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Originally posted by royalred
reply to post by octotom
Well, that's all fine, but it doesn't matter either way to me because I don't think something can be taken away that wasn't there in the first place.
I don't think the Bible is THE word of God and I don't think any religion has a monopoly on morality.
The problem with the "born again" philosophy, besides the fact that it is just a myth, is that it is promoted not as a spiritual change in someone's life that will create happiness, but as a way of avoiding Hell for eternity after you die. It's not about bringing people and ideas together. It's about isolation. You're either with us or against us. This creates, ironically, a very non-Christ like, intolerant view of others that do not believe in their ideology. And then there are all of the prophecies in the book of Revelation. A large portion of our population believes that Jesus is coming back in their lifetime and the "non-believers" will be "left behind."
It shouldn't be underestimated how much this belief in the "second coming" affects believers, and indirectly non-believers, lives. When you think there is a good chance you are not going to die, it has a REALLY big affect on your life goals, political beliefs, environmental appreciation and sugar consumption (no alcohol or drugs of course).
How bout we all just forget about being born again, waiting for the messiah or being rewarded with 72 virgins and start being more Christ like. Tolerant, compassionate and enlightened.
Originally posted by ashanu90
reply to post by Zeus2573
the OP stated it wasnt made to offend everyone why dont you actually read completely through something before you open your gaping maw
that is all
Originally posted by impaired
I found this on the net, and it expressed everything that *I* couldn't express in words.
I want to see some real Christians debunk these, instead of quibbling over irrelevant issues:
1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of YOUR god.
Yes to the first part, No to the second part God gets to deal with them.
2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
If we die and just lay there, we decompose and go back to the dirt, from dirt we are, to dirt we return.
3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in a Trinity god.
I don't believe in a trinity god.
4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehova slaughtered all of the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the elimination of ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUPS in 'Joshua' - including women, children, and animals.
I don't question the sovereign of the universe, those tactics ended with Jesus Christ coming to the earth.
5: You laugh at Hindu beliefs that defy humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
That's about right.
6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.
Actually I agree that the earth is billions of years old. The creative "days" start after Genesis 1:1
7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend eternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet you consider your religion the most tolerant and loving.
No, Hell is a myth created by false Christians
8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some person rolling around on the floor 'speaking in tongues' may be all the evidence you need.
Nope
9: You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be the evidence that prayer works, and you think that the remaining 99.99 % failure was simply the will of God.
???
10: You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history, but still call yourself a "Christian".
Highly unlikely, I have extensively studied the bible for over 30 years.
jmm.aaa.net.au...
[edit on 31/3/10 by masqua]
Originally posted by Frontkjemper
I don't go to church, however I do consider myself a Christian.
I find it funny, that believing in a God is laughable, but saying we're created from nothing isn't.
When we boil it down to the basic parts, people don't "have a problem with religion in general", they LOATHE Christians. No, not "religion" as in Jews, Buddhists, Islam AND Christian, but just Christians. Every time I see someone "bash religion", I see them bashing Christianity. Were are the 'numerous' threads bashing Islam? Judaism? Buddhism? There is none except Islam when it's in regard to extremism.
No, you don't hate religion, you just hate Christians. For whatever reason. These are personal attacks against Christians, not religions but Christians, some sort of anger issues. It can be clearly seen by the smart ass remarks like calling Christian beliefs like "fairy tales" etc.
Also, saying that "Christians killed many too" doesn't really apply when comparing Islam and Christianity.
Islam STILL commits these atrocities whereas Christianity has grown. Unlike Islam with a "convert or die" philosophy, Christians has a "convert or we'll bug you relentlessly" philosophy.
But seriously, quit hiding behind the lame veil that you "hate religion" because it's quite clear that you _JUST_ hate Christians. Ya'll probably should seek some sort of help too. This much hate isn't good for anyone.
All Democrats are insane, but not one of them knows it; none but the Republicans and Mugwumps know it. All the Republicans are insane, but only the Democrats and Mugwumps can perceive it.
Originally posted by impaired
I found this on the net, and it expressed everything that *I* couldn't express in words.
I want to see some real Christians debunk these, instead of quibbling over irrelevant issues:
1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of YOUR god.
2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in a Trinity god.
4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehova slaughtered all of the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the elimination of ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUPS in 'Joshua' - including women, children, and animals.
5: You laugh at Hindu beliefs that defy humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.
7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend eternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet you consider your religion the most tolerant and loving.
8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some person rolling around on the floor 'speaking in tongues' may be all the evidence you need.
9: You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be the evidence that prayer works, and you think that the remaining 99.99 % failure was simply the will of God.
10: You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history, but still call yourself a "Christian".
jmm.aaa.net.au...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that some of these do indeed come across as "harsh" (especially 10), and I'm not crazy about the adjectives the author used, but I wanted to preserve the original text as much as possible, for I believe it all makes A LOT of sense.
So, lets have a civilized discussion about these 10 things, because whenever *I* bring some of them up to people in threads, they mostly get ignore.
