Myths, origins, Tolkien and Sitchin

This thread involves myths, origins, and a metaphorical journey with the works of Sitchin and Tolkien

“Unlike Elves and Men, created by the supreme God Ilúvatar, Dwarves were created by the Vala (angelic being) Aulë.”

en.wikipedia.org...(Middle-earth)


Aule, creator of the dwarves , the Anunaki, supposed creator of men, and
The dwarves , the miners of the fantasy written by Tolkien...

The humans are the miners in Sitchins’ interpretation
We delve like dwarves in middle earth in this representation

Humans have always had a penchant for digging,
We are so close to the chimpanzee
That most of us want to forget or at least try not to dwell
On how human these simians are; they can be trained well

So this is the juxtaposition
of Tolkien
and Sitchin

Loosely based on Zecharia and the Silmarillion


Now what happens is that Ilùvatar, god of Aule, from Lord of the Rings,
Was already upset with Aule, but it's ok, it would seem

They eventually found their place, those miners, in the scheme.
But why would Aule’s creator offer a hand , when the miners were not part of a plan? It’s easy to understand.
I would even go , so far as to propose,
that the Creators of the Anunaki would rather not like to know
or think about what their Aule-like creations, the metaphorical Anunaki, have done,
When they created the human
Or the miner I should say
Have you stayed with me all this way?

Let me clear it up for you in case you’ve missed anything
Ilùvatar, the creator from Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings
Did not want anything to do with the miners created by Aule
The only reason they lived is because Aule was begging

And Ilùvatar said something along the lines of “Alright, I will let them live, but first they must sleep”
And so the miners, metaphorical you and me, all began to dream…

And we awoke once as a conscious race , all the miners at once it would seem
So here we are still , digging

Next we will be digging out the moon, and then it will be mars
The Anunakis’ creators will then be like “Well, they might be miners, but they ARE children of the stars…”










[edit on 23-3-2010 by dragonsmusic]

reply to post by dragonsmusic


Or perhaps Sitchen just liked Tolkien's writing, and near-plagiarized it to provide a basic story for his own fantasy novels. Take The Hobbit, throw in the phrases "Babylonian texts" and "Science doesn't want you to know!" and you've got a Sitchen book

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by dragonsmusic

 

Or perhaps Sitchen just liked Tolkien's writing, and near-plagiarized it to provide a basic story for his own fantasy novels. Take The Hobbit, throw in the phrases "Babylonian texts" and "Science doesn't want you to know!" and you've got a Sitchen book

Interesting what you say walkingfox, and it makes me think...
There is a great line from the guys called juice news media about the people at NASA. The line is "these babylonians worship Isis"

It's so damn funny , but it really does seem like it.



So many things are inextricably linked.

I don't think Sitchin took any inspiration from Tolkein, it was more a popular movement that was rampant back in the 1970's. Pyramid power, UFO's/ET's, Bigfoot, etc., etc. Sitchin and Von Daniken both came out with "Ancient Astronaut" theories around the same time, 1976. Shows like "In Search Of..." also hyped the possible "ET visitation" being responsible for ancient civilizations and their constructs. It was such a popular phenomenon even Speilberg got in on it with Close Encounters released in 1977.

Sitchin, Von Daniken, UFOs, Bigfoot sightings, sharpening your razor blade under a pyramid model, were all the rage back then.

Alright, it is almost obvious that you either didn't read the Silmarillion or didn't understand it.

Let me clear it up for you in case you’ve missed anything
Ilùvatar, the creator from Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings
Did not want anything to do with the miners created by Aule
The only reason they lived is because Aule was begging

First of all, the "miners" were not in the original design (the "music of the Ainur"), they were created by Aule the Smith because of his great need for pupils (he was, after all, the son of his father and like him he wanted to create beings and teach them what he knew). They had no wills of their own, initially, they were merely "puppets" of Aule's will.

Iluvatar got "wind" of it as soon as they were created and asked Aule why he did this since it was not in the Music, he chastised him reminding him that all he could do was created puppets and not life with a will of its own since he too was "created". Aule offered his creation to Iluvatar "as it was" and also offered to destroy it, at which point the Dwarves shrunk to avoid his hammer blow. In an instant moment Iluvatar had not only accepted Aule's offer of his creation but had granted it a will of its own, he only insisted they would not come into the world first. That's why they were put to sleep until the Elves were awaken.

I cannot speak for Sitchin's "universe", what it encompasses, how "real' he thinks it is and who is what in that universe. Tolkien's universe is fictional, he said it clearly enough himself (in one of his Letters, cannot find its number right now, he states that one should be very careful when entering the area, the sacred area of myth/fairy tale). If by the comparison you drew you wanted to point out that Sitchin's work is also fictional I cannot argue. If you wanted to promote Tolkien's work to factual, I will not argue as Tolkien himself has cleared that out - and nobody is more "eligible" to speak about Tolkien's work than Tolkien himself!!

You are free to believe that you were created by some Annunaki on a slow week day, I chose to believe I was not. Until either of us has solid proof we cannot resolve the issue, we can however debate about the two pieces of work mentioned above. One is clearly fictional, as stated by its creator, the other is debatable. If they are so closely paralleled, are you saying they share the same "status"?

