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Ten Signs You Are An Unquestioning Christian

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posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by royalred
reply to post by octotom
 


Well, that's all fine, but it doesn't matter either way to me because I don't think something can be taken away that wasn't there in the first place.

I don't think the Bible is THE word of God and I don't think any religion has a monopoly on morality.

The problem with the "born again" philosophy, besides the fact that it is just a myth, is that it is promoted not as a spiritual change in someone's life that will create happiness, but as a way of avoiding Hell for eternity after you die. It's not about bringing people and ideas together. It's about isolation. You're either with us or against us. This creates, ironically, a very non-Christ like, intolerant view of others that do not believe in their ideology. And then there are all of the prophecies in the book of Revelation. A large portion of our population believes that Jesus is coming back in their lifetime and the "non-believers" will be "left behind."

It shouldn't be underestimated how much this belief in the "second coming" affects believers, and indirectly non-believers, lives. When you think there is a good chance you are not going to die, it has a REALLY big affect on your life goals, political beliefs, environmental appreciation and sugar consumption (no alcohol or drugs of course).

How bout we all just forget about being born again, waiting for the messiah or being rewarded with 72 virgins and start being more Christ like. Tolerant, compassionate and enlightened.



Awesome, Thank you very well said




posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 07:49 PM
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Hello, I have been a long time reader of this website but haven't joined until now. I feel like everyone else in that i have to give my 2 cents
I do go off topic a little bit but stick with me.

First off, I am against organized religion the the way that it is currently run. I am also an atheist. That being said, I do believe that there are watchers or a counsel so to speak wherever it is the soul goes when you die. Not a god or gods, perhaps a better word is overseers. Highly "evolved" spiritual "beings" that guide and "run" the spiritual realm.

Now, for arguments sake, if God does exist, and we were created in his image KNOWING that he himself cannot effect free will, then he knew people would not believe in him and therefore cannot blame us for it. But then again, if he did exist, why would he not banish free will so that was not an issue to begin with?

When it is said that religion was created as a form of mind control and power ect.....I prefer to say that it "evolved" into that. I say that because technically, religion, or at least the very basis of it, began a LOOOONG time ago when the cavemen (or more correctly, early ancestors) were afraid of lightning and thunder and and anything else that freaked them out. From no understanding of what was really going on from the prospective of a primitive mind and took off from there with the sacrificing and chanting ect.

As far as the ten signs go, for what I know and have seen of "bible thumpers" a lot of this is probably true. Being christian doesn't make you a bible thumper however. For the ones that are not most if not all of these probably don't apply to them. But I do understand the core point of what the op was trying to get at.

On a side note, my Aunt COMPLETELY quit talking to me quite recently over this very topic, which is a whole other story.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by ashanu90
reply to post by Zeus2573
 


the OP stated it wasnt made to offend everyone why dont you actually read completely through something before you open your gaping maw
that is all


I did read all the way through it. How can you create a thread like this and not intend to offend anyone? This thread is wrong on so many levels.
I'm going to run my mouth as much as I want. It doesn't seem to bother you much.

Grow up, quit acting so juvenile.

~ Zeus



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 08:08 PM
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I don't go to church, however I do consider myself a Christian.

I find it funny, that believing in a God is laughable, but saying we're created from nothing isn't.

When we boil it down to the basic parts, people don't "have a problem with religion in general", they LOATHE Christians. No, not "religion" as in Jews, Buddhists, Islam AND Christian, but just Christians. Every time I see someone "bash religion", I see them bashing Christianity. Were are the 'numerous' threads bashing Islam? Judaism? Buddhism? There is none except Islam when it's in regard to extremism.

No, you don't hate religion, you just hate Christians. For whatever reason. These are personal attacks against Christians, not religions but Christians, some sort of anger issues. It can be clearly seen by the smart ass remarks like calling Christian beliefs like "fairy tales" etc.

Also, saying that "Christians killed many too" doesn't really apply when comparing Islam and Christianity.

Islam STILL commits these atrocities whereas Christianity has grown. Unlike Islam with a "convert or die" philosophy, Christians has a "convert or we'll bug you relentlessly" philosophy.