Now it's time to get to the bottom of it.
And just for the record, I am not an Atheist. I am an Agnostic. And also for the record - I am against ALL organized religion - not just Christianity.
And what actually prompted me to post this was due to my experience at the mall 2 weeks ago. I will get into that briefly.
Long story short, my friend kind of set me up to talk to the Christians at their kiosk at the mall (2 weeks ago). Before I knew what was going on or who I was about to talk to, I was literally face to face with the woman behind the kiosk. My friend said to the woman, "Here's the person you need to talk to". (My friend is atheist, btw).
So, she started with the whole sphiel. She walked away from me after about five minutes. At that point, a young man in his early 20's started on me. He asked, "What is your problem with the Bible?". I told him what I thought. Once I got to, "How people burn in hell for not accepting JC as your lord and savior", the main guy (40-something year old male named Paul) interrupted him and took over.
I started with my beliefs, and he just kept going back to the bible as reference. I asked him to please stop using the Bible as a reference, but he just kept going at it. He said, "It's God's word, and that's the bottom line".
He did not want to hear anything else.
Then what really pissed me off was when I said, "I was Born-Again for almost 2 years". He said, "You could NOT have been Born Again, because if you were, you would have never turned away".
Me being too nice, I let it slide, but what I really wanted to say was, "I just evolved past religion".
Paul would not let me leave. I mean, I could have walked away, but I am not a jerk to just walk away from someone in mid-sentence.
I got away after 45 minutes of Paul, and over an hour of them all combined.
So yeah, back to the thread. I will not tolerate personal attacks, SEMANTICS, and quibbling over irrelevant issues.
This thread is about the 10 points I have posted above. Simple as that. Keep it relevant.
[edit on 3/31/2010 by impaired]
Included 'ex' tags and a link
[edit on 31/3/10 by masqua]
Originally posted by Frontkjemper
I find it funny, that believing in a God is laughable, but saying we're created from nothing isn't.
Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by impaired
anyone could put together a crap list like this
1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, and feel outraged when someone tells you there is a god
2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when christians say that people were created by god, but you have no problem with the darwin saying you evolved from an yet to be discovered human/ape common ancestor.
3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in theories that have not been prooven.
4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to religion, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how Stalin slaughtered millions in russia and when Pol Pot had entire killing fields.
5: You laugh at religious beliefs, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that life just happened.
6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the in religius texts, prooving that you are determined to devote large chunks of time to something you do not even believe in.
7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - are stupid.
8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have a prooven track record of just being a long history of corrected mistakes, you know they are correct right now.
9: You spend more time talking about jesus and the bible than most christians.
10: You actually know a lot less than many people do about religion in general because you think that religion= juedochristian religions only.
Originally posted by impaired
1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of YOUR god.
2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in a Trinity god.
4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehova slaughtered all of the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the elimination of ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUPS in 'Joshua' - including women, children, and animals.
5: You laugh at Hindu beliefs that defy humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.
7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend eternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet you consider your religion the most tolerant and loving.
8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some person rolling around on the floor 'speaking in tongues' may be all the evidence you need.
9: You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be the evidence that prayer works, and you think that the remaining 99.99 % failure was simply the will of God.
10: You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history, but still call yourself a "Christian".
7.) Not all Christians believe in a burning bottomless pit type of Hell. There is surprisingly little support for the bottomless pit Hell in the Bible and it only appears in a few verses. The one that is quoted most often is from the Book of Revelations and many Christian scholars say that this book is the most difficult to interpret because so much of it is allegorical. None of the Christian faiths that I know of believe that Hell is reserved exclusively for the non-believer, and in fact the deepest depths of Hell are reserved for those who were believers and then became deniers. I am not saying that they are right or wrong, but the beliefs were not correctly stated in the question.
You ask do i want to be with God, I am part of God. Walk on your Own, that IS the true test. Your Jesus taught this, he taught to go on the road less traveled, not the paved golden path which you and many are on. He taught that the kingdom of heaven is within. That statement right there proves that your Jesus also believes we all are part of the universe we are ONE. No one, not even him is more important than the next living being. Do not put such petty labels on the universe as Jesus and Satan, good or bad. Why do you people continue to have to seek outside sources to feel validity? You are missing the teachings. It takes good and evil to create a balance. We are all part of the universe.
Everything IS what it IS. If you say that something is not worthy of living or should be abolished to the hell you created, then you are telling your own god his creation is worthless. That is quite ironic. Evil needs to be in place just as good. It is a learning environment here, its time for you to get out of preschool and take full responsibility for yourselves. Stop thinking that it takes forgiveness from an outside entity. The forgiveness is of thy self. Last but not least, you should probably consider not judging, because that is within your Bible and that will condemn you to a sin in your own head. Wake up and be free.
If by "created from nothing" you mean the big bang theory, which is backed by evidence, then no, I wouldn't say it's laughable at all.
Originally posted by Frontkjemper
I don't go to church, however I do consider myself a Christian.
I find it funny, that believing in a God is laughable, but saying we're created from nothing isn't.