Originally posted by Maegnas
Alright, it is almost obvious that you either didn't read the Silmarillion or didn't understand it.

Let me clear it up for you in case you’ve missed anything
Ilùvatar, the creator from Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings
Did not want anything to do with the miners created by Aule
The only reason they lived is because Aule was begging

First of all, the "miners" were not in the original design (the "music of the Ainur"), they were created by Aule the Smith because of his great need for pupils (he was, after all, the son of his father and like him he wanted to create beings and teach them what he knew). They had no wills of their own, initially, they were merely "puppets" of Aule's will.

Iluvatar got "wind" of it as soon as they were created and asked Aule why he did this since it was not in the Music, he chastised him reminding him that all he could do was created puppets and not life with a will of its own since he too was "created". Aule offered his creation to Iluvatar "as it was" and also offered to destroy it, at which point the Dwarves shrunk to avoid his hammer blow. In an instant moment Iluvatar had not only accepted Aule's offer of his creation but had granted it a will of its own, he only insisted they would not come into the world first. That's why they were put to sleep until the Elves were awaken.

I cannot speak for Sitchin's "universe", what it encompasses, how "real' he thinks it is and who is what in that universe. Tolkien's universe is fictional, he said it clearly enough himself (in one of his Letters, cannot find its number right now, he states that one should be very careful when entering the area, the sacred area of myth/fairy tale). If by the comparison you drew you wanted to point out that Sitchin's work is also fictional I cannot argue. If you wanted to promote Tolkien's work to factual, I will not argue as Tolkien himself has cleared that out - and nobody is more "eligible" to speak about Tolkien's work than Tolkien himself!!

You are free to believe that you were created by some Annunaki on a slow week day, I chose to believe I was not. Until either of us has solid proof we cannot resolve the issue, we can however debate about the two pieces of work mentioned above. One is clearly fictional, as stated by its creator, the other is debatable. If they are so closely paralleled, are you saying they share the same "status"?

You actually realize my point . It's bizarre you weren't trying to do that. I was clearing up/summarizing some points in the thread. The metaphor was in line with the story. The metaphorical miners had life ultimately.
I must point out that it is obvious you didn't read this thread.
I wonder why is it you think I should answer you when you are not nice .
But there, I have

DO NOT mix up Tolkien and Sitchin!!! That just provides ammunition for those who want to dismiss Sitchin's work.

Seeing as how Tolkien based the LOTR mythos mainly off of Wagner's Ring Cycle, which in turn was based off of the Germanic saga Nibelungenlied, I highly doubt that Tolkien was channeling Sitchin, the Sumerians, or anyone else.

Originally posted by warpcrafter
DO NOT mix up Tolkien and Sitchin!!! That just provides ammunition for those who want to dismiss Sitchin's work.

It is almost you are now implying that Sitchin work is credible?

Now that would be an offense to Tolkien's creative mind.....

[edit on 24-3-2010 by yiersan]

Originally posted by warpcrafter
DO NOT mix up Tolkien and Sitchin!!! That just provides ammunition for those who want to dismiss Sitchin's work.

I like that verse, I like your words.
I was just making parallels with these works

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
Seeing as how Tolkien based the LOTR mythos mainly off of Wagner's Ring Cycle, which in turn was based off of the Germanic saga Nibelungenlied, I highly doubt that Tolkien was channeling Sitchin, the Sumerians, or anyone else.

I will look into the information you have presented me here, thanks. But I wasn't postulating that he was channeling.

Originally posted by yiersan

Originally posted by warpcrafter
DO NOT mix up Tolkien and Sitchin!!! That just provides ammunition for those who want to dismiss Sitchin's work.

It is almost you are now implying that Sitchin work is credible?

Now that would be an offense to Tolkien's creative mind.....

[edit on 24-3-2010 by yiersan]

The two works both have unusual themes which tap into myth as well as the metaphors of the human collective.

dragonsmusic, please forgive my above normal harsh tone. I do have some pet peeves and one of them is attributing too much (basically anything but I do have my "tolerant" days) to aliens of any sort.

yiersan, thanks for that warning. No firmer argument can be made for the "credibility" of Sitchin's work, to be compared to one of the greatest fictional epics ever written!

I do have one minor problem with the parallel, all intends and purposes for such a parallel aside.

If i am not wrong, Sitchin published his first book in 1976, right? The mere notion that Tolkien could channel anything related to Sitchin is ridiculous (I know this sounds harsh but it is not, it IS ridiculous). Tolkien died in 1973, sorry if this burst any bubbles but he was such a "bad boy" and died 3 years before Sitchin started floating around trying to find where Nibiru is

If you are implying that Sitchin channeled anything Tolkien related, then my initial post stands firm, Tolkien was writing FICTION and he said so, boldly and more than once!

Just pointing out to anyone who might be reading that I , the Op, was not in fact implying any sort of channeling whatsoever. I was merely drawing lines as I have written above.
Peace