But seriously, quit hiding behind the lame veil that you "hate religion" because it's quite clear that you _JUST_ hate Christians. Ya'll probably should seek some sort of help too. This much hate isn't good for anyone.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by impaired
I found this on the net, and it expressed everything that *I* couldn't express in words.

I want to see some real Christians debunk these, instead of quibbling over irrelevant issues:


1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of YOUR god.

Yes to the first part, No to the second part God gets to deal with them.

2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

If we die and just lay there, we decompose and go back to the dirt, from dirt we are, to dirt we return.

3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in a Trinity god.

I don't believe in a trinity god.

4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehova slaughtered all of the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the elimination of ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUPS in 'Joshua' - including women, children, and animals.

I don't question the sovereign of the universe, those tactics ended with Jesus Christ coming to the earth.

5: You laugh at Hindu beliefs that defy humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

That's about right.

6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

Actually I agree that the earth is billions of years old. The creative "days" start after Genesis 1:1

7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend eternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet you consider your religion the most tolerant and loving.

No, Hell is a myth created by false Christians

8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some person rolling around on the floor 'speaking in tongues' may be all the evidence you need.

Nope

9: You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be the evidence that prayer works, and you think that the remaining 99.99 % failure was simply the will of God.

???

10: You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history, but still call yourself a "Christian".

Highly unlikely, I have extensively studied the bible for over 30 years.



jmm.aaa.net.au...




[edit on 31/3/10 by masqua]


Edit: not sure why some colors or working and some aren't???

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Blue_Jay33]



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by Frontkjemper
I don't go to church, however I do consider myself a Christian.

I find it funny, that believing in a God is laughable, but saying we're created from nothing isn't.

When we boil it down to the basic parts, people don't "have a problem with religion in general", they LOATHE Christians. No, not "religion" as in Jews, Buddhists, Islam AND Christian, but just Christians. Every time I see someone "bash religion", I see them bashing Christianity. Were are the 'numerous' threads bashing Islam? Judaism? Buddhism? There is none except Islam when it's in regard to extremism.

No, you don't hate religion, you just hate Christians. For whatever reason. These are personal attacks against Christians, not religions but Christians, some sort of anger issues. It can be clearly seen by the smart ass remarks like calling Christian beliefs like "fairy tales" etc.

Also, saying that "Christians killed many too" doesn't really apply when comparing Islam and Christianity.

Islam STILL commits these atrocities whereas Christianity has grown. Unlike Islam with a "convert or die" philosophy, Christians has a "convert or we'll bug you relentlessly" philosophy.


But seriously, quit hiding behind the lame veil that you "hate religion" because it's quite clear that you _JUST_ hate Christians. Ya'll probably should seek some sort of help too. This much hate isn't good for anyone.



Uh, hello? I have seen numerous threads bashing Islam in a "kill em all" way. By the way, do you know who said, "Kill them all, God will recognize his own," (also sometimes said as 'sort em out') ? THE POPE.

And Christianity no longer kills anyone, while the "islamofascists" do, huh? So when George "idiot" Bush said, "God told me to smite Saddam" and then sent his brainwashed henchmen in to KILL so far, over ONE MILLION Iraqis, that doesn't count? Or the fact they are still killing em by the hundreds as we speak? Or that these "Islamofascists" keep pulling all these "terrorist" attacks that seem to gain them nothing but good excuses for the "Christofascists" to bomb them? Boy, they must be dumb. Oh yeah, it's their Allah who is telling them to do it, right?

And didn't dummy Shrub also say, "My god is stronger than your god," as a twisted rationale for the upcoming murder of millions of women and children?



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:09 PM
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Athiests vs. Christians is like comparing Liberals vs. Conservatives, or Communists vs. Capitalists, or 9/11 Truthers vs. Official Deniers, or James Randi followers vs. any all possible conspiracy theories PERIOD, or insert other binary based head to head phiosophies.

It's funny tho how athiests commit such over arching logical fallacies in their staunch exploits to come off as logical. For instance, the Bible has flaws... therefore there is no 'god'. i.e. 'We've disproven the Bible therefore we've proven that god doesn't exist.'

