Originally posted by Lasheic


I was trying to go for sarcasm, actually. I wasn't really suggesting that you were a socialists... just implying that your listed social works bolstering moves would be decried as socialist evil in today's political atmosphere.

Whoa, sorry man/lady I totally misunderstood you.

LOL I totally took everything you said out of context than. Whoops!

My bad Lasheic. I apologize, I feel really dumb now.

[edit on 2-4-2010 by muzzleflash]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Please...fellow ATSer's....take a look at this thread....especially this post by Someone336 concerning Dick Armey, Freedom Works, and the Tea Party movement:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is extremely important and it's getting NO attention. Dick Armey is a fraud. It's not slander...it has nothing to do with the right or the left....this has to do with the compromise of our country.

Please consider reading the information.

-----------

As for the OP....

Well....I think everyone knows how I feel about Sean Hannity....he tells lies for 4 hours each day...skews information....nothing he does surprises me anymore.

[edit on 2-4-2010 by David9176]

reply to post by muzzleflash


No biggie. I knew when I laid it down that sarcasm doesn't translate well over the net, so I figured that's probably what was going on. Another pothole on the information superhighway.

reply to post by Lasheic


According to the constitution: "Congress shall have power... To establish post offices and post roads"

Having roads is kind of important.. That was clear even in the 16th century


The idea that private corporations could build the roads, and presumably own them as private property, is really dumb. Sorry, but it is dumb. Dumb on a whole slew of different levels. Again, sorry to use the word dumb, but I call a spade a spade.


Perhaps I misread your post.

However, the idea that private business can solve public works problems, which seems to be what you said, if I'm reading it right, doesn't work, imo. Public works are non-profit ventures for the benefit of the citizens using government funding. The purpose is to create infrastructure at an overall cheap price to the many, while simultaneously spurring job growth by injection capital in the pockets of the work force. The work force builds the roads/bridges/whatever, which benefits everybody, and the workers use their capital to buy from businesses who then use it to hire more workers, etc etc.

Private businesses can't do this.. During a recession, they actually do the exact opposite -- cut jobs and cut spending, which makes the problem snowball on itself and become worse.

The government does the opposite -- increase spending, hire more people, to counteract this.

Again.. private business can not facilitate that role.

[edit on 2-4-2010 by Kaytagg]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Some months ago, I spent some time in the "hidden" Tea Party Nation web site's discussion board. Primarily because I'm somewhat aligned with the core values that gave birth to the movement. I was banned for pointing out their inaccuracies and intolerance in a very civil and calm manner.

I can say with absolute certainty that I experienced, first-hand, a great deal of hateful rhetoric that did not assuage concerns that many of the "rank-and-file" faithful are racist and prone to considering violent reactions. While the rhetoric of the "left" is certainly exaggerating the issue for sensational effect, it's not without foundation.

That explains it. When I read your OP for a moment there I was wondering if somebody was using your account. You had so obviously taken the comment out of context although you did use the word sarcasm which it clearly was.

This is a reaction to bad treatment by some in the movement.

I think you will find, as in any group in this country, that many points of view are represented in that group. It probably differs greatly from one part of the country to another also.

Are you not falling into the trap of blanket labeling all members of a group based on the actions of a few? You see the type of people who are troubling you are the very vocal minority that represents a tiny fraction of the group as a whole.

Most who identify with the Tea Party are normal working folks, who never have gotten involved in anything like this before. I'd bet most have never heard of any "hidden" discussion board. The fact it is hidden should tell you that you are not talking to the average person in the group.

To even call it one group is disingenuous is it not? Most people just show up because they don't like the direction things are going and don't know what to do. We see that our Government is out of control and ran by a bunch of crooks and confidence men, but what does a Carpenter, or a Janitor, or a Bus Driver who works two jobs to survive do to fight back in the few hours of free time they have? What does a person who can not get a day off or afford a ticket to DC or anywhere else do to make their voice heard? These are the Tea Partiers I'm meeting here.

The core of what is going on is not on any hidden board anywhere spewing hate. They are at work trying to pay for food, mortgage payments and educate their children. You have never met them or spoken with them on any such board.

There is not a doubt in my mind that bad people have latched on to this, but to blame the whole for the vocal minority of nut jobs? Is that right?

I will agree on the tone of Hannity's voice when he said that. Could that be because he knows many in the group are equally pissed at BOTH Parties? I know I am. How anyone could align with either Party boggles the mind.

[edit on 4/2/2010 by Blaine91555]

Things seem so out of control. Too out of control, as if it is a well planned tactic. I believe that it is. It seems that the last administration started the division, and the current one is continuing the division and they both blame the other. That is no way to progress. That is a regress. They know this and we are being played against each other on purpose. If the average person like myself can see this, don't tell me these Rhodes Scholars that are running things don't.

The MSM is continuously poking and prodding to infuriate the public. This comes from both "sides". There is no bi-partisan from either side of the legislative or media isle. You are either on one side or the other and this seems the way that they want it.

