Supreme Court May Ultimately Decide Fate of Obamacare

reply to post by kozmo

First of all... Car Insurance. Car insurance is mandated by the individual states, not the federal government.

And the healthcare mandate will be mandated by the individual states as well. The HCB mandates the STATES to enforce a mandate...so the federal government isn't mandating the individual to do anything. This is why States are suing and not individuals.

I don't think they will win...and if they do it will just become a voluntary enforcement instead of a mandated enforcement for the states...that is until the federal government declares that states that don't enforce the mandate will get their medicare funding stopped.

All you people getting your hopes up that the republicans are going to "save" you from this bill are delusional. They have a movement going on now to "repeal the bill"...they are going to campaign on this for November...but they know they can't repeal anything until Obama is out of office. And despite what republicans say about Obama being one term...I am still confident he will easily win a second term.

I decide that as a young healthy american I dont need to waste my hard earned income on healthcare insurance. My question is how is it that the federal gov. thinks it has the power under the interstate commerce clause to fine me for not participating in interstate commerce>?

[edit on 3/31/2010 by Phedreus]

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by kozmo

 

First of all... Car Insurance. Car insurance is mandated by the individual states, not the federal government.

And the healthcare mandate will be mandated by the individual states as well. The HCB mandates the STATES to enforce a mandate...so the federal government isn't mandating the individual to do anything. This is why States are suing and not individuals.

I don't think they will win...and if they do it will just become a voluntary enforcement instead of a mandated enforcement for the states...that is until the federal government declares that states that don't enforce the mandate will get their medicare funding stopped.

All you people getting your hopes up that the republicans are going to "save" you from this bill are delusional. They have a movement going on now to "repeal the bill"...they are going to campaign on this for November...but they know they can't repeal anything until Obama is out of office. And despite what republicans say about Obama being one term...I am still confident he will easily win a second term.

EPIC FAIL!!! "The healthcare madndate will be mandated by the individual states as well"??? Oh, so that must be why 13 states are fighting this, right? Let me be perfectly clear here - the Federal Government DOES NOT have the authority to mandate ANYONE to purchase ANYTHING - regardless the trickery and chicanery that they employ. Why is it that you fail to employ logic on the matter? I fear it is because of your personal desire as opposed to your ability to think clearly!

Secondly, I DARE Obama to cut Medicare funding to the states - I simply DARE him to even suggest it! And as far as a second term... Not a prayer! Not even the Titanic sank as fast as his approval ratings!

I expected this all along. On both counts I expect a 5-4 vote, though which way I can't say. Kennedy will of course be the swing vote.

reply to post by kozmo

Let me be perfectly clear here - the Federal Government DOES NOT have the authority to mandate ANYONE to purchase ANYTHING

And if you had better reading comprehension...you would realize I said that the federal government isn't going to mandate ANYONE to purchase ANYTHING. They are going to mandate the STATES to mandate their residents to purchase healthcare...or pay a fine.

And about Obama's approval ratings

Obama Approval

He is still in the positive for the RCP average. It will just go up from here. You always expect a dip in the first year...it just always happens (unless you are Bush with 9/11...but that wasn't about him). Some polls even have him at 50-53%...that is enough to win an election and it is still so far out.

You can live in your fantasy world all you want...but from what I am seeing right now...he will be re-elected easily...especially looking at the potential opponents

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


The Constitution applies UNIVERSALLY! No government in the US; Federal, state, county or local, possess the jurisdiction to force anyone to purchas anything. Even in the case of auto insurance, I can elect to NOT own a car and ride a bike, take a bus or a taxi to work and there is NO mandate to purchase anything and no penalty for failure to do so.

Again, you apply logic as it pertains to your desires, not as it exists in the real world!

The fact,

The HCR will be challenged in the supreme court,

The outcome? we will have to wait and see.

Prediction,

Democrats will lose majority in congress and Obama will be a one time president.

reply to post by kozmo

The Constitution applies UNIVERSALLY! No government in the US; Federal, state, county or local, possess the jurisdiction to force anyone to purchas anything. Even in the case of auto insurance, I can elect to NOT own a car and ride a bike, take a bus or a taxi to work and there is NO mandate to purchase anything and no penalty for failure to do so.

And you don't have to purchase anything...but then you are required to pay a fine.

If you are morally against paying money to a private company...fine...but by you choosing not to insure yourself...you are putting the burden of your healthcare on the shoulders of others (me included). So you have to contribute...you can't grift the system...and you will contribute by paying a fine.

So you do have a choice...you don't have to purchase anything at all if you don't want to.

Originally posted by dragonridr
3rd they will inform the government they dont have the right to stop banks from providing student loans.

Nonsense !

You realize federal student loans administered by the banks are govt subsidized and guaranteed ? It amounts to a giveaway of billions in profits each year. They have no risk, it's all upside. The banks have zero right to skim off the top. What a corrupt, evil, system.

I'm so happy they got kicked to the curb. For the life of me, I haven't heard a single good argument for why they shouldn't cut the banks out. The talking heads I hear complaining on TV sound like their message is piped in straight from a bank's board room.

Originally posted by Schaden

Originally posted by dragonridr
3rd they will inform the government they dont have the right to stop banks from providing student loans.

Nonsense !

You realize federal student loans administered by the banks are govt subsidized and guaranteed ? It amounts to a giveaway of billions in profits each year. They have no risk, it's all upside. The banks have zero right to skim off the top. What a corrupt, evil, system.

I'm so happy they got kicked to the curb. For the life of me, I haven't heard a single good argument for why they shouldn't cut the banks out. The talking heads I hear complaining on TV sound like their message is piped in straight from a bank's board room.

Yeah, the banksters have had their grubby little hands on this one way too long and I actually agree with Schaden here. It proves my point exactly that there is a difference between greed and free market and the way that the current student loan system is set up is just straight up greed.

I think the health care bill will be deemed unconstitutional because of the commerce clause. The commerce clause also says that the government is forbidden to regulate commerce by tariffs and this bill basically does that with the price setting that it requires the Insurance companies to follow. That is the problematic language of the bill is forcing someone to purchase something from a private corporation that the government sets the price on for EVERY state. You can't do that and that goes against the idea of a true free market. You can't penalize business monetarily through legislation because you disagree with their practices if they are not conducting criminal activity. Though, I will admit that a lot of these insurance companies commit criminal activity in their negligence to their patients. Regardless, as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I don't see this bill holding constitutional waters. It also adds too much power to the IRS without the proper oversight. Not good.

the supreme court wont do anything.

that systems of checks and balances does not exist

legislative- bunch of crooks
executive- the highest crook in the country
judical- bunch of gutless wonders

so no the only way to kill the healthcare bill is whats already been said

2010- hope a republican/independent house is elected and defund the bill essentially killing it
2012 republican victories in the house and senate and white house and repeal it.

given the liberal machine its hard to say what will really happen.

anyway you look at it were screwed.




[edit on 31-3-2010 by neo96]

Neither Democrats or Republicans are helping our country anymore. We need an average Joe in office, someone who knows what working and having trouble paying bills is actually like. Someone that that hopefully could get our country going again.