Anyone see the logical fallacy there? Do I really need to clarify. Hints: Inductive Reasoning & False Dilemma.

It is interesting to note how quick Christians are to disband all agnostic types as heretics and lump them as outcasts along with the athiests, and how quick athiests are to lump them in with themselves to Appeal to Popularity.

Tell the typical Christian zealot that you don't interpret the Bible (or parts of it) the same as they do, and you're disbanded as a heathen.

Once I posted elsewhere in a similar type of thread: my opening sentence here. Wow if I didn't get a scathing PM from one of the athiest debaters telling me how I'm really a athiest (that basically all agnostics are athiests)!

In similar vein, if you're a writer, for instance, and you fail to somehow write everything in the context of religious etc, religious tend to criticize or ignore it. On the flip side, athiests will turn off to any hugeseriously important expose and move on and forget about it if anything religious is mentioned anywhere therein. One might declare I'm commiting Hasty Generalization fallacy, except I know this from experience.

Many years ago I'd often mix biblical concepts in with a lot of my technology works, but eventually I grew logically agnostic seeing the flaws in both sides. When I did do that sort of thing, however, I'd get daily PM's from hardliner athiests trying to debate me on everything under the son, so much that I had to eventually ignore them to be able to get any new research done. I eventually noticed less and less comments and such from people who had always had stuff to say in said regards. Conversely, I no longer get constant comments decrying everything I'm talking about as religious fanatacism.

In short, I've personally experienced equal intolerance and zealotry out of both camps.

Theres a lot of arrogance coming out of each camp. I don't claim to know whats behind it all, or what isn't.

Mark Twain said of the binary political party system we have here in the US:

All Democrats are insane, but not one of them knows it; none but the Republicans and Mugwumps know it. All the Republicans are insane, but only the Democrats and Mugwumps can perceive it.


[edit on 31-3-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by impaired
I found this on the net, and it expressed everything that *I* couldn't express in words.

I want to see some real Christians debunk these, instead of quibbling over irrelevant issues:


1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of YOUR god.

2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in a Trinity god.

4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehova slaughtered all of the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the elimination of ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUPS in 'Joshua' - including women, children, and animals.

5: You laugh at Hindu beliefs that defy humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend eternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet you consider your religion the most tolerant and loving.

8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some person rolling around on the floor 'speaking in tongues' may be all the evidence you need.

9: You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be the evidence that prayer works, and you think that the remaining 99.99 % failure was simply the will of God.

10: You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history, but still call yourself a "Christian".

jmm.aaa.net.au...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that some of these do indeed come across as "harsh" (especially 10), and I'm not crazy about the adjectives the author used, but I wanted to preserve the original text as much as possible, for I believe it all makes A LOT of sense.

So, lets have a civilized discussion about these 10 things, because whenever *I* bring some of them up to people in threads, they mostly get ignore.

Now it's time to get to the bottom of it.

And just for the record, I am not an Atheist. I am an Agnostic. And also for the record - I am against ALL organized religion - not just Christianity.

And what actually prompted me to post this was due to my experience at the mall 2 weeks ago. I will get into that briefly.

Long story short, my friend kind of set me up to talk to the Christians at their kiosk at the mall (2 weeks ago). Before I knew what was going on or who I was about to talk to, I was literally face to face with the woman behind the kiosk. My friend said to the woman, "Here's the person you need to talk to". (My friend is atheist, btw).

So, she started with the whole sphiel. She walked away from me after about five minutes. At that point, a young man in his early 20's started on me. He asked, "What is your problem with the Bible?". I told him what I thought. Once I got to, "How people burn in hell for not accepting JC as your lord and savior", the main guy (40-something year old male named Paul) interrupted him and took over.

I started with my beliefs, and he just kept going back to the bible as reference. I asked him to please stop using the Bible as a reference, but he just kept going at it. He said, "It's God's word, and that's the bottom line".

He did not want to hear anything else.