If there were really any concern about not wanting the country to be polarized, they would take the necessary steps to "persuade" the countrymen to work this out civilly. Not the case. They seem to want us to hate the other. To what end, I don't know, but the outlook is grim. A total meltdown seems to be on the horizon.

The only thing that changes a person is a SIGNIFICANT EMOTIONAL EVENT. That my friends is what I think we are headed for. Hold on, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Brace for impact.

This is interesting. While we need to keep the political pressure on, it is really looking like mainstream media may well be a weaker link. If a concerted effort, a large and serious one, were made to show Mainstream for what it is - the government loses its voice reducing its influence on what people think and believe.

That, I think is an observable trend over the past year as more and more mainstream news venues are being closed (newspapers, magazines, some radio, a bit more television). They make their revenues based upon the viewership - a vital weakness.

I wouldn't advocate going after them in the same fashion (at all) that they have ridiculed people asking questions. Just needs solid points and counterpoints on their clearest absurdities.

Press the reality - what is not on the news.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Wow, this is hugely embarrassing.

The owner of ATS, not being able to detect the sarcasm from Hannity, and to take it out of context for his own benefit.

That's.....that's not cool.

Originally posted by havok

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I'm stunned. Is there any hope of recovering from this political psychosis that has an apparent death-grip on the nation?

SkepticOverlord....this is what one of the biggest conspiracies is all about.

I think they (TPTB) want us to be divided. They want the public to fight.

United we stand, divided we fall.

Recovering would involve the entire nation getting along.
Too many people watch TV, and do not research to know any better.
What I mean is, too many people watch American Idol, etc, or worse...
And don't get off their collective butts to find out about the corruption.

This will destroy our country. Simple. The dumbing down of America.

[edit on 2-4-2010 by havok]

This is true and the the Hannity's and his ilk fuel the divide. However it does go deeper then that. We have a bunch of socialist/marxist in this country who think it is ok for the mob to vote to take yours and my stuff against our will. As long as that is around there will always be a divide. The problem is to many folks believe republicans are not of the same ilk when they take our stuff just as quick if not quicker. So the left/right paradigm simply fans the flames.

The becks and hannity's make an elite living pitting American against each other as evidenced by this sad video. But the real problem is the idea in the minds of to many that people can vote to take your stuff against your will or force you to guy a product and the false construct that one side is left and the other right.

“Is the president purposefully using propaganda and hyperbole to garner the American public for support?” - Sean Hannity thinkexist.com...

That's sarcasm, or is it irony?

Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by hangedman13
But you can't blame Obama for one thing -- he took single payer option off the table, so that we can have our health coverage administered by private for-profit insurance companies. That was one thing the republicans wanted, and they got it.

And that's also the one thing that made health care reform worthless and just another wealth grab for corporations.

We don't need a third party, hell there already are 3 popular 3rd parties independent, green, and libertarian. What we need is.....

1)Direct election no electoral college or representative
2) The ability to vote for any canidate in any election regardless of party affiliation and have our vote counted.
3) Total elimination of lobbying
4)Anyone can run in any election without 20000 odd proven signatures, even if there's a 100 canidates on the ballot.
5)A cap on campaign spending each canidate gets to spend up to a certain amount.

I'm not for any party but you socalled patriots talking about a revitalized Republican party are deluded. Nixon created HMOs which started the health care mess, as well as the trade agreements with China. Regan broke the unions, allowed import steel to destroy our main industry, and presided over the worst unemployment and financial trouble since the depression. HW started Gulf one, drastically reduced import tariffs destroying the balance of trade paving the way for NAFTA. Bush two stole an election started an illgal war, 911, warrantless wire tapping, the first bailout, etc.

Unless you take it back to Abraham Lincoln you will not find a Republican with the peoples interests at heart. And some in the south still despise him.

On the left the last real one was JFK and you saw what happened to BOTH OF THEM!!!

No Republican or Democrat is going to fix this period. Its a two headed monster and until were dealing with a whole diffrent beast its status quo for the elitists!

Hmm.

Just something to point out.

Sarcasm isn't the issue here. Context isn't the issue either.

The issue is the subconcious one, where a host on a TV debate describes a set of people as "Timothy McVeigh wannabees".

Tones of voice and context aside, thats a hell of a powerfully suggestive statement to close a broadcast on. Its almost subliminal, and its one hell of a soundbyte.

See..however he meant it, its a hugely damaging thing to say, regardless of political affiliation, because it went out on TV, and TV is, as has often been said, opium for the masses.

reply to post by Kaytagg


You're right, I slipped up on that one. While it doesn't explicitly state that it's the government's responsibility to build and maintain a highway system, it is listed as being within power. Still, roads have been around since the Roman Empire. Many of the public works initiatives our governments (both local and federal) operate are not mentioned in the constitution. Some of those technologies and infrastructure problems weren't apparent until the Industrial Revolution pushed dense urbanization, or the Information Revolution which is disseminating commerce and trade over a global network. A corporation can exist with no physical holdings, only in cyberspace; and it's employees consisting of a collaborative group who live in entirely different nations, but are coming together through the internet.