Then what really pissed me off was when I said, "I was Born-Again for almost 2 years". He said, "You could NOT have been Born Again, because if you were, you would have never turned away".

Me being too nice, I let it slide, but what I really wanted to say was, "I just evolved past religion".

Paul would not let me leave. I mean, I could have walked away, but I am not a jerk to just walk away from someone in mid-sentence.

I got away after 45 minutes of Paul, and over an hour of them all combined.

So yeah, back to the thread. I will not tolerate personal attacks, SEMANTICS, and quibbling over irrelevant issues.

This thread is about the 10 points I have posted above. Simple as that. Keep it relevant.

[edit on 3/31/2010 by impaired]

 


Included 'ex' tags and a link

[edit on 31/3/10 by masqua]


I am sure that many of you (maybe even most) would not consider me a "real christian", etc, etc.

I must however point out several problems with your 10 questions.

First of all the 10 questions shows the same intolerance for the views of others that the author claims "Christians" exhibit.

Going a bit deeper, there are flaws in the questions though that exhibit an ignorance of Christianity as it currently exists in the US. I will go through these one at a time.

1.) Not all Christians deny the existance of other gods. In fact the Bible, both new and old Testaments admits that other gods exist. The Ten Commandments however forbids Jews and Christians from paying homage to them. In fact there are several verses that clearly state that Satan thinks of himself as a god. Also, the Apostle Paul used the Greeks veneration of "the unnamed god" as a proof that they believed in Jehovah. The denial that other gods exist is a relatively new concept that seems to have grown out of the Enlightenment.

2.) Not all Christians deny the possibility that Evolution is a fact. In fact, I find a lot more supposedly "open minded people" who think that the theory of evolution disproves the existance of God. Darwin did not think that, in fact Darwin was a Christian until he died. He simply wanted to know how things were done and he clearly stated that. As for being made from dirt, are you saying that we are not made from dirt? We now know, through the science of Chemistry that all things are made up of the primary elements. Those elements are found in dirt. In fact, I find the statement of "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust" to be one of the most profound and uncontestable phrases in the Bible.

3.) Not all Christians accept the Trinity. In fact the concept of the Trinity comes from the Council of Nicea. There are several Protestant faiths that reject all things Catholic and do not accept the Trinity. Some of these think of God as being without form, and without bounds, and therefore the Trinity has no meaning. Others take the concept of Jesus as the Son of God as literal and therefore God and Jesus are separate individuals.

4.) I think that the answer to this one is the proximity to the event. It is one thing to read about the slaughter of the innocents, or the plagues of the Exodus, as events that happened thousands of years ago. It is quite another to switch on the television and watch as 3000 people are murdered and someone telling you that their god ordered it. It is true that there are some who are Christians who have committed some horrendous acts as well. I don't excuse it. Let me mention here as well that I did not know Moses, Aaron, or Joshua,(or Mohammed) and if there is a God and they were his prophets then that is a much different thing as well.

5.) I don't laugh at other people's beliefs.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Frontkjemper


I find it funny, that believing in a God is laughable, but saying we're created from nothing isn't.




This is a typical argument that Christians make. It's a very slippery slope. At no point did the OP say that we were created from nothing. I believe he was making the point that the Bible says we were created from dirt.

Here's the thing man. Someone can not believe in religion and still believe in "God." When you let go of the dogma, you can believe or not believe there is a God and feel no guilt. Questioning with out guilt is a great thing.

Personally, I don't claim any religion but I think it makes no sense to think everything just randomly appeared. I believe God is Everything, God is Consciousness, Consciousness is Everything. We are each micro consciousness within a macro consciousness (God). We are not separate from God, we are part of God. We are micro gods within God. No religion can put Macro God in a box and say he/she is this or that. All we can see of God is through our limited human experience. It sure is a beautiful one though!

But I could be wrong...



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by CaptChaos
 


Amen and hallelujah, Cap'n, if you'll excuse the pun! I hope I live to see the day when the Bushwhacker is formally recognized as first and foremost and effectively SOLELY a RELIGIOUS fanatic. All those who claim Iraq and Afghanistan were started because of oil and corporate/economic power (greed) only are naive. Bush is/was about 100,000 times as powerful and dangerous a RELIGIOUS terrorist than Osama bin Laden ever dreamed (that's past tense, since he's been dead for awhile) of being.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by impaired
 


anyone could put together a crap list like this

1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, and feel outraged when someone tells you there is a god

2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when christians say that people were created by god, but you have no problem with the darwin saying you evolved from an yet to be discovered human/ape common ancestor.

3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in theories that have not been prooven.

4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to religion, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how Stalin slaughtered millions in russia and when Pol Pot had entire killing fields.

5: You laugh at religious beliefs, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that life just happened.

6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the in religius texts, prooving that you are determined to devote large chunks of time to something you do not even believe in.

7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - are stupid.

8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have a prooven track record of just being a long history of corrected mistakes, you know they are correct right now.

9: You spend more time talking about jesus and the bible than most christians.

10: You actually know a lot less than many people do about religion in general because you think that religion= juedochristian religions only.

Yep!
You got that right!



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by Frontkjemper
 


my favorite was, after reading a website written by an anthropology student, he referred to a statuette found in an akkadian gravesite, which depicted a goat caught in a thicket. he referenced the ram in the thicket statue that was found later from the same time period as the biblical abraham.

then (get ready for this!) he said: christians may have been in the area and got the idea for the ram in the thicket, from the goat in the thicket people.


i loved it. christians were apparently in akkad, 2000 BC.

no one sent me the memo!


[edit on 31-3-2010 by undo]



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 10:50 PM
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continued from my earlier post

6.) I don't spend my time (or my life) looking for loopholes in the age of the Earth, or the Sun, or the Universe. Why would I? The Book of Genesis is one book of the Bible, and the Creation story is only a couple of chapters. I guess that you made the mistake of thinking that all Christians take every word of the Bible literally. Not all do.

I would like to point out though that choosing this particular nit to pick is not too smart because science still does not have a definitive answer to the questions of age regarding the Universe, the Sun, or the Earth. They have some good theories but none of them are certain to within a billion years.

7.) Not all Christians believe in a burning bottomless pit type of Hell. There is surprisingly little support for the bottomless pit Hell in the Bible and it only appears in a few verses. The one that is quoted most often is from the Book of Revelations and many Christian scholars say that this book is the most difficult to interpret because so much of it is allegorical. None of the Christian faiths that I know of believe that Hell is reserved exclusively for the non-believer, and in fact the deepest depths of Hell are reserved for those who were believers and then became deniers. I am not saying that they are right or wrong, but the beliefs were not correctly stated in the question.

8.) Not all Christian faiths believe in the physical displays described are evidence of the "Gift of Tongues". This is really a strawman argument of the worst kind. The author may as well have mentioned snake handling.

9.) This is also a strawman argument. Where does the 0.01% statistic come from? Is it from a study? I doubt it and it is most likely made up to bolster the author's argument. This is not a valid debate technique. Now if there was a study performed and an actual statistic quoted, that might be worth debating. The author seems prepared to accept the reality of aliens who visited the Earth in the past but is unwilling to accept the idea of a God who answers prayers.

10.) This is probably the worst strawman argument made in the 10 questions. The author does not know me (or anyone else reading the list) and does not know how much I know. So, no statement of comparison can be drawn between my knowledge and some unnamed athiest. Are there athiests who know more than I do about the Bible? Sure, I am sure of it. I am also certain that I have much more knowledge on the average person. So what?

These questions make many classical errors of critical thinking by making, false claims, false comparison, false analogies, strawman arguments, appeals to ignorance, and inuendo and invectives. The author of the questions has tried to mask these tactics by naming the list of questions, "Are you a real non-thinking Christian"? In this way the author can deflect anyone who does not fit the stereotype in the questionaire. This is also a falacy and not a legitimate debating tactic.

Not all Christians believe the same things, not all of them accept the assumptions made in the questionaire. There are over 2400 Christian religions in the US, all of them with slightly different beliefs.