(Look at ATS and the revenue it generates on nearly entirely user-generated content from contributors across the globe. You may not be a moderator, but you are more important than a moderator. If the users don't generate content, there is little to no draw, and the site fails.) There is a growing movement to get Internet Access declared a fundamental human right, and some governments (Finland being the first) have declared Broadband Internet a legal human right.

Though I'm glad you mentioned that article, since it has quite a few other powers vested to the government which I often hear people here complaining about being unconstitutional.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

At any rate, I do agree that privatization of the nation's highway system is not a wise decision to make... but it's starting to happen.

“At last, we can stop dreaming and start digging,” Gov. Mitch Daniels said last week. The Republican has hailed the transaction as “the Louisiana Purchase of our time for Indiana.” Privately operated toll roads are slowly catching on in the United States after decades of popularity in Europe and, more recently, South America, Australia and other nations. The roads are attractive to investors because they offer long-term, stable revenue from tolls. Last year, Chicago became the first U.S. government entity to lease an existing tollway to private investors. The city turned over the 7.8-mile Chicago Skyway to the same Spanish-Australian consortium for 99 years in exchange for $1.83 billion. By this fall, about 30 of the 5,244 miles of U.S. toll roads will be run by private operators — the Chicago Skyway, the Dulles Greenway in northern Virginia and the South Bay Expressway, expected to open this fall near San Diego, said Patrick Jones, executive director of the International Bridge, Tunnel and Turnpike Association.

MSNBC: Highway privatization deal in the works for Cash Strapped Indiana.

That's from 2006, and aside from higher tolls and some complaints of neglect, it's still too early to tell just how good or bad the idea will turn out to be in the long run. The U.S.PIRG (Public Interest Research Group) suggests that the privatization deal shortchanged Hoosiers about seven million dollars with a term of about 75 year on the lease which includes a non-compete clause which prevents future upgrading to four lanes where needed for the next 55 years.

Source

"But I was just being sarcastic," is a lame excuse by lots of people when caught in an embarrassing (or calculated) statement.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
There is not a doubt in my mind that bad people have latched on to this, but to blame the whole for the vocal minority of nut jobs? Is that right?

I think it is. In so far as, it's the responsibility of people aligned to a worthy goal/cause (such as the Tea Party) to ensure that fringe "nut jobs" don't derail the effort... which is exactly what is happening.

Early in the "game," some months ago, I considered that a "Tea Party" forum would be a worthwhile addition to ATS. The core values of reform and holding representatives to their oaths of office to represent their constituents is commendable. But not long after that (not dissimilar to what happened to "9/11 Truth"), things went sideways, and the forum would have been a disaster. I still think a similarly focused "Government Reform" forum would be a valuable addition, but I fear for the nature of the conversations that would result given the state of things now.

By the way, the person who banned me and removed my posts was Judson Phillips, the organizer of several national "Tea Party" events. Now, to be clear, I don't believe he represents the ideals of many people who have become attracted to the "Tea Party," but he's a fine example of someone who has hijacked the "movement" and distorted it beyond recognition.


Some years ago (not that long really), I once appreciated a fair portion of ideas expressed by Hannity and even Beck (but I can rarely say the same of their "liberal" counterparts). But over the past 18 months, it seems as though the script writer for this political game has been switched from someone moderately talented, to a collection of people who can't agree on how inflammatory is too inflammatory... and they're testing the "waters" through a series of escalating bombasts on all sides. This is but one example.

Originally posted by neformore
The issue is the subconcious one, where a host on a TV debate describes a set of people as "Timothy McVeigh wannabees".

What interests me is how he may think about Tim McVeign = what he thinks about the tea party...did he accidently let slip out that he believes the tea party are just a bunch of nutcase criminals, or does he see/hope the tea party becomes violent mobs killing anyone they see liberal...

I guess a direct question under a polygraph may clear up exactly what he let slip...tea party nuts, or tea party needs to start blowing up stuff...which one is it Hannity...which side are you arguing for.

Alan Colmes= Loony Liberal
Sean Hannity= Crazy Conservatives.

To me there simply the same type of people sticking to there guns regardless of the facts or a matter of reality. Its called political Correctness, and it doesn't matter what side of the isle your on, your Political Correctness isn't correct.

I listen to this entire video you posted SkepticOverlord, and let me tell you what I hear:

I hear Michael Moore Complaining how bad Bush is and how our Party the democrats is the best party around and how its for Freedom and such and for the people of the great Nation.

I wish some people would put down there political correctness for a change and realize what is wrong in what they believe, and what is right.

Not much to say on this one aside from the fact that political partisanship to divide and conquer the country is no doubt the biggest actual conspiracy that I can think of.

This is a bad thing and it is working... More and more our citizens go at each others throats over what they mistake as issues....

We need to learn to see past the BS that we are being blinded with... If we cannot do that, then our country truly will go down the toilet...

We are one people! One country! We are not divided into political groups! We are one people!

United we stand, divided we fall!

Do not become divided!

For that division will be the death of our country.