My days of crusading are long over, I do not try to change other people's beliefs, but I do not tolerate them trying to change mine either. I also don't tolerate them trying to tar me with an anti-Christian, anti-Science, or anti-Intellectual brush. I find that most of those who try to do that don't know their subject well enough to make good arguments.



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by impaired
1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of YOUR god.

2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in a Trinity god.

4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehova slaughtered all of the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the elimination of ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUPS in 'Joshua' - including women, children, and animals.

5: You laugh at Hindu beliefs that defy humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend eternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet you consider your religion the most tolerant and loving.

8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some person rolling around on the floor 'speaking in tongues' may be all the evidence you need.

9: You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be the evidence that prayer works, and you think that the remaining 99.99 % failure was simply the will of God.

10: You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history, but still call yourself a "Christian".


Well, thank you for at least keeping it respectful in your own sections of the writing. The points themselves aren't quite as rude as I was expecting to be honest.Here is my response to the 10 points that you have brought forth.

1) Somebody has to be right. Most religions, except those that believe in every god as being a correct understanding (even if they contradict), would be outraged if you claimed their god was false. This is what got so many of the early Christians executed and stoned by the communities. If you believe anything at all, you better had believe it is true, or why else believe it at all?

2) Regardless of what we were created from, God made us unique. By creating us in His image, we have a self worth and value far beyond that of mere animals. Evolving means that we are no different than any other animal and deserve nothing better than the treatment we give them.

3) Well, many of us don't laugh at polytheists, but do feel sorry for them. The only "religious" folk I laugh at are Scientologists, because its just TOO weird, but anyway...

Nobody fully understands the concept of the Trinity. Some of us are even sceptical of the concept when looking at the origin of the belief in light of what the scriptures actually say. Not saying God is not a Triune God, but that not all of us are even sure about it.

4) This has always been the core of an atheist's (or Muslim's) argument against the loving God that Christians proclaim to follow. I know it was a generalization, and that the list is for those "Unquestioning Christians," but here are the reasons that I have concluded...
a) God is a God of Justice and these people were wicked in a way that we cannot understand and so punishment had to be brought to them in a way that we can't understand. We aren't seeing the full picture.
b) These foreign nations worshiped false gods and to let them intermingle with the Jews would cause all sorts of idol worship and such. As it turns out, when the Israelites did allow foreigners to live among them, that is exactly what happened. God was giving the Israelites the best scenario they could have for remaining faithful to Him by eliminating the worship of false gods, yet they still failed.

Not Jehova... Yahweh.

5) Well... the Greek part actually sounds right on only I would substitute fallen angels with the "gods" part. The Bible speaks of Nephilim, men of renown, the people of legends that were born of human mothers and angelic fathers. A fallen angel could definitely display itself as a god to any being of lesser power than itself. How many cultures worship animals that they believe to be better than themselves in one way or another?

6) The official "scientific" answers keep changing, making it very hard to trust them. Looking at the claims of science today makes it hard to trust anything they say to be honest (global Warming?). These "tribesmen" are held with higher regard in our eyes because we don't see ourselves as taking their word for it, but instead that what they recorded was truly inspired by God. Men, regardless of the time period, are fallible. God is not.

7) Tolerant and loving because we should be willing to serve people. Not all fulfill this role. The main law we have is to love. Not all of us believe in an eternal suffering but rather a temporary suffering that completely destroys the soul, making you cease to exist. Not sure where I stand on that one yet. I also except Most of the Christian denominations, but not all, even though I would consider some of their teachings to be in error.

8) Generally speaking, I cannot stand those people. Many of them have made God a source of ridicule among non-believers. This should not be so! How dare I do something to tarnish the Name of God.

9) Two things. We are men of little faith (Third world countries see miracles not often found in the modernized world). Our prayers are often answered in ways we didn't expect, but they are answered.

10) Correction, many atheists know things that they read off the internet that arent always true and are generally unknown believers. If you compared people on total knowledge of the Bible, the Christian would usually win. There are of course exceptions.

My response. God bless.

Mykahel



[edit on 31-3-2010 by Mykahel]



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 11:13 PM
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Wow, so basically what we have here is some snarky atheist who decided to start a thread with no point at all except to make fun of Christians...

...aaaand the mods let it run 12 pages. Three cheers for ATS!



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by lunarminer
 





7.) Not all Christians believe in a burning bottomless pit type of Hell. There is surprisingly little support for the bottomless pit Hell in the Bible and it only appears in a few verses. The one that is quoted most often is from the Book of Revelations and many Christian scholars say that this book is the most difficult to interpret because so much of it is allegorical. None of the Christian faiths that I know of believe that Hell is reserved exclusively for the non-believer, and in fact the deepest depths of Hell are reserved for those who were believers and then became deniers. I am not saying that they are right or wrong, but the beliefs were not correctly stated in the question.


correcto-mundo! i believe the bottomless pit is the abyss, which is the underworld, which is the abzu, which is the gate of the gods. (that's the translation! )



posted on Mar, 31 2010 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by Wolfenz
 


It traces back to David, yes, and David tracks all the way to Adam as can be seen here

ldolphin.org...

And rather claiming he is an "annunkai" is just a CT. still nice try though



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by yesIAM
 





You ask do i want to be with God, I am part of God. Walk on your Own, that IS the true test. Your Jesus taught this, he taught to go on the road less traveled, not the paved golden path which you and many are on. He taught that the kingdom of heaven is within. That statement right there proves that your Jesus also believes we all are part of the universe we are ONE. No one, not even him is more important than the next living being. Do not put such petty labels on the universe as Jesus and Satan, good or bad. Why do you people continue to have to seek outside sources to feel validity? You are missing the teachings. It takes good and evil to create a balance. We are all part of the universe.

Everything IS what it IS. If you say that something is not worthy of living or should be abolished to the hell you created, then you are telling your own god his creation is worthless. That is quite ironic. Evil needs to be in place just as good. It is a learning environment here, its time for you to get out of preschool and take full responsibility for yourselves. Stop thinking that it takes forgiveness from an outside entity. The forgiveness is of thy self. Last but not least, you should probably consider not judging, because that is within your Bible and that will condemn you to a sin in your own head. Wake up and be free.


I couldn't agree more.
One of the best posts I've seen in a long time.


I think everyone is born with this knowledge inside of them, like common sense. Because if you let everything go, you can feel it. You can see it when you look at nature. But the warped version of what God is and the power organized religion has over people can only create fear. What kind of love is born of fear? The bible directly tells one to fear God....

We are all one, we are different but the same. We are a replica of a larger pattern... I believe one should just learn to be in nature, learn to love the Earth, our home. Once you get a taste of that feeling that comes over you when you are so grateful to be alive on this planet. It is so beautiful, you realize that it is for you to enjoy and to take care of, and love. When you feel that serenity wash over you...you kind of get what it's all about. And it's not really that complicated. The only difficult part, is coming back into society and trying to hold on to that feeling.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:16 AM
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Alot of Christians decided to get cut by the OP without reading what he said about his ideal posting conditions. They then proceeded to hurl torrents of unfactual jargon into his thread. What he wanted was real christians with a true faith in god and / or the Bible to comment on something he found on the website that entails some anti-christian limmericks.

What i expected while reading was insight in any way / shape / form. Sadly i recieved that in the form of ignorant or severly brainwashed christians going on an epic nerd rage. It was not worth the 10+ pages.

To put it bluntly, go get some insight from Cliffe Kneckle before you ever post here again. You are an insult to enlightened ( both spiritual AND intellectual enlightenment A.K.A. True enlightenment ) Christians worldwide

As for my take on the OP, these sets of instances may indeed be very true. Every narcissistic and narrow minded sentence would hit home to many christians because it is obvious how many flaws the bible has. I am not posting this to you as a true christian, or anything to the calibre of what you wanted... But you can be assured my knowledge on this religion and many others is extensive



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by Frontkjemper
I don't go to church, however I do consider myself a Christian.

I find it funny, that believing in a God is laughable, but saying we're created from nothing isn't.
If by "created from nothing" you mean the big bang theory, which is backed by evidence, then no, I wouldn't say it's laughable at